Chandra Cache, Too Creepy?

[ikobi]

I live in Washington DC, not far from where Chandra Levy and Gary Condit lived and where Chandra's body was found. I've thought about putting up a virtual cache that had coordinates for each of the locations, but its been suggested to me that it is too ghoulish (or too soon), others, obviously, are interested. Your thoughts?

[+georgeandmary]

I live in Condit's district (never voted for him), and I don't think it's that great of an idea. As a virtual what would be the thing to see there? The police tape?

 

 

There is an actual cache in the sierra east of here, about 100 ft from the site of where they found one of the Yosemite girls killed a couple years ago. I didn't realize the cache was there until I got really close to the spot. My wife did not want to go near the area but I went ahead and found the cache.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=12539

The whole time I couldn't really get the whole idea out of my head. It's been found many times since and people seem to enjoy the cache. It's a nice spot.

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

[+RiverCacher]

Think of her spirit...

Think of her family...

 

Remember the Golden Rule.

 

 

Scott

 

Lynchburg, Virginia

[mortonfox]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ikobi:

I live in Washington DC, not far from where Chandra Levy and Gary Condit lived and where Chandra's body was found. I've thought about putting up a virtual cache that had coordinates for each of the locations, but its been suggested to me that it is too ghoulish (or too soon), others, obviously, are interested. Your thoughts?

---

 

According to a CNN report, the remains were found in Rock Creek Park. I wonder how close that spot was to the Project APE cache in that area. If I remember correctly, that cache is also in Rock Creek.

[+RAD Dad]

If it were your child murdered, would you want someone making a cache out of the site her body was found? What if it was your cousin, best friend, grand daughter, she was a real person, she has real family, there are people who have truely had their lives shattered by this experience, and I think that you would even suggest it shows what a poor excuse for a human being you are....with more in common with someone so callous as to kill another than with those of us who are decent enough to be totally offended by the very suggestion of this cache.

 

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

[+newoldstock]

quote:

---

Originally posted by RAD Dad:I think that you would even suggest it shows what a poor excuse for a human being you are....with more in common with someone so callous as to kill another than with those of us who are decent enough to be totally offended by the very suggestion of this cache.

---

 

I disagree. I think the fact the ikobi asked the geocaching community's opinion before running out and placing the cache shows a level of compassion. Face it, this is one of these topics, much like wreck chasing, that polarizes opinions. Death has captivated mankind ever since we gained the ability to fathom our own mortality and curiosity is a natural reaction to it (as is humor, anger, fear, joy, etc.). Not everyone who has visited "Ground Zero" had a friend/relative perish in the disaster, but they shouldn't be condemned for wanting to acheive a level of understanding that only place can sometimes provide. Nor should ikobi be characterized as a "poor excuse for a human being" because he/she is expressing a natural reaction. That being said, I think the cache is in bad taste because it is too close in time to the actual events. Time has a way of healing all wounds - today's crime scene could be next year's memorial.

 

*barefoot*

[+McIrish]

Time is definitely the key here.... I am a female geocacher...and I really would not be inclined to go out in that area and look for a cache....they still don't know what happened to her.

 

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."

[Walkin Stick]

The gentleman who found her remains... when asked what he was doing in such a remote part of the park indicated he was looking for 'Turtles'.

 

I'm not commenting on whether it's right/decent/appropriate to place a cache there... but if you do... I know what you can name it!

 

_____________________________________________________

 

Support your local rescue team.... Get Lost!

_____________________________________________________

[+Alan2]

Poor taste....give the family a break.

 

Alan

[+Alan2]

Rather than a cache, you would really be special if you sent a note to Mr. and Mrs. Levy expressing your sorrow at their loss.

 

Just a thought.

 

Alan

[+citrix_99301]

I respect Ikboe's poll because it shows better sense than just running out and placing the cache.

 

Yet there's something that bothers me about caches like that. I like to Geocache in beautiful places because it puts me in touch with the environment and helps me forget the stresses of work and life. Going on a ghoulish search of famous crime scenes doesn't fit well with that image of a Sunday afternoon spent hiking in the wilderness.

 

Just my thought.

[+Hawk-eye]

Definitely bad taste ... and my opinion would be even stronger if not agressive ... if that were my daughter or a member of my family. 'nuff said.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

[+Team Dralasites]

I wouldn't just assume (like some of the posters here) that ikobi went into this with bad intentions. The fact that he put up this poll rather than just placing the cache shows that he cares. Are you reading this, RadDad? I think you were a bit extreme, and you owe ikobi an apology for jumping to conclusions.

 

I like caches that bring me to picturesque places as much as the next guy. I like to take pictures, and part of the reason for geocaching for me is all of the photo opportunities that come up while on a cache.

 

It's not just that, though. I also look for unique finds where I can really bring back a unique experience. I enjoy thinking about why a cacher placed a cache at that particular place, and learn something from it.

 

If I visited ikobi's cache, I'd pay my respects, and afterwards probably read more about what happened there. It would be a wholly educational experience.

 

And as with every cache, if you don't like the idea behind it, just don't visit it. No big deal.

[+Hawk-eye]

No reflection on the poster at all ... I just know the response that it would generate in me if that was my child and someone ... anyone ... made something trival out of it. It's too fresh to be a memorial response ... now maybe years from now ... but from my perspective ... I'm not to sure of that. The same feelings are brought out when I see the media hounding families during these type of events ... reporting is necessary ... staking out house and home 24/7 is insensitive. Their efforts would be better off out investigating leads ...

 

Look ... sorry ... this is a little too close to home and again this is no reflection on the poster. In fact posting a poll and the way it's worded ... was a good way to do it ...

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

[+inceptor]

quote:

---

Alan2

Rather than a cache, you would really be special if you sent a note to Mr. and Mrs. Levy expressing your sorrow at their loss.

---

 

I agree completely!

 

quote:

---

Hawk-eye

Definitely bad taste ... and my opinion would be even stronger if not aggressive ... if that were my daughter or a member of my family. 'nuff said.

---

 

YUP!

 

quote:

---

Team Dralasites

I wouldn't just assume (like some of the posters here) that ikobi went into this with bad intentions. The fact that he put up this poll rather than just placing the cache shows that he cares. Are you reading this, RadDad? I think you were a bit extreme, and you owe ikobi an apology for jumping to conclusions.

---

 

I really don't think anyone assumed anything. You must understand that for many of us, we believe that the families feelings should be considered first and foremost. Many of us grew up in an era that when someone's loved one was killed, one did not stick a microphone in their face, follow them with TV cameras nor try to get them on the talk show circuit. To show respect for the deceased, one did not make the sight a tourist attraction.

 

I do not think ikobi intended any harm in the post or poll. The negative responses to these are heart felt and cannot be helped. I too feel real strongly on this issue and could go on a rant at this moment as I feel a rage building. As a member of the OFC, it angers me to see these changes. The cause of this rage has nothing to do with ikobi nor any of this generation.

 

If you want to show sympathy and respect, do as Alan2 suggested.

[+Criminal]

Wasn't one of the purposes of this sport is to take people to interesting places they might not have otherwise gone to? Done tastefully I think it's a good idea. If you consider the fact that should somebody find a bloody sock they'd put it on e-bay, I can see no harm or insult in hiding a cache in the area. Somebody might even say a prayer while they're there......

[+Team Dralasites]

"and I think that you would even suggest it shows what a poor excuse for a human being you are....with more in common with someone so callous as to kill another"

 

I just think that the above quote was uncalled for. We're all adults here...let's learn to control our tempers a little better.

[+RAD Dad]

To those who think I am off base, or owe an apology, my response is, YOU ARE THE ONES WITH THE PROBLEMS! This "Cache" idea isn't about memorializing, or about showing respect, it is exploitation of a tragedy. What's next? Virtual caches of places where serial killers victims were found? How about a virtual cache of locations where women were raped? THe entire notion makes me sick, and the fact that people can't see why it is so wrong makes me sicker. No wonder why our society is so completely in shambles that we have kids killing kids, suicide rates on the climb, child abuse on the rise, and other signs of social decay abounding....too many people have no sense of decency any more, no respect for others, no empathy for those who have lost loved ones. It is sick. If you think I'm off my rocker, take a close look at yourself...you are probably part of the problem as well...I hope you aren't breeding.

 

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

[+Criminal]

Yikes!

[+RAD Dad]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Team Dralasites:

"and I think that you would even suggest it shows what a poor excuse for a human being you are....with more in common with someone so callous as to kill another"

 

I just think that the above quote was uncalled for. We're all adults here...let's learn to control our tempers a little better.

---

One of the primary reasons killers kill is because they are selfish, and they lack empathy. They don't care about those they are hurting, including the victim and the victims family. Someone who would think to create a virtual cache further exploiting this whole tragedy for the Levy family is also showing a lack of empathy and serious self-centered thought. So yes, someone like that has more in common with the killer than with someone like me, who is sickened by the very idea, as I can empathize completely with the family and with how hurt they would be if they found thier daughters death was being continually trivialized in such a manner.

 

Also, so far as people finding a bloody sock and then placing it on Ebay, that is also completely sick and wrong, plus it is illegal (tampering with evidence) and even if such sick activities were to occur, it wouldn't thus make some other activity, though it not be on such a scale as that, any less sick. What is with people that they think that "hey people do worse things out there, and that's ok, so this here idea is not bad at all!" that is low minded logic. Just because someone kills 10 people, and does it all because they hate those ten people doesn't mean that someone who kills only one person and does it because that person was blackmailing them is not bad. Sure, killing 10 because you hate them is horrible, evil, as well as illegal, but that doesn't mean that killing only one, and only because they were illegally blackmailing you, is ok, or less evil. Same idea applies here, just because there are other people doing things far more sick that creating a virtual cache based on a murder scene doesn't mean than creating a virtual cache based on a murder scene isn't sick and insensitive.

 

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

 

[This message was edited by RAD Dad on May 29, 2002 at 10:25 PM.]

 

[This message was edited by RAD Dad on May 29, 2002 at 10:27 PM.]

[+Criminal]

Sorry Dad, I don't see how hiding a cache, real or not, could be considered disrespectful. The poor girl was murdered! Maybe you are saying that if we ignore it, it will go away? It was a simple question, not deserving the reaction it got. Right or wrong, good or bad, it was just a question. That level of contention seems a bit inappropriate to me. Everyone has and is entitled to an opinion. Just because the opinion expressed isn’t yours doesn’t make it wrong. Is it hard to Geocache from way up there on that pedestal?

 

What I’m saying is, chill. It was a question. Even if a cache or memorial plaque is placed there, you have the freedom to visit it or not.

[+RAD Dad]

Geocaching is a game. Creating a cache trivializes what went on in that site. That site is not a memorial location, it is not a tourist attraction, if the only reason you are drawing people to the location is because it is the location in which a person was killed, you are exploiting the tragedy, not memorializing it or showing respect.

 

By the way, I love the way people start off rebuking someone for what they said with "everyone has a right to their own opinion"....now I'm going to go on and tell you why you should keep yours to yourself is usually what follows, but not in so many words. It is passive aggressive censorship.

 

Well everyone does have a right to their opinion, and if they stick it out there for everyone to see, they better be ready to be told when it is flat out wrong as well. YOu have a right to an opinion, and a right to expression, but that right doesn't mean your opinion is right, or your expression is right, and I have the right to let you know when I believe it is not, and you (editorial you, not just you, but anyone it may apply to) have the right to rethink your opinion, humble yourself and admit your foolishness, or get defensive and expand on your depravity.

 

Oh, and yeah, this pedestal is nice, high and mighty. Just because it has become hip to wallow in the gutter of "everything is ok, tolerate all thought, except the thought that there is a right and wrong answer" doesn't mean we all have to wallow in that gutter of relativism, hypocrisy and mediocrity. I'm not perfect, I make mistakes, I don't always live right, but at least I don't try and justify my mistakes or change right and wrong to keep myself in the right, when I'm wrong, I'm wrong, because truth doesn't change to suit my current lifestyle or belief system, I've been outside of the truth before, probably will be again in the future, after all I'm human, but that doesn't mean I have to claim there is no truth to try and make myself feel justified in my frailties.

 

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

[+JaimeeG]

I was trying to figure out ikobi's motive for placing a cache of this nature. Even the post topic title says a lot..."Chandra cache, too creepy?" Creepy?? To describe what happened to her?? Wow..seems a better choice of words could have been found there.

 

Also, I find it interesting that this person has been a cacher since August of 2001, only found 2 caches and placed 0..this would be the first placement.

 

I think this would be a very poor choice for a cache placement. We live in the same town as the Condit's, and I went to school with one of the kids. I have met Dr. Levy a time or two while working for another oncologist in Modesto. All the people involved are just that...PEOPLE..not inanimate objects with no feelings to consider.

 

As others have stated, if you don't like a cache, don't hunt it. I certainly wouldn't go for a cache of this nature, and I guess I would maybe hope that this type of cache would not be placed, but that is just MY opinion!

 

Jaimee

[+JaimeeG]

I was trying to figure out ikobi's motive for placing a cache of this nature. Even the post topic title says a lot..."Chandra cache, too creepy?" Creepy?? To describe what happened to her?? Wow..seems a better choice of words could have been found there.

 

Also, I find it interesting that this person has been a cacher since August of 2001, only found 2 caches and placed 0..this would be the first placement.

 

I think this would be a very poor choice for a cache placement. We live in the same town as the Condit's, and I went to school with one of the kids. I have met Dr. Levy a time or two while working for another oncologist in Modesto. All the people involved are just that...PEOPLE..not inanimate objects with no feelings to consider.

 

As others have stated, if you don't like a cache, don't hunt it. I certainly wouldn't go for a cache of this nature, and I guess I would maybe hope that this type of cache would not be placed, but that is just MY opinion!

 

Jaimee

[+Criminal]

Wasn't quite what I said. I didn't say "keep your opinion to yourself", I just said "chill". You are right, it's a game. If a game isn't fun, it's not really a game is it? Your messages give the impression of hostility. Look back at my semi tongue in cheek reply on what the sport is supposed to be about. I say semi because it’s up to the cache owner where and why to place a cache. It shouldn’t be up to a quorum on whether or not it’s respectful. YOU have the power to go and find it or not. It won’t encourage murder any more than the .38 locked up in my closet will. A murderer is a whacko, don’t try to put the blame on the media, sports, or the times we live in.

 

I meant no disrespect to you or your opinion. I will apologize (in person if we ever cross paths) if I offended you in the least. My whole point here is save the energy for a real threat, not a question.

 

Personally I would go. Not for the reason you think either.

[+EraSeek]

Sorry, just didn't have the patience to wade through all this stuff, but the reaction is obvious.

 

The question was put forth. Guidence was asked for. Judging from the results, it was given. No need for social re-education camp. Lighten up. Short and sweet will convience better than repeated hammer blows.

 

Q: is this right?

A: No. It is not right because it is not kind.

 

[+Team Dralasites]

RadDad, don't go presuming that you know anything at all about us, just by reading a couple of posts. Enough said.

 

Anyway, I think this thread has achieved its purpose. Ikobi has solicited for opinions, and he got them (as well as some uncalled-for character judgment, unfortunately).

 

In any case, and most importantly, welcome to the hobby, ikobi! I'll apologize on behalf of RadDad for his rude behavior. I hope you don't see it as a reflection of the rest of the Geocaching community.

[+RAD Dad]

Don't go apologising on someone elses behalf, it only makes you a liar, unless you know them to be sorry. I am not. On a board like this you are judged by what you say, so one should be carefull in what they say, as it reflects upon their character. My behavior was not rude, it may have been agressive, it may have been offensive, but it was not rude. It is not always rude or wrong to offend those who are engaged in wrongful thought or actions. The subject line as well as the initial question clearly indicates that he had asked someone already, and been told it wasn't appropriate, yet still he felt the need to further seek approval, clearly indicating that for some reason he has no problem with this idea, and so long as he can get enough support, he intends to go through with it. That this idea would even be surfaced is HIGHLY insensitive, that, even after being advised by someone that it was too ghoulish or too soon, he still seems to desire to procede shows just how flawed his thinking is. This isn't a poll designed to truely get a take on what others think, his real desire is to seek enough approaval that he feels justified in going forward. This person joined the game way back in August 2001, has only found two caches, at least two he posted as found, and has placed none, and is just now returning to this game because he lives near the area of the scene and thinks this would be a fun exploitation of both this game, and the scene of the crime. This is the only thread he has posted on in recent times (so far as is indicated by clicking on the see forum posts option in the profile) and judging by the lack of response thus far, I wager he is little more than a troll....and yeah...I fell into the trolls trap.

 

The idea was a sick one at best, and someone who would float an idea is opening themselves up to judgements upon their character, as such an idea speaks volumes about their character. Now, I have to agree with EraSeek, that all this hounding on my part is really getting us no where, and probably isn't terribly productive, so that is all for now....just couldn't resist responding to that backhanded attack by Team Dralasites...one of my weakness', the inability to just walk away from an attack....you know what they say about pride....comes before a fall....I've scraped my knees and elbows plenty due to that.

 

ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it.

[+rdw]

This cache is not a good idea. To place it would be quite disrespectful. Why would you want to place a cache where a murder victim was found? Geocaching and morbid curiosity don't mix. It would also be a crappy virtual cache. What would you use for verification? A tree?!? Since it is a national park, a virtual is the only option.

 

Overall, I agree with Rad Dad's reasoning. Not with the same intensity.

 

rdw

 

[This message was edited by rdw on May 30, 2002 at 02:27 AM.]

[MTU_Cache_Spot]

Just thought I'd add to the fray here (no opinions expressed or implied).

 

About 20 miles from my house is a cache that was set in February of this year (Dr. Death). Since it's inception it has been visited 18 times (according to webpage) and not one of the logs has mentioned anything except praise for a cache that sits within view of the cabin that Dr. Kervorkian performed his first assisted suicide at in Bald Mountain Park (yes this is refered to in the description). It seems to me that although this is a completely different ethical issue (assisted suicide vs. murder), that this cache could fall into this same conversation. Talk about your creepy caches!

[+Seth!]

quote:

---

Originally posted by RAD Dad:

What's next? Virtual caches of places where serial killers victims were found?

---

 

I can see it now. I'll run out and place the "Green River Multi-Cache". But seriously, I think the proposed geocache is a bad idea for most of the reasons posted above. Frankly, I was shocked to see the thread. I wonder if it was really a serious suggestion or just one fishing for a RADical conversation. Hmmmm...what could *I* post that would start a forum fire...?

 

I think that somebodies need to step away from the computer and go hunt a geocache or two.

 

Peace guys,

Seth!

[+Team Dralasites]

Pote, I think there's plenty of reasonable people on the forums. It'd be sad to see you leave on account of a few (okay, maybe not quite a few) bad apples.

 

Anyway, happy caching

[+Team Dralasites]

Pote, I think there's plenty of reasonable people on the forums. It'd be sad to see you leave on account of a few (okay, maybe not quite a few) bad apples.

 

Anyway, happy caching

[+15Tango]

Not a good idea for a cache. But, straying away from the argument going on in this forum--the guy who found the body was tramping through the brush looking for "turtles". At first I was wondering if he was one of us. If I was looking for a place to hide a cache, and came across something like Chandra, I don't know if I would tell the truth about what I was doing in the area--I would probably say I was looking for turtles or morels or something.

 

www.1800goguard.com

[Dru Morgan]

Most of what passes for tolerance today is not tolerance at all, but rather intellectual cowardice. Those who hide behind that word are often afraid of intelligent engagement. They're unwilling to be challenged by alternate points of view, to engage contrary opinions, or even to consider them. It's easier to hurl an insult--'you intolerant bigot'--than to confront the idea and either refute it or be changed by it.

-Gregory Koukl

 

Whenever someone says, "You shouldn't force your morality on me," always ask, "Why not?" Usually the response is going to be an example of his or her forcing her morality on you. To make sense out of the objection, he or she will have to state a moral rule while denying any moral rules exist. Such attempts reduce to, 'You're wrong for saying people are wrong,' or more bluntly, 'You shouldn't judge, you narrow-minded bigot.'

 

Everywhere that cache is found,

Bound to Cover Just a Little More Ground.

-Dru Morgan www.theheavenlyhost.com

[purring alien]

It would be wrong to place a "Chandra cache". Just flat out wrong. It's only sensationalizing what happened to her, not memoralizing. If she was a geocacher I could see a cache being placed in her memory, but only in time, and not where she was found.

 

Ikobi, thank you for asking our opinion before doing it, judging by the poll results, it really was a good idea to see what everyone thought first.

[White Rabbit]

I just think that it's plain wrong. Geocaching is supposed to be a fun outing for people, not a trek through a forest to see where someone ditched the dead body of someone. The only way that this would even remotely be a good idea is if you had all the cachers that visit leave flowers or something to honor and remember her, but that's still kind of wrong in my opinion.

 

I am the Rabbit King, I can do anything

[hakalugi]

I don't think a cache location 'tivializes' the location (RD), and do think that it could be educational (TD), but don't like the idea of death scenes giving anymore attention to killers (who often strive for recognition), and I'm generally against the idea proposed in the poster's question.

 

Although ignoring it won't "make it go away" - there are plenty of other (better) things to see (and thus better candidates for a cache) than the site of a body's dumping.

 

Anyways, is it a moot point? Rock Creek is part of the Nat'l Park Service... (i'm new at this- waiting for next paycheck to buy my GPSr, in fact) but didn't I read that no caches can be placed in Nat'l Parkland?

[+Criminal]

I think what we’re all forgetting here is that it was just a question. It hasn’t been done and in all likelihood it never will. ikobi lit the fuse and we all ended up in a pointless string of nowhere conversation. I was just surprised by the tone.

[+newoldstock]

Since this is such a hot topic, let me just reiterate up front that I think this cache is a bad idea.

 

However, I do find it interesting that those folk who might visit such a location are chastised as insensitive gawkers while those folk who sit at home after work and use the nightly news to satiate the voyueristic tendencies all humans have are simply catching up on current events. Hmmmm....

 

I'm very geography-oriented so I'm always supremely interested in the power of place. Obviously the proposed location evokes VERY powerful emotions and strong opinions and therefore it, too, is powerful and strong.

 

Is it the assumption that geocaching ALWAYS has a recreational element to it that makes this cache proposal so repugnant to so many?

 

*barefoot*

[+Criminal]

I don’t mean this to sound cold but they’ve been looking for her for what, a year now? It has to be a good cache location, but NOT because of what may have happened there. I wouldn’t visit such a cache because of the notoriety, but because it simply must be a good remote location.

 

Of course I’m really sorry I got involved in this conversation at all now. I’ve been branded an exploiter and sensationalizer because of my support for the idea that the cache belongs to the cache owner. It does not take a village to place a cache. If ikobi was seriously asking the question (and I doubt it) why did so many assume his intentions were negative?

 

From the beginning of this my whole point was “Hello? It’s a GAME! Let’s not get all bent out of shape whenever someone asks a question”. Nuff said.

[+Team Dralasites]

I really like the point that hakalugi brought up about giving recognition to the killers. That's one point won for not placing the cache.

 

About the national parks thing, didn't ikobi want to do a virtual cache?

[+Web-ling]

Absolutely not.

 

And relax. Go out and find a cache, instead of ranting over a cache that doesn't exist and would never get approved.

 

[+Team Dralasites]

Criminal, I don't think you've been branded anything...at least not in my book. You were just intelligently engaged in a debate. The fact that it caused such polarized reactions just shows the profundity of the issue.

 

I'm not sure if ikobi's question was serious or not. I guess that I just assumed that it was, and so offered my opinion in as unoffensive a manner as possible.

 

I personally think that the main topic of this thread is pretty much dead (as in, we're not really getting anywhere by further discussion...nobody has really said anything new). In any case, the poll has achieved its purpose. It would have been better if personal judgments had been left out of the debate, but oh well.

[+Perfect Tommy]

As a threshold matter, I voted against this cache and agree with many of the comments made by the previous posters. That said, last February I went to Ground Zero as part of this Bug's mission and got a ticket to the viewing platform. The platform overlooks the site where over 2,800 people lost their lives. If they sold tickets instead of giving them away I'm sure people would still come. Are all these people there because of morbid curiousity? Perhaps. Would it have been wrong to mark the viewing platform as a virtual cache when it overlooks a site of mass murder? Would it be wrong to post a virtual cache at the USS Arizona memorial in Pearl Harbor, the Bloody Angle at Antietam or on Omaha Beach in Normandy? I don't think so since these examples are significant places in our nation's history - they are geographic touchstones to events that have shaped our nation's history and the character of its people, whereas the sites in the proposed cache (or Nicole Simpson's condo or Sharon Tate's house for that matter), IMHO, are not. But where does one draw the line? I can see people posting virtuals for Ford's Theatre, the grassy knoll, Heart of Atlanta motel, etc. It's a slippery slope.

[+Criminal]

Thanks for the support. I just hope that somebody with a serious but controversial question isn’t frightened off by all this. After 19+ years in the Air Force and 16 years as a C-141B aircrew member, I know the feeling of losing a friend. We don’t visit the crash site to stare at the wreckage or to gawk. We go to bow our heads and contemplate a comrade lost. The most disturbing thing about the hostile replys to me was how it was assumed ikobe (in this case, but could have been anybody) had bad intentions. I didn’t get that from the question.

[+Criminal]

Whack, take that you dead dadgum horse!

[Eric O'Connor]

I agree with those who feel the cache is a bad idea, and also agree that while hostility has it's place, this ain't the place.

 

These kinds of events truly sadden me.

 

I have a hard enough time trusting my fellow humans without the added worry that someone will go out of their way to cause me or someone I care about harm.

 

I'm not the religious type and don't put a whole lot of stock in the afterlife.

Hearing about someone robbed of what little life we're given disturbs me to the core of my soul (Cold and black as it may be).

 

Whovever did this to the Levy family, to the poor guy who found her (can you imagine?), and to the world full of people who hug their children in fear before sending them off to school. He should never know peace, kindness, or comfort.

 

If any of you at some point get a chance to pass this on to the Levy family, I feel safe in speaking for geocachers everywhere in expressing our condolenses.

 

Hopefully I'm wrong about the afterlife in Chandra's case and she's shooting the breeze with Nat and Ella, while Satchmo shines his trumpet.

 

That's my idea of heaven anyhow....

[+Dep&Uno&Co]

Ikobi: I personally think that it would depend on how you handled it and the type of cache you placed. You said it would be a virtual cache and not a regular cache. I think this is fine, as long as it is worded appropriately and isn't done to exploit the ghoulishness of the spot. It may be ghoulish to some extent either way, but there are tons of tours that people take all over this country that do the same thing. Theres graveyard tours of the rich in LA, theres grave tours in New Orleans, theres tours to see where gangsters were killed in Chicago, etc. As someone who lives in the DC Area, I have encountered many people who want to go see the spot. It is not to get their jollies, but human curiosity.

 

As for RAD DAD: your posts on this topic have just dropped my opinion of you to nothing. It is ok to have strong opinions and feelings about something, but the stuff that you posted here was totally uncalled for.

 

IMHO

Dep

[cachebaby]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pote:

 

I left the forums alone 2 weeks ago because I got sick of several posters and their "I'm right and I'll beat it into everyone" attitudes. I thought maybe I needed a break ....

---

 

Perhaps RadDad is the one who needs to take a break.

 

All that's necessary to say is: I think it's a bad idea rather than "poor excuse for a human being you are...". Sheesh.

 

And Perfect Tommy makes very good points... the passage of time changes the way sites of war/death/tragedy are viewed.

 

My opionion: if the cacher is a Levy family friend or has a direct connection to Chandra and/or knew she was a geocacher...then go for it. Otherwise, hold off and see if you still think a cache there is a good idea in a year or so.

 

CB

 

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I'm new here, be gentle.

 

[This message was edited by cachebaby on May 30, 2002 at 08:30 PM.]