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vandalism?


farrellg

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Our first cache lasted almost a year with terrific response. And then last week we discovered that someone had stolen it. Why in the world would someone do that? I know you don't have the answer but I'm curious if this has happened to anyone else. Is this a common thing?

It's very frustrating. Venting anger is good...

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Check this out:

 

About 20-30 people visit my cache... then it gets vandalized. A fellow-cacher and all-around good guy reports the loss... and says he managed to find the log book! So he mails it to me. I rip out the page that says "F**K THIS," get a new ammo box, and replace the cache, moving it maybe ten feet and not making a big deal of it in the log. Couple of months go by, another fifteen finds... and someone reports they've found all the contents... but no box!! So back I go today and put the neatly-packeaged contents in yet another new box. If it's trashed again I guess I'll archive the cache. But the events have been kind of interesting. I mean... whose life is so boring that they want to spend time hunting down a cache just so they can trash it? And who would take a box... and leave the contents?

 

I'll keep you posted!!

 

Charlie

 

"One should never begin a journey by heading in the wrong direction."

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Took my step-dad on our second cache hunt and he was very surprised to see it was an ammo can. His comment, "I'm surprised someone doesn't dump the contents and take the can". He would never do this of course, he's one of the most ethical people I know. But I have to admit that the thought hadn't even occurred to me. I have been accused of being a bit naive... As to why someone would plunder or steal a cache, I have no idea. I don't understand that kind of thinking. icon_frown.gif

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Took my step-dad on our second cache hunt and he was very surprised to see it was an ammo can. His comment, "I'm surprised someone doesn't dump the contents and take the can". He would never do this of course, he's one of the most ethical people I know. But I have to admit that the thought hadn't even occurred to me. I have been accused of being a bit naive... As to why someone would plunder or steal a cache, I have no idea. I don't understand that kind of thinking. icon_frown.gif

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Only a year ago did I see my first ever ammo can. I was shopping for camping supplies in a surplus store, and here were a stack of durable, airtight containers, and they were really cheap!

 

I was impressed. I can imagine how inviting they are if someone happens upon one in the woods. Who cares if it's full of stuff you don't want. Probably thought it was something somebody lost or forgot out there in the middle of nowhere.

 

What you need to do is paint it some funky color. Make it silly looking for some tough woodsy guy (it most certainly is males doing these things icon_frown.gif ) to have in the back of his truck or in his garage. Put icon_smile.gif smileys icon_smile.gif all over it.

 

Jamie

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Only a year ago did I see my first ever ammo can. I was shopping for camping supplies in a surplus store, and here were a stack of durable, airtight containers, and they were really cheap!

 

I was impressed. I can imagine how inviting they are if someone happens upon one in the woods. Who cares if it's full of stuff you don't want. Probably thought it was something somebody lost or forgot out there in the middle of nowhere.

 

What you need to do is paint it some funky color. Make it silly looking for some tough woodsy guy (it most certainly is males doing these things icon_frown.gif ) to have in the back of his truck or in his garage. Put icon_smile.gif smileys icon_smile.gif all over it.

 

Jamie

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They took cache box, left McDonald's Happy Meal toy?

 

Geesh!

 

Probably not applicable here, but I've found that if you list the contents of the cache when you register it, and the contents are good, then they go missing with no logs.

 

Now I just say that there are goodies in the cache and leave it at that.

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I showed my mom geocaching the other day. The first thing she said when I showed her one I had ready to go in an ammo can. "Someone will dump the stuff and take the can".

 

Anyway, I put all my caches out there under the assumption that they will have a limited life span. So every week that goes by and they are still out there I'm impressed and happy.

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I know of one cache in NJ where the contents were stolen and the container left behind along with a note that said "Team GEOTerror was here".

I hope this is not a trend. There is a certain percentage of jerks in the world. As more people get into Geocaching, we'll have to deal with more jerks. I had a cache where some of the contents were burned and neatly placed back inside. Couldn't figure that one out.

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We've had some past problems here in Orlando with a group of people deliberatly taking caches and vandalizing them. Then leave a note announcing the fact, similar to this GeoTerror Squad, don't replace the cache immediatly. Your best bet is to archive the cache for a few weeks in the hopes that they lose interest, then go out and set up a new cache.

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Here is one cache I found that was looted. The looters left the container and logbook, but took all the stuff. They left a log entry, detailing their exploits.

 

Warning... profanity in the log entry:

The vandals left this message.

 

My cache Coastal Limerick Cache had the camera stolen within the first week, but fortunately nothing else really happened, except everyone traded down... I was convinced it was regularly looted, but after looking through the logs, I noticed that people where simply trading down. So, after a few trades, the cache was pretty empty.

 

/AlienPuppy

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quote:
Originally posted by alienpuppy:

Warning... profanity in the log entry:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cachelog_details.asp?ID=19764&L=190133

 

I'm sorry, but that note had me rolling on the floor. I actually had tears in my eyes! I've placed a cache and I'd hate for someone to plunder it, but if they should, I would hope they leave a note half as hilarious as this one.

 

... Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--

I took the one less traveled by, ...

 

unclerojelio[/url

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I fail to see what is so funny about that log. It reveals nothing but sad details. Detail one, the people who wrote it were theives. Detail two, they have no respect for themselves or the law (went there to commit an illegal act to begin with, one which is harmful to themselves at that) Detail three, they are vulgar. Detail four, they are mean spirited, not only did they steal the cache, but they left a note with the purpose of mocking the person they stole from.

 

Nothing funny about any of that, it is a sad statement on the status of far too many of our youth these days.

 

Another thing I don't understand is why people would steal an ammo can and leave the stuff inside. It is bad enough they are thieving, do they have to litter as well? Also, ammo cans are cheap, sheesh, what is so hard about buying your own if you need one??

 

Sad this world if filling up with such selfish and uncivilized behavior.

 

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

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Yeah, my first cache placed was stolen. I'm about 90-100% sure it was the lovely landscape maintenance half-wits that work for the city here. (It was there for several months with several finds. Then someone found it and a couple of days later, the next log entry said it was gone. I went out to check it a couple of days later and about 15 feet from where it used to be, bags of leaves -- no cache.)

 

No one ever goes out there which is why I was surprised the landscape maintenance people were there. That's part of the reason I put it there...the area is so neglected 364 days out of the year, I thought it might help clean up the place and give people a new place to play football, frisbee, etc...guess not. If the landscape maintenance people didn't take it (yeah, right) then someone apparently hunted it from the coordinates and stole it. It was in an ammo can. Next time, the ammo can gets painted light pink and purple with hard enamel that would be too much trouble to remove and repaint green. Hopefully, that will discourage thieves. I have zero tolerance for thievery.

 

Anyway, yes it did put a damper on my participation in placing caches. You can bet that next time I place one, it will require hours (if not days) to find and will probably be a huge multi-cache covering about a 20 square-mile area. Then if someone wants to get the coordinates and steal it, they'll have to work for it first. I'll guarantee the landscape maintenance 'people' won't see this one.

 

JM-99

 

[This message was edited by Jumpmaster on April 17, 2002 at 11:16 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Jumpmaster:

... It was there for several months with several finds. Then someone found it and a couple of days later, the next log entry said it was gone. I went out to check it a couple of days later and about 15 feet from where it used to be, bags of leaves -- no cache. ... If the landscape maintenance people didn't take it (yeah, right) then someone apparently hunted it from the coordinates and stole it. ...


 

You didn't state if the cache had been well hidden or left out in plain view. The maintenance people could have received "help" from the last people to find it if they hadn't rehidden it to match the cache description.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Jumpmaster:

You can bet that next time I place one, it will require hours (if not days) to find and will probably be a huge multi-cache covering about a 20 square-mile area. Then if someone wants to get the coordinates and steal it, they'll have to work for it first.


 

Great! But remember that you will also be automatically limiting the number of geocachers willing to put the time and effort into the search, and that creating a multicache automatically increases the possibility that part of the multicache will "go missing."

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quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

You didn't state if the cache had been well hidden or left out in plain view. The maintenance people could have received "help" from the last people to find it if they hadn't rehidden it to match the cache description.


 

That is a good point...it was very well-hidden from view...someone that would have found it would know where to replace it (unless they just really wanted it out in the open...could be a possibility...)

 

quote:

Great! But remember that you will also be automatically limiting the number of geocachers willing to put the time and effort into the search, and that creating a multicache automatically increases the possibility that part of the multicache will "go missing."


 

Another great point...yes, I realize fewer people will probably take the time/effort to find it and that part of it could go missing. No, I don't care. icon_smile.gif (There are so few caches in this area that probably all the local cachers (about 5 or 6) will try and find it anyway...if some folks are in from out-of-town, they'll probably forego that one unless they're going to be here a few days. Oh well. I want to create a challenging hunt for the few of us active geocachers in the area...it will have the added benefit of having a very low likelihood of being found by those that don't need to find it.

 

I'll keep a close eye on the parts to make sure they're all still they're. The stages will be in places I frequent anyway so will be easy to check on. Thanks for the heads-up...I had thought about those good points before making the decision to do the next cache I place in this manner.

 

JM-99

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quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

You didn't state if the cache had been well hidden or left out in plain view. The maintenance people could have received "help" from the last people to find it if they hadn't rehidden it to match the cache description.


 

That is a good point...it was very well-hidden from view...someone that would have found it would know where to replace it (unless they just really wanted it out in the open...could be a possibility...)

 

quote:

Great! But remember that you will also be automatically limiting the number of geocachers willing to put the time and effort into the search, and that creating a multicache automatically increases the possibility that part of the multicache will "go missing."


 

Another great point...yes, I realize fewer people will probably take the time/effort to find it and that part of it could go missing. No, I don't care. icon_smile.gif (There are so few caches in this area that probably all the local cachers (about 5 or 6) will try and find it anyway...if some folks are in from out-of-town, they'll probably forego that one unless they're going to be here a few days. Oh well. I want to create a challenging hunt for the few of us active geocachers in the area...it will have the added benefit of having a very low likelihood of being found by those that don't need to find it.

 

I'll keep a close eye on the parts to make sure they're all still they're. The stages will be in places I frequent anyway so will be easy to check on. Thanks for the heads-up...I had thought about those good points before making the decision to do the next cache I place in this manner.

 

JM-99

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Not sure what gives....we got hit again. Our second cache got nailed after only a few weeks of existing. What I wonder is, why do people do this? Is it a enviro-nazi thing were some people cant handle not natural things hidden in the woods? Is it personal, and these folks need to destroy someone elses hard work to prove a point? This last one that turned up missing would have required to thief to hike several miles, uphill....some one actually did this for no other purpose but to steal a cache...that has little intrinsic value at all...so why all the effort? Just to make us mad? To prove you can?

 

I dont think I will ever understand what drives some people. All our efforts wasted, and we dont even have the comfort of knowing what they were wasted for. I think for the time being...we give up...you win whoever you are....it isnt worth replacing the things everytime this jerk gets bored and goes out and steals our caches. Hope you're happy. icon_frown.gif

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Not sure what gives....we got hit again. Our second cache got nailed after only a few weeks of existing. What I wonder is, why do people do this? Is it a enviro-nazi thing were some people cant handle not natural things hidden in the woods? Is it personal, and these folks need to destroy someone elses hard work to prove a point? This last one that turned up missing would have required to thief to hike several miles, uphill....some one actually did this for no other purpose but to steal a cache...that has little intrinsic value at all...so why all the effort? Just to make us mad? To prove you can?

 

I dont think I will ever understand what drives some people. All our efforts wasted, and we dont even have the comfort of knowing what they were wasted for. I think for the time being...we give up...you win whoever you are....it isnt worth replacing the things everytime this jerk gets bored and goes out and steals our caches. Hope you're happy. icon_frown.gif

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I couldn't believe it when I received an e-mail from Team Epitome today telling me their latest cache had been stolen.

 

The person responsible for the deed must be very desperate for attention.

 

It appears that in order to place challenging caches in this area, cache owners will have to go even one step further than MOCs. Will cache owners be compelled to require potential seekers to e-mail them specific and verifiable personal data before releasing the starting coordinates for a cache?

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You're saying that Combination Rock is now gone?

There is obviously someone out there targeting your caches, for whatever sick reason. It's not like you're losing level 1 or 2 caches. From what I've read, your caches take a lot of time and effort (and thus have been high on my list of ones to find). dadgum shame.

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The only thing I can come up with is to not post teh real coordinates on the cache page....people will have to email us for them, and then we would only give them out to established cachers that we know either from the forums or from reputation. That really sucks because it excludes a lot of good people, but what other option do we have? We cant keep spending money placing complicated caches only to have them get stolen. If we ever do combo rock again, it will be a MOC, and possibly only open to people with an established reputation. I hate that, but I cant think of any other way to keep our caches alive...if they are available to everyone, they are just going to dissappear again.

 

Any other thoughts on what you would do in the same situation? We really want to offer this cache again, but are not taking chances...this one was simply too much effort, time, and $.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team_Epitome:

The only thing I can come up with is to not post teh real coordinates on the cache page....


 

Right. I would post the coordinates for the recommended parking, so that people knew the general area to expect.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Team_Epitome:

...people will have to email us for them, and then we would only give them out to established cachers that we know either from the forums or from reputation. That really sucks because it excludes a lot of good people, but what other option do we have? ...


 

Yes, it does. But it does appear that a tightly controlled MOC of this nature is the best way to ensure survival of the cache.

 

quote:
...if they are available to everyone, they are just going to dissappear again.

 

It's so sad everyone must be inconvenienced and undergo greater scrutiny because of the anyone.

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What if you just made it a members only cache? I have yet to see any of these listed near me, but it seems that it may help the issue. If you are desperate enough to steal an ammo can. I doubt they would pay $3 to be a member here.

 

"Indecision may or may not be my problem"----J. Buffett

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quote:
Originally posted by rghermes:

What if you just made it a members only cache? I have yet to see any of these listed near me, but it seems that it may help the issue. If you are desperate enough to steal an ammo can. I doubt they would pay $3 to be a member here.


 

Making the cache members only or providing email support only for the coords occurred to as an idea, but I decided a while back that after a few of my caches were either plundered or apparently so but actually the victims of other lazy cachers, that a cache's inherent insecurity (posted coordinates) is hardly the whole problem.

 

Take the example of the maintenance personnel, who apparently stumbled upon it. Or the local ne'erdowells who go out "spliffing" and consider the neat hiding place around your cache to be neat for their purposes as well. Or in general, the cache that is placed (inadvertantly) 30 metres off the trail?) Or the off-trailers who stumble upon it? Too many caches that I've placed and found could be discovered that way.

 

This issue bothers me too, but there isn't much we can do.

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quote:
Originally posted by malak:

Take the example of the maintenance personnel, who apparently stumbled upon it. Or the local ne'erdowells who go out "spliffing" and consider the neat hiding place around your cache to be neat for their purposes as well. Or in general, the cache that is placed (inadvertantly) 30 metres off the trail?) Or the off-trailers who stumble upon it? Too many caches that I've placed and found could be discovered that way.

 

This issue bothers me too, but there isn't much we can do.


 

Unfortunately, in the case of our caches, they were not accidentally wandered upon, they were targeted, and stolen. I agree with you that the coordinates are not the problem, the problem is that some poeple shouldnt breed. I have come to realize that there may not be anything we can do to replace our cache that was recently stolen...there is just no way to ensure that it will ever stay put, unless we redo the entire thing in a new location and only give the coordinates and clues to people we know...which kinda defeats the whole purpose of doing this in the first place. I have emailed Jeremy regarding my concerns on this issue, but unfortunately there is just nothing that can be done to stop determined criminals intent on stealing what doesnt belong to them. I dont mean to complain, but when I first got involved in geocaching, there were far fewer people who even knew about it....I think I prefered it then...the caches were higher quality, the forums were friendlier, and caches were seldom ripped off. My experience last year sadly will not be my experience this year. I have met many nice people, and shared emails with even more from around the country, but if I cant even place a cache without it getting stolen, I see no point in continuing. It is a very real possibility that the team will just disband and we will go back to our individual accounts, and only log finds from this point forward. When our first cache was ripped off, we bounced back quickly and replaced it, but after the second one turned up missing, well, it definitely took my heart out of it.

 

such a shame that a few jerks can ruin the fun for so many others

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Team Epitome:

 

I agree that it is heartbreaking to see any cache go for any reason. And I have heard of targetted caches, and this idea frustrated. I am ever so thankful that neither any of my caches or any others local to my 100 mile radius has ever (at least to my knowledge) been targetted this way.

 

My big beef right now is just with people increasing the inherent security of their cache. My first cache disappeared after three months, and unfortunately while disappointed I'm not surprised, particularly since any other location as little as 100 metres away would have been so much more secure.

 

Another of my caches surprises me more and more with time that it's *still* there. As do a few of my others. One completely baffles me beyond it having been in a popular park.

 

I have been to others' caches and figured that the cache would succumb to theft sooner or later, despite the hider's confidence. It was stolen. Another cache I went to, I figured the moment I spotted it, good location that it was in in a general sense, that it wouldn't last long. Within six weeks of then (I was first and only finder, within two days) Cliffy went looking for it without success.

 

I am very sorry that your team's caches have been targetted. I know that I likely won't replace a cache in its original location to avoid embodying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." No insult intended -- but unfortunately, I'm afraid that that may very well be a part of the game. Just leave that bunch of ne'erdowells alone.

 

I'm also sorry to hear that you may disband -- what a shame it would be! icon_frown.gif

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Team Epitome:

 

I agree that it is heartbreaking to see any cache go for any reason. And I have heard of targetted caches, and this idea frustrated. I am ever so thankful that neither any of my caches or any others local to my 100 mile radius has ever (at least to my knowledge) been targetted this way.

 

My big beef right now is just with people increasing the inherent security of their cache. My first cache disappeared after three months, and unfortunately while disappointed I'm not surprised, particularly since any other location as little as 100 metres away would have been so much more secure.

 

Another of my caches surprises me more and more with time that it's *still* there. As do a few of my others. One completely baffles me beyond it having been in a popular park.

 

I have been to others' caches and figured that the cache would succumb to theft sooner or later, despite the hider's confidence. It was stolen. Another cache I went to, I figured the moment I spotted it, good location that it was in in a general sense, that it wouldn't last long. Within six weeks of then (I was first and only finder, within two days) Cliffy went looking for it without success.

 

I am very sorry that your team's caches have been targetted. I know that I likely won't replace a cache in its original location to avoid embodying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." No insult intended -- but unfortunately, I'm afraid that that may very well be a part of the game. Just leave that bunch of ne'erdowells alone.

 

I'm also sorry to hear that you may disband -- what a shame it would be! icon_frown.gif

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I'd say that if caches in a particular area are being plundered, it would be a good idea to replace them with Members Only Caches. Thieves are not likely to pay $3 a month to steal caches.

 

Hiding them better is only helpful to prevent them from being stumbled upon. It won't prevent unethical geocachers from "search and destroy" missions.

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Vandalism of caches in Worcester, MA and Worcester County seems to be the norm here lately; Showcase Cache, Camera Cache, Old Stone Church, Nikki and Gwynny's Cache, Patch Cache, Center of Mass, all were either stolen or heavily vandalized. Of those Old Stone Church and Nikki and Gwynny's Cache were MOC!

 

Mike (The DirtMan) Pellerin

aka Badger

dirtman@iname.com

 

Jason Dobson

aka "Jay" "J"

Myth8499@aol.com

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if you cable lock the cache they may just leave something offensive like urine or fecal matter. the thing to do is move it somewhere that is populated. how does this work??? it relies on testing the nerves of the idiots.. lots of people around, any one of them could be the cache owner waiting to beat your a$$.

 

a cache out in the sticks could provide plenty of time to plunder or vandalize.

 

urbo icon_wink.gif

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if you cable lock the cache they may just leave something offensive like urine or fecal matter. the thing to do is move it somewhere that is populated. how does this work??? it relies on testing the nerves of the idiots.. lots of people around, any one of them could be the cache owner waiting to beat your a$$.

 

a cache out in the sticks could provide plenty of time to plunder or vandalize.

 

urbo icon_wink.gif

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icon_mad.gif RacerB and I placed a cache in Kansas City in March, it was recently vandalized. Fist time a cache has been vandalized for either of us. icon_mad.gif

 

brettd is mailing us the log book (thanks by the way), which he found, since we live a few hours away. I was really dissapointed to find out that it has been stolen. I have had caches "vandalized" by animails before, but they don't leave you nasty little messages on post-it notes to find. icon_mad.gif

Check out the log of brettd: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=17795

 

icon_mad.gif It just stinks that somebody would do that. icon_mad.gif

 

The Mountain Bike Guy.

17228_200.jpg

Long Live Long Rides!

 

[This message was edited by MTBguy on May 01, 2002 at 01:42 PM.]

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icon_mad.gif RacerB and I placed a cache in Kansas City in March, it was recently vandalized. Fist time a cache has been vandalized for either of us. icon_mad.gif

 

brettd is mailing us the log book (thanks by the way), which he found, since we live a few hours away. I was really dissapointed to find out that it has been stolen. I have had caches "vandalized" by animails before, but they don't leave you nasty little messages on post-it notes to find. icon_mad.gif

Check out the log of brettd: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=17795

 

icon_mad.gif It just stinks that somebody would do that. icon_mad.gif

 

The Mountain Bike Guy.

17228_200.jpg

Long Live Long Rides!

 

[This message was edited by MTBguy on May 01, 2002 at 01:42 PM.]

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Just found out today that we've had another cache stolen. That is 3 in 3 months. I'm tired of this. Really I am. No other caches in the area are disappearing, therefore I can only assume we are being targeted for some stupid childish reason.... We won't be placing anymore caches around Colorado Springs. We'll have to move our cache activities elsewhere.

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