Cachepolice...

[+georgeandmary]

I got some interesting info from the cache police. That's actually the account name the email was from 'cachepolice'.

 

Check this out.

 

and this was submitted for a locatinless photo.

 

I already deleted the log of the finder. So don't bother trying to look up who it was.

 

Has anyone else been getting cachepolice email?

 

I actually got two emails from the police. I deleted the other similar log on a different Locationless before I saved the fake photo.

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

[+EraSeek]

Yup. The wave pattern is exactly the same. Can't happen twice.

 

[Jeremy]

The next photo will have the tourist from the WTC, yes?

 

And what is the point of it all? Are we giving a prize for the most locationless cache finds?

 

Oy.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

[+briansnat]

Hey, maybe the bottom photo was real and the one with the copyright info was faked.

 

"Life is a daring adventure, or it is nothing" - Helen Keller

[+Team Piggy]

People must realise they are only cheating themselves.

S A D !

The cachepolice contacted us too, though we had already deleted the mentioned users log on our "suspension bridges" locationless previously.

I remember the original post too, I queried the bridge photo as it didnt really meet the criteria set.

The user was "adamant" it met our criteria because 'he was an engineer" ! and challenged anyone legally to prove it did not meet our set criteria.

Now it seems it was a fake all along.

 

Found the "hand" on a few other finds of this cacher too.

Do I look familiar ??

 

It's only a game, ## ########....I too will hide your name to save you the embarrasment.

 

[This message was edited by Team Piggy on August 27, 2002 at 04:55 AM.]

[+brdad]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrianSnat:

Hey, maybe the bottom photo was real and the one with the copyright info was faked.

---

 

Despite the hand/GPS section of the picture looking quite different at closeup than the rest of the pic, I am always suspicious. But no luck this time, a seach of the images at Hawaii Web proved that theory wrong. Sea Arch At Marriot

 

Truly Pathetic that someone would take the time to do that...

 

I understand your not wanting to post the finders name here, but I'd be tempted to check the rest of this users finds, and if such photos exist then email the owner of the cache. I think I would want to know. At least email them this thread, and let them decide.

 

Me Fail English? That's Unpossible!

 

[This message was edited by brdad on August 27, 2002 at 05:28 AM.]

 

[This message was edited by brdad on August 27, 2002 at 05:30 AM.]

[+Team Piggy]

I deleted the bridge photo that was submitted, the cache police supplied the actual webpage that it was taken from to me.

I remember it from memory, but still checked a lot further before actually posting above.

i did check the users finds, and too was saddened that cheating does happen..

 

I give ## ######## one thing, he's not too bad at photoshop !

What i am wondering is where the hell do the cachepolice come up with all the info !!

It's only a game guys !

[Rigour]

Maybe his definition of "virtual finding" a virtual cache means you just simulate having been there.

[+georgeandmary]

The thing is, I often used 'just the hand' photos for locationless because I'm by myself. Now I'm tempted to change the requirements to disalow 'the hand'.

 

Now the cachepolice have to be doing a lot of web research to find all the real photos of these fakes. What got them started?

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

[+JaimeeG]

Is that not self-explanatory???? They have WAYYYYYYYYY too much time on their hands!

 

Has anyone stopped to think that maybe this person KNOWS full well that they are going to get "busted" so they do it just to yank some chains and get some interesting forum talk??? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

Jaimee

 

Before criticizing others, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do the criticizing, you will have their shoes AND be a mile away!

[Anton]

I, too, got an email from cachepolice asking me to delete a log from a cheater who used a fake confirmation photo to log a find for my Observatory Quest locationless geocache.

 

Observatory Quest - MrGigabyte log on July 3

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=27254

 

And what about his logs for one of my other locationless caches?

 

Historic Forts - MrGigabyte log on June 28

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=21378

 

I'm no digital photo forgery expert (and don't want to be), so I was shocked and dismayed, to put it mildly. I have traded email with some people at GC.com about this fake photo, and was advised to contact the player whose photo is in question, and ask for an explanation.

 

Perhaps I should just delete it now, and ask questions afterwards. I am still wondering who this cachepolice person (persons?) really is, how many other players may be cheating, and how many they have caught in the act.

 

Anton

 

Anton - N2RUD

Syracuse, NY

[+fizzymagic]

It's pretty clear that this guy has been faking locationless caches for some time. My guess is that cachepolice figured it out and is emailing the owners of all the other locationless caches he logged to let them know.

 

As for actually finding the evidence; that probably isn't as hard as you might think. Since the cheater in question appears to copy-and-paste text from the pages containing the photos he steals, all that cachepolice have to do is a Google search on the text of his logs. I tried this on the observatory log mentioned above and found the original in about 2 minutes. He had at least done a mirror image of that one before posting it.

 

I firmly believe that the best way to prevent this behavior is to expose it to ridicule. Why is everyone trying to save this guy from embarrassment?

[+ZachNLiam]

Personally (if I can get off topic a little) I think Locationless caches should be THEIR OWN count, like benchmarks are.

 

Virtuals are different, because you have to go to a specific set of coordinates, like a traditional cache, and somehow proove you were there (usually with some strange question to answer).

 

Locationless caches DON'T EVEN REQUIRE A GPS UNIT! If you want "coordinates" on a locationless you can get the numbers from a MAP!

 

I really wish this would happen. Then they would be their own count, like benchmarks, and true points defined by coordinates would be the only caches counted (virtuals, traditional, anything that requires a gps and a point in space).

 

My $0.02.

[+Markwell]

Interesting.

 

The one here matches this photo, except that the images are reversed. I found that phot with about 5-10 minutes of searching.

 

I am disappointed that the cacher's name was mentioned in this thread.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

[+ZachNLiam]

Was it edited? I haven't seen the name of the "offender" on any of the threads I've seen...

[+MartyFouts]

quote:

---

Originally posted by georgeandmary:

The thing is, I often used 'just the hand' photos for locationless because I'm by myself. Now I'm tempted to change the requirements to disalow 'the hand'.

 

Now the cachepolice have to be doing a lot of web research to find all the real photos of these fakes. What got them started?

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

http://img.Groundspeak.com/track/5867_200.gif

---

 

I cache alone almost always, and so often use "the hand". I'd rather that you didn't punish the vast majority of good geocachers just because there's someone out there cheating themselves by faking photos.

[+Criminal]

_________________________________________

The one here matches this photo, except that the images are reversed. I found that phot with about 5-10 minutes of searching.

_________________________________________

 

That’s incredible, no respect for the cacher but his computer skills are impressive. I can’t figure out how he got the tree branches to be in front of him.

 

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

[+sbell111]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ZachNLiam:

Personally (if I can get off topic a little) I think Locationless caches should be THEIR OWN count, like benchmarks are.

 

Virtuals are different, because you have to go to a specific set of coordinates, like a traditional cache, and somehow proove you were there (usually with some strange question to answer).

---

 

Don't think that this is just a locationless issue. If someone routinely cheats on locationless ones, you better believe that they are fudging on other types also.

 

As for the rest of your post, its been discussed many times.

[+ZachNLiam]

What he's doing with Photoshop (or Fireworks or whatever he's using) is not hard at all. I could show you how to make objects appear in front of you and EVEN CAST SHADOWS on yourself in about five minutes. It's not difficult at all.

 

Anyway, sorry about the name post. I see it now. The funny thing, to get off topic once again, is he "seems" like a pretty serious cacher. He's even involved in a business selling cache-related items. Doesn't he think it would be detrimental to his business to do such a strange thing? I say "strange" because I don't think it's bad or anything, just a slap in the face to cachers who are proud of their numbers.

 

I'm very curious to see if this person posts any response to any of this. He's obviously emailed back to people who have "caught" him, and he's posted before.... Wonder what he's thinking.

[pipedreamer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Criminal:

_________________________________________

The one here matches this photo, except that the images are reversed. I found that phot with about 5-10 minutes of searching.

_________________________________________

 

That’s incredible, no respect for the cacher but his computer skills are impressive. I can’t figure out how he got the tree branches to be in front of him.

---

Actually his skills are poor, the shadows give him away. In the photo, the shadow of the cacher's hand on his pants falls almost directly behind the hand, meaning the sun was almost directly behind the photographer. Whereas the sun is way off to the side of the observatory, as proven by the fact that an entire side of the building is in shade.

[+sbell111]

I took a look at his post on my 'For the Love of the Game' cache. I can't tell whether the pic is a forgery, so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that it is a good find.

[+Fattuhr]

I have to agree with ZachandLiam about the whole thing. I think that Locationless should be a separate count just like the Benchmarks. I've done my share of them and if my count goes down by a couple of dozen so be it. I enjoy going out and finding caches. Even the virtuals, and the locationless. I do it for the fun of it, and getting out and getting some exercise, not to see my numbers go up. Yeah I like to get to the next level (100 next 200). I wish they would move the locationless to a separate count, because I think this goes on alot more than people realize.

 

My wife says put a coordinate on it and I'll find it.

[+georgeandmary]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Criminal:

_________________________________________

The one here matches this photo, except that the images are reversed. I found that phot with about 5-10 minutes of searching.

_________________________________________

 

That’s incredible, no respect for the cacher but his computer skills are impressive. I can’t figure out how he got the tree branches to be in front of him.

 

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

---

 

The shadows give that one away pretty quickly. If you look at the origninal photo, it doesn't even have the the branches in the corner. He just added them.

 

The hand photos were easier to fake, less in the way of shadows to deal with.

 

What I like, though, was the way he blurred the hand in the arch photo. Adds a depth of field aspect to the photo. I thought that was creative.

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

[Dinoprophet]

quote:

---

That’s incredible, no respect for the cacher but his computer skills are impressive. I can’t figure out how he got the tree branches to be in front of him.

---

 

Those branches aren't in the photo that Markwell found. Probably pasted in from another source. In fact, if you look closely, the branches in front of his knees appear to be the same as the ones in the upper right corner of the picture. Note the three-"pronged" branch with a longer branch just below it (or above it, in the upper corner). Those are impressive PS skills.

 

[+ZachNLiam]

I did a search to see what this guy has posted about and any technical post seems to involve Magellan gps units and software, but in the picture he's holding a Garmin Legend.

 

Is it not even his HAND?!? lol

[Anton]

Locationless caches...

 

Personally, I think I'm worn out on the "ammobox in the woods" routine, both playing them and hiding them. Boxes are nice for kids and rookies. But gee-whiz, how many times do you have to do that until it gets old? 50? 100? 1000?

 

I enjoy the virtual and locationless caches from both sides of the game. It's fine with me if other players just have to find a box to have fun, but I think in the long run, the box idea will have to wear out. It may go on for awhile longer, but it can't go on forever.

 

What I think is fascinating is how players come up with new models for the game: traditional box caches, then micro-caches, then multi-caches, then virtuals, then letterbox-hybrids, then event caches, then webcam-caches, and then locationless caches. What's next?

 

I see some players are using metal-detectors now. The GPS gets you to the location, but then you hunt for the iron, like a minesweeper. It's not for everyone, but it's close enough to be considered part of the game, and gadget-lovers will want to try it.

 

We all know that a lot of geocachers are gadget lovers. Right? You betcha. Just like we now that a lot of geocachers are amateur (ham) radio operators, like me. There must be at least a dozen hams going geocaching in the greater Syracuse, New York area now. We talk to each other about our geocaching adventures while we drive to work in the morning. We can use ham radio to communicate WHILE we're geocaching, too. A 2-meter ham radio beats an FRS radio any day. Just ask a ham in your neighborhood to show you.

 

Anyway... Having a separate category for locationless caches is fine. But doing that is really about keeping track of scores, and not about having fun with a GPS. Scores don't matter. Keeping the game alive & well matters a lot more. I think the reason why the Benchmark category isnt' more popular is because Benchmarks aren't created by players - no human interest there, at least in terms of players challenging each other.

 

I wonder why Letterbxing isn't more popular? I think it's only because there's no cool gadget like a GPS to drive the interest. It's just too cerebral for the average American consumer. And... there's no box full of trinkets. Then again, letterboxing has been around since the 1800s. I wonder if geocaching will do that well?

 

Anton

 

Anton - N2RUD

Syracuse, NY

[+Criminal]

Yes, I realized the branches are not in the original but it appears you can see his pants though them. It’s probably seems elementary to some with more puter skills than me.

 

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

[Rubbertoe]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Markwell:

I _am_ disappointed that the cacher's name was mentioned in this thread.

---

 

I'm not wanting to start any flames or anything - I'm just curious... why does it disappoint you that his name was mentioned? If someone has obviously been cheating, I don't really feel bad for them if they have their name mentioned "out in the open" here.

 

Granted - it isn't a competition for most of us, and the only person he is really cheating is himself... but he is breaking the rules, and I bet there are many virtual cache "owners" who aren't happy about what he did.

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's WEBCAM >==--

[+ZachNLiam]

I agree. Also, the person that "named names" was directly affected by this person. He's referencing HIS OWN cache that was cheated on.

 

The 'offender' posted to a PUBLIC forum to this gentleman's cache page and cheated. He was discovered.

[+sbell111]

Personally, I think names should be posted when this occurs. It allows everyone to check their caches to see if the offender has cheated them.

[+geospotter]

Can I get credit for my "Area 51" find now?

 

[+unclerojelio]

quote:

---

Originally posted by geospotter:

Can I get credit for my "Area 51" find now?

 

http://www.crocker.com/~bclews/fake.jpg

---

 

... Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--

I took the one less traveled by, ...

 

unclerojelio

[+The Leprechauns]

Very interesting how our busy locationless cache hunter can hold the exact same pose in the picture for Observatory Quest and the picture for Milling Around and the picture for Beacon in the Night

 

And what an interesting wardrobe assortment!

 

And there's that darn hand again, logging the Feet Forward locationless, and the Needles of the Worldlocationless, and the Disc Golf Round-Uplocationless....

 

How does he keep it so steady?

 

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-

"Daddy, are we there yet? No, .17 to go. Are we there yet? No, .16 to go....."

[+Perfect Tommy]

 

After reviewing this thread, I recognized the name and checked his log on this locationless cache. It's not the same shot as the others he used (compare the location of the fingers) but its pretty close. I blew up the picture and the coords on the GPS match up with the coords on the cache page. This one may be real.

Clean fingernails at least.

 

[This message was edited by Perfect Tommy on August 27, 2002 at 03:36 PM.]

[+Mr. Snazz]

You guys think he's good? My storage shed is filled with various containers. I have about twenty ammo boxes, six cottage cheese containers, ten tupperware, some gallon buckets, 35mm canisters, etc.

 

I painstakingly paint and label them, and then create fake scenery using mailordered rocks, dirt, and grass, so that it appears that I've photographed a geocache!

 

Then I use my backlot hollywood soundstage to create an environment similar to what must be at the cache site (using satelite photos, descriptions from other cachers, etc) for pickup shots.

 

Muhahaha! I'm saving a fortune on gas!

 

[+georgeandmary]

It's getting funny. Some one needs to save all these photo. Put them next to Matsuko or whatever here name was.

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

[+ZachNLiam]

Maybe some bad person came up to this guy and said something like, "If you don't get 100 caches in a month, I'm going to .....(fill in bad thing here) .... to you!"

 

Anyway, he's definitely been responsible for one of the more interesting discussion threads!

 

A lot of his locationless look legitimate. But they're all tainted now because of the ones we KNOW to be fake.

 

Reputation is a tough thing to rebuild. Still, I'm VERY curious to hear what he has to say...

[+beckerbuns]

I am finding more and more that look fake. Some that don't even have pictures.

 

I have talked to this guy in chat and frankly, I'm shocked.

 

-------------------------------------

Becky Davis

San Jose, CA

Cache 'n' carry... My 4 year old!

[+CYBret]

No, really . . I took this picture this morning standing in front of the sign. It's only 4 blocks away from my house, why would I make it up?!?!?

 

Seriously, though . . this is just bizarre. I can't imagine feeling the need to fake one . . or more.

 

 

"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field.

When a man found it, he hid it again." Mt. 13:44

[+seneca]

The man in question is an ardent Geocacher who has added tremendously to caching in our area - and has unquestionably hidden some of the best caches I have found. He is an excellent source of technical information and truly loves Geocaching and has taken many selfless initiatives to improve it. I have had the opportunity of meeting him at a recent geocaching event that he organized and I found him and his wife to be very decent people. Of course, I too am shocked - WHAT WAS HE THINKING!!. I am very hopeful that he offers an explanation (and sincere apology) and that the wrath (and embarrassment) that he is exposed to by this thread does not drive him away, because that would be a real loss to our sport.

 

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!(it's a Joke, OK!)

[+Mr. Snazz]

Maybe he just has a prankster streak, and was seeing how long it would take for people to notice. That would be a lot easier for me to understand than simple fraud.

 

[+cachew nut]

Perhaps he just did it to see if he could. I keep hearing that numbers don't mean anything, perhaps he's one of those. Looks like he's just having fun and no one is getting hurt.

[+ZachNLiam]

I hope the guy doesn't go away either. That's the most shocking part of the whole deal - he seems like a great guy, and has some great finds and hides.

 

I hope he speaks up and either says it was all a joke, or just says "I'm sorry. I tried one of these in Photoshop and just got carried away." I hold no ill will toward him at all.

 

I know I've made my share of mistakes. I would hate to think what might have happened if people couldn't forgive.

[+geospotter]

Yeah, I'm hoping it's a "What took you guys so long!" kind of a joke. Perhaps HE is the Cachepolice.

[+The Leprechauns]

I agree, I hope this is a joke, as I've seen this fellow in ClayJar's chat and he has a great record of legit finds, hides and helpful advice. Note that my posting above was all in good fun, no demands for a trial. Also note that most of the links are busted as many of these fake finds are being deleted by the cache owners.

 

If this is a gag, it's comparable to the Mitsuko frenzy. But not exactly the same... the owners of these locationless caches invest a lot of time and effort into a subject they care much about, and may well feel put off by having a fake find.

 

I hope an explanation is forthcoming!

 

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-

"Daddy, are we there yet? No, .17 to go. Are we there yet? No, .16 to go....."

[+MrGigabyte]

I have just been alerted to this thread by some very disparaging emails for some fellow cachers. I would like to offer a an explanation here if I may.

 

I was aware of these photos. However, the talents of a creator of these images are considerably beyond the skills that I possess. He is a graphic artist who has growing interest in caching. He is also, a graphic artist with my firm.

 

While I am aware of these images, and take full responsibility, I was not really all that concerned at the time. The logs were made with my knowledge, but felt no harm would be done.

 

To any locationless cache owners and other cahers in general who are offended, I offer my apologies.

[Rubbertoe]

Good enough for me.

 

- Toe.

 

--==< Rubbertoe's WEBCAM >==--

[+brdad]

Fine with me too. But be aware you may be untrusted for some time by your caching peers here. And more than likely you may be subjected to some ridicule as well (I changed my avatar prior to your confession).

 

I am afraid your actions will ripple some distrust though the community for a while as well, not just to you but against all of us. Just proof one person's actions can affect the game for the rest of us.

 

But it is just game, I'd rather see you stay and earn your previous status than to leave.

 

Money doesn't grow on trees, but there is cache in the woods.

[+Runaround]

Maybe we need a "Most Outrageous Faked Pictures Cache". Then that picture of you scuba diving the Titanic, or standing on the summit of Mt. Everest with Pee Wee Herman, or rapelling from Roosevelts Mt. Rushmore nose would be appropriate.

 

Now where did I park my car???????

[+Trudy & the beast]

I don't know that the appology offered by MrGigabyte is entirely acceptable. T am still left with the nagging feeling that there are other locationless cahces logged that were faked and have not been uncovered yet. If MrGigabyte allowed one of his graphic artists to post these finds, who else was allowed to post what other finds in his name? How many of his finds are legitamate? Can I ever again give any credability to MrGigabyte? Indeed the victim here may be MrGigabyte himself.