compass_bearing_north Posted April 13, 2003 Posted April 13, 2003 Should spoilers be permitted on cache pages? Quote
+leatherman Posted April 13, 2003 Posted April 13, 2003 OK, the post a poll feature is officially off limits for you! I am the result of genetic manipulation of superior Geocacher DNA. Faster, stronger with superior reasoning and logic. Mokita! Quote
+Nurse Dave Posted April 13, 2003 Posted April 13, 2003 What's the problem? They are usually labeled as such and you don't have to read them or look at the pictures. ---Real men cache in shorts. Quote
compass_bearing_north Posted April 13, 2003 Author Posted April 13, 2003 Good Thinking Why did I post this poll? Silly Me! Quote
Broncoholics Posted April 13, 2003 Posted April 13, 2003 quote: Good Thinking Why did I post this poll? Silly Me! It's ok, we all can be a clown sometimes. Upinyachit Our feet go where the caches are! Quote
BassoonPilot Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Nurse Dave & LKay:What's the problem? They are usually labeled as such and you don't have to read them or look at the pictures. That's true, of course; but what's the point? What is the compelling reason for putting spoiler information in logs? It seems an incredibly selfish and inconsiderate act to me ... do people who post spoiler information think the cache was placed merely for their enjoyment? I think each cacher should try to preserve any challenges/surprises for subsequent visitors. I am not suggesting that people shouldn't alert others to potential hazards associated with a cache or post corrections to bad coordinates in their logs. Quote
+briansnat Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 If an owner has a problem with a spoiler, he can encrypt it, or ask the finder to remove it from their post. There is also a warning above the log about the possible existence of spoilers in them, so those who don't want to see spoilers, can skip reading the logs until after they found the cache. We just had a spirited debate about this very subject in the Northeast forum. "You can only protect your liberties in this world, by protecting the other man's freedom. "You can only be free if I am" -Clarence Darrow Quote
BassoonPilot Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat: There is also a warning above the log about the possible existence of spoilers in them, so those who don't want to see spoilers, can skip reading the logs until after they found the cache. Yeah, we all know about the warning. So what? What in our litigious society doesn't have some type of warning attached to it these days? I'm waiting for someone to provide a compelling reason for placing spoilers in logs. Just one. Is there even one? And no, "because I can" is NOT a compelling reason. Quote
+briansnat Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 There are different levels of spoilers. Many like to use the log to recount their adventures. Mentioning where you parked and the route you took to the cache site is all part of it. Personally, I find these logs much more interesting than the "Found it, TNLN, thanks" variety. If what you people mean by spoilers are entries like "I parked at the end of Maple Lane, bushwacked to the top of the ridge and followed the ridgeline in the direction of the cache", I have no problem with those and in fact I'm often guilty of these types of entries. To some it may be a spoiler, but nobody is being forced to read it. Besides, my way to the cache isn't necessarily the easiest. Now if someone writes "I found the cache under the white boulder between the two small oak trees", that's a different story. In this case, if I were the cache owner I'd ask that the log be changed. "You can only protect your liberties in this world, by protecting the other man's freedom. "You can only be free if I am" -Clarence Darrow [This message was edited by BrianSnat on April 14, 2003 at 07:44 AM.] Quote
umc Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 I agree, I can't stand when someone places a spoiler in a log. The only help I may like is if the cache coords are more than 100 feet off. Other than that I don't like when a cache finder feels they are justified to spoil the owners caches becuase they think everyone else is dumber than them. Is usually the new cachers that do this? I sort of think so. ______________________________________________________________________________________ So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again. Quote
geoStrider Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 Spoilers are ok if the poster makes sure that readers know that the post contains spoiler info and has encrypted that applicable portion of the post. Spoiler photos should not be allowed except by link and then only with proper language indicating the nature of the spoiler photo. On some caches, the "twist" the cache owner incorporated is the best part of the cache, and it is unfair for a previous finder to ruin it for those that follow. So sayeth the evil lizard. I've never been lost, but I was a might bewildered for three days once. Daniel Boone Quote
+JohnnyVegas Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat:If an owner has a problem with a spoiler, he can encrypt it, or ask the finder to remove it from their post. There is also a warning above the log about the possible existence of spoilers in them, so those who don't want to see spoilers, can skip reading the logs until after they found the cache. We just had a spirited debate about this very subject in the http://ubbx.Groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=5726007311&f=7316058331&m=54460173 _"You can only protect your liberties in this world, by protecting the other man's freedom. "You can only be free if I am" -Clarence Darrow_ I have had two spoilers post my caches, I just deleted them. Quote
BassoonPilot Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat:There are different levels of spoilers. Many like to use the log to recount their adventures. Mentioning where you parked and the route you took to the cache site is all part of it. I, too, like to recount my adventures in my logs; writing an interesting/entertaining log without divulging information the owner of the cache chose not to provide is not terribly difficult. One can say a great deal without giving anything away ... I especially like logs that divulge little or nothing to someone who hasn't visited a cache but speak volumes to those who have visited it. One can mention they parked "near a trailhead" or "in the parking lot" or ".5 miles indicated from the cache" without revealing any specifics. Similarly, one can write that they followed "well-marked trails to within yards of the cache" without providing the exact route. Descriptions of scenery and events that transpired along the way make for good reading, give a flavor for the adventure but reveal nothing. Comments like "there were many (or few) potential hiding spots" provides a hint of what is in store, while "I looked in every nook-and-cranny in the rocks (fallen tree, pile of leaves, etc.) before I finally found the cache" is just as much a spoiler as "I found it under the only white rock for fifty yards." (Unless, of course, the cache owner had specified how/where the cache would be found in the main body of the cache description.) To me, such information isn't "part of the adventure" and cheapens the cache and the experience for any who read the logs ... regardless of whether they had previously found or intend to seek that cache. That said, I repeat what I've stated in similar threads: I don't take issue with people putting information in their logs that warn others of potential hazards. I don't take issue with cachers posting parking coordinates/access points not provided by the cache owner if the access point is especially difficult to locate or access from alternate points would require trespassing. And yes, I realize that cache owners make mistakes too and sometimes accidently leave out essential information. I can understand an early finder including such information in their log. Been there, done that ... (as finder and cache owner.) [This message was edited by BassoonPilot on April 14, 2003 at 08:18 AM.] Quote
BassoonPilot Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 quote:Originally posted by umc:I agree, I can't stand when someone places a spoiler in a log. ... Is usually the new cachers that do this? I sort of think so. Yes; it's only done by us newbies with fewer than 5,000 finds. quote:Originally posted by Geo Strider:On some caches, the "twist" the cache owner incorporated is the best part of the cache, and it is unfair for a previous finder to ruin it for those that follow. I couldn't agree more. Such twists/surprises shouldn't even be hinted at; I feel the log should be written so that only the cache owner and other finders know-what-you-know. Quote
+Mopar Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BassoonPilot:That said, I repeat what I've stated in similar threads: I don't take issue with people putting information in their logs that warn others of potential hazards. I don't take issue with cachers posting parking coordinates/access points not provided by the cache owner _if_ the access point is especially difficult to locate or access from alternate points would require trespassing. I would just add I make a special exception for 1 star terrain caches that should be rated higher. If it's rated 1 star terrain (handicapped accessible) and you need to jump a ditch or bushwhack 75ft up a hill to reach the cache area, I Will mention that so people who are looking specifically for caches where they can bring a wheelchair or baby stroller can decide if they still want to attempt the cache or not. Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon. Quote
+Mad_Hatter Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 There's a warning about possible spoilers on every cache page. I'm somewhat surprised that people who are dead set against spoilers read logs before they go to caches. Quote
BassoonPilot Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Mad_Hatter:There's a warning about possible spoilers on every cache page. I'm somewhat surprised that people who are dead set against spoilers read logs before they go to caches. I'd wager you'd also be surprised to learn that people post forum responses without having read the entire thread. On a serious note and despite the warning, can you think of a legitimate reason for people to post "spoilers" in their logs? I would sincerely like to know why some people, especially those who make a habit of it, feel it is necessary to include spoilers in their online logs, and what purpose they think those spoilers serve? There have been several threads similar to this one both recently and not-so-recently, and I've never seen a viable reason presented ... the only reason I've ever seen was "because there's a warning." That's not a reason; that's an excuse. I also like Mopar's addendum ... I agree with him that many caches with a terrain rating of 1 are in fact underrated, and knowing the true site conditions in advance might be necessary for some folk. [This message was edited by BassoonPilot on April 14, 2003 at 01:21 PM.] Quote
martmann Posted April 14, 2003 Posted April 14, 2003 quote:Originally posted by BassoonPilot: quote:Originally posted by Mad_Hatter:There's a warning about possible spoilers on every cache page. I'm somewhat surprised that people who are dead set against spoilers read logs before they go to caches. I'd wager you'd also be surprised to learn that people post forum responses without having read the entire thread. That's funny I also like what you said here: quote:Originally posted by BassoonPilot:One can say a great deal without giving anything away ... I especially like logs that divulge little or nothing to someone who hasn't visited a cache but speak volumes to those who have visited it. My only reason for posting (encrypted) vague spoilers in a log was to fully tell the story. But you're right, and your way just adds another challenge to the game. Cool. _________________________________________________________ If trees could scream, would we still cut them down? Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason. Click here for my Geocaching pictures Quote
+Mad_Hatter Posted April 15, 2003 Posted April 15, 2003 I did read through the thread, but the two thoughts were connected and that's why I wrote my post that way. I do have to say that I found your response amusing though. Quote
BassoonPilot Posted April 15, 2003 Posted April 15, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Mad_Hatter:I did read through the thread, but the two thoughts were connected and that's why I wrote my post that way. I do have to say that I found your response amusing though. Glad to be of service. You may have missed this line: quote:Originally posted by BassoonPilot:To me, such information isn't "part of the adventure" and cheapens the cache and the experience for any who read the logs ... regardless of whether they had previously found or intend to seek that cache. Speaking only for myself, I don't usually read (any) logs before seeking a cache, but reading the spoilers left by subsequent visitors that remove every challenge/reveal every detail and surprise about a cache is irksome, especially if the cache was more than just a 1/1.5 "dash-and-grab." I would be interested to learn if you can offer a legitimate reason why spoilers should be included in logs, and why those who have found a cache should not strive to preserve the cache experience (including any challenges, twists or surprises the cache owner had intended) for subsequent visitors? Isn't the logbook that each (physical) cache is required to contain the place for cachers to "spill their guts" and boast about their exploits, trials and tribulations, etc..? Certainly, subsequent finders of the cache would be the most appreciative audience. [This message was edited by BassoonPilot on April 15, 2003 at 06:38 AM.] Quote
Dinoprophet Posted April 15, 2003 Posted April 15, 2003 I want so badly to tell people about my favorite cache adventure, but all the good parts would spoil the cache. I have a huge detailed writeup stored away that I shared with the hider, and I said in my spoilerless online log that I'd share it with future finders upon request (only three others have found it in about a year). I'll sometimes post vague things like where I parked. I'll usually encrypt those logs. "Winter's just the curtain. Spring will take the bow" -- Richard Shindell, Spring Quote
BassoonPilot Posted April 15, 2003 Posted April 15, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Dinoprophet:I want so badly to tell people about my favorite cache adventure, but all the good parts would spoil the cache. I have a huge detailed writeup stored away that I shared with the hider, and I said in my spoilerless online log that I'd share it with future finders upon request ... This is an excellent solution, which I have used and seen others use on numerous occasions. Quote
+Marky Posted April 15, 2003 Posted April 15, 2003 I have two difficult caches that state that find logs will be deleted if they contain spoilers. Normally though, I tolerate them. --Marky "All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr" Quote
+Mad_Hatter Posted April 15, 2003 Posted April 15, 2003 I think that people have varying ideas of what constitues a spoiler. I'm sure we all agree that something like, "Hey it's under this rock" and then posting a picture would be considered a spoiler. Lesser information is a gray area. I'm guessing that many people post details of their cache hunting experience without realizing that others would consider it a spoiler. Quote
+flask Posted April 15, 2003 Posted April 15, 2003 theories you come up with before you know the answer ought to be fair game, if you don't tip your hand. for example: "i did a little research on the kinds of mechanisms that are common in this kind of puzzle, and then the answer came to me." but you don't say which theory you were considering when you had your epiphany. it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six. Quote
+High Desert Fish Posted April 15, 2003 Posted April 15, 2003 Why can't they just sit at home and make some computer viruses while we Cache? Quote
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