LOCKDOWN!

5.9k · August 19, 2003

quote:
What pisses you off? That was your question, if you want to know what pisses users off go the 22 page complaint department thread and read. No need to start a new thread.

You are in error. My question was in the subject header, and followed up by the above. To refresh,

quote:
What angers you the most about the forums?

I don’t need you or anyone else to tell me to “go to the 22 page complaint department thread”, if I want to I will.

The complaint thread is too general and somewhat verbose. The poll was a tongue-in-cheek question relating to yesterday’s events. There was much anger and dissention in the forums, threads were locked, and posts deleted. If humor (or my humor in particular) offends you, I apologize. Nonetheless, it should be realized by those with the power to lock a thread down, that the forum is relatively self-policing. A crapass thread will die of its own accord, it needs no omnipotent intervention. Locking a thread should be reserved for obscene or indecent subjects.

Relevance of a subject is open to wide interpretation. Vespa scooters have little to do with geocaching, why didn’t you lock down that thread? To argue that the scooter was used for geocaching is null. I almost always wear underwear while geocaching, but it has no real significance in the forums.

quote:
There are times that we may lock a thread that something good may come of it. We try to avoid that.

Can you really say you were “trying” here?

quote:
if the intent of the thread is to see how long we will let it go before locking, it will be locked.

Please don’t presume to know my intent, it is far beyond your reach as you and I have never met.

quote:
There have been many threads started recently with no purpose at all, or with purpose and quickly hijacked.

This statement indicates some degree of relevance finding is used to determine the viability of a thread. If I post something to the forums, it is relevant because I established it to be relevant.

In summary, the forums are being used as they were intended. General issues are posted in the general area and may or may not appear relevant to me, you, or anyone else. Unless the server is getting too full to hold as many posts as are being generated, there is only one reason to close a thread or delete a post; the subject matter is offensive in some way. If no one is offended, all else is opinion. Opinions are subjective and far to divergent to be useful for moderation of a forum.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

3.5k · August 19, 2003

It seems like this should have been an email to Heidi, not a post.

5.9k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by 9Key:
It seems like this should have been an email to Heidi, not a post.

http://www.texasgeocaching.com

I generally can’t send/receive emails on that account from work. I feel that it is applicable to the forums; I’m not the only one who gets locked down.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

3.9k · August 19, 2003

Criminal,

You make some valid points, however I think maybe you are going about it the wrong way. I think at this point you have let it become too personal and you're not looking at it from all sides.

There are threads out there that should be locked down and recently some that were locked too soon. There seems to be a rash of threads started that seem to want to provoke the admins.

Sometimes I wonder from reading the posts if they are coming from adults or children.

Granted there are threads out there that have nothing to do with caching, but they still have value to the members as a whole...even Vespa Scooters. Yet others such as "add 5 words to this" are valuable to whom? Seems like some just like to post to see themselves on the form. These people offer nothing valuable to Geocaching...or to anything or anyone.

To avoid censorship, maybe it is wise to let sleeping dogs lay.

Just 2 cents worth from an old fart. Happy caching.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

http://www.geo-hikingstick.com

August 19, 2003

Your referencing/continuing a matter closed by a mod previously thereby making it a personal matter. I would think if it were a fresh post about the topic of thread locking, then it would be another story. Posting a rebuttal to a decision made by a mod is different, which this seems to be. That, on the other hand, would be something to mail to a mod when you got off work. That’s my view on it anyhow.

2.1k · August 19, 2003

A criminal oughta be used to LOCKDOWN!....

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

August 19, 2003

LOL, I agree!

5.9k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Your referencing/continuing a matter closed by a mod previously thereby making it a personal matter.

Simply because it was closed by a moderator does not mean the subject was finished. If a question is asked or a statement made that leaves an issue in doubt, it is helpful to be able to respond. When the thread is locked, however, no response is possible. Thus, another thread must be started to continue the topic.

I’m neither taking it personally nor debating it with Hydee on a personal level. This is the subject; why are threads that are not offensive locked down? Relevance or opinion is subjective. Where is the line drawn? What am I not allowed to discuss? When am I not allowed to discuss?

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

1k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
...why are threads that are not offensive locked down?...

P***ed Moderator Syndrome, perhaps?

Oh, and in case I'M locked down and am not permitted further response, it's been fun!

worldtraveler

38.2k · August 19, 2003

I don't have to read this thread. If Criminal said it, it must be so.

How 'bout some betting. I say this thread is locked by 3:56 pacific time.

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

1.4k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
I don't have to read this thread. If Criminal said it, it must be so.

How 'bout some betting. I say this thread is locked by 3:56 pacific time.

_"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry_

LOL

When in doubt...hit it with a big hammer.

August 19, 2003

quote:
There have been many threads started recently with no purpose at all, or with purpose and quickly hijacked. We are working on putting a stop to it.

Why? Where's the harm? Does Infopop charge by the post? What is it about these posts/threads that's so terrible, harmful or destructive that they have to be locked? I thought we were a community of people who all had something in common discussing things that are relavent to our lives - sometimes it pertains to Geocaching, sometimes it doesn't. The point is, we're all coming HERE to socialize and have fun, and for no apparent reason, TPTB have decided that it's unacceptable.

quote:
Is there anybody else that has grown tired of the attitude of TPTB as of late?

Yes.

quote:
Is there anybody else that hopes some other site comes along and gives this one some real competition?

I do, but not because I want to see harm come to Jeremy or Groundspeak. I'd like to see some real competition come around so TPTB have a REASON to treat their CUSTOMERS well and continue to remain innovative. There's a reason that anti-trust laws exist and the same concepts apply to any situation where there's a monopoly.

--

Pehmva!

Random quote:

sigimage.php

August 19, 2003

I generally agree with Criminal that unless a thread is offensive or disturbing, it should be left to die on it's own. But perhaps only in the general forum.

That being said, I have noticed that I'm sort of getting tired of wading through the bullsh!t threads to find something about geocaching in the general forum.

Nice thing about that is there are plenty of interesting geocaching conversations going on in the other foras.

I think the general forum should be left as much unmoderated as possible. There are plenty of other more topic-specific threads on this site for those who don't want to horse around.

Criminal, I'm with you! You're eloquent, full of rage against the machine, and I love your avatar so much.

August 19, 2003

I agree with Criminal for the most part. I made my opinion (un)clear on the last locked post.

My question now, is this: How is the "continue this sentence by 5 words" thread more "necesary" or "valuable" then a thread discussing forum monitoring?

This I may never understand.

Pan

"The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

August 19, 2003

I have a real problem with this poll.

I can’t vote for the first choice and also the last choice. They are not mutually exclusive. And I don’t live in Chicago so I can’t vote twice.

Criminal you should know I am joking. I am rarely able to find myself in disagreement with anything you have to say.

August 19, 2003

Speaking from a mod standpoint (I moded at quite a few sites) when a thread is locked, it's the ending of a post that has become either terribly redundant or abusive. At that point, the posters, as guests of the forum, should take it upon themselves to put on their big-boy pants and walk away from it.

As I said before, if you want to debate what should and what should not be locked, you cant call upon a previously locked thread and try to pull justification from it. It's a thread and the new thread should be of original content. Otherwise, your doing nothing but continuing a thread already closed by a mod, thereby negating their authority and the respect of that authority.

5.9k · August 19, 2003

I geuss it's a good thing you signed up today, you might have missed the whole thing.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

August 19, 2003

Does anybody know when the kids go back to school?

K.I.S.S.

August 19, 2003

But I guess if I were to have joined tomorrow and missed this post entirely, maybe nobody would have disagreed with you, and you could have avoided me disagreeing with you. Yeah, it’s a shame.

2.1k · August 19, 2003

Usually a moderator will warn users privately if there posts are offensive, flaming, and/or abusive towards others. So far I have not seen any moderating with perhaps of locking down an entire thread when they were getting offended. Where were the moderators when I was getting offended, flamed and abused as well as others on other threads (other than when they did it themselves)?

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

2.3k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SkyeMaloney:
It's a _thread_ and the new thread should be of original content. Otherwise, your doing nothing but continuing a thread already closed by a mod, thereby negating their authority and the respect of that authority.

Can't argue with that one. Words of wisdom from a newbie. I like that.

2.3k · August 19, 2003

Don't MAKE me start a new "The person below me" thread...

2.1k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SkyeMaloney:
thereby negating their authority and the respect of that authority.

While that sounds good and is a general rule of thumb, so is that respect has to be earned. It can easily be lost as well.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

2.3k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:
Usually a moderator will warn users _privately_ if there posts are offensive, flaming, and/or abusive towards others. So far I have not seen any moderating with perhaps of locking down an entire thread when _they_ were getting offended. Where were the moderators when I was getting offended, flamed and abused as well as others on other threads (other than when they did it themselves)?

Brian

_As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump_

If you get offended or flamed on here, write to the mods and let them know. I can vouch that they will get on the problem right away.

August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SkyeMaloney:
But I guess if I were to have joined tomorrow and missed this post entirely, maybe nobody would have disagreed with you, and you could have avoided me disagreeing with you. Yeah, it’s a shame.

I'm sure as an experienced user and moderator of internet forums you are familiar with the phenomenon of lack of respect towards users who have been registered for less than a day who start throwing their opinion around. No?

-Vb

2.1k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by TEAM 360:
If you get offended or flamed on here, write to the mods and let them know. I can vouch that they will get on the problem right away.

They post on the message board and tend to read the board I assume (result of lockdowned threads). They should be enforcing these things on their own, rather than resulting to a he said-she said debate. Jeremy suggested using the little caution symbol to report posts. I imagine if it were used, they would be getting a lot of little messages from the system.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

5.9k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SkyeMaloney:
But I guess if I were to have joined tomorrow and missed this post entirely, maybe nobody would have disagreed with you, and you could have avoided me disagreeing with you. Yeah, it’s a shame.

Search my posts if you like; I never berate anyone for disagreeing with me. I recognize that everyone’s opinion will be different. I don’t care if you or anyone disagrees with me, my opinion is valid. Your claim to have been a forum moderator is irrelevant to this discussion and adds little to it.

I made the decision to support this site, not because of the added features I can use, (I don’t use them and can’t figure out how) but simply because I believed in the game and the folks who started it. When I see other players getting jumped on for expressing their opinions, whether by the moderators or other players, I may decide to speak my mind on the issue. To lock a thread, mine or not, simply for arbitrary reasons, is absurd.

You may get flamed for your opinion on this, but not by me. You know little about me, what I believe, and why I believe in it. You would do well to limit your discussions to that of which you are knowledgeable.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
If no one is offended, all else is opinion.

That, too, is an opinion (being offended).

3.8k · August 19, 2003

QUOTE: "...You may get flamed for your opinion on this, but not by me..."--Criminal

=================================================

That's not a flame!

Criminal, I agree 100% with your principles. Why don't you just drop it...invite Heidi over for a glass of wine and have a friendly little talk?

I would.

Heidi.

==============="If it feels good...do it"================

**(the other 9 out of 10 voices in my head say: "Don't do it.")**

.

5.9k · August 19, 2003

It’s not about Hydee, but rather the whole environment of hostility the past two days. Post a question to the forums, sometimes you’ll get a helpful response and sometimes not. All my posts have my avatar in the upper left; anyone can simply skip right over them if they choose.

The lockdowns lately are like saying something controversial on the telephone, and then hanging up before the other person can respond. So I simply hit redial and picked it up again.

I believe it to be an interesting and relevant discussion and I wanted to continue it. I don’t like being hung up on.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

2.3k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Criminal:
You would do well to limit your discussions to that of which you are knowledgeable.

Yes, he will learn a lot that way, don't you think?

2.1k · August 19, 2003

Speaking of Hydee, there's something alarming about her profile. Besides the fact that there are no finds for her, there is one owned cache. A virtual in Alaska at a glacier on a National park. Yes it's archived ( a couple times matter of fact). But what gets me is that the profile of the owner is under the name of "meticulousmike". I thought it was probably just an error, but it's a good one, because when you click on his name, it goes back to Hydee's profile page. Strange...

Sorry that was off topic and does little for the thread..sorry criminal...

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

38.2k · August 19, 2003

quote:
But I guess if I were to have joined tomorrow and missed this post entirely, maybe nobody would have disagreed with you, and you could have avoided me disagreeing with you. Yeah, it’s a shame.

Woodster, is that you? You know sock puppet accounts are frowned upon.

Seriously though, has anyone here ever seen, what, a half dozen or so locked threads in a two day period? Some with only a handful of posts. WTF is going on?

I won't even mention the GPS related threads I started in the GPS/Ham Radio forum that were deleted. Oops, I just did. Heaven forbid that we discuss GPS units in a forum devoted to GPS units and ham radio. BTW, what does ham radio have to do with geocaching? Never figured that one out.

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

2.1k · August 19, 2003

No isn't me...maybe it's jomarac5? I do agree with criminal partly here...

Plus that dude puts things nicely. I wouldn't say it as well and there would be some typos..

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

2.1k · August 19, 2003

Plus that would be your "sock pupper" account, twice removed...lol

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

1.4k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Woodsters wrote:
No isn't me...maybe it's jomarac5?

Woody, Woody, Woody, we've been doing so well here today. You really don't want to be pointing an accusing finger at me do you? I have NO sock puppet accounts so let's keep this friendly, shall we?

Thanks.

*****

August 19, 2003

quote:
Your claim to have been a forum moderator is irrelevant to this discussion and adds little to it.

Not true. It’s not had to imagine the reasons behind locking a thread. Having modded I have done the same thing for the same reasons. To stop a train before it derails or cut losses if it does. I realize that and therefore mention that continuing an already closed post isn’t what the mod wants.

quote:
You may get flamed for your opinion on this, but not by me. You know little about me, what I believe, and why I believe in it. You would do well to limit your discussions to that of which you are knowledgeable.

Also not true. My knowledge of you or the man in the moon is irrelevant. I made no personal judgments upon you and you assuming I did is off base. What I am saying is that the post is wrong in itself. As I said, it’s a continuation of a closed post. I need no knowledge of you because you are not the center of my post, the thread is, and I am just as knowledgeable of it as anyone else.

quote:
I'm sure as an experienced user and moderator of internet forums you are familiar with the phenomenon of lack of respect towards users who have been registered for less than a day who start throwing their opinion around. No?

Oh, you mean someone taking upon themselves to judge the knowledge of any given topic solely by their post count? Certainly. You mean someone thinking that someone with 1000 posts is any more intelligent as someone on their first? Yes. You mean narrow-minded idea of taking that little number as a concrete representation of a person’s value while in fact it holds absolutely positively nothing? Unfortunately so. That’s why I don’t let myself make that mistake.

quote:
Woodster, is that you? You know sock puppet accounts are frowned upon.

No clue who Woodster is.

-------------------------------------------

http://www.hardcorebodybuildingontheweb.com

3k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:
While that sounds good and is a general rule of thumb, so is that respect has to be earned. It can easily be lost as well.

Well there are those here who don't need to earn your respect or any of ours for that matter. A few names that come to mind are Jeremy, Elias, Hydee, rostafari??? There may be more. Its kind of like your boss, he doesn't need to earn your respect, if you have a problem, you can be replaced. Ok, so maybe that doesn't apply here but anyway....

I haven't been here the past few days to know what Criminal is talking about but it seems as though after having two of his threads locked and on the verge of a third, maybe thats the bs he is refering to?

__________________________

Caching without a clue....

3k · August 19, 2003

SkyeMaloney,

You make sense to me so far but the thing I don't understand is if you are just so darn new or a sock puppet as has been mentioned. I feel more towards the latter of the two but anyway, if not find a "who are you thread" and let us know so we can go from there instead of having this other impression from this thread.

Just an idea.

__________________________

Caching without a clue....

August 19, 2003

quote:
Oh, you mean someone taking upon themselves to judge the knowledge of any given topic solely by their post count? Certainly. You mean someone thinking that someone with 1000 posts is any more intelligent as someone on their first? Yes. You mean narrow-minded idea of taking that little number as a concrete representation of a person’s value while in fact it holds absolutely positively nothing? Unfortunately so. That’s why I don’t let myself make that mistake.

Way to put words in my mouth. My respect for you grows by the minute.

-Vb

2.1k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by umc:

Well there are those here who don't need to earn your respect or any of ours for that matter. A few names that come to mind are Jeremy, Elias, Hydee, rostafari??? There may be more. Its kind of like your boss, he doesn't need to earn your respect, if you have a problem, you can be replaced. Ok, so maybe that doesn't apply here but anyway....

And as I stated, it can be loss as well. Just like any business that you support whether financially or not, there are things they will do and times that they will lose your respect.

Jomarac5, I was joking... I was giving you a compliment. I stated I wouldn't of said it as nicely and would have some typos..

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

1.4k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Woodsters wrote:
Jomarac5, I was joking... I was giving you a compliment.

Odd sense of humour but oh well, I accept your apology.

Thanks.

*****

2.1k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SkyeMaloney:

Oh, you mean someone taking upon themselves to judge the knowledge of any given topic solely by their post count? Certainly. You mean someone thinking that someone with 1000 posts is any more intelligent as someone on their first? Yes. You mean narrow-minded idea of taking that little number as a concrete representation of a person’s value while in fact it holds absolutely positively nothing? Unfortunately so. That’s why I don’t let myself make that mistake.

I definitely agree with that!

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

3.9k · August 19, 2003

Hmmm...SkyeMaloney registered today and already posts like he knows what's going on...sock puppet? It can't be Woodster...no spelling mistakes Just jesting Woody...my spelling isn't much better.

Point is we have seen these threads closed one after the other in the past few days. So I don't see how SkyeMaloney is qualified to respond. No offence *(for woody) SkyeMaloney but if you just joined today, I don't see how you can fully appreciate this thread.

I'm not on Criminals side...nor am I against what he says. I believe he has been very articulate in his statements. However, I can see both sides.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

http://www.geo-hikingstick.com

August 19, 2003

I voted, agree. if the forums are here for the users, a thread that isn't of interest to the users will die, or be ignored by the users. If there are people that the mods have problems with, an email discussing those problems might be best.

I also agree that a 'general' forum should be just short of a free-for-all, with off topic posts and threads being acceptable and encouraged, it helps people get to know each other better. In most boards that I frequent the 'general' forum is that way, and it works great.

I don't start off topic threads (though my posts aren't always on topic), because TPTB don't seem to like them, and it's their board.

I don't see any positive effects of rampant thread locking though.

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

August 19, 2003

Perhaps what the forums need is a breakdown of post types, similar to the cache count.

1 relevant

2 off topic

3 silly

4 abusive

That way you can know who to take seriously. Say for instance, someone with multiple thousands of posts gives an opinion, but the majority of their posts are silly, abusive and off topic. You instantly know to ignore them.

3k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by martmann:
If there are people that the mods have problems with, an email discussing those problems might be best.

I generally agree there until the "problem person" takes that email and pastes it into the forums anyway. So....why not just keep it here...

I'm definately NOT saying that something like that would ever happen but I could see it.

__________________________

Caching without a clue....

August 19, 2003

My thanks to both Woodster and Verboten.

UMC, an intro thread would be a good idea. I didn’t notice that sub-forum but I’ll throw something quick up. It’ll be pretty darn uninteresting!

El Diablo, true that I may not fully comprehend the complexity of the situation, but my post simply stated this: The mod is the law. If they close a post, drop the issue. It’ll do nothing but get worse if someone posts a new post trying to rehash it or justify their part in the prior post. It never works. Ever.

Sounds like Woody may be my doppelganger here. Only reason I my spelling hasn’t caused half of you to spontaneously grow brain tumors is that I wrote all my posts in Word before posting them. My spelling is abhorrent.

-------------------------------------------

http://www.hardcorebodybuildingontheweb.com

2.1k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by martmann:

I also agree that a 'general' forum should be just short of a free-for-all, with off topic posts and threads being acceptable and encouraged, it helps people get to know each other better. In most boards that I frequent the 'general' forum is that way, and it works great.

I agree, but with somewhat of a difference. I will use my message board(outdoors) as an example. I have 'General" areas which are for general discussion on that particular subject (normally). Then there is an "Off Topic" discussion area, for stuff not related to the others. But stuff that is related does go in there and that is no problem.

Maybe a section for "Off Topic" threads is the answer to some of it. That way people can not have to worry about what goes on in there)OT forum) when they are wanting to talk about caching and GPS'. Then those who are bored can be silly if they want.

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

3.9k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SkyeMaloney:

El Diablo, true that I may not fully comprehend the complexity of the situation, but my post simply stated this: The mod is the law. If they close a post, drop the issue. It’ll do nothing but get worse if someone posts a new post trying to rehash it or justify their part in the prior post. It never works. Ever.

-------------------------------------------

http://www.hardcorebodybuildingontheweb.com

Really?? Then why has this thread not been locked down?

I think Criminal found a different way to voice his previous concerns. The only thing final is death. As long as there is a fourm, you will never stop opinions. You can lock it down time and time again, but unless you ban the author, you will never stop him.

There is no stopping a man who believes he's right and still keeps coming at you.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

http://www.geo-hikingstick.com

LOCKDOWN!

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