Pantalaimon Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 What do people think of a weekly geocaching event run on the same idea of weekly paintball events? What I mean is, I was thinking of organizing a weekly contest that I'd advertise in a couple local papers at first. The idea would be that people can show up that Saturday and compete. There would be an entry fee, and a prize based on the amount of entrants. Each team would receive a GPSr to use for the event, or they could bring their own. Prior to the event, I would carefully research and beta test a series of 10 geocaches in the surrounding areas, the caches would form a general ring around the starting coordinates, evenly spaced apart. This series of 10 geocaches would, when combined, provide the coordinates for an 11th (which would also be somewhere near the starting coordinates, in the center of the ring). Each team (1 - 10 teams) would be given the coordinates for one of the randomly choosen caches. No team would start hunting for the same cache. Further, each cache would lead the team to another consecutive cache in the chain. Overall, the caches would lead in one big circle, so no matter where you start, you will eventually find your way to all ten. The first team that gets all the coordinates from the ten caches in the circle, and makes it to the 11th cache, wins the prize. The caches would have to move each week, for obvious reasons, but once I found an area for all 11 caches, they wouldn't have to move too, too much. I'm also thinking that there should be some twists to the caches, like puzzles to solve, or cryptic clues to overcome. Or maybe each puzzle contains some sort of "piece of the puzzle" to the final cache, like an overlapping map of some sort. These ideas would be inserted to make it more of an adventure, rather than just a straight "find the coordinates" event. Lastly, I suppose I'd have to think about every conceivable way someone could cheat, or make it harder for the other team. For example, people might rehide the cache differently, and harder; people might somehow change the clues leading to consecutive caches and I wouldn't find out until too late; people might steal my eTrex. So what do people think? Is this something they'd participate in? Any suggestions? Ideas for improvment? Thoughts on how people might cheat. I'm seriously thinking of investing in about 5 or so yellow eTrex and starting a game like this in Central Massachusetts. Thoughts? Pan Fact is that there is nothing out there you can't do, Yeah, even Santa Claus believes in you... Floyd of Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, from "Can You Picture That?" [This message was edited by Pantalaimon on October 20, 2003 at 01:54 PM.] Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted October 20, 2003 Author Share Posted October 20, 2003 I just thought of another way people might cheat: They might enter once to get an idea on where the caches are, mark waypoints, and then enter a second time and send a team member ahead to each cache location. Then they could call in where the cache is to the person and leap-frog in this manner to each leg. I know I haven't explained this well, but it is a way that people could conceivably cheat. I'd have to overcome that. Maybe the caches would still be in a circle formation, but you would go to random cahce in the circle. Or maybe the only way to overcome this is to have different locations each week... but that would take a lot more time. Maybe I come up with 30 locations, and only ten of the 30 are used each week in a random pattern. Suggestions? Pan Fact is that there is nothing out there you can't do, Yeah, even Santa Claus believes in you... Floyd of Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, from "Can You Picture That?" Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 If it takes a competition with big prizes to attract new people to geocaching in your area, I'd be asking myself if these were the kind of people I'd WANT to bring into the geocaching community. They'd be in for a disappointment once they discover the real world of broken McToys and golf balls. I personally prefer people finding our sport because they like one or more of the non-competitive, non-prize oriented attractions that it offers: family time, outdoors adventures, fun high-tech toys, etc. I didn't think geocaching was supposed to be about competition, at least in an organized sense as opposed to friendly rivalries about stats. I think the Magellan contest showed many of us some of the downside of turning geocaching into a free-for-all race for the prize. At least where I live, most of the veteran geocachers said "this isn't geocaching." Having rained on your parade, Pan, I do wish to say that I think that you have some excellent ideas here for a contest at an event cache. Something not quite so "commercial" sounding (weekly contests, entry fees, etc.) would be great and there are many many examples where it has worked in the past. x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x Next time, instead of getting married, I think I'll just find a woman I don't like and buy her a house. Quote Link to comment
+woodsters Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 One thing I would be leary of would be with insurance. I imagine paintball places have to carry insurance. Not sure if you could simply have them sign a waiver or anything. Other than that. I think a periodically type of thing like that would be cool. Brian www.woodsters.com My Stats Found: 70 Hidden: 2 Quote Link to comment
+geospotter Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 I agree with Lep that geocaching isn't a competitive sport, and that this isn't geocaching. So, call it something else and I think it sounds like fun! Maybe once a month instead of weekly, but I know I'd try it. And central Mass. is perfect for me. I know many people bemoaned the fact that there was no GPSGoldrush this year. It was great fun. This sounds very similar. Quote Link to comment
+cachew nut Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 Competition is not allowed. Some loser may get his feelings hurt. Quote Link to comment
ju66l3r Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 quote:Originally posted by cachew nut:Competition is not allowed. Some loser may get his feelings hurt. And we both know about hurt feelings, right, nut? dadgum those <edited> and <also-edited> baseball teams!... Now back to your regularly scheduled topic. EDIT: Better now, Pan? I feel your pain, trust me. -- http://magazine.audubon.org/features0101/goodwood.html [This message was edited by ju66l3r on October 20, 2003 at 02:46 PM.] Quote Link to comment
ju66l3r Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 quote:Originally posted by The Leprechauns:If it takes a competition with big prizes to attract new people to geocaching in your area, I'd be asking myself if these were the kind of people I'd WANT to bring into the geocaching community. Wow! Go go gadget negativity! Where did Pan say that this was necessary to draw people into geocaching?? This just sounds like a fun contest using geocaching and brains to win a prize. quote:They'd be in for a disappointment once they discover the real world of broken McToys and golf balls. I personally prefer people finding our sport because they like one or more of the non-competitive, non-prize oriented attractions that it offers: family time, outdoors adventures, fun high-tech toys, etc. We'll be sure to not let them wander that far south then once they're done having *FUN* up here with a little competition. This is really no worse than trying to be FTF or anything else. It still has the outdoor/high-tech attractiveness and there's NOTHING "family time" about my geocaching (single 20-something male)...so I don't see where that *needs* to be any part of "geocaching" as a whole for everyone's enjoyment of the game. As long as a person plays the game, the more the merrier. I don't think there's any reason to be so confining on what constitutes "the game" or "the players". quote:I didn't think geocaching was supposed to be about competition, at least in an organized sense as opposed to friendly rivalries about stats. I think the Magellan contest showed many of us some of the downside of turning geocaching into a free-for-all race for the prize. At least where I live, most of the veteran geocachers said "this isn't geocaching." ...Something not quite so "commercial" sounding (weekly contests, entry fees, etc.) would be great and there are many many examples where it has worked in the past. This isn't just to Lep, but also geospotter and anyone else who feels they can set the definition of geocaching to their own: I think if you use your GPSr to find a box in the woods placed by someone else with the game in mind, then it's geocaching. The trade/swap idea is important to the game, no doubts, but certainly not fully necessary unless you're talking about Geocaching.com (aka Groundspeak's game)...and even *then* it's not always necessary...aka micros, virtuals, etc. Pan, please keep me informed (Private Topic or e-mail) about how this develops. I'm in Boston and I'd probably come out for a round or two. My suggestion is that you can avoid cheating by requiring the answers to the puzzles in each cache. Even if a cheater were to go ahead of his official entry person(s) to find the caches (which could be too hard to matter if you moved them about 200-400 ft from last placement), they would still need to solve the puzzles. Stealing your eTrex would suck...maybe this is best as a BYO-GPSr? Changing hiding spots or clues is certainly not fair play...hmm...the only way to avoid that I guess would be chaining the boxes and writing in ink or something...maybe a handout at the beginning that has all the important numbers and the rest is just the textual context for the puzzle...I dunno. Of course, if a group comes in first and says they win...it could become null and void and fees kept if you check the caches and they didn't initial/sign in all of them and the caches were not where you placed them. This is all dependent on how expensive it is to enter and how expensive a prize is available (IOW, is someone going to go through this much trouble to cheat if the prize is a 30$ gift certificate and they have to pay 5$ to enter... -- http://magazine.audubon.org/features0101/goodwood.html Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted October 20, 2003 Author Share Posted October 20, 2003 Points all well taken. Let me respond to a few. First, weekly was a bad choice of words. While maybe an idea like this could eventually become weekly, I haven't the patience to put together something like this weekly. So, I might shoot for monthly to start out. Next, Lep, I wasn't suggesting the idea in order to "attract new people to geocaching" in my area. I just thought it might be a fun, potentially money-making scheme. Plus, its a game I'm interested in, that I've been doing for years, so I thought I'd turn it into something new. The idea wasn't to attract new cachers. The point was to try and make this idea commercial sounding, because to some extent it would be commercial. Woodsters. Excellent point. I shall have to investigate the idea of insurance and/or waivers. ju663r.... if you ever mention the name of that-team-of-which-I-will-not-speak-of-until-spring-training in my post again, I will exact my wrath upon your children's children's children. I am still bitter. 2004 is the year. Pan Fact is that there is nothing out there you can't do, Yeah, even Santa Claus believes in you... Floyd of Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, from "Can You Picture That?" Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted October 20, 2003 Author Share Posted October 20, 2003 Much better. Thank you. I don't mind, by the by, that you mentioned the Cubs. Pan Fact is that there is nothing out there you can't do, Yeah, even Santa Claus believes in you... Floyd of Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, from "Can You Picture That?" Quote Link to comment
ju66l3r Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 I figured...but I'd save cachew the same post by just editing them both at the same time.. -- http://magazine.audubon.org/features0101/goodwood.html Quote Link to comment
+woodsters Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 Pan, you can advertise it on my site if you would like. And if you wanna set up a page for it, let me know, we will do something there also. Perhaps entry forms they can print out, sign and send in could be downloaded there also, with of course rules and a map... I may be willing to throw in a Woodsters Outdoors T-shirt also as part of a prize. We can also make up soem t-shirts too. As far as the competition thing. It's what you make of the game (geocaching) and what it means to you. To some it may be a competition to others it's a way to get out and do those things. I'm sure biking started off as a leisure thing, yet they have competitions all the time and people still bike for leisure... Brian www.woodsters.com My Stats Found: 70 Hidden: 2 Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted October 20, 2003 Author Share Posted October 20, 2003 Woodsters, I certainly do appreciate the offers of support. This idea is very young, however, and only in the planning stage. If it ever goes anywhere, I will be sure to talk to you about your offers. Pan Fact is that there is nothing out there you can't do, Yeah, even Santa Claus believes in you... Floyd of Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, from "Can You Picture That?" Quote Link to comment
+geospotter Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 quote:Originally posted by ju66l3r:This isn't just to Lep, but also geospotter and anyone else who feels they can set the definition of geocaching to their own: I think if you use your GPSr to find a box in the woods placed by someone else with the game in mind, then it's geocaching. Whoa, calm down. I am certainly NOT trying to define the rules of geocaching. Geocaching.com has already done that, and I will play by their rules. Finding a box placed by someone else with a GPS is certainly geocaching. Finding other things may not be. Replace the box with a set of shaped paper punches and now you are more like orienteering, not geocaching. Use abilities other than a GPS and you drift even closer. I don't want to make this a competitive/non-competitive thread. Using a GPS does NOT make it geocaching. Change the methods, change the 'find', call it something else, and I'm in. Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted October 20, 2003 Author Share Posted October 20, 2003 Its a fair point to say that the term "geocaching" was inappropriate in this thread, and in this idea. It was used, however, to get the idea across, and not to imply that it would be in any way related to geocaching.com. There would be no "finds" to log on geocaching.com, and it wouldn't even be posted here I would imagine. This is just a place to get a few impressions on what people think of the idea. I apologize for the confusion. Pan Fact is that there is nothing out there you can't do, Yeah, even Santa Claus believes in you... Floyd of Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, from "Can You Picture That?" Quote Link to comment
+Mr. Snazz Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Pantalaimon:Its a fair point to say that the term "geocaching" was inappropriate in this thread, and in this idea. It was used, however, to get the idea across, and not to imply that it would be in any way related to geocaching.com. doesn't that make this thread off-topic? Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted October 20, 2003 Author Share Posted October 20, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Mr. Snazz:doesn't that make this thread _off-topic_? Hmm... well, let's see. The notice at the top of the general forum's main page says the following: Welcome to the Groundspeak forums, the location to discuss topics on Geocaching and GPS usage. (Emphasis added). Nope. This topic would not be "off-topic." In fact, the forum description tells me I can talk about "GPS usage." Anything else? Pan Fact is that there is nothing out there you can't do, Yeah, even Santa Claus believes in you... Floyd of Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, from "Can You Picture That?" Quote Link to comment
+Mr. Snazz Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Pantalaimon:Anything else? You smell funny. Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted October 20, 2003 Author Share Posted October 20, 2003 Well jeez... no argument here. (Now leave my thread alone). Pan Fact is that there is nothing out there you can't do, Yeah, even Santa Claus believes in you... Floyd of Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, from "Can You Picture That?" Quote Link to comment
+Team GPSaxophone Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 Pan, your idea sounds like a good contest to take place at an event cache. Have everyone start at the event, give each team an envelope with their starting coords and rule that teams must stay together. Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness Quote Link to comment
ju66l3r Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Pantalaimon:There would be no "finds" to log on geocaching.com, and it wouldn't even be posted here I would imagine. This is just a place to get a few impressions on what people think of the idea. Here = general forum? or Here = geocaching.com? I'd imagine the highest return quotient for this event would be an ad/topic in the New England and Northeast forums (if it's a week long activity, then I guess Northeast might be out...depends on the skill necessary for the 10 puzzles. I'll check with my economics roommate, but my guess is that you'll grab more attention than a newspaper ad among a higher core constituency of interested parties and for much less cost (free, even) by posting in the forums when you're ready to go. Okay, I got all my big words out for the day... -- http://magazine.audubon.org/features0101/goodwood.html Quote Link to comment
Pantalaimon Posted October 20, 2003 Author Share Posted October 20, 2003 Fair points, all. However, I would tread carefully in posting such an event to the geocaching.com forums, especially if it could be classified as a for-profit endeavor. Pan Fact is that there is nothing out there you can't do, Yeah, even Santa Claus believes in you... Floyd of Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, from "Can You Picture That?" Quote Link to comment
+woodsters Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 quote:Originally posted by ju66l3r:(if it's a week long activity Not week long, but a weekly thing. Actually he said probably not weekly afterwards. Perhaps monthly. From what I gather a game that incorporates the use of GPSr's to find something that may also promote geocaching(sport, not the site) as well. I can see something like this being fun to do. Especially for those who want a challenge and chance to win something. They may actually go out and cache more to practice. Hey get a bunch of Garmin Geko 201's and have a Gekosmack championship...lol Brian www.woodsters.com My Stats Found: 70 Hidden: 2 Quote Link to comment
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