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Why so many "TNLN"s


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[VENT]

From the Geocaching FAQ

quote:
What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

 

1. Take something from the cache

 

2. Leave something in the cache

 

3. Write about it in the logbook

 


 

It seems lately that every other cache log reads "TNLN"

 

WHY?

 

  • Are these people too lazy?

Are these people too cheap?

Is trading beneath their dignity?

Are they poor sports?

 

This is GEOCACHING. It has rules. If you don't like the rules, why not start your own sport?

 

[/VENT]

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I often TNLN for one of 3 reasons:

1. Nothing but junk in the cache

2. Just didn't bring anything with me to trade.

3. Cache in need of maintanence.

 

I don't cache to "get stuff" I do it to relax. For me, it's about seeing a new area, or a new way of seeing a familiar area, and "the hunt".

 

Nothing to see here, move along.

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Yup, what they said. If it is a short hike from the car to the cache I'll stick a weegie in my pocket to leave behind. Other than keychains to stash in my Key's to the Cache'l and TB's I rarely see anything I want to have.

Of course the exception was a few weeks ago when there was a nice Multipurpose tool in a cache, but I didn't have anything of fair value to trade, so I TN/LN/SL. icon_wink.gif

Oh, and they are guidelines, not rules!

 

These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes;

Nothing remains quite the same.

Through all of the islands and all of the highlands,

If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane

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We always leave a little rubber frog or similar item, but rarely take anything. I know a lot of local cachers who leave more than they take, if they take anything at all. The main problem with trades per se is that I hardly ever see anything I want, except the occasional rubber lizard.

 

When visiting another state recently, I went to find a cache that I knew had started off logbook-only, but was large enough to hold small items. There had been a dozen visits; I assumed that over the weeks, a couple of people had left something or other, and I was planning to trade for darn near anything so I could take home a little souvenir. Nope, the container was still bare of everything but logbook, pencil and explanatory sheet.

 

Now, I know nobody who found it was obliged to leave something for nothing, yet I still somehow felt that the previous dozen finders had been a little rude. If you enjoyed the hunt, you can leave a trinket worth a quarter. But that makes me question my own motivations -- it's all about the hunt, right, not the swag? And anyway, I've given up long ago on finding neat things in caches. Still, I wanted to see what this new area's cachers left -- their cards, their signature items, whatever, I was curious how they differed from my typical local swag. The empty container was disappointing.

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I think that you're taking these rules a little too literally. I understand them this way: 'Should you decided to trade, here's how it works: you can take something but you must leave something in exchange'. I personally find the trading aspect unnecessary since I am only interested in the hunt. I usually leave a wooden 'G' token which is my signature item and very rarely trade stuff. To me, the experience of the location and the hunt together are what GC'ing is all about. The stuff in the caches is just icing on the cake mostly to keep things interesting for kids.

 

My 2 cents.

 

82972_1100.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by Pharmadude:

Wimseyguy:

quote:
Oh, and they are guidelines, not rules!


 

Oh? Maybe you want to read the FAQ again (conveniently quoted at the top of this page)


 

Relax man.

 

If the rules stated that you needed to leave a 100 dollar bill at each cache would you? Regardless of what the page says, they are guidlines and the proof of that is nobody is banned from the sport because they TNLN

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

__________________________

Caching without a clue....

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quote:
Originally posted by Pharmadude:

Wimseyguy:

quote:
Oh, and they are guidelines, not rules!


 

Oh? Maybe you want to read the FAQ again (conveniently quoted at the top of this page)


 

How about the suggestion to cache in and trash out? If I abided by that rule most of the caches I find I would have to empty into a trash bag and drop it in the first garbage can I came to.

 

Most caches I have placed started with content value of 20.00 or more. 2 weeks afterwards I wouldn't give you a plugged nickle for the entire contents.

 

Most of us hunt caches for the personal satisfaction of finding them and being able to log the find. I fail to see to reasoning of trading junk for junk or even worse to leave a nice item that is traded for a rubber ball.

 

If you want to treasure hunt...maybe you should start a new sport.

 

El Diablo

 

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

http://www.geo-hikingstick.com

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There is nothing wrong with TNLN. The cache is in the same condition as when they found it. Sure they could leave something if they wanted to try and improve it but it is fine to leave a cache the same way you found it if you like to play the game that way. What is wrong though is when people leave junk in a cache. Sometimes I see some trades and wish the person did a TNLN.

 

I personally always leave something behind but lately I find myself never taking anything. Just recently though I had to do a TNLN because I lost a new travel bug I made on the way to a 30 mile round trip cache.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=7638

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The guidelines tend to be scattered around geocaching.com for example Guide to Finding a Cache says

quote:
Step 4 – The Find

 

Huzzah! You found the cache! Congratulations! Now what?

 

Usually you take an item and leave an item, and enter your name and experience you had into the log book. Some people prefer to just enter their name into the log book. It’s an accomplishment enough to locate the cache.


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From the Guide to Finding Your First Cache

Geocache Guide

 

quote:
Step 4 – The Find

 

Huzzah! You found the cache! Congratulations! Now what?

 

Usually you take an item and leave an item, and enter your name and experience you had into the log book. Some people prefer to just enter their name into the log book. It’s an accomplishment enough to locate the cache.


 

You play the game your way and I'll play it mine. The 'rules' of the game make it fun for all of us, even when we choose to trade or not to trade.

 

supermoe

 

"Patriotism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime." -Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.

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to Allenlacy - great minds think alike! while I was looking for that snippet you posted it! Thanks!

 

supermoe

 

"Patriotism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime." -Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.

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UMC wrote:

quote:
If the rules stated that you needed to leave a 100 dollar bill at each cache would you? Regardless of what the page says, they are guidlines and the proof of that is nobody is banned from the sport because they TNLN

Wait a minute UMC. You mean I wasn't supposed to celebrate my 100th find back in April at this cache by doing that? icon_redface.gif All of the experienced cachers told me it was the local custom when I neared the landmark find. icon_wink.gificon_confused.gif

 

And Pharmadude, the Complaint Dept. is right here. Seven pages strong and counting. No need to start a

quote:
[VENT]
whole new thread. icon_razz.gif

 

These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes;

Nothing remains quite the same.

Through all of the islands and all of the highlands,

If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane

 

[This message was edited by wimseyguy on July 27, 2003 at 02:26 PM.]

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Oh my...

 

In almost 200 physical cache finds (I like the new totals) I have only taken something 6 times and left something almost 180 times.

 

[sARCASM]

I am a bad GeoCacher!!!!

 

Thanks for pointing that out. I never would have known.

[/sARCASM]

I like my code to be neat.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Nobody can be so amusingly arrogant as a young man who has just discovered an old idea and thinks it is his own.

Sydney J. Harris

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Sometimes I'll completely forget to bring something with me when I go Geocaching. So, I don't leave or take anything. If I do bring something with me and there's nothing but junk in the cache, then I usually put something in and take nothing. Or if the cache is pretty empty I'll also do that.

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quote:
Originally posted by Pharmadude:

 

It seems lately that every other cache log reads "TNLN"

 

WHY?

 

Are these people too lazy?

Are these people too cheap?

Is trading beneath their dignity?

Are they poor sports?


 

Are they saving their geobucks to put good things into good caches that they hide for others?

 

Are they awaiting a chance to trade something unique for a special item?

 

Are they caching so often that it makes it hard to trade every time?

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quote:
Originally posted by Pharmadude:

Oh? Maybe you want to read the FAQ again (conveniently quoted at the top of this page)


You left out a line:

quote:
Where you place a cache is up to you.

So what's all this garbage about approvals and permission and private property and national parks? It's right there in the rules!

 

Flat_MiGeo_B88.gif

Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack

Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams

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Let me get this straight. Your enjoyment of the geocaching experience is diminished if I TNLN? So, does that mean it is also diminished if I never visit the cache that you go to? The result is the same.

 

Anyway, the most common reason I TNLN is because I get excited about the hunt and take off from the car and forget to grab something ouot of my 'bag of goodies' that I keep in the car.

 

Alos, like Harrald, a lot of times I leave something and take nothing. Why should I take nothing if there is nothing there worth taking?

 

You might consider not reading the logs. Then you will never realize that someone has been there without trading...

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quote:
Originally posted by bnolan:

I don't want to trade them for that gum wrapper or soggy bandaid.


You didn't like the soggy bandaid I left? icon_frown.gificon_wink.gif

 

On the TNLN issue...

 

I don't see what the big deal is with TNLN. Sometimes I trade, more often I TNLS (take nothing, leave someting) and most often I TNLN. If the only affect I have on a cache is one less page/line in the logbook, what difference does it make to your caching experience? Maybe you're waiting for those fables Ferrari keys, assuming that everybody's trading up. I have news for you...... icon_rolleyes.gif

 

--

Pehmva!

 

Random quote:

sigimage.php

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One of the very great many things about this sport is that every one can play it any way they want. If thay choose to trade then so be it, if they choose to take nothing, or maybe want to just leave something, every one can have that choice the great game of geoching can be played in many different ways. If we are bound to take something and leave something. Then why not just go the locale second hand store and trade there. There are so many other reasons to play this game, such as find new places, and the view from some of these caches cannot be described in words, YOU HAVE to go there,, so who would care about trading useless junk when all you need to do is just get to the location and take in the outstanding view. "Cache on"

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after you have gone to too many trashed caches, seen your own caches trashed, and have traded all your "really cool items" for trash and are left with nothing but trash all of the sudden it just doesn't seem worth it anymore...

 

texasgeocaching_sm.gif

The Department of Redundancy Department

A geocache a day keeps the debtors away (cause your never home to take the call...)

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How many mini-carabiners and survival whistles does one person need? I certainly do not need a mctoy or a souvenier shotglass from Joe's Bar and Grill.

 

And more often than not the cache is already stuffed so full of junk that another item will not fit.

 

===========================================================

"The time has come" the Walrus said "to speak of many things; of shoes and ships and sealing wax, of cabbages and Kings".

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I know I'll probably get under the skin of a few people with this but I'm going to say it.LOl

I posted a thread called "The Treasure" I think without looking it up evrybody but one person said,"Its for the kids" when in my original post I stated even my kids were dissapointed in what they found. Personally I think if its only the hunt then why are'nt all caches virtuals? Now, in this thread the majority rules that all they find is garbage. I'm not getting it guys, either it's toys for the kids or it's garbage. Which is it? I've never left toys or garbage. I leave items that are usually $5.00 or more. If I take a toy car I leave something of equal value or better. I took a toy car the other day to get it out and get something better in, rather than a TNLN. I know I'm a newbie and I don't know all there is to know, but I do know the people behind me should be very pleased with a flashlight w/batteries, An expensive new in the package pair of stylish sunglasses, a sleeve of new golf balls or the golf caddy the guy picked up right after I left it. I will be honest, I have had the best time of my life in the last few weeks hiking, biking,walking and seeing places I would never have seen thanks to you guys and I appreciate everyone of you for it, but its more than a hunt for me so I try to make it that way for the guy who follows behind me and can say "I found something really neat".

Well thats my 2 cents worth and even if I get bashed for it I will continue to geocache and have the best time of my life. THANKS EVERYONE!

 

"WITHOUT GEOGRAPHY YOU'RE NOWHERE....Jimmy Buffett

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We agree...Whether we trade or not depends on what the cache contains. We also factor in the experienc of finding the cache. We have enough junk in our home without adding more. If there is something which is clearly going to be of use to us and it matches the approximate value of what we have to trade, we will. Also, if the experience of the cache has been really great and we don't want anything out of it, we will leave something...it just kinda depends.

 

The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.---Matthew 13:44

 

Matt & Julia

 

To view our online geocaching diary/blog, click here

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A proclamation...hear ye! hear he!...

 

If one should decide he or she wished to control thy contents of thy cache...then one shall maketh one's own cache.

 

Furthermore, if one should provide a theme for one's cache, the consequent control of cache's content would increase con-se-quent-tally.

 

Lastl-ay, if-ah anyone knoweth of-a such theme-based caches-ah, it is asked-eh that you would step forth and proclaim such claims, so as to help those in need ov-ah nice-er cache.

 

Thank you and good day!

 

______________________________________________ Kanto

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quote:
Originally posted by IV_Warrior:

I often TNLN for one of 3 reasons:

1. Nothing but junk in the cache

2. Just didn't bring anything with me to trade.

3. Cache in need of maintanence.

 

I don't cache to "get stuff" I do it to relax. For me, it's about seeing a new area, or a new way of seeing a familiar area, and "the hunt".

 

Nothing to see here, move along.


 

I think you hit it right on the nose IV Warrior. If nothing looks interesting, I don't take something just to take something. I might not leave anything either because the cache might be full already and if I stuff one more thing in it, it will make the lib pop off and that doesn't do the cache any good. Better not to over stuff, than to place something in there and then have the cache fall apart at the seams literally.

 

_________________________________

 

Webfoot frog.gif

 

Tromping through the underbrush looking for Ammo cans, Tupperware containers, & little round disks.

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I started out mostly doing TNLNSL but I like the mantra I tend to hear around here lately which is to trade equal or trade up. If a cache is full of garbage I'll CITO the soggy bandaids etc and put in some nifty stuff. I always have some quirky goofy toy or whatsit around to trade so I'll put in whatever I can justify and maybe possibly take something. That's pretty rare though that I find something to take. Sometimes I take something not because I like it but because it seems interesting and is a good potential trade item for another cache.

 

Of course the more out of the way caches I've done, the 2.5 or 3+ difficulty ones out in the middle of nowhere, never have trash in them. Those are the Boston Creme Pie caches and the easy ones with the invariable junk in them are the cheetos. Both are enjoyable in their own ways, but the Boston Creme Pie makes all the soggy bandaid caches worth it. icon_wink.gif

 

As for having a non-TNLN absolute, that's kinda over the top. The hard-set rules for Geocaching have to do with logistics, safety and legal or land management issues. A bulk of the rest is personal choice.

 

Team Kender - "The Sun is coming up!" "No, the horizon is going down."

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For me, if the cache is too full, I'll pull something out for another cache (if its worth the effort) and not leave anything. Or, it might be a themed cache and I didn't bring anything to keep within the theme. And sometimes, I just plain forget to bring my trade item so (tada!) TNLN!.

 

Cheers!

TL

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A passage from "Guide to finding a cache".

 

Step 4 – The Find

 

Huzzah! You found the cache! Congratulations! Now what?

 

Usually you take an item and leave an item, and enter your name and experience you had into the log book. Some people prefer to just enter their name into the log book. It’s an accomplishment enough to locate the cache.

Make sure to seal the cache and place it back where you found it. If it had some rocks covering it, please replace them. It’s pretty straightforward.

Remember that waypoint we suggested you create where your car/trail was located? Use that now to get back! You’ll be glad you had it.

When you get home, email the person who hid the cache and let them know you found it! They’re always happy to know the condition of their cache and it’s nice to know that people are looking for them.

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quote:
Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:

I think that you're taking these rules a little too literally. I understand them this way: 'Should you decided to trade, here's how it works: you can take something but you must leave something in exchange'.


 

So, should you decide to write about it in the logbook then you can claim it as a find! I like these new interpretations of the ruling guidelines.

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness bandbass.gif

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It is more fun if people make a trade. It adds more interest in the logs for me. I like it especially when it is my cache. I do think it is okay for people to do it with a trade or not. If this sport did not leave trinkets it would not be as interesting to me. My boyfriend and I look at everything. It is fun for us.

L of High Desert Fish

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Caches start out with a certain level of stuff. Caches that are not themed tend to decay fastest, but all do. By the time they get to soggy bandaid stage, its time to restart (owner's obligation). Before it gets to that, try TNLS instead. This way the cache decay curve is slowed. If we all were to trade something, ie: take some golf ball or some McToy and leave something a little better behind, we could keep caches from really sinking into cr*p as fast as they seem to do.

 

The problem with TNLN is that you abdicate your role in cache maintenance by not trading. I know I will catch flames for this, but IMHO, the TNLN set simply observes the decay and does nothing to stop it. Like watching someone get sick and not offering to help.

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nebraskache/

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I usually TNLN when there's nothing of interest in the cache or because the cache is so small that none of my trade items will fit. I won't take unless I leave.... seems I've been finding pretty small caches lately and even the travel bug i have wont fit so i cant even leave it....

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i Know for me I only trade for equal value items lots of times you see people took 1824 egyptian coin left georgia state quarter that makes me mad not tnln. tnln means the people probably didnt see anythiny they could do a fare trade for or the cach was to small for there items

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We don't trade a lot anymore. Maybe the thrill of the trade has lessened. Sometimes there is not anything in the cache we're interested in. That doesn't mean there's junk in the cache- just nothing we want. Lastly, we sometimes didn't bring anything of greater or equal value.

 

We really like the hunt.

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It's been some time since I've traded items in a cache. I guess I've found the concept of "trading up", or worse yet swapping things of equal value to be completly relative to the finder.

 

How is it that a cacher(s) can take three items of some value, and leave a "Where's George Bill"? What's of value to some, is worthless to others. I've seen lopsided trading in my caches, and other local caches. I think this may be part of the reason why some end up running low on goodies.

 

I remember early when I started, the excitement of seeing what was all in the cache, looking for something to trade. That wore off as caches became 'junkier', and I got more finds under the belt.

 

I'll continue to TN/LN to preserve cache contents for others just starting out. I still carry a real unique item, or one of value to every cache I hunt. If I find something interesting I can trade, if not... TN/LN.

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TNLN. Unless there is something that catches my eye this is what I usually do.

This is a hobby and people abide by the rules by an honor system. When I first got into the hobby, I loved the idea of the hidden treasure concept. Now I'm more interested moving travel bugs around and simply being able to sign my find in the log located in the cache.

 

The biggest reward is the interesting places this hobby taken me to. There are some trails and points of interest a few miles from where I live, that I had no idea of.

 

My favorite items to leave in a cache are the following:

 

Keychains (IMO these are the best)

Collectibles (trading cards, poker chips)

Small self contained puzzles.

 

Confession:

 

The worst item IMO that I left (on my first cache find) was two soy sauce packets. It was one of those spur of the moment let's go find this thing!

 

A couple of medieval songwriters come up with the idea of chivalry one rainy day... and you embrace it as a lifestyle. You live and die by a code of honor that was trendy when you were a kid.

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I leave the trading for the families who cache with children since the majority of prizes are toys. I rarely find something in a cache I would want, so I do it just for the hunt. On a recent cache hunt I came acrossed my first Geo-Coin in which I traded $2 for it. In the future when I take my little boy out with me we will trade for toys and such, but so long as I cache alone I feel that signing the log and posting my story is all the credit I need. icon_wink.gif

 

Kar

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For what it's worth:

 

There are many good posts in this thread to start out with.

 

You know, I really don't mind personally if a cacher TN/LN, just as long as they signed the log book.

 

Sure, when you trade (especially upward), it puts different and interesting things in the cache that started with a set of original contents. Therefore the contents will always change and proceed on perpetually. I love the trade, and encourage others to do the same.

 

But I'm not upset whatsoever for the TN/LN's.

 

I catch myself (almost daily) thumbing through my finds/hides just to see what newest cacher has found my caches or ones that I found, just to see if they took something I left and see what they left themself. Yeah, I'm a weirdo, I guess.

 

That's my fraction of a nickel.

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It's the journey that counts.

 

During my first 100 or 200, I was dropping in $2 to $4 items half the time, but since there weren't too many $2 items in caches... TN in trade. Then I dropped down to $1 items, but still TN most of the time. I will trade for really cool aliens, though. Doing 10 or 20 caches on a caching day, I forget to mark down the trades.

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