Jump to content

Dan Miller's server


Recommended Posts

quote:
I noticed a week ago or so that it was about a month outdated... Showed me 20 caches fewer than I'd found...
If you log (or logged) finds when GC.com was busy, sometimes Dan's page wouldn't pick them up, and you would have to go to the "Missing Logs" link to update your stats. I had to do so a few times, and the stats were current for me as of last Friday, when I last checked it.

 

"Wear a smile and have friends; wear a scowl and have wrinkles. What do we live for if not to make the world less difficult for each other?"--George Eliot

 

MnGCA-Button.gif

Link to comment

Um, so it seems a campaign to promote stats here would be in order.

 

I imagine Dan's service sucked bandwith here, which would be eliminated if done locally, and since Dan's is now gone...ok, so there's no bandwith sucking presently but would be if another was started up.

 

Enjoy,

 

Randy

 

PS: After all, it's not like Jeremy's to-do list isn't long enough already!

Link to comment

I know Dan had the statement on his site forever concerning wanting someone to take it over, but do we really know it is gone forever? I noticed that he has not signed onto geocaching.com since last Thursday. Maybe he is on vacation and the site took the opportunity to crash. I hope. I hope. icon_smile.gif

 

Alchemist2000

 

texasgeocaching_sm.gif

Link to comment

I agree about promoting stats. It may not be about numbers to some, but to others it is. If nothing else it's very interesting. I'm not sure how breaking down the finds into categories made it less about numbers. I also noticed there is a list of top 10 travel bugs - but not caches or cachers. That seems a bit contradictory. I love stats, and so do a lot of cachers I know who don't use the forums.

 

Hopefully alchemist2000's theory about Dan being gone while the server died is correct. You could always do a 'whois' or whatever the command is (I think register.com will do it for you) to find a contact email address for him and email and ask.

 

I hope that one day somebody will take over that project, but it doesn't seem likely.

 

southdeltan

 

"Man can counterfeit everything except silence". - William Faulkner

Link to comment

I emailed Dan about the site 6 weeks ago or so about taking over the site and he sent me some info ... I can tell you it's a thankless, time consuming task that receives no official support from gc.com ...

 

After looking at what Dan sent me, I decided I didn't have the time to invest in taking it over (or even to meaningfully help in it's current state) ... if it's gone, it's ok to be sad, but don't be mad at Dan ... he's done a lot of work with no return and at some point it gets to be no fun.

Link to comment

Can someone tell me if there is another page that keeps track and ranks everyone?

 

I do hope that Dan's page comes back up some how. I'm currently number two ranked in the state of WV, and I'm on the heels of number 1. I'm doing what I can to get to that spot.

 

I need to see the ranks though.

 

If you get lost while geocaching, don't worry. Someone else will get lost while geocaching and find you. icon_wink.gif

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by southdeltan:

I also noticed there is a list of top 10 travel bugs - but not caches or cachers. That seems a bit contradictory.


 

TB's help fund the site, so it's logical to promote them.

 

Having cacher stats promotes the hobby as a competition, which changes the "flavor". W/Dan's page, those who wanted to compete had to jump through an extra hoop to make it that. I do agree that if the stats were readily accessible here, you'll see more in it for the numbers and lotsa' competitive forum msgs.

 

I'd set it up as a link somewhere, rather than predominantly featured.

 

Randy

 

PS: Evidently it's permanently down, see here.

Link to comment

Maybe whoever takes it over can bring it up to date a little bit and have it include some of the features that are being asked for on this site. That way they wouldn't be asked for all of the time. Wish I had the know how to do this, but I certainly would be grateful to anyone who would undertake this task.

Link to comment

The domain still exists, so presumably his dan@insidecorner.com address still works.

 

With respect to someone else running it ... it'll take some effort and Dan had been looking for someone to do just that for some time.

 

As I said, I took a quick look at it and it's ugly (not a reflection on Dan, just the process)... basically the site was updated by screen-scraping the 'latest logs' page at frequent intervals ... sometimes that refresh wasn't fast enough and would cause logs to be missed which necessitated the whole 'my log is missing' function ...

 

Just my $0.02 this whole thing should be integrated into gc.com -OR- be officially sanctioned with a reliable data feed from gc.com to the operator of the stats site.

 

On an unrelated, but certainly applicable note, I'd bet that stat site sucked big bandwidth, so whoever contemplates taking it on would need to consider that as well.

 

Also, my understanding of the system is that it's MySQL, Perl and Java -- MySQL is the datastore, Perl runs the pages and Java does the crawling/scraping off gc.com

Link to comment

Hey.

 

Yes, the site is down, and as linked earlier in this thread, it's not coming back. Mike Haboustak (the person linked in the other thread) is a friend of mine and it's his server (more or less).

 

So... what now? Dunno. I believe Mike burnt a CD of the old hard drive, so the data exists out there somewhere. Though I'm sure the database could be organized better, and I'm sure that there are numerous errors in it. It might even be better/easier to start from scratch.

 

Which brings me to the next dilemma. I've had various offers of help / taking it over, with various degrees of enthusiasm, and don't know how to respond. I want to make sure that whoever takes it over has the know-how to do it, and the desire to keep doing it. The worst case would be for me to hand it off to someone, and then have that person fade into oblivion.

 

I think that the best idea is geocaching.com to do it, but as others have pointed out, I'm not holding my breath. Next best would be some way for geocaching.com to allow others to interface their data. I had heard from Elias a while back that he was planning on implementing this at some opint, but have not heard further.

 

I don't want stats to go away - I'd like *someone* to take it and go with it. Wanting stats was the whole reason I built the site in the first place nearly 2 years ago. I just know that someone can't be me.

 

dan.

regoarrarr

Link to comment

Thanks for clarifying things Dan. I'm glad you were able to jump in.

 

I have a question/suggestion. Would it be possible to separate getting the database back up and running on some other server from the job of taking over the the database and fixing bugs and adding features?

 

I can ask the question another way -- how much time were you spending over the last 6 months just keeping the database up and running? Assuming someone just takes over the job of getting the database back online -- no bug fixing no new features can you help us understand how much work that would be. Personally, I liked what was already there and I would like to see that restored nothing more nothing less.

 

The question then of who could improve on the database, bug fixes and adding new features, could then be taken separately and we could try to determine if this is something that Groundspeak has in their plans or not.

 

GO$Rs

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by regoarrarr:

Hey.

 

Yes, the site is down, and as linked earlier in this thread, it's not coming back. Mike Haboustak (the person linked in the other thread) is a friend of mine and it's his server (more or less).

 

<<SNIP>>


 

Thanks for the info Dan. It was great while it lasted. I'll miss the ability to check the local logs list. It was a great way to keep up to date on what's going on in the area.

 

Thanks again for you work.

 

_________________________________________________________________________

Nobody can be so amusingly arrogant as a young man who has just discovered an old idea and thinks it is his own.

Sydney J. Harris

Link to comment

I would also like to thank Dan for his hard work in building and maintaining the stats site. When I discovered it a few months after I began geocaching, the stats site opened my eyes to just how much activity was going on. It helped inspire me to become a SERIOUS cacher!

 

For awhile it was fun to watch my rankings creep up in the Pittsburgh city list and the Pennsylvania state list. I don't care anymore, because I've "topped out." (With CCCooper and Quest Master living in Pennsylvania, there is no way I'll ever get from #3 in the State to #1, and this is a good thing.) But after I hit that point, what I enjoyed most about the stats site was the ability to scroll through the latest logs list, to see what caches were visited by my friends, by newbies, by visitors to the area, etc.

 

I posted this suggestion in another thread, but for those who enjoy reading the latest logs in their area, there is a readily available substitute. Set up a pocket query to run on Monday night for your home caching area. Open the GPX file in Watcher. Display the "last found" column and sort the list of caches so that the ones with the recent finds show up at the top of the list. Click 'em and read the logs. It's way faster than doing the same thing on a dialup internet connection!

 

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Next time, instead of getting married, I think I'll just find a woman I don't like and buy her a house.

Link to comment

I wish I had the knowledge and ability to take over the site. I'd do it in a second. Come on, isn't there someone out there who can do this? Heck, there are thousands of people registered on this site, many of whom do have the ability to take it over.

 

I know Jeremy has said repeatedly, that GC.COM has no interest in keeping up a stat site, because it's not the point of this website. I agree with him to a degree, but if only he'd alllow a trusted 3rd party to access the data to create a robust stats website, that would be a great compromise. I saw one regional geocaching assn (was it Texas? AZ?) that has a very nice stats site with cool graphs and a lot of other neat stuff.

 

I'd be willing to help. I'm sure I could gain a lot of skills by doing so, but at this point, I simply don't have the necessaries to design and run such a site.

 

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

Link to comment

I'll jump on that bandwagon. The site has brought a lot of enjoyment to many of the Oklahoma geocachers. In fact I'll go right out and say that because of Dan's work I have made many new friends and caching partners. All in the spirit of good clean fun and competition. The rankings have been an ever changing thing here.

 

We have had a lot of fun with it. I don't know of a single meeting or cache event that goes by where the leaderboard topic isn't discussed. I don't know of a single person that has been offended by it. If so, I'd hope they would tell me. It seems that every new person I meet says, "yea I saw you on the leaderboard". I always encourage others and never treat anyone with a few finds any less than someone on the top.

 

Not to mention it's going to be hard to give out my State Champion award at the Christmas party this year if I don't know whose on top. icon_biggrin.gif

 

-beatnik-

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

thousands of people registered on this site, many of whom do have the ability to take it over.


Oh, I'm quite certain there are a couple dozen that could do it and have the resources - human, computer, or both - to do it well.

 

The problem (at least with the ones I've spoken with) is the relationship with the mothership. The House is openly hostile to A) statistics of any kind :D any redistribution of data they don't control C) page scrapers in general and D) any facilities to allow any of those things to happen.

 

If the site would allow SQL access to a low number of "partner" sites that could tier the data off and slice it and dice it, I think several people would be all over that. It doesn't have to be realtime; daily snapshots would suffice for most tasks - pocket queries in their current form will not. But as it stands now, I suspect the current status quo of every regional geocaching group inventing their own scrapers and hoping to escape notice will continue.

 

In the meantime, we've lost substantial functionality. Things like "recent logs by region" or "newest caches in a city" are things that Dan's site did very well that you simply can not get from this site.

Link to comment

Maybe I am hallucinating, but I was under the impression that part of the reason for the migration to the .NET platform was to be able to provide Web services (i.e. database access) to others. If not, then I am perplexed by the decision to take the path that the House (as you put it) did, since, as far as I can tell, that is mainly what the .NET architecture is for.

 

Clearly, page-scraping is going on now. Also evident (in my opinion) are a number of changes to the site intended to make page-scraping harder. My guess is that the changes won't deter much of the page-scraping, but will make it less efficient, putting an additional load on the House servers.

 

As a result, it seems to me that there is going to have to be a way for a few people to obtain information from the site automatically. If geocaching.com doesn't do it, there is likely to be significant dissatisfaction with the service being provided, and the potential for a loss of revenue if people do not renew memberships.

 

What I find a little troubling is the complete lack of discussion of these issues.

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by fizzymagic:

Maybe I am hallucinating, but I was under the impression that part of the reason for the migration to the .NET platform was to be able to provide Web services (i.e. database access) to others. If not, then I am perplexed by the decision to take the path that the House (as you put it) did, since, as far as I can tell, that is mainly what the .NET architecture is for.


 

What move to dot net are you talking about? I see no move by geocaching.com to a dot net. In fact, as this is a semi-comercial site, there can be NO move to a dot net....

 

Maybe I am missing somthing here, if so, please let me know.

 

Zahrim....

 

"There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night.

Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."

Link to comment

icon_frown.gif I now have to change my 'home page'.

 

I could care less about the "WHOLE world" stats. The only stats that matter to me are the state stats.

 

Stats may not be the 'end all' or the 'thing' for many people, but they mean something to a LOT of people...

 

After looking at the Oklahoma stats page, I found that I was close to being on the "FRONT page", and that was the fact that motivated me to cache just a bit more....

 

After I ended up on the front page (Top 25), I was then motivated more to crack the top ten, and as #6 atm, I am working on cracking #5.... ETC.............

 

SO... Stats are a GOOD thing. OK, some people don't like them, fine, they don't have to look at them. The rest of us WANT STATS. Even if it's only State Level. Heck, State Level is all I want. At 371 total finds, I can NEVER compete worldwide, But I can at the State level....

 

Zahrim....

 

"There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night.

Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."

Link to comment

I would also like to say 'THANK YOU' Dan. I have enjoyed the information that your site provided. I will now have to find a way to do it myself, or find someone in the state that has the knowledge to give me my daily fix...

 

Zahrim....

 

"There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night.

Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."

Link to comment

Mmmzzz...

 

Dan.. THANK YOU!

 

I wish you could continue on another server, with the help of others (I volunteer and I think others may share this). The stats where the best, but I know the gc.com site is still working on making it impossible for pages to be downloaded outside a (ms)browser.

 

But tell us.. what would you like (besides moneyicon_smile.gif) to continue you work??? Thousands of geocachers are depending on the side, and I must admit, it feels empty without those stats.

 

Cheers!

 

Rob...

 

[This message was edited by Badnews on August 15, 2003 at 02:52 AM.]

Link to comment

This is a perfect example of how stats helps geocaching. I don't know why so many people are against stats.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Zahrim:

icon_frown.gif I now have to change my 'home page'.

 

I could care less about the "WHOLE world" stats. The only stats that matter to me are the http://www.insidecorner.com/geocaching/stats/states.cgi?country=United%20States&state=Oklahoma.

 

Stats may not be the 'end all' or the 'thing' for many people, but they mean something to a LOT of people...

 

After looking at the Oklahoma stats page, I found that I was close to being on the "FRONT page", and that was the fact that motivated me to cache just a bit more....

 

After I ended up on the front page (Top 25), I was then motivated more to crack the top ten, and as #6 atm, I am working on cracking #5.... ETC.............

 

SO... Stats are a GOOD thing. OK, some people don't like them, fine, they don't have to look at them. The rest of us WANT STATS. Even if it's only State Level. Heck, State Level is all I want. At 371 total finds, I can NEVER compete worldwide, But I can at the State level....

 

_Zahrim....

 

"There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night.

Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."_


Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by Badnews:

Mmmzzz...

 

Dan.. THANK YOU!

 

I wish you could continue on another server, with the help of others (I volunteer and I think others may share this). The stats where the best, but I know the gc.com site is still working on making it impossible for pages to be downloaded outside a (ms)browser.

 

But tell us.. what would you like (besides moneyicon_smile.gif) to continue you work??? Thousands of geocachers are depending on the side, and I must admit, it feels empty without those stats.

 

Cheers!

 

Rob...

 

[This message was edited by Badnews on August 15, 2003 at 02:52 AM.]


 

Badnews said it all.

 

Thanks Dan for all the work.

But I hope you will continue !!

 

sjors

 

sjors en co

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by hammack:

This is a perfect example of how stats helps geocaching. I don't know why so many people are against stats.


It's not a question of a lot of people against stats. Look through this thread and you won't find a single comment against them. It all comes down to one or two key people being against stats. It doesn't matter how many people in the community in general are for it if you can't get past that hurdle.
Link to comment

Good point. Everybody in this topic is praising Dan for his hard work because they like stats. But if this was a discussion of stats in general, the anti-stats crowd would be out in force. And maybe it's just a vocal minority as you suggest.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Casey's Crew:

quote:
Originally posted by hammack:

This is a perfect example of how stats helps geocaching. I don't know why so many people are against stats.


It's not a question of a lot of people against stats. Look through this thread and you won't find a single comment against them. It all comes down to one or two key people being against stats. It doesn't matter how many people in the community in general are for it if you can't get past that hurdle.
Link to comment

Most people say it's about the hunt and don't care about stats, but I don't think many of us who knew about Dan's stat page didn't check it from time to time to see where we stood. It may have been curiosity, or part of our competetive urge.

 

Heck, competetion is a one of our primal drives as humans. We probably wouldn't have evolved as far as we did without it. Today's society is trying to downplay this with stuff like "outcome based education" and youth sports leagues that don't keep score, or standings.

 

The point of this website, however, is to be a listing service. I can see their point about not getting into the stats game. Their point is that geocaching is supposed to be fun. But competetion is also fun. I don't fault them for not hosting a stats page, but I don't see why they are so set against allowing another trusted party to mine their data so they can create a robust stats page.

 

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

Link to comment

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

 

The point of this website, however, is to be a listing service. I can see their point about not getting into the stats game.


 

But Dan's site was about more than stats; it was about filling in missing holes in functionality from the "mother ship".

 

Show me another way to get the most recent no-finds for a city in essentially realtime from geocaching.com and then let's continue the argument about "it not being about the numbers" when that's not the argument at all....it's about filling in the pieces of geocaching.com that The House didn't want to program.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...