Please explain why..

[+briansnat]

quote:

---

I would say some of the suggestions of banning them seem much too harsh. They have created some interesting caches with interesting puzzles in the past and I hope they continue to do so.

---

 

Ban them, no. How about they limit theirselves to logging only caches, travel bugs and benchmarks that they actually found? Hmmmm, interesting concept.

 

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

[+La Paloma]

You said, "Yes, It certainly appears as though there has been some dishonesty on our end, for which we apologize."

 

Is this what I really heard? "We cheated on the finds and lied in the logs. We're really sorry we got found out."

 

"Sorry again & we will delete the bugs we have not physically had." We'll see. Folks will be watching.

 

As far as bogus finds being harmless..Cheating is not ever acceptable and it sets a horrible example for others-especially children. And cheating at something like Geocaching sends a very clear picture of someone's credibility.

 

[This message was edited by La Paloma on September 09, 2003 at 03:31 AM.]

[+BVCY Swim]

I know ES Ohio (main account owner) personally.

 

I've talked with him and I think he understands the situation now. I've been caching with him on several occasions in the Ohio/Kentucky area, and I can assure you he has actually been to those caches. Logging TBs as he does is not right, but he did say he'd fix that. I know nothing about the benchmarks issue, though.

 

As far as their (team) other questionable practices go, he's going to have to talk with the rest of his crew in other parts of the country. I reckon having kin know the account login name and password doesn't help the situation either.

 

He'll try to make it right.

 

Cheers ... BVCY Swim

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrianSnat:

quote:

---

I would say some of the suggestions of banning them seem much too harsh. They have created some interesting caches with interesting puzzles in the past and I hope they continue to do so.

---

 

Ban them, no. How about they limit theirselves to logging only caches, travel bugs and benchmarks that they actually found? Hmmmm, interesting concept.

 

_"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm_

---

[+beejay&esskay]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BVCY Swim:

 

As far as their (team) other questionable practices go, he's going to have to talk with the rest of his crew in other parts of the country. I reckon having kin know the account login name and password doesn't help the situation either.

 

He'll try to make it right.

 

Cheers ... BVCY Swim

---

 

Maybe something ES Ohio should consider is encouraging other members of ES to have their own user ID. ES College, ES DC, etc?

 

That way he wouldn't be accused of the indiscretions of others and people wouldn't be tempted to think it was just about the counts.

[+BVCY Swim]

quote:

---

Originally posted by beejay&esskay:

Maybe something ES Ohio should consider is encouraging other members of ES to have their own user ID. ES College, ES DC, etc?

 

That way he wouldn't be accused of the indiscretions of others and people wouldn't be tempted to think it was just about the counts.

---

I totally agree with you! I hope that's what he will consider - we'll see.

[+briansnat]

I don't think many have a problem with the team concept, though I do wonder why someone would have family members all over the country logging with the same account. If they lived in one house maybe. It is curious however that every member of this "team" uses the exact same format and language in their "find" logs. "Yippie, yahoo found it!"

 

The real issue is their obviously false finds. Finds on caches that were long gone. Logs that describe an area entirely different than the area the cache is in, etc...

 

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

[+xenophon10k]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrianSnat:

Yeah, he seems half legit. He's placed close to 170 caches (out of curiosuity, how does someone maintain 170 caches? I have enough trouble keeping up with 50). Which makes this all the worse. It's not some kid sitting at his PC "having fun". It's a real geocacher who is cheating to pump up his find counts. I wonder if he thinks he's fooling anyone.

---

 

I've seen his log entries in some of the caches I've vistited, and I volunteered to clean up one of his caches (so he doesn't manage to maintain all those caches).

 

Put that fweakin' sandwich down!

 

[This message was edited by cyclist1200 on September 09, 2003 at 11:34 AM.]

[Dinoprophet]

After ES posted a suspicious log on one of my caches recently, a local who knows them personally asked them about it. They deleted the log on their own and said, through the third party, that one of their team who had abused the account before would no longer be allowed to use it. This was in late July.

 

Hey, didn't my renewal check clear?

[+Geofool]

The jig is up. No complaining here, just self-regulating. Without a stats page too...go figure.

 

GF

 

********************************************

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[martmann]

BassoonPilot wrote a very funny log on the 'R.A.C. evening meeting' cache, wish it was still there, cracked me up.

 

I got a log watch notification with it, I'd copy and paste it, but will let BassoonPilot if he feels like it.

 

___________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

[+Geofool]

quote:

---

Originally posted by martmann:

_BassoonPilot_ wrote a very funny log on the 'R.A.C. evening meeting' cache, wish it was still there, cracked me up.

 

I got a log watch notification with it, I'd copy and paste it, but will let BassoonPilot if he feels like it.

 

___________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

http://community.webshots.com/album/67423220KEECyy http://community.webshots.com/album/71654825qQctnv

 

You can forward it to me...I could use a good laugh.

 

GF

 

********************************************

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[Trogdor!]

The event has been "archived" by Mtn Man. Too bad he did, we could have had some real fun with this team.

 

When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

[+briansnat]

quote:

---

I've seen his log entries in some of the caches I've vistited, and I volunteered to clean up one of his caches (so he doesn't manage to maintain all those caches).

---

 

Nobody said all of his finds were bogus. But several that were pointed out earlier in this thread certainly were. This guy's been a well known fake for some time. This isn't an instance of a mistake, or two. Its a systematic pattern of cheating that's been going on for quite a while.

 

Their excuse for the fake TB logs was pretty lame too. If you want to follow a TB all you have to do is click on the "watch this travel bug" line.

 

It's funny how when cheaters are caught, they always blame someone else. Some mysterious family member, or employee had the password to their account and was logging fake finds. Yeah, right . Remember when Mr. Gigabyte was caught photoshopping his hand or himself onto photos and claiming fake locationless and virtual finds? He said it was an employee of his doing it. Gimme a break.

 

I know about how many finds I have and I'm sure everyone else here has a ballpark idea of what their own find count should be. If I noticed a sudden increase in mine, I'd investigate right away. Not months later after someone pointed it out in the forums.

 

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on September 09, 2003 at 01:06 PM.]

[+Team Lightfoot]

I had THIS Log on one of my travelbugs but never thought anything about it until I read this thread. Interesting.

[mckee]

quote:

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Originally posted by Team Lightfoot:

I had http://www.geocaching.com/track/track_detail.asp?ID=26129Log on one of my travelbugs but never thought anything about it until I read this thread. Interesting.

---

 

Good grief.

 

I have to wonder why they're inflating their numbers?

 

--------------------

This space for rent! Ask about our easy layaway plan!

[Team Kender]

What I don't get is how he/they are logging TBs they don't have without the serial number, unless he/they are just typing in random numbers and sees if it gets a hit.

 

Team Kender - "The Sun is coming up!" "No, the horizon is going down."

[+BusBoy]

tchrismer and I just found one of his HTGD caches on the north side of Columbus (the one that is in the rather creepy picture on the first page ) and we both wondered why all of his Columbus caches are being tended to/moved/adopted by by another user while still listed under the Electric Shaver's name.

 

Anybody know what the deal is with this guy? We'd rather not waste time looking for the caches that he's placed in Central (and all of) Ohio if he's just an empty suit or a part of a group that is trying to inflate their numbers.

[+Boundertom]

I just this evening found out about the irregularities with Electric Shavers finds. I just haven't had much time lately to read the forums. I am very sorry to hear about Electric Shavers apparent dishonesty. It seems that this would be a good time to explain my involvement with 3 of his caches. 2 0f these were MUST MOVE caches located in the Cincinnati area. In an email discussion this spring, when I was on a caching trip in Cincinnatti, ES asked me if I would want to take these, as well as my choice of select others up to Columbus. He said that he had too many caches in the area and had to spread them out. The cache listings will verify the MUST MOVE designation. I have never met ES personally and have had nothing but email conversations with him regarding the 3 caches I moved to Columbus. I am just now beginning to find out what has been going on with his logs. I moved these caches because I thought they were interesting and different. If it is an option, I will adopt at least one of the 3 caches I moved. I have already contacted the administration regarding this. I already have another one of these caches-GCDBB4-in my possession, because I hid it on my fathers property, my father has since passed away, and we recently sold the property. Needless to say, the new owner didn't want the cache left on the property. As a matter of fact, I have met several cachers at this location, and the logs will verify this. I have spent a fair amount of time moving, placing, and maintaining these caches, just because I thought they were unique and interesting.

 

Just to be clear, ALL of my finds are legitimate, and my association with Electric Shavers is limited to what I have described above. Even though I am by nature a solitary person, there are several cachers out there who have met me and can vouch that I am not a figment of Electric Shavers, or anyone elses, imagination!

 

[This message was edited by Boundertom on September 22, 2003 at 05:21 AM.]

[+BusBoy]

Didn't mean to imply that the person mentioned (Boundertom) in my previous post had any hand in ES's cache find/hiding issues. I was just concerned that the ones that had not been adopted/removed were going to linger in local searches and that we might spend time hunting caches that are not there.

 

To his credit, I believe that Boundertom recently paid a visit to the HTGD cache that tchrismer and I found and spruced it up quite a bit.

 

Hope that clears things up.

[+woodsters]

I had emailed ES back around the middle of this month, when I noticed he had a find on a cache or some caches in an area nearby. I started looking at more and more of their logs and it appeared that they same thing was being logged on them and in many different places on the same day. I emailed him and questioned the bogus finds. He replied back that his 10 year niece in DC logged about 100 travel bugs in sequential order.

When placed back in caches, they showed as finds. He also said a nephew in Florida went on a little drinking & caching excursion and that he thniks they gave too many people the password to the account. At the time of the email he said that they were banned from caching for dishonesty and said it was "certainly fair". He also stated that they started deleting the bogus entries when they figured it out, but it was too late and that he believes the bogus ones are gone. He started to say something else, but the email was cut off in a mid sentence, so not sure what else was going to be said. '

 

With that being said, I still believe that there are a bunch of bogus finds on their list. He said they get around a lot for work, but it appears to be "A LOT" of getting around and to places you wouldn't expect them to go to on business.Not saying it couldn't happen, but it does raise an eyebrow.

 

Brian

www.woodsters.com

[+beejay&esskay]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:

He replied back that his 10 year niece in DC logged about 100 travel bugs in sequential order.

Brian

http://www.woodsters.com

 

You can place TBs back with a note rather than a find.