+jollybgood Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 This is a very interesting read http://www-cgsc.army.mil/milrev/English/MarApr01/adams.asp ""In August 2000 the Greek government sponsored a tank competition at Litokhoro to determine the Greek army's next tank—a deal worth $1.4 billion for 250 tanks. Competitors included the British Challenger 2E, the US M1A1 Abrams, the German Leopard 2A5 and the French Leclerc. During the trials, the British and US tanks had navigation problems despite using multiple GPS satellites to determine their positions precisely. After the embarrassing performance, officials discovered that the GPS satellites were being jammed—by a French security agency. Less than a foot high, the jammers transmitted stronger signals than satellites on the same frequency. The jammers were reportedly hidden on the firing range and remotely activated as US and British tanks were tested. Greek defense officials found the jamming episode rather amusing and discounted the associated technical problems. The threat remains: if an ally can create such havoc during a test, what effect could hostile GPS jamming have during combat? " Given the fact that war is looming near it makes you wonder if the problem has been addressed. Jolly R. Blackburn http://kenzerco.com Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 I think that problem is addressed through an effective bombing campaign. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Hmmm...They might have to pull out their GPS back up and read a map. Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
+zippes Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 ...errr.... sbell111, (just for clarification ;-)... since the French were responsible for the jamming... are up your purposing that this bombing campaign be aimed at the French?? "Remember... nothing is completly worthless!!... it can always be used as a bad example"! Quote Link to comment
+brad.32 Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Jammed GPS signals would mean missing the targets and hitting civilians and civilian targets. Hmmm. There are pros and cons to that in Iraq. Quote Link to comment
+Stunod Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Rasstag:are up your purposing that this bombing campaign be aimed at the French?? Haven't you noticed that we always "accidently" bomb the French when they are not participating with us? Didn't one of our bombs find their Lybian embassy after they refused to let us fly thru their airspace? You would think they would learn... "Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." Quote Link to comment
Tahosa and Sons Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 GPS goes back aways, Charlie used them in Nam, they were known as Gooey Pungi Sticks. Low tech but they worked. Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops. Quote Link to comment
Data Lynx Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Here is a link to a reportfiled by Lieutenant Colonel John A. Gentry, USAR Ret., an analyst with the Center for Integrated Intelligence Systems, the MITRE Corporation. He directly addresses these issues. http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/02winter/gentry.htm Here's a link discussing both how to build a GPS jammer and what some agencies have already done about it: http://www.chipcenter.com/TestandMeasurement/ed030.html I'm sure there are technologies on both sides of the line now that deal with overcoming these shortcomings, vulnerabilities, and weaknesses. Chances are though that the technologies for dealing with such are not publicly discussed. Cheers, Data Lynx Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 We still have the old fashioned Warriors,ready to go in a Minutes Notice.Trained in all aspects,if they think they have a chance blocking signals they are mistaken,and if they do NO PROBLEM,we will get them anyway as said we are prepared for anything and this is our Heritage.You can't change some things about the Foot Soldiers, Remember your Windage and Elevation? Longitude and Latitude can be determined the old fashion way still. WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails Quote Link to comment
+Breaktrack Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 quote:Originally posted by brad.32:Jammed GPS signals would mean missing the targets and hitting civilians and civilian targets. Hmmm. There are pros and cons to that in Iraq. I'm sorry, having been behind the sights on many a tank, it has no effect on what I shoot at, I only shoot at what I can identify. If you are talking about artillery you might have a case, but not direct fire weapons. The jamming in question is just about moving about and finding a spot where I'm supposed to be. Just another instance where the French have to cheat to win. Oh, and don't worry folks, our troops learn how to read a map first, then learn how to use a GPSr. There's a saying; There's nothing more dangerous than a 2nd Lieutenant with a map. "Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life. Quote Link to comment
+yorelken Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Not that it says all that much..http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=533&e=3&cid=533&u=/ap/20030312/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq_military Quote Link to comment
Northern-Lights Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 The jammers have to be close to be effective....that means we will be engaging them with direct fire weapons......which means it doesn't matter anymore if they are jamming...because they soon won't be!! And just me two cents worth on the French....I recently saw an add for some French WWII weapons.....the add stated....."never fired....dropped once".!! Does that about say it about them!! We're going on a treasure hunt...we're not quite sure just where...but with our trusty GPS, we'll find a cache stashed there!! By Daughter Cheryl Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Rasstag:...errr.... sbell111, (just for clarification ;-)... since the French were responsible for the jamming... are up your purposing that this bombing campaign be aimed at the French?? Actually, I was referring specifically to the expected hostilities in Iraq. Bombing the French would be overkill. Just show up at the party and they'll surrender. Quote Link to comment
TriCityGuy Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 The business connnection between France and Iraq becomes more profound every day. I even understand that Iraq may have some spare French made Mirage fighters that Iraq could use as terrorist drones and fly chemical/biological weapons to neighboring countries. If one of those drones uses GPS maybe instead of shooting it down or jamming it--certain 3 letter agencies might confuse it into flying towards France. I wonder then how the cheese eaters would respond? Quote Link to comment
+Team Shibby Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 I got this email the other day, some may have seen it others may not. But read it to the end! :A Marines Letter Home: Dear Dad: A funny thing happened to me yesterday at Camp Bondsteel (Bosnia): A French army officer walked up to me in the PX, and told me he thought we (Americans) were a bunch of cowboys and were going to provoke a war in Iraq. He said if such a thing happens, we wouldn't be able to count on the support of France. I told him that it didn't surprise me. Since we had come to France's rescue in World War I, World War II, Vietnam, and the Cold War, their ingratitude and jealousy was due to surface [again] at some point in the near future anyway. I also told him that is why France is a third-rate military power with a socialist economy and a bunch of pansies for soldiers. I additionally told him that America, being a nation of deeds and action, not words, would do whatever it had to do, and France's support, if it ever came, was only for show anyway. Just like in ALL NATO exercises, the US would shoulder 85% of the burden, and provide 85% of the support, as evidenced by the fact that this French officer was shopping in the American PX, and not the other way around. He began to get belligerent at that point, and I told him if he would like to, I would meet him outside in front of the Burger King and whip his *** in front of the entire Multinational Brigade East, thus demonstrating that even the smallest American had more fight in him than the average Frenchman. He called me a barbarian cowboy and walked away in a huff. With friends like these, who needs enemies? Dad, tell Mom I love her, Your loving daughter, Mary Beth Johnson Lt Col., USMC TEAM SHIBBY!!!! Krs, Kar & Na Quote Link to comment
+-=(GEO)=- Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 in Iraq, we would not be having another war against the same enemy. Oh, btw, I'm French Quote Link to comment
+Justin Sane Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Wherever I go, I'll take my GPSr. I'm in the military. It weighs little, and who knows, it may actually help us someday. It's my companion, should I ever 'ship out'. We evolve. The data is in the strata. Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 The French jamming GPS signls reminds me of a similar situation a few years ago during an air show in France. The various contries were competing for buyers of their planes. One of the Russian planes (I don't recall if it was a fighter or high tech commercial type), wound up crashing due to problems that was later intimated casued by the French jamming air control or some other signals as the plane was being flown through complicated menuevers close to the ground. Of course the French denied they were involved. Alan Quote Link to comment
+Breaktrack Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 quote:Originally posted by -=(GEO)=-:in Iraq, we would not be having another war against the same enemy. Oh, btw, I'm French http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/82972_1100.jpg Sooooo, what you are saying is the U. N. (under who's auspices we went in the first time, and under their mandate) didn't give us the authority last time to "to the job right". But, we should go BACK to the same U. N. and see if they will sanction our actions this time? I'm so confused..... and I'm not even French!!!! "Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life. Quote Link to comment
+georgeandmary Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Looks like the Iraqies leaned much from the french. http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/03/12/sprj.irq.iraq.secret.surrender/ george Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more. Quote Link to comment
+-=(GEO)=- Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 That's about it. Beware of generalizations too... Quote Link to comment
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