Condoms in caches: A good/bad idea?

December 3, 2002

quote:
Somebody commented about my "handing my kid a condom" statement from earlier. No, a happy meal toy is NOT the same thing. My argument holds perfect water. Please don't decide what my reaction would be if you handed my daughter a toy, vs. if you handed her a condom. The fact that you would do neither is impressive, but trust me... There is a definite difference between the two, and more light would be shed upon that difference if someone really wanted to test the matter.

I commented on that. But my comment was directed at what you originally wrote, which was that it was cowardly of someone to put a condom in a cache when they were unwilling to hand it to your daughter directly in front of you:

quote:
I would challenge anybody who thinks it's perfectly "okay" to secretly leave a condom in a cache when nobody can see them being so "big and bold" to string a few packets around their neck and wear their "safe-sex statement" in public. Nope. Precious few "advocates" would do that. To that extent, it must take a coward to practice their sneaky "education" behind the scenes.
...

I know for a fact that there's not a cacher out here who would go up to my daugher IN FRONT OF ME and hand her a condom... Why be a sneak about it?

I wasn't commenting on what your reaction would be, I was commenting on your characterization of whomever put a condom in a cache as a coward. Again, I think it would be unwise to offer a stranger's child anything at all, including McToys, condoms, and religious tracts. I don't think it indicates cowardice on the part of a placer of any of those items. Should they have waited around the cache for the next cacher to show up?

Just to reiterate, I don't think putting condoms in a cache is a good idea. But I also don't think the placer was trying to personally insult your parenting skills either, nor were they likely trying to offer a condom to your daughter specifically.

It is a little unfortunate that you chose to characterize parents whom don't share your conservative parenting style (if I may characterize YOUR style this way based on your posts) as parents who "don't have control over their children's lives" and who "run around with condoms and make a laughing matter out of them." Their are many different types of parents and many different types of children, and therefore there are a wide variety of parenting styles that work. There is more than one monolithic Right Way.

--

"I looked for it and I found it

Miles Standish proud:

Congratulate me" --R.E.M.

December 4, 2002

It's darn funny to note what some people "take personal offense" to, while ignoring their own rudeness in imposing a condom on other people's children. Again, leaving children a toy is not the same as leaving them a condom. Giving my child a "mcToy" is not even remotely the same as giving them a condom. I'm sorry... but are condoms sold in the toy aisle? Nope. Can you avoid this section with your kids? Absolutely. If someone does not feel they can keep their kids from finding out about the birds and the bees, and they find it offensive for me to note that I can, then so be it. I didn't say what one of you is or is not capable of as a parent - just what I was capable of as a parent. This was in response to the wisdom somebody offered in what I "couldn't keep from my children." That said, I fail to see where I insinuated any member here was a poor parent. I am free to say what I think is a poor parent, but until I say "Member X, you are a poor parent," then I hasten ya'll to not be so eager to feel too victimized, chaffed or offended. I think parents who resign themselves to having society dictate what their children learn, and when/where they learn it or poor parents. That's my right to believe, and unless/until I leave anti-abortion leaflets damning those who kill babies (now that hurts, don't it?) then I have done nothing other than voice an opinion. Again, when I served in the military, it was to uphold and protect that right. Hey, how would you like it if I said, "Gee, Mr. Geocacher, that information is available at any ultra right-wing gathering of Christian fundamentalists, so don't harp so much on finding it in an ammo box...." Now, I think then YOUmight be offended. Would your same argument be respected if it was you who was being undermined? I think not, and I think you don't either... which is why in these instances it is most easy and convenient to sniff personal "offenses" and excuse oneself from further debating the real issue.

I am as at odds with "pro-life" statements as I am with "pro-choice" statements, or "have sex, but keep protected" statements. I would leave neither in a cache because contrary to offending other parents (which ironically some of you have no problem doing yourselves, even as you blow your own "foul" whistles) I think I have enough common sense to know what is appropriate to be left in a geocache.

I'm sure intellects from either side of the coin could sit over coffee and debate the propriety of almost any item found in a cache, if nothing else out of sheer boredom and anything better to do with their time... But hey, that's still their time, and that's fine. But I'm from a school that still knows what a bit of non-contoversial common sense is when it comes to what's proper/not proper to leave for someone else's child to find. I would not leave propoganda from any medium, and while there are so many cheap toys to be had, I don't think anybody else needs be so restricted in their creativity, either. I don't think anybody would argue over a bag of erasers, a small toy, foreign coin, "mcToy," etc.

Now, I'M not the one who brought up the "purpose" of leaving a condom in a cache, so if anybody wants to argue my rebuttal, first go scold the person(s) responsible for stating it was no harm and that I "couldn't keep it from my kids, anyway." When somebody decided to tell me what my kids should know, and that it was "everywhere," I suppose I took offense to being "stereotyped" as being an ineffective parent. (not really, I don't get offended at "stereotypes." It's just fun sometimes to sound the "shocked-in-horror-I'm-so-offended response" to an argument!)

Now, if we all can agree that condoms are inappropriate no matter what the reason (I don't care if you would leave them, but don't because of the "cold") then we really are not at odds over whether or not they are "appropriate." We think they are not, albeit some of us have different reasons. That's fine. I don't care why you don't as long as you don't, as the saying goes. And you can rest assured that this crazy nut is not conspiring to leave anything educational that might upset the balance of things in anyone else's household, either.

Grandmaster Cache

December 4, 2002

quote:
I am not so naive as to think that you can keep children from finding out about things by hiding them or pretending they don't exist.

Time and a place, my friend. It has nothing to do with "hiding or pretending," it has everything to do with a time and a place for proper education and discussion. I'm happy to say I have children old enough to open a "surprise" yet not old enough to be worried about bodily-fluid retaining bags. I suppose therein lies the dilemma.

There; hopefully that was a more concise, less brutal, less invasive, less insulting way of stating in a nutshell why I feel condoms are inappropriate. Now as long as nobody comes along and quips that "they'd find out anyway," I think it's fair to say that nobody should be insulted.

Grandmaster Cache

December 4, 2002

Personally I think that a person putting a condom in a cache is 1. Not trying to be helpful. 2. Not very mature. 3. Think that it is a big joke.

Any responsible person would not use a condom from a cache, and I do not think it is up to other cachers to police these caches and save stupid people from themselves.

Common sense is what should be used while caching, just like what was discussed about placing caches near water treatment plants or airports.

December 4, 2002

quote:
I think parents who resign themselves to having society dictate what their children learn, and when/where they learn it or poor parents. That's my right to believe, and unless/until I leave anti-abortion leaflets damning those who kill babies (now that hurts, don't it?) then I have done nothing other than voice an opinion.

I think there's a time and a place for everything. Voicing your opinions on what makes a good parent would be entirely appropriate for a parenting forum, or perhaps a philosophical forum. This has not only digressed from an topic related to geocaching, but it's turned into an offensive, volatile topic that will only end up in a flame war.

We all know you're capable of keeping your kids from seeing condoms. How many people here have seen "Flowers in the Attic"? Probably many. That doesn't mean we all agree that it's right to control our offspring's lives to such a degree that they might never see a condom. Personally, if my daughter were to see a condom in a cache, I'd use it as a good excuse to have an open discussion on the topic. No big deal, another life lesson learned.

What I was offended at, was your characterization of families with broken homes, "liberal" schools, who watch network television (hopefully screened for content). Your implication that they run around flailing condoms around in an environment that encourages promiscuously sexual behavior is not only a case of unfair stereotyping, but perhaps self-righteous. That's your prerogative, but it doesn't belong in the forums.

As food for thought, when you see those babies with their young single mothers, do you teach your kids charity by having them help you knit or purchase booties, hats, etc. for children in this situation? Or do you allow these babies to remain cold, because they are offspring of a person who made one fateful mistake? I really don't want to know the answer. I just want you to think about what you're teaching your children.

Every day, you could wake up and decide that you'd like to make the world a better place.

I won't trouble the forums with any more of my philosophical drivel, because I don't think it's any more appropriately geared towards geocaching than yours.

NomadRaven

3k · December 4, 2002

Then it dwindled to a chuckle, now I just won't even read the second page and say this, I didn't vote because there was no option for "just plain stupid". I can't believe people are actually defending placing condoms in caches, kids or no kids. If you didn't purchase your condoms new yourself and they didn't come packaged in a sealed container, then don't use it, therefore it's just plain stupid to put one in a cache. If you find one, I believe you should remove it to the nearest waste receptacle, just as you would a used golf ball or bottle cap you'd find in a cache. It takes up valuable cache space for an item worth nothing. The interior of a cache is valuable real estate for real cache items, let's not waste it on trash, or trashy items. Stop and think about it. Sheesh!

Cache you later,

Planet

Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right, But Three Lefts Do.

December 4, 2002

...for a forum poll to be conducted without people feeling compelled to editorialize votes (and/or respond to same)? I mean, healthy debate and educated discussion is a good thing 'n all, but when you go into a voting booth to vote for a political leader, do you write a paragraph or two beside the tick mark you place on your ballot to explain why you voted the way you did?

This forum began with a rather straight forward question which presented several (reasonably) straight forward 'possible' responses from which to vote. Many more people have voted than have contributed to the 'editorials' in this thread and, from the outset, the poll's results have been consistently conclusive ...there was never any 'grey area' in as far as this particular poll's voting has been concerned. So, if the object of this poll was to establish a general consensus based on its results, the poll has clearly served its purpose ...the rest is just 'squabbling'.

(...ooops, I just wrote an editorial !)

December 4, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Cache Canucks:
when you go into a voting booth to vote for a political leader, do you write a paragraph or two beside the tick mark you place on your ballot to explain _why_ you voted the way you did?

Well, I'm a Florida voter, so I don't use tick marks, I punch out chads. No wait, now I fill in circles like on exams in high school. No, now its on a touchscreen. I never know how I'm going to vote...

When all else fails though, and the person I voted for didn't win, I just call in the lawyers.

----

When in doubt, poke it with a stick.

December 4, 2002

Next thing you know Terrorists will be lacing condoms with some sort of permanent Novocain and placing them in the caches. I think this is an issue for the Homeland security office not

1.4k · December 4, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Nomad Raven:
I doubt that the true intentions of people who put condoms in caches are to educate children. I think, for some bizarre reason, they think they're being helpful. It's a misguided effort considering the weather conditions that these condoms are put through.

NomadRaven

I doubt most cachers who put a condom in a cache think they're being helpful. They probably just think they're being funny, or they're trying to "shock" the next finder.

For many reasons that have already been mentioned, condoms in caches is a bad idea.

December 4, 2002

Nomad, you've no right to preach to me about expressing opinions when you do the same. I find you're comments to be just as insulting, insinuating that I somehow concrete my children from society. You may choose to sit your 8 year old down and yap about condoms. That's your choice. I don't think I'm being "overly protective" to let my 8 year old enjoy 8-year old things. I'm not in a rush to ensure she's having sex by the age of 12. And you really think people leave condoms to be "helpful?" Um, I've never seen "Flowers in the Attic," but I'm thinking of a new screenplay right now: "Jaded Beyond Belief."

Cache - I'm relatively new posting on this forum, but I'm a longstanding vet on a vew marine-reef forums. I'd thought from reading the posts long before posting here that people did get far off-topic, and people did express many colourful opinions. I can go and point out several examples, if you'd like, or you can read for yourself and see that even you have posted far more "off-topic" than in this thread. Not to be argumentative, but perhaps just this one thread isn't agreeing with you, but the jist of what I've seen here is that the members participate with a wide scope of discussion.

And as far as this being a "geocaching" forum, I believe we are right on topic discussing whether or not condoms are appropriate, and why so. Forgive me, but I've yet to see a poll yet where people don't opine in addition to voting. Until everybody is straight-laced, doesn't have an opinion other than a "button push" on a poll, then I feel inclined that I can voice my opinion as well.

Again, don't be a hypocrite, Nomad. Don't spew your personal opinions immediately after telling me mine aren't appropriate. Personally, I think it's wonderful that you share condoms/sex/drugs/network tv with your child. The world needs balance, and I'm all in favour of a coin with two sides. I think it's great that you share your parenting methods regarding condoms, and I'd appreciate the same respect from you. Don't worry so much about whether or not I knit socks for babies. You've no idea of what I do, or have done in life - and I'd bet if you did you'd feel pretty red in the face. I'm sure most of those "kids" who are now parents pushing cold babies to continuation school were the farthest thing from a "flower in the attic." Think about it.

Grandmaster Cache

December 4, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by GRANDMASTER CACHE:
"...Cache - I'm relatively new posting on this forum, but I'm a _long_standing vet on a vew marine-reef forums. I'd thought from reading the posts long before posting here that people _did_ get far off-topic, and people _did_ express many colourful opinions. I can go and point out several examples, if you'd like, or you can read for yourself and see that even you have posted far more "off-topic" than in this thread. Not to be argumentative, but perhaps just this one thread isn't agreeing with you, but the jist of what I've seen here is that the members participate with a wide scope of discussion..."

I'm assuming that these comments are directed towards me. If you read my initial 30 Nov post in this forum, I'm sure that you'll be able to deduce in which direction my vote was cast on this issue. Also, if you take a look at my 2 Dec post, you'll see that I was trying to throw you a parachute during your 'Maybe it's just me' freefall ...so cool your jets. In as far as my own off-topic posts are concerned ('Herb Tarlek' et al), it doesn't take a genius to appreciate that they were a (somewhat successful) attempt to 'lighten up' a discussion that was getting waaaayyyyyy too heavy.

Based on the tone of your own numerous and rather lengthy remarks in this forum (a thread where, not only do the poll results support your position, but the majority of the posted comments would appear to as well), I'm left to believe that you're simply one of those people who enjoy hearing the 'clickity-clickity' sound of their own keyboard as they restate (...again, and again, and again) a case against which very few people are actually arguing (the logic of which escapes me).

But hey, those aren't my fingers that'll be cramping up, so fill your boots ...

December 4, 2002

If you have a topic that doesn't quite fit anywhere else, post it here.

Nothing wrong with developing a topic idea, and from what I can tell, the poster of this topic placed it precisely in the correct forum, and we are discussing (perhaps with bolder colours) the topic which is what people do on internet forums. I've always agreed it was a personal choice of people to choose to participate in a thread, or to ignore it if they are offended. I might be offended by many silly threads, and when I am I just stay out. That's so easy, if a person has a degree of self-control. This topic doesn't offend me, I feel the pros/cons should be developed. So far we have the best "pro" being an individual who thinks people leave condoms to be "helpful." Yeah, right. I'm sure that's exactly what they're thinking with a grin. Okay, who here has left a condom to be "helpful?" Step up, be heard, be counted, be proud as an "educator."

Anyway, I'm sure this thread is dying, but it has been productive in any case. I've said my piece, and I've dutifully responded when addressed (which is why I've posted so much to this thread - I respect ya'll enough to respond to your inquiries. ) Maybe some folks have seen that condoms are neither useful nor helpful in a cache. Forget us with attics full of flowers - think of all the educated 12 year-olds who know exactly what a condom is for - but alas, don't know the specifics of temperature range - because trust me, sex is wonderful and having been honestly told so by such open parents, they will definitely want to engage in said act. So, prevent an accident - and set up a condom distribution booth in front of your house while yer so bent on yer cause.

pps. For those that don't know me (which is most of you) I honestly don't have a begrudging bone in my body. My humour may not always come across as funny (indeed, it's often satirical) but I mean nobody any harm, and trust that ya'll are a good bunch of people as well. I'll assume if I really tick ya off, you'll do me the favour of a PM, and I would do the same (I've never had to, because I've never let opposing opinions bunch my panties up to the point where I lose sleep!)

This has been a "hot-button" topic, but just because something's "touch" doesn't mean we should "ignore" it, or avoid it, especially when so many are preaching "openness" and "not hiding." I would hope that those folks who think their kids should "know everything" should be equally inclined to not be sheltered from the opinions of why/why not a condom should be placed in a cache. After all, we're just be "honest" with each other, the same thing we are with our kids, right?

Somebody's hat in an avatar doesn't have much to do with geocaching, but we had a good time discussing Tilleys, eh Cache Canuck? And FWIW, I do indeed thank your country for such a wonderful product. Canada is also one of the best memories I had as a child. Vancouver, Burnaby Park, that wicked suspension bridge (I forget the name) and the totem poles are some memories I have from a period long ago.

Anyway, if we've at least raised awareness, then that's a good thing, and from what I've read, this is the forum to do so. Not like we're discussing it in the software forum.

Grandmaster Cache

December 4, 2002

Considering that many caches are in RUBBERMADE??? containers and are usually small in size I consider it a waste of space. After reading so many comments about not using something found in a caches or not I really wonder why one would be put into a cache in the first place.

Rich ()=iii=<

December 4, 2002

Hiya Cache Canucks - we posted at the same time - Nah, I wasn't refereing to Herb Tarlek, or whomever - feel free to talk about things further foreign to me... I don't get bothered by "off topic."

I didn't need a parachute. If you'll note, I was responding mainly to two people, and as long as three people are discussing an issue - why shouldn't I rebut? That's the way things work, down here. It's called two-way dialogue, and I give even the minority the benefit of a discussion. What, just because somebody like Nomad is in the few he should be ignored? Nah, that's too prejudicial for me. I think every minority has a voice that should be heard and given the respect of dialogue. I hope I never reach the level of being a "majority thus superior" being. I could see my redundancy if this were one-sided, but the last time I checked the polls it was almost one in every five geocachers that did not feel it inappropriate to leave a condom in a cache. That is what 82% means, ya know. That's cause for discussion, eh?

Yes, I do type a lot, and I do write a lot. But don't fret my cramped fingers - They make my living. I enjoy yapping with ya'll, and yes, there are always those who experience cramping themselves, and are thus familiar with the syndrome who think I must have it even worse. Thanks for the inquiry, but I'm fine. I can bang out an article that makes my posting here look like a single statement. Trust me, ya ain't got me going, yet!

If I didn't enjoy ya, and didn't respect ya, I wouldnt bother with ya. I trust the love is mutual. P.S. Did you know "your" Tilley hats are made with British brass and USA-treated cotton duck? You're welcome. Thanks for "tying up" some great material provided by yer favorite two allies!

Grandmaster Cache

December 4, 2002

Rich, agreed. Heck, a silver dollar coin takes up the same space and is "hardly" controversial at all. Plus, they only get better with time!

Grandmaster Cache

December 4, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by GRANDMASTER CACHE:
"...blah...blah...blah..."

...you really do enjoy the sound of your own voice, don't you?

December 4, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Cache Canucks:
"I'd like to thank George Bush and Tony Blair for giving us something with which to make hats and be famous"

Why, you're welcome, my friend!

Grandmaster Cache

December 4, 2002

I suggested that condoms be taken out of the caches. That seems to be the majority opinion here. My reasoning is more from a practical viewpoint than a moral viewpoint, but that's only because I think enough people out there are daft enough to use a condom found in a box in the woods.

quote:
Nomad, you've no right to preach to me about expressing opinions when you do the same.

As you'll note, I said precisely the same thing in my post.

quote:
Personally, I think it's wonderful that you share condoms/sex/drugs/network tv with your child.

Is the personal attack really necessary? I wish you'd quit that. I'm not half the beast you make me out to be, just because I share different child-raising techniques.

NomadRaven

9.1k · December 4, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by ProDocJazz:
Considering that many caches are in RUBBERMADE??? containers and are usually small in size I consider it a waste of space. After reading so many comments about not using something found in a caches or not I really wonder why one would be put into a cache in the first place.

Technically, I think the proper term for a small cache container that holds prophylactics would be... a condominium.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Next time, instead of getting married, I think I'll just find a woman I don't like and buy her a house.

December 4, 2002

Ummm... I fail to see where you were "personally attacked." Stop feeling so victimized. It's self-demoralizing.

Grandmaster Cache

December 4, 2002

quote:
by Raven: I suggested that condoms be taken out of the caches.

See, I never suggested that. What, you are the "cache police" to go around suggesting that people "remove" what you don't think should be in there? What are you, the KGB? There is a condom in the Bald Mountain cache where we signed the log. The condom is STILL there. Why? Because I would rather appeal to people's common sense and offer them reasons on why this might be a bad thing to put in a cache. But if I don't like it, I leave it alone. I then choose a forum like this (a topic I didn't start, by the way) to voice my opinion. I would rather you tell me you are offended by my treasures, rather than just sneakily "remove" them on your own moral premise.

Grandmaster Cache

December 4, 2002

Puh-lease.

quote:
See, I never suggested that. What, you are the "cache police" to go around suggesting that people "remove" what you don't think should be in there? What are you, the KGB?

No, I'm a geocacher. As far as I know, it's ok to take something and leave something. I'd feel a lot better taking a condom out so that somebody doesn't mistakenly use it and leaving something that isn't potentially harmful. That's what I'd do. You could also put a little note on it saying "warning: condoms in this cache may be subject to heat and cold, and may not protect against unwanted pregnancy." a la the U.S. Surgeon General. You could also paperclip them to a religious pamphlet, an anti-abortion pamphlet, or the Bible.

Some of these tactics would be more annoying than others.

If it weren't for the potential health hazard, I would certainly leave it. If condoms were durable and it was obviously not tampered with, I'd have no objection to having condoms in the cache. Not one. However, we live in this world, where condoms subject to heat and cold are useless.

I would, in that universe, figure that parents who didn't want their child to see a condom or other adult materials (imagine if somebody left a vibrator or drug paraphernalia?) would inspect the cache before letting their children go through it. I would figure that a creative parent would say "let me inspect the cache for spiders!" and that any 8-year-old girl wouldn't argue that they'd rather have their parents "despider" the cache.

However, this is the real world, and I don't want to see innocent, naive people who find condoms in caches get hurt, become parents, etc.

I don't think that, by doing this, I'm forcing any moral beliefs on anybody else, considering I have no problem with other people living their lives their own way. I'd also remove a bottle of rotten milk or juice from a cache, which implies that my concern is solely for the well-being of others.

Besides, I'd unabashedly log "took condom from cache, left 'item'" in the log, with a nice little note explaining my concern about the integrity of the condom, or the poison status of the juice, or whatever it is that I might remove.

I fail to see where this might be a problem.

NomadRaven

4.5k · December 4, 2002

Very tacky.

December 4, 2002

We totally agree. Condoms have no place in a cache.

Grandmaster Cache

1.4k · December 4, 2002

Condoms are trash. There's no sensible reason for leaving them. They are /unusable/ after being placed in a cache. At least golf balls can still be whacked. Moral issues aside, why leave something of NO use to /anyone/? I agree with someone's comment earlier - it's akin to leaving a wadded up burger wrapper in the cache.

The vast majority are not in favor of people leaving them as prizes. So I don't expect to find them very often (though I have, and I removed it as part of my efforts to 'trade up'). You'd be doing everyone a favor if you just traded it out (vs. just throwing it away).

I wouldn't ever be in favor of simply discarding an item that's in a cache. Trade it out and do with it as you please. If you use the condom... please post pics of your newborn here for us to see

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

December 4, 2002

I hoped this thread would spark some debate, but sheesh....

To summerize:

Most of the objections regarding putting condoms in caches center around children, weather, and trust.

So if someone put an unlubricated condom in a remote and/or difficult cache that is unlikely to be visited by children, during the more mild months weather-wise, and posted that they were the individual who placed it in the cache, would that then be acceptable?

December 4, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by GRANDMASTER CACHE:
All said and told, should we leave bloody tampons in caches, to teach our girls what to expect when they "come of age?" Isn't that a swell way to "break the ice?" I mean, it's reality, isn't it?

Yeah, very pleasant approach, however the flaw in your logic is that the condom in the wrapper is a product purchased in the department store. Neither the bloody tampon nor the used comdom are available for purchase, and to try and make that comparison is just warped. I may not like your choice of music, or your taste in movies, or take the same view of sex as you do. However, having raised four children I feel confident in speaking on the subject.

If you think you can control when and where your children learn about sexuality, it must be real dark where you have your head. Oh sure, you can try, and just not let them see anything sexual until you are ready to explain, but that just won't work. They'll hear from their friends, they'll see it in the store, whatever. I guess if you are trying to tell us that in a geocache is the ONLY place your sheltered child might see a condom, I just don't buy it.

Walk down the isle in the grocery store, department store, catch a commercial on tv, stop by your local health department, frankly they are everywhere. Unfortunately you have been brainwashed into believing they are 'bad'. The fact is, they are not a bad thing.

Personally I don't think condoms end up in geocaches because people have a plan to teach sexual education with them. They are just something else to throw in. I've thought of it many times, just hadn't stocked up at the local health department (those things are pricey).

In short, there will certainly be things that offend your. I'm offended every trip to the dadgum ATM machine at the bank by the fact that it knows my name/account balance/pin when I just insert my card, but EVERY time I have to tell it I speak english. So chances are that you are going to be offended by something. The trick is figuring out how to get past it, and being able to deal with it.

So good luck, hope you enjoy the sport, watch out for my geocaches, don't want you to be offended by a CD or book or something either.

Daron J. Wilson

December 4, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by JoeCthulhu:
I hoped this thread would spark some debate, but sheesh....

To summerize:

Most of the objections regarding putting condoms in caches center around children, weather, and trust.

So if someone put an unlubricated condom in a remote and/or difficult cache that is unlikely to be visited by children, during the more mild months weather-wise, and posted that they were the individual who placed it in the cache, would that then be acceptable?

Just because you told me you were the one who put it there, why should I trust that you didn't do anything to it, or anyone that visited the cache after you and before me.

"We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile. We are the Borg."

December 4, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by GoldKey:

Just because you told me you were the one who put it there, why should I trust that you didn't do anything to it, or anyone that visited the cache after you and before me.

OK, and assume that you knew me, and you knew that there was no way I'd tamper with it, and that no one else had visited the cache because I'd just been there 30 minutes before you'd gotten there, is it OK then?

1.4k · December 4, 2002

A new tampon might be a better comparison to a new condom.

I think there are just things that are generally accepted to /not/ belong in a cache. If caches were at a constant temp and/or you knew the condom to be as described in previous post... it might be a different story. But it's just not the case.

I think condoms are a logical part of the list of things that don't belong in a cache. My short list includes combs, hats, brushes, toothbrushes, deodorant of unknown origin. And condoms of course.

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

December 4, 2002

If something is posted or logged, at least we have the choice of going/not going. I think that's fair.

Grandmaster Cache

1.4k · December 4, 2002

Why didn't you just give it to me then? Why make me hike all the way out to a cache just to borrow a condom?

quote:
Originally posted by JoeCthulhu:

OK, and assume that you knew me, and you knew that there was no way I'd tamper with it, and that no one else had visited the cache because I'd just been there 30 minutes before you'd gotten there, is it OK then?

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Saving geocaches - one golf ball at a time.

December 4, 2002

Eeeewww... BORROW a condom???? Well, better to borrow one than to have one returned!

Grandmaster Cache

December 4, 2002

After reading this forum, I'm thinking that leaving the handcuffs with the condoms wasn't a great idea after all.

All computers wait at the same speed.

December 5, 2002

Nomad Raven - Where do you get off trying to save the world from defect condoms. If someone can use a GPS then they should have enough common sense not to use a condom they found on the street or in a cache.

There are quite a few things I believe should not be left in caches, but I learned a long time ago that I cannot control other peoples actions. Once you learn that, you will be better off.

December 5, 2002

quote:
Nomad Raven - Where do you get off trying to save the world from defect condoms. If someone can use a GPS then they should have enough common sense not to use a condom they found on the street or in a cache.

Chazman - Where do you get off telling me what I can and can't trade for from caches?

One could also say that if someone can use a GPS they should have enough common sense not to leave a condom in a cache (merely because of the effects of weather), but that's obviously not true either.

I haven't run into any condoms in caches, but if I found a suspect condom in a cache I'd prefer to take it than some dumb McDonald's toy.

quote:
There are quite a few things I believe should not be left in caches, but I learned a long time ago that I cannot control other peoples actions. Once you learn that, you will be better off.

I agree firmly, and it's actually kind of funny that you'd say that. It seems you're trying to coerce me to change my actions, while I'm merely stating what I would do.

NomadRaven

December 5, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by GRANDMASTER CACHE:

quote:
Originally posted by Cache Canucks:
"I'd like to thank George Bush and Tony Blair for giving us something with which to make hats and be famous"

Why, you're welcome, my friend!

Grandmaster Cache

Thank you for the offer of your friendship followed by the mendacious grins, but I'll pass...

December 5, 2002

Originally posted by Nomad Raven:

Chazman - Where do _you_ get off telling me what I can and can't trade for from caches?

One could also say that if someone can use a GPS they should have enough common sense not to leave a condom in a cache (merely because of the effects of weather), but that's obviously not true either.

I don't believe I was telling you what you can or cannot do. I was merely asking you why you thought you could save the world, or at least irresponsible people USING condoms from caches.

Also I did not say "they should have enough common sense not to leave a condom in a cache"

I said "enough common sense not to "USE" the condom." Once I again I have no control over what people leave or take from a cache, that includes YOU.

December 5, 2002

Something useful, something useless

something funny something valuable theres lots of ways to go... but a condom?????

is that something I want my 12 year old daughter

finding? Just think what she would be telling her friends at school.... Just think what my Xwife would say when she found it in my daughters pocket...Gee where did you get this???? Oh I got it with daddy..... Then I wonder exactly

what the judge would say when the X hauled

me back into court.....well your honor

I didn't know there would be condoms in there....

gee what a waste of cache space

what a waste of computer space.

what a waste of my time writing this....

December 5, 2002

This kind of scares me that kids are rooting around in the cache without any adults watching. Do you let your kids go into the knife drawer or gun case at home without supervising them???

I personally would not let a kid reach into something that strangers have placed in the woods.

Read what Seadog had to say in his Dec. 1st log at the cache.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=44971

December 5, 2002

quote:
I don't believe I was telling you what you can or cannot do. I was merely asking you why you thought you could save the world, or at least irresponsible people USING condoms from caches.

I don't think I can save the world, but I like to help it out whenever I get the opportunity. Is that really so horrible?

quote:
Also I did not say "they should have enough common sense not to leave a condom in a cache"

I said "enough common sense not to "USE" the condom." Once I again I have no control over what people leave or take from a cache, that includes YOU.

I know what you said. I'm the one who postulated that if it could be assumed that they have enough common sense not to use a condom left in a cache, that this assumption could be extended to assume that they have enough common sense not to leave a condom in a cache, since nobody with any common sense would use it anyway.

However, condoms are sometimes left in caches, so I would postulate that they sometimes get used.

I'm still not sure why you're arguing with me?

NomadRaven

December 5, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Nomad Raven:

I'm still not sure why you're arguing with me?

NomadRaven

I'm not arguing with you, I am merely discussing the thread topic. You came off that it was a very evil thing to leave condoms in a cache. It is not a preferred item to leave, but you cannot control what people leave and if you are eradicating condoms from all the caches you find, that sounds more like a mission and not a fun game like it should be.

Lighten up, have fun don't let your kids dive into a box that a stranger has placed in the woods.

Sorry if I offended you.

[This message was edited by Chazman007 on December 05, 2002 at 12:51 PM.]

December 5, 2002

quote:
You came off that it was a very evil thing to leave condoms in a cache. It is not a preferred item to leave, but you cannot control what people leave and if you are eradicating condoms from all the caches you find, that sounds more like a mission and not a fun game like it should be.

I don't think it's evil, I believe I said it was misguided, well-intentioned, but a poor judgment call.

It's not my mission to search out caches containing condoms, and I have no idea where you got that idea. In fact, I'm one of the people that suggested that parents look through the caches before their kids look into them anyway.

I think you seriously have me confused with one of the other posters. I'm as light as I need to be, but I won't take credit for somebody else's fanatacism.

NR

December 5, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by trippy1976:
A new tampon might be a better comparison to a new condom.

I think the condom/tampon comparison isn't very appropriate. Sure, both are items that many people get uncomfortable discussing. But, as far as I know, few if any people think that use of tampons is morally wrong, at least here in north america. However, plenty of people (many Catholics, for example) think that the (intended sexual) use of a condom is morally wrong.

The potential danger of using a found condom aside, I think we as cachers should not leave items that are likely to be upsetting to so many people. Sure, someone might be offended by almost anything you could leave in a cache but I think the probability of condoms offending is high enough that we ought to skip them.

If the 'cachers who want to leave unlubed condoms as a potential water vessel for survival scenarios, I suggest leaving a package of water treatment tablets instead.

I guess that's another vote against condoms in caches.

December 5, 2002

Oooohhh.... I think calling someone a "fanatic" is so so close to being a "personal attack" and there are those here who have an expressed desire to not have their feelings hurt or insulted, so let not the crier cast a stone.

Grandmaster Cache

December 5, 2002

Another stupid poll!

December 5, 2002

quote:
I think calling someone a "fanatic" is so so close to being a "personal attack" and there are those here who have an expressed desire to not have their feelings hurt or insulted, so let not the crier cast a stone.

Attacking the ism, not the person.

December 5, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Chazman007:
This kind of scares me that kids are rooting around in the cache without any adults watching. Do you let your kids go into the knife drawer or gun case at home without supervising them???

Back when we had kids (before they became adults and left home), yes--I would let them go into the knife drawer. I'd also let them use the oven, stove, blender, toaster, tea kettle, electric mixer, power sander, electric drill, circular saw, hot water faucet, washer, dryer, hammer, screw drivers, tire iron, et alia.

How else can you get work out of kids if they can't use the tools?

(granted, I did make certain they knew how to use these things)

--

wcgreen

Wendy Chatley Green

December 5, 2002

I'm glad there's an understanding that nobody was "personally" attacked or "stereotyped." We're all on the same page talking about "isms" and "types" of parents.

Of course, I'd probably not whine if somebody personally called me a fanatic, because when it comes to raising my kids, I suppose I am fanatical about it, and bear no shame for it. I understand stereotypes are very real, and that all/most of us fit some profile or another. I only scream if the shoe doesn't fit.

Grandmaster Cache

Condoms in caches: A good/bad idea?

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