DEET

2.5k · June 19, 2002

When going on a cache hunt in mosquito or tick infested areas, do you put any bug spray such as OFF or DEET on your face or in your hair?

2.6k · June 19, 2002

Preperation, the first law to survival.

June 19, 2002

I love using this stuff for mosquitos, but does it do anything for ticks? Either way I like to feel silky smooth when I cache.

Everywhere that cache is found,

Bound to Cover Just a Little More Ground.

-Dru Morgan www.theheavenlyhost.com/dru

June 19, 2002

I love using this stuff for mosquitos, but does it do anything for ticks? Either way I like to feel silky smooth when I cache.

Everywhere that cache is found,

Bound to Cover Just a Little More Ground.

-Dru Morgan www.theheavenlyhost.com/dru

June 19, 2002

You didn't have a choice to cover my response so I just voted "for sissies". If I'm going to be constantly on the move then I won't apply repellant but if I'm camping then I will apply bug stuff when I stop for the night. Geocaching falls into the "constantly moving" category so I don't use any spray while geocaching.

"There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."

38.2k · June 20, 2002

I didn't vote because your choices didn't cover

my method.

I usually apply it to my neck, face and hat. If I'm wearing shorts, my legs get it too. With long pants, I spray the area around my socks to keep the ticks out. In major tick country, I'll use permethrin (sp?) on my clothing and deet on my skin.

If I'm camping, or fishing, or doing something where I'm not going to be moving much I'll also spray my shirt.

What many people don't realize about deet is that it is not the smell that keeps the bugs away, so you need to cover all exposed skin for it to be effective. You can spray most of your body and leave a small spot uncovered and the mosquitos will find that spot.

4.5k · June 20, 2002

I've stopped caching in tick infested areas until the next frost. Guess I'm a sissy.

Alan

June 20, 2002

I don't use insect repellant unless they are totally unbearable. If I did, I would apply it to my arms, neck, and legs. A hat really helps to keep them at a distance. As long as I'm moving, it's not a problem. Once you find the cache, it becomes an issue in some cases. (See my entry for Wilson cache in LA)

June 20, 2002

I don't think its a good idea to use any of that stuff. When I was a teenager gone fishing I put deet on all over. Still having some on my hands I grabbed my fishing rod which had a black foam grip on it. Well, there was a chemical reaction between the deet, the foam and some other plastic on the handle of the fishing rod. My had temporarily stuck to it and I got tothinking that that goop aint good for anyone. Lone behold its been concidered a carcenogen over the last 8 years or so. Don't use deet. Use some other bio friendly stuff, or just bare it like I do.

June 20, 2002

You whoose's..

For people that use that stuff.

Buck Up!!!

June 20, 2002

I found a better solution (IMHO.) I bought a full body mesquito net from Army Surplus. It is very compact and light. I keep it in my caching bag. Like everyone else, while moving, there seems to be little to no problems. Once I get to the cache site and find it (or after some extensive looking in one small area) I just put the big net over me. (It is also camafloged!) The best deal, is when I find the cache fairly quick (usual) and then I find a nice open spot (read - no Poision Ivy, etc.) I then sit down with the cache, and throw the mesquito net over me, the cache, etc. I now have a nice little "personal" camafloged tent that I am in. Granted, the few areas where the net is in direct contact with my skin it is not as effective, as mesquitos can land on it and bite thru it, but it is too much to carry some framework for it.

I have noticed a dramatic drop in ticks picked off after this scenario, although I still have some of them (I suspet they are on the ground where I sit, ot hitch me on the way in or out. Some of the seed ticks are small enough to pass right thru the netting.)

All in all, it works really well (compared to baring it all as before, or sliming myself up with Deet, Off, etc.) I still carry Deet (Deep Woods Off) and use it when I know it's gonna be real bad, but I prefer my net!

The net is cheap, camo, and serves me well!

--majicman

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

2.5k · June 20, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Rockdoctors:
I don't think its a good idea to use any of that stuff. When I was a teenager gone fishing I put deet on all over. Still having some on my hands I grabbed my fishing rod which had a black foam grip on it. Well, there was a chemical reaction between the deet, the foam and some other plastic on the handle of the fishing rod. My had temporarily stuck to it and I got tothinking that that goop aint good for anyone. Lone behold its been concidered a carcenogen over the last 8 years or so. Don't use deet. Use some other bio friendly stuff, or just bare it like I do.

It may be classified as a carcinogen, but it's a Group D carcinogen (not classifiable as a human carcinogen). There are a lot of myths about DEET, usually passed around by people who really haven't done any research on it. Kinda like an urban legend. As far as a chemical reaction with the foam, I've heard of similar type reactions, but the only ones that concern me are if there is a reaction with my skin, or the plastic bottle the DEET is in

2.5k · June 20, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Rockdoctors:
I don't think its a good idea to use any of that stuff. When I was a teenager gone fishing I put deet on all over. Still having some on my hands I grabbed my fishing rod which had a black foam grip on it. Well, there was a chemical reaction between the deet, the foam and some other plastic on the handle of the fishing rod. My had temporarily stuck to it and I got tothinking that that goop aint good for anyone. Lone behold its been concidered a carcenogen over the last 8 years or so. Don't use deet. Use some other bio friendly stuff, or just bare it like I do.

It may be classified as a carcinogen, but it's a Group D carcinogen (not classifiable as a human carcinogen). There are a lot of myths about DEET, usually passed around by people who really haven't done any research on it. Kinda like an urban legend. As far as a chemical reaction with the foam, I've heard of similar type reactions, but the only ones that concern me are if there is a reaction with my skin, or the plastic bottle the DEET is in

June 20, 2002

I know 2 people that have gotten spotted fever locally this season. I think I'll go with Deet. I spray directly on my legs, arms and other body parts. I spray a small amount on a paper towell, then wipe that on my neck area.

When GPSr's are outlawed, only Outlaws will have GPSr's.

June 20, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by majicman:

mesquitos

I thought Mesquit-Os were that new wood-smoke flavored breakfast cereal? (Sorry, couldn't resist. )

I've been getting eaten alive by ticks this year no matter what I do. While it gives me great pleasure killing each and every tick that I pull off of me, next time I'll have to let one live so that it can go back and tell the others what will happen to them if they mess with me.

Strangely the only outdoors place I go where I don't get ticks is the local dog park, and neither does my dog. This is true even in the wooded areas and when we go through the tall grass. It makes me wonder if the parks department has treated that area with something to kill/prevent ticks.

June 20, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by majicman:

mesquitos

I thought Mesquit-Os were that new wood-smoke flavored breakfast cereal? (Sorry, couldn't resist. )

I've been getting eaten alive by ticks this year no matter what I do. While it gives me great pleasure killing each and every tick that I pull off of me, next time I'll have to let one live so that it can go back and tell the others what will happen to them if they mess with me.

Strangely the only outdoors place I go where I don't get ticks is the local dog park, and neither does my dog. This is true even in the wooded areas and when we go through the tall grass. It makes me wonder if the parks department has treated that area with something to kill/prevent ticks.

June 20, 2002

Using any insect repellent, which contains DEET with young children, I would call your doctor before using. Several years ago my daughters doctor advised us against using anything with DEET. I cannot remember why, but he highly stressed not to be used.

Anyone else heard, why not to use DEET on small children?

June 20, 2002

Using any insect repellent, which contains DEET with young children, I would call your doctor before using. Several years ago my daughters doctor advised us against using anything with DEET. I cannot remember why, but he highly stressed not to be used.

Anyone else heard, why not to use DEET on small children?

38.2k · June 20, 2002

--------------------------------------------------

Using any insect repellent, which contains DEET with young children, I would call your doctor before using. Several years ago my daughters doctor advised us against using anything with DEET. I cannot remember why, but he highly stressed not to be used.

--------------------------------------------------

I've heard it recommended that DEET should be used in lower concentrations for children, but totally avoiding its use on kids is foolish. West Nile Virus, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Lyme and other insect borne diseases are far more dangerous to a child than DEET. There hasn't been conclusive proof that DEET is dangerous with normal usage, but there certainly is proof that insect borne diseases are dangerous to children (and adults) and could be fatal.

2.5k · June 20, 2002

As with anything else, read the label directions. I haven't experienced problems myself, however my wife won't let me put any on the kids. They use Avon skin so soft repellant. The website www.deet.com is very informative and has a page about use on children. I think that like with anything else, you should do your own research rather than taking someone's advice and read the manufacturer's label.

This is getting a bit off-topic, I posted the poll because I was wondering if anyone uses the stuff in their hair.

June 20, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Mossy Oak:
Anyone else heard, why not to use DEET on small children?

A friend and fellow medic once told me about an ambulance run she had involving a child around 2 (her niece ironically enough) that had a severe allergic reaction to DEET. She went into status epilipticus (prolonged seizure) and nearly died. Now granted, anyone can have an allergic reaction but young children are especially vulnerable to known allergens. That is why things like fish, honey, and peanuts are not recommended for youngsters.

When my kids were still stroller/backpack carrier size, I didn't use any type of repellent. Instead, I used mosquito netting all around the stroller or carrier. This worked well. Now I try to stick to the lowest level of DEET that will do the trick. If I do use higher concentrations, I use those on the clothes and hats, the lower concentration stuff on skin. I also avoid the spraying the hands of my 2yo since she's more likely to put her hands in her mouth or rub her eyes. We still end up with an occasional tick and we all have a few mosquito bites more often than not. I haven't tried the permethrin yet (I'm not sure of the spelling either) but I have bought some. I'll apply it before our next camp outing.

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

4.5k · June 20, 2002

BrianSnat makes a good point. The upside risks for getting infected with dangerous diseases far outweigh the risks for children using Deet.

In 1998, the EPA concluded there was no evidence DEET posed any great risks to children. However, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends not using DEET on children under the age of 3. For older children they recommend adults apply it on their own hands first rather than applying it directly. Don’t forget about Permethrin that is applied to clothing. It is a very effective insecticide for ticks and is not dangerous at all to anyone –young or old.

My comment in my previous post about not caching in tick infested areas until the next frost was not said in jest. (I was on antibiotics last October for a month after getting bit by a Lyme infected adult female tick).

Tick diseases are running rampant in the NY area as well as many other nearby and not so nearby areas. In our capital district (Albany) and Rensselear, 50-60% of the ticks carry Lyme disease. In Columbia County, there were 1004 cases/100,000 population the highest reported infection rate in the state. 1 out of 100 might sound low until you realize how many people don’t geocache, hike or hang out in the bushes. We’re prime targets especially when we go of trail for the final leg to the cache. That’s where I got bit. Poking around the bushes, looking for that cache-didn’t find it either!

Beside Lyme, Deer ticks carry ehrlichiosis where one-half of the patients are hospitalized; 2-3% die and babesiosis which is spreading into the Hudson Valley from Long Island , Connecticut, Martha’s Vineyard, Nantucket and that area.

The diseases are not only in NY; it’s just the data I have because I live here. It’s all over. 18,000 cases of Lyme throughout the US in 2000. In Hunterdon County NJ, ticks are being found that are multiple infected with more than one disease.

As they use to say in NYPD Blue, “It’s dangerous out there people.” Protect yourself and your kids.

Alan

1.8k · June 21, 2002

A new product from Avon that is DEET-free, has sunblock protection, repels ticks, and has the cool disappearing color effect so you can be sure that you haven't missed any spots!

June 21, 2002

Instead of DEEt use ketchup to repel those pesky bugs....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_2037000/2037822.stm

9.2k · June 21, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by GeoStars:

Now I try to stick to the lowest level of DEET that will do the trick. If I do use higher concentrations, I use those on the clothes and hats, the lower concentration stuff on skin.

You're wasting you money by applying DEET to clothing. It will have little or no effect. DEET must be in contact with skin in order to work.

June 23, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Rockdoctors:
Lone behold its been concidered a carcenogen over the last 8 years or so. Don't use deet

here is the MSDS (Material data safty sheet) for deet, see heath hazard information.

http://www.scs-mall.com/images/Sp718%20MSDS.PDF

but dont get me wrong, any product will cause irratations to skin in some pple.

so use your onw judgement

June 23, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Geo Quest:
If I'm going to be constantly on the move then I won't apply repellant but if I'm camping then I will apply bug stuff when I stop for the night. Geocaching falls into the "constantly moving" category so I don't use any spray while geocaching.

I don't know how fast the bugs are where you're from, but around here you would have to run to avoid them. I can picture it now, me running in circles trying to read/sign the logbook. So yes, bug repellant is a must, the more deet the better.

June 23, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Geo Quest:
If I'm going to be constantly on the move then I won't apply repellant but if I'm camping then I will apply bug stuff when I stop for the night. Geocaching falls into the "constantly moving" category so I don't use any spray while geocaching.

I don't know how fast the bugs are where you're from, but around here you would have to run to avoid them. I can picture it now, me running in circles trying to read/sign the logbook. So yes, bug repellant is a must, the more deet the better.

2.5k · June 23, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by johnnyb5:

Originally posted by Rockdoctors:

http://www.scs-mall.com/images/Sp718%20MSDS.PDF

but dont get me wrong, any product will cause irratations to skin in some pple.

so use your onw judgement

There is no mention of skin irritation. It only mentions irritation if you get it in your eyes. So don't put any in your eyes.

2.5k · June 23, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by johnnyb5:

Originally posted by Rockdoctors:

http://www.scs-mall.com/images/Sp718%20MSDS.PDF

but dont get me wrong, any product will cause irratations to skin in some pple.

so use your onw judgement

There is no mention of skin irritation. It only mentions irritation if you get it in your eyes. So don't put any in your eyes.

June 23, 2002

You can read more at the link, I copies one section for everyone to check.

http://www.channelcincinnati.com/cin/health/healthteam/stories/healthteam-naturalhealthcheck-75530220010504-130506.html

quote:
THE CHEMICAL CALLED "DEET"
DEET is the active ingredient in most synthetic repellents. "DEET" is short for a potent pesticide called N,N,DEETHYL META TOLUAMIDE. Research reviewed by the Centers For Disease Control and Prevention has shown that once N,N,DIETHYL-META TOLUAMIDE absorbs in the body it can cause severe hives, rashes, muscle spasms, seizures and even death.

CHRILDREN ARE AT RISKThe National Poison Control Center in Washington, in 1995, reported over 6,700 cases of poisoning due to exposure to insect repellent, including one death. Two-thirds of these cases were children under six. Children are more at risk because they often end up getting higher doses of the chemicals in their bodies.

Their ratio of skin surface to body weight is higher, so they absorb more of the chemical than an adult. Also the insect repellent residue on their hands often ends up in their mouths. There are other risks. A study in the International Journal of Oncology linked exposure to DEET to testicular cancer. That same study also noted that this particular form of cancer has risen 68 percent between 1973 and 1994 in men ages 20-39 years of age.

4.5k · June 23, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Mossy Oak:... A study in the International Journal of Oncology linked exposure to DEET to testicular cancer. ...

what a dreadful thought...and I was worried about ticks!!

Alan

4.5k · June 23, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Mossy Oak:... A study in the International Journal of Oncology linked exposure to DEET to testicular cancer. ...

what a dreadful thought...and I was worried about ticks!!

Alan

2.5k · June 23, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Mossy Oak:
_You can read more at the link, I copies one section for everyone to check._

http://www.channelcincinnati.com/cin/health/healthteam/stories/healthteam-naturalhealthcheck-75530220010504-130506.html

Remind me not to get my news from Channel cincinnati. This is typical sensationalism on a slow news day. While there have been a few cases of adverse reactions, millions use DEET without problems.

If you really want to know what the CDC says about DEET, you can get that info directly from them http://www.cdc.gov/travel/bugs.htm

As far as National Poison Control Center in Washington, this is probably made up by the news team as I can't seem to find that this agency exists, or the data they speak of.

The CDC does recommend the use of permethrin on clothes and gives recommendations on the use of DEET. It does not recommend for use on children under age 2, and sparingly on ages 2 to 6.

June 23, 2002

I've used DEET for years, but like anything else, if you over do it you can cause problems. The only time I use it is when there are lots of bitting bugs. I use the strongest I can get, but I don't use lots of it. I do take B vitamins on a regular basis and a little extra when I expect to be in mosquito country. The combination seems to help. Sometimes there's absoutly nothing that will keep the rotten little things away. Then I find someplace else to play.

Byron

June 23, 2002

The article also says this research was "reviewed" by the CDC. they did not do the research. You can find research to support anything you want if you look or pay enough.

2.5k · July 3, 2002

Thanks for all of the feedback. I guess I'll keep using it on my face and in my hair when necessary. The kids will keep using the gentle stuff for now.

July 3, 2002

Spray the repellant onto a cloth first then wipe your face (watch the eyes) you can spray but wiping is much more thorogh.

Eye, Ham, We, Todd, Did

Sofa, King, We, Todd, Did

2.5k · July 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by magellin:
Spray the repellant onto a cloth first then wipe your face (watch the eyes) you can spray but wiping is much more thorogh.

I already do this. The stuff I use is liquid, not spray. Using cloth keeps it off my hands.

quote:
Eye, Ham, We, Todd, Did

Sofa, King, We, Todd, Did

Cool, ebonics

2.5k · July 3, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by magellin:
Spray the repellant onto a cloth first then wipe your face (watch the eyes) you can spray but wiping is much more thorogh.

I already do this. The stuff I use is liquid, not spray. Using cloth keeps it off my hands.

quote:
Eye, Ham, We, Todd, Did

Sofa, King, We, Todd, Did

Cool, ebonics

July 4, 2002

I'm a sissy!

3.5k · July 6, 2002

Someone posted earlier about Deet reacting with plastic. Be careful. I pretty much ruined a new faceplate on my cellphone today.

My eTrex seems fine, though.

Bret

"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field.

When a man found it, he hid it again."

Mt. 13:44

July 6, 2002

The CDC web site article affirms my affection toward DEET...I have always used it unsparingly...basically, according to the article, you just have to remember to NOT EAT IT! Avoid eyes, and not on open sores (ouch).

Once I was in a very large rural timber area in August in northern Florida. The gnats (not skeeters) were so abundant that they were teaming IN and AROUND orifices - i.e. nostrils, ears, mouth - and were particularly gross. If you let them they would gladly bury themselves deeper by crawler deeper in your nose or ears. And, I don't mean 2 or 3 of them. Imagine, if you can, 20 to 40 of them around each ear...an impossible situation.

EXCEPT for one thing...100% DEET!! I never use 100% except in that situation. It usu. comes in a small bottle and you apply it with your finger. The good news is that it worked well...the alternative was nasty...and, assuredly unhealthy. Have you ever seen cows with their runny noses and a hundred gnarly gnats wanting to lay eggs there? [is that graphic enough?]

So, yes, I use DEET.

When you leave this earth, the cache stays.

July 7, 2002

I learned years ago that it was necessary to a successful camping tripfpr my boy scout troop. We applied it toeach othe rto get it on ebenly without waste and my guys never came down with a bug borne desease.

I have found enjoying a nice double corona cigar will keep the area around my face and neck clear.

July 7, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by CYBret: Someone posted earlier about Deet reacting with plastic. Be careful. I pretty much ruined a new faceplate on my cellphone today.

Before assuming that your faceplates are ruined, try erasing it with a pencil eraser. We noticed a reaction on the plastic faceplates of our digital watches. My husband found that he could simply erase it off. Worked for my watch, too. Now we remember to remove our watches before we spray.

1.6k · July 8, 2002

Last week's New England Journal had a controlled study of the various commercially available bug repellents. DEET came away with the most success, Skin-So-Soft did poorly. You can read the summary of the article at www.nejm.org.

9.2k · July 8, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by CarmelCachers:

Before assuming that your faceplates are ruined, try erasing it with a pencil eraser. We noticed a reaction on the plastic faceplates of our digital watches. My husband found that he could simply erase it off. Worked for my watch, too. Now we remember to remove our watches before we spray.

Deep Woods Off actually has a warning that it can damage watch crystals and plastics. As for Skin-So-Soft, about all it does it make your skin softer so the mosquitoes can puncture your skin more easily.

9.2k · July 8, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by CarmelCachers:

Before assuming that your faceplates are ruined, try erasing it with a pencil eraser. We noticed a reaction on the plastic faceplates of our digital watches. My husband found that he could simply erase it off. Worked for my watch, too. Now we remember to remove our watches before we spray.

Deep Woods Off actually has a warning that it can damage watch crystals and plastics. As for Skin-So-Soft, about all it does it make your skin softer so the mosquitoes can puncture your skin more easily.

July 8, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by bigredmed:
You can read the summary of the article at http://www.nejm.org.

There's another article about the same study at MSN.com. It covers pretty much the same ground as the article Bigredmed mentioned, but it gives the name of the best non-DEET repellant, for those of you that might want it.

July 8, 2002

Yeah, I use it. But that brings up another question for those who are in the 'Do use it' camp.

I've been using the 'Deep Woods' 100% flavor of DEET that comes in a little plastic bottle with a handpump spray on top. The DEET works well for me, but the bottle is junk - it leaks. I end up losing about half a bottle. I'm not sure exactly what's causing the leaks (it might be if the bottle tips over, if it gets too hot, both or neither) and it's happened on at least 3 bottles so far. I keep it in a plastic ziplock bag but that doesn't help much (and DEET eats through the plastic).

So my question: Does this happen to anyone else, and if so, what do you do about it?

Lately, I've tried putting the entire DEET bottle into a stronger plastic container - the jury is still out on that one. If that leaks, I'm just planning on dumping the entire bottle into a sturdy glass screw top bottle, and putting the DEET on by hand.

DEET

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