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Feds Issue Warning About Geocaches in National Parks


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We have been working with the State Parks in Arkansas for about 8 months. We started with the state trails coordinator and have worked our way to the interpretative guides at different state parks (found them to be more open minded than superintendents). We now have 6 placed on State Park's land in Arkansas with blessings and good will from all. We have made up cache boxes and accompanied the interpretative guides on the placements, let them find the place, and even hide the cache; also one of the parks now has a loggin name: see the "Caddo Bend Cache" in Arkansas. I am saying this, to say, that the idea of working with and even making the cache boxes available to the NPS is a good idea, however, we have found them to be completely unwilling to even talk to us about it. We now have one of the State Parks people helping to try and break the "Ice", with the NPS we hope this works.

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Before ya start yankin' caches, BD, I want to say that burying caches in and of itself I am not opposed to, and neither should the geocaching community at large be. The particular issue is caches buried on 'pristine' land should not occur. Heck, I don't mind if caches are buried in state parks if the ranger doesn't mind. The real point here is that Fuzzybear's cache was not in the ground, yet the ranger proclaimed in his public memo that it was. This can be inflammatory and hurt our cause. I would NEVER expect permission be granted, nor would I even seek permission to bury a cache in an NRA or anywhere else in the NPS system. Altering the landscape is what those land managers are protecting. State parks, USForest lands, BLM lands, etc. are often wildlife and wilderness preserves, but they are also often just places the government doesn't want anyone to build up. The state park I was recently granted permission to hide a cache in was just a big ol chunk of land that the river authority controlled. They have a 50 year lease on the land and that's that. They scared enough wildlife out of the park putting in boat ramps. Another State Park was recently sold and turned into a private campground. They just aren't the same calibre as NATIONAL areas. As long as the particular manager doesn't care, I don't care about buried caches.

 

Again, what we need to do is perform responsibly in the lands where we are permitted and use the evidence to convince National land managers that we can help them, not hurt OUR land.

 

Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

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Actually Renegade Knight is right. Each organization will try to copycat the other until we have no space left. Some will actually "request funds" to "cover the expenses required to keep the Geocachers out".

 

It is in our best interest to continue to spread the word that our hobby is one that believes in the theory and practice of "leave no trace". That we believe that we should leave our destination in better condition than when we got there - "Cache in - Trash Out".

 

While up to now, much of our hobby has been in stealth mode, we need to start up our PR machine and let everyone know who we are and how we operate and that there are many many more of us than the few "bad apples" that they may hear about. That way when there is a blurb such as the one started this thread, people will expect the author to provide proof rather than us. Our proof will be there already. The thing is once we start, we can never stop. (of course that is a good thing)

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AS I posted over in the other NPS thread [1] there are already ectors we can use to leal "sort of" geocache in nps land.

 

[1] http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000917383&m=6920951104

 

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And your dead on about the flow of power. It seems in the country we are more apt to think the citizen is at the bottom of the food chain when in fact its the opposite.

 

Remeber, NPS needs funding. In a tight economy the legislative powers (the ones we voted in but who just voted to go with car companies reconmendations on car standards rather than the one better overall) are looking to cut cut cut in order to pay off on thier pet projects.

 

just a thought

 

-tom

 

----------------------------

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

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I just wanted to let you know that there is a park system out there paying attention to you and playing along. I work for Cleveland Metroparks and we are supporting Geocaching on a test basis for one year. So far we are happy with the process. (We are not a national park).

 

Many park employees belong to a professional organization called NAI. I will be presenting on Geocaching at one of their conferences (Great Lakes Region) next week and hopefully at the national conference in the fall. I hope to inform other park systems of our participation.

 

Although, I do certainly respect park systems that decide the hobby is not for them. As an employee who is managing our six caches and keeping an eye on the 15 or so privatly placed caches in our system - it takes up a great deal of my time.

 

If anyone has questions about how we are participating you can e-mail me at geocaching@clevelandmetroparks.com.

 

Carly Martin, Naturalist

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quote:
Originally posted by Cleveland Metroparks:

I just wanted to let you know that there is a park system out there paying attention to you and playing along. I work for Cleveland Metroparks and we are supporting Geocaching on a test basis for one year. So far we are happy with the process. (We are not a national park).

 

Many park employees belong to a professional organization called NAI. I will be presenting on Geocaching at one of their conferences (Great Lakes Region) next week and hopefully at the national conference in the fall. I hope to inform other park systems of our participation.

 

Although, I do certainly respect park systems that decide the hobby is not for them. As an employee who is managing our six caches and keeping an eye on the 15 or so privatly placed caches in our system - it takes up a great deal of my time.

 

If anyone has questions about how we are participating you can e-mail me at geocaching@clevelandmetroparks.com.

 

Carly Martin, Naturalist


 

Thanks for your support Carly ... hope it works out well for you and your park. Nice to hear some positive feedback!

icon_biggrin.gif

 

348_1002.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Cleveland Metroparks:

I just wanted to let you know that there is a park system out there paying attention to you and playing along. I work for Cleveland Metroparks and we are supporting Geocaching on a test basis for one year. So far we are happy with the process. (We are not a national park).

 

Many park employees belong to a professional organization called NAI. I will be presenting on Geocaching at one of their conferences (Great Lakes Region) next week and hopefully at the national conference in the fall. I hope to inform other park systems of our participation.

 

Although, I do certainly respect park systems that decide the hobby is not for them. As an employee who is managing our six caches and keeping an eye on the 15 or so privatly placed caches in our system - it takes up a great deal of my time.

 

If anyone has questions about how we are participating you can e-mail me at geocaching@clevelandmetroparks.com.

 

Carly Martin, Naturalist


 

Thanks for your support Carly ... hope it works out well for you and your park. Nice to hear some positive feedback!

icon_biggrin.gif

 

348_1002.gif

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Stop burying caches. Stop placing food in caches. Period.

 

Look, newbies of all activities and social groups are notorious for not reading the FAQs. They act as they witness the older, more experienced acting.

 

So, you have a cache on public land and you bury it and leave food in it. Newbie finds it, thinks "this is neat!" Newbie then goes to a national park, and since he hasn't actually read the FAQs, he thinks (complete with the same sense of entitlement that urges people to believe they can tell Jeremy how to run HIS site) he can just bury an ammo can in a national park. Viola! You've just misrepresented geocaching to the NPS! Congratu-f**king-lations, moron!

 

When you plant a cache, you're not just representing geocaching to the parks services, you're representing it to the new geocachers as well. Think about it.

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I want my plaNET BACKKK!!!!

 

woohoo for dubtribe. I wholly agree with the anti-passive acceptance stance. Although a less pitt-bull-like stance might work better. But the sentiment is right on. This is our land, our planet! I'm not going to rehash the benefits our sport/hobby provides to the parks and citizens of this land because I feel that is irrelevant. Bottom line is that this is land that our collective will (Big brother) has set this land aside for preservation and enjoyment - FOR US. If my "enjoyment" is lighting forest fires that would infringe upon your right to enjoy the forest - it would be gone. The stewards of the land are charged with ensuring against this type of activity. A well hidden geocache, that you would have to be looking for to find, infringes on no-ones rights at all. On the rare occasion that someone does stumble across one unintentionally, I think their enjoyment of the forest would be far less adversely affected then if they had reached under that pile of brush and pulled back a hand now affixed with a rattlesnake instead of an ammo box. I would even venture to say that 99% of the people who were out there enjoying the forest/desert/tundra/veldt/what-have-you would smile at the creative way others have found to enjoy their land.

 

Sorry, I got a little tangent-icized on my rant there. I guess what I am trying to say is that "It aint hurtin' nothin" period!

 

P.S. Kudos to the BLM for their intelligent and reasonable position. What I understand them to say is that "as long as it aint hurtin' nothin'"

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quote:
Originally posted by Skaymus:

But until such time as we can express our will through the body politik, we ALL need to go by the rules. Anything less will come back to bite us.


 

Actualy it is we who need to BITE the body politik.

 

Reasons?

 

--They are OUR servants.

 

--WE vote in the power structure.

 

--In some states WE even decide bugdets thru referendums.

 

SO in short, its WE THE PEOPLE who run this dadgum place even though 99% of the WE are sheeple who simply follow the shepherd to what ever conclusion the shepherd wants.

 

Work within the system? Yea. But realize its YOUR freaking system. Its written into the rules that if you dont like somethin YOU can change it.

 

SO..why wait. Act now before the inertia runs against you.

 

"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" F Zappa

 

-tom

 

----------------------------

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

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I was one of the few people to have found the cache that started this discussion. Here's my letter and now I will wait for a reply!

 

March 18, 2002

 

Chris Rungel

DR, Fort Spokane

 

Chris, on Feb 13, I visited Fort Spokane for the first time in my life. I was amazed with the sights, surprised with the level of the river, enjoyed by the walk along the sandy beaches and left with a refreshed mind after spending the afternoon there.

What drew me to this spot in the middle of an eastern Washington winter? A hobby which I have been enjoying since last fall, Geocaching. I was in search of two caches cleverly hidden around this area. I was able to find one in an area not used or seen by the majority of the average park visitors. The other was so well hidden; I was unable to locate it. When I returned to my home, I logged my find into the Geocaching web site and then e-mailed Fuzzybear (Pat Hall) about not finding the other cache and my concerns about it possibly being removed by the Park Service. The Geocaching web page makes it clear that caching is not allowed in National Parks. Beings, Fort Spokane is a National Recreation Area, the National Park rule was questionable in this case.

It has now come to my attention that this incident has been a subject of a National Park Service Morning Report (Mon. March 11). While reading this report, I discovered several inaccuracies which I would like to point out.

#1 ”Sometimes caching entails digging……”. Geocaching does not encourage people to “bury” caches, there are over 17,000 caches hidden world-wide and very few of them are buried. The assumption that Geocachers bury caches is wrong and misleading.

#2 “Ranger Jaime Green investigated and found that two caches had already been buried near Fort Spokane by a geocache player known as “Fuzzybear”.” As I have mentioned earlier I found one of the two caches hidden near Fort Spokane and it was not buried. I have also found 5 other caches “Fuzzybear” has hidden around the Spokane area and not a single one of them were buried. I find the statement about the “two buried caches” also wrong and misleading.

The wording of this report resembles something that would be coming out of the F.B.I. not something coming from our friendly Parks Department. I feel you have made “Fuzzybear” sound like a repeat felon, not a respectable United States Citizen. I’m truly sorry I ever mentioned this to “Fuzzybear”, and that he approached you, asking for permission after the fact.

I would like to ask that your comments be promptly and officially rewritten accurately and redistributed in a subsequent Morning report and that I be notified when that is done.

Thank you for your time and attention on this matter.

 

Name and Adress

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quote:
Originally posted by Skaymus:

I want my plaNET BACKKK!!!!


 

Sorry, we held a tribal council, you've been voted off... icon_wink.gif

 

Nothing personal, I just couldn't resist responding to the tag line!

 

Some of the other posts though, wow. Makes me wonder if either a) some folks have been skipping their medication or :D too many hours have been spent listening to the Art Bell show.

 

I keep expecting to see a thread about either Big Brother caches where you wind up with an IRS audit if you go there or UFO caches where you wind up with a body cavity search and a creepy implant...

 

The NPS, in its typically bumbling way, is just trying to keep the average vistor experience to some of the most taxed natural environments in the US from degrading any faster than it already is. Education, advocacy, and exemplary behavior in unrestricted areas will take care of access issues in the long run.

 

Ranting about inalianable rights to stomp and stash and the evil nature of the regulators will simply set back the cause.

 

-jjf

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