Please explain why..

September 6, 2003

For you more experienced geocachers...Please explain why a cacher would log a whole bunch of travel bugs they do not have (and have not had)- out and back into a whole bunch of caches they haven't visited?? (Out and back in to the same cache.)

This happened two days ago on one of my caches that's been archived for a while. The cache was stolen and the bug with it almost a year ago. This particular cacher has done the same on lots of other caches. Just wondering. Thanks.

[This message was edited by La Paloma on September 06, 2003 at 07:25 PM.]

38.2k · September 6, 2003

Because they're jerks.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

September 6, 2003

That's sorta what I suspected. According to their profile they've been in 10 states from California to New York-from Ontario to Florida plus Australia-in the last 7 days...just logging travel bugs out and back in to the same caches. Sure looks funny.

38.2k · September 6, 2003

One reason to make sure your TB number doesn't appear in any logs or photos.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

September 6, 2003

report him and have his screen name banned.

September 7, 2003

Well, I did a search on the forum and apparently this cacher is known for creating false logs. Electric Shavers..

2.3k · September 7, 2003

Hence it be known, Electric Shavers is a weenie!

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow

September 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by La Paloma:
Well, I did a search on the forum and apparently this cacher is known for creating false logs. Electric Shavers..

He definitely has some issues. Not sure what he thinks he's doing here. Like to know what his justification is for doing so.

GF

********************************************

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

September 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Doc-Dean:
Hence it be known, Electric Shavers is a weenie!

That's putting it mildly. Go to his stats,

Electric Shavers Stats Page

There are a large number of "erroneously" logged travel bug placements due to what he says are small hard to read numbers. Much of what he's logging is bogus. I've noticed that the Benchmark guys are also talking about his bogus logs.

So how do we flag admin to look into this guy?

When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

3.8k · September 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
One reason to make sure your TB number doesn't appear in any logs or photos.

That's why I always use Photoshop to blur out the number when taking photos of my TBs or those I find. Just makes good sense, I tell ya.

~robert

Notice: Driver carries less than $20 cache.

2.3k · September 7, 2003

Just email admin with your findings and suspecions and let them take it from there...

Contact Administration

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow

September 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by mrkablooey:

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
One reason to make sure your TB number doesn't appear in any logs or photos.

That's why I always use Photoshop to blur out the number when taking photos of my TBs or those I find. Just makes good sense, I tell ya.

I noticed that there was one TB that had the # in the photo ES had logged. I looked through many of the other bugs he hda logged and there is no readily apparent bug # revealed. I'm wondering if he is just inputting random TB numbers and seeing what he comes up with.

I'm going to report my own post in an attempt to get admins attention.

When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

38.2k · September 7, 2003

Electric Shavers. They've been logging fake finds for some time. When La Paloma started this thread, I thought of them. I knew they were faking finds on caches, but I didn't realize that they were also faking TB movements too. Never figured out people like that. What's the point? I guess they're just pathetic people who need help. I feel really sorry for them (I say they and them, because they're supposedly a "team". In reality, it's probably an overweight 30 something guy, with bad acne who still lives with mom).

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

38.2k · September 7, 2003

quote:
That's putting it mildly. Go to his stats,

I knew he (or they) was a fraud when he logged a find on a NJ cache and said it was a "nice area and cache" and the "hike wasn't bad". In reality, there is no hike to the cache. You drive up to within 10 feet of it and it's in a disgusting, garbage strewn strip between a highway and an industrial park. He either never was in the area, or is being real nice about his cache logs. I think it's the former.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

September 7, 2003

I think he's just putting in random numbers and logging a bug if the numbers hit. Anyway I deleted his log on mine. (However I cannot delete the fake bug log. )

In my relatively short time caching this is the first GeoJerk I've run across.

You guys are great...Thanks..You've restored my faith!

Joan

aka La Paloma

September 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by mrkablooey:
That's why I always use Photoshop to blur out the number when taking photos of my TBs or those I find.

Personally, I just photograph the other side of the tag. Much easier than doctoring the photo afterwards....

Dave_W6DPS

My two cents worth, refunds available on request. (US funds only)

38.2k · September 7, 2003

quote:
In my relatively short time caching this is the first GeoJerk I've run across.

There are others. He/they just seem to be the most prolific.

If anybody has a find on their cache from this guy, or group, be sure to check your log book to make sure its legit.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

September 7, 2003

Two words, first one "Dumb" second one... (hint, not "idiot")

"I'm not Responsible... just ask my wife, She'll confirm it"

September 7, 2003

He's been a hot topic on one of the Aussie forums too. His local logs have since been deleted. As one of our Aussie cachers remarked, he would need a private jet to move around like he expects us to believe.

[This message was edited by maccamob on September 07, 2003 at 11:03 PM.]

September 7, 2003

As a relatively enthusiastic benchmarker the phrase:

Whoooohoooo, yippie, whahoo,

I found it as described.

Thanks to INSERT PREVIOUS FINDER'S NAME HERE for description & photos.

very helpful

ELECTRIC SHAVERS

really makes me sick to my stomach. And to think he has logged over 750 of these bogus BMs. That really pisses me off

September 8, 2003

I bet his profile photo is fake too, but here it is:

___________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

September 8, 2003

So what are TPTB able to do about people/teams behaving in this way? This has the potential to really screw with the trust aspect of geocaching ... I'd hate to have to check every cache every time someone logged it, just in case they were faking!!

September 8, 2003

Kinda reminds me of "the HAND" anyone remember that one, someone (a certain well known cacher) was photoshopping (oh Sorry His employee was photoshopping) His hand & Gps into bogus cache logs on Virtuals. He was da man! and came unstuck very publicly due to a fellow cacher called "cache police " ?? Maybe a disgruntled employee ? Or himself stirrin the pot cause no one noticed.

This new bogus cacher also seems to have certainly contributed to the cause, over 100 placed caches ?

Weird..

Just noticed that some og his logs from the related TB's have disappeared overnight as well ?

TP

38.2k · September 8, 2003

Yeah, he seems half legit. He's placed close to 170 caches (out of curiosuity, how does someone maintain 170 caches? I have enough trouble keeping up with 50). Which makes this all the worse. It's not some kid sitting at his PC "having fun". It's a real geocacher who is cheating to pump up his find counts. I wonder if he thinks he's fooling anyone.

He really gets around. Last week he found caches in NC and FLA on one day. Long Island and Illinois the next and bagged caches in Ontario, California, Colorado, Indiana, Oregon and Mexico in the same week. I'd hate to see his gasoline bill.

And don't give me the bull that fake finds are harmless and he isn't hurting anything but his own reputation. Fake finds can entice others to waste their time looking for a cache that may be long gone. They also tell the owner that all is well with the cache, when there in fact may be problems that need to be addressed.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

September 8, 2003

Here's another sorta strange thing. He's hosting an event Oct 3. (See profile under Items Owned.) And the only reply is from some the other names he uses when he places caches.

I think he's playing a different game than the rest of us...

September 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
Yeah, he seems half legit. He's placed close to 170 caches (out of curiosuity, how does someone maintain 170 caches? I have enough trouble keeping up with 50)._

Actually many (if not most) of his hides have been archived.

When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

September 8, 2003

So he's claiming he's finding caches with travel bugs, then placing them immediately back into those same caches to "monitor their movements"???? Maybe we can turn his logs into virtual geocaches? Then the cache owners who are blessed by one of his virtual-reality visits can claim a virtual cache!

--------------------

This space for rent! Ask about our easy layaway plan!

38.2k · September 8, 2003

Everyone should go and post "found its" on his event cache. Wouldn't that be funny?

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

September 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
Everyone should go and post "found its" on his event cache. Wouldn't that be funny?

_"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm_

Great idea...what is the GC#?

GF

********************************************

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

38.2k · September 8, 2003

Here it is. You'll notice he posted the event under another name, but then posted a note under the Electric Shavers name saying what a great idea it was. What a weirdo!

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

September 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=1d6030a5-1ce6-4094-bc73-2be2e0bf3acf it is. You'll notice he posted the event under another name, but then posted a note under the Electric Shavers name saying what a great idea it was. What a weirdo!

_"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm_

Unbelievable....is this guy for real?

GF

********************************************

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

1.3k · September 8, 2003

"Electric Shavers" wants you to think they are a team. They seem, at the most charitable, to be an extended family scattered around several states who all log under the same handle. (In my opinon, that's not what a team should be.) They are often commented upon in the Benchmarking forum, where their bona fides have been questioned based on their failure to ever post photographs or provide any specific information about benchmarks found, or to rarely if ever be the first to log a particular benchmark (always making certain that someone else has verified its existence first) - strongly suggesting they might not actually be visiting the benchmarks at all!

Now, there is no requirement to have a camera to participate in geocaching.com activities, but you don't have to be wealthy or unusually literate to enter a log that gives some actual evidence of your visit. In my view, the evidence strongly suggests Electric Shavers is not in fact visiting many if not most of the benchmarks and caches they claim to have visited. I think the evidence should be equally plain to the administrators of this site, who have thus far failed to act in the face of apparent blatant abusers of the site.

Interestingly, despite the harsh criticism of Electric Shavers in this and other geocaching.com forums, to the best of my knowledge ES has never attempted to defend itself. Perhaps I'm mistaken, and I would be happy to correct the record if they have in fact posted in an effort to correct the record.

September 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
Everyone should go and post "found its" on his event cache. Wouldn't that be funny?

Logging fake finds? No thanks.

____________________________

- Team Og Rof A Klaw

All who wander are not lost.

September 8, 2003

Wow, I know about ES from the benchmarking forum. Logging fake finds or even BMs is just kinda stupid and worthless but doesn't really harm anyone. But logging bogus TB kinda sucks if it's not Electric Shavers own TBs.

Team Kender - "The Sun is coming up!" "No, the horizon is going down."

September 8, 2003

Electri Shavers have never posted atleast under that name. So guessing they dont read the forums to defend themselves. As for logging TB's. Since this site keeps track of "FOUND" TB's, maybe they don't wish to take one and move it elsewhere. They still "FOUND" it they just chose not to move it. I myself being new have "FOUND" more TB's than are logged only because I didnt know if I should log them even though I didn't "TAKE" them. I also don't do a lot of trading, and was not really sure if taking a TB and not trading for it was acceptable. Though I see since it is just relocating don't need to actually trade it.

Atleast by them logging the TB out, then back in the same cache atleast lets people and owners know that thier TB is still out there and not just sitting in a cache or worse yet, stolen.

I bought a GPS. Now I get lost with style.

8.9k · September 8, 2003

Interesting that they have a "found it" log on this cache.

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

2.3k · September 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Markwell:
Interesting that they have a "found it" log on http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=4456.

Especially since he logged a find after the cache was reported missing and probably archived.

If he is looking for attention, he is certainly getting it here...

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow

8.9k · September 8, 2003

Never mind. I posted something, but it was not worth posting...

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

2.1k · September 8, 2003

Was just looking at that Markwell...lol

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

September 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Dream Alchemist:
Atleast by them logging the TB out, then back in the same cache atleast lets people and owners know that thier TB is still out there and not just sitting in a cache or worse yet, stolen.

This is exactly the problem though. If they are bogus logs, then the TB owner thinks it is somewhere that it is not. Apparently the situation La Paloma started the thread with is bogus, unless the archived cache is still in place and ES decided to go caching for it anyway (at least I find that to be doubtful).

Team Kender - "The Sun is coming up!" "No, the horizon is going down."

2.1k · September 8, 2003

Read his logs...He most often writes...

quote:
Must have written the numbers down wrong.

Will place back in cache.

Thanks & sorry for inconvience

ELECTRIC SHAVERS

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

September 8, 2003

quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Dream Alchemist:

Atleast by them logging the TB out, then back in the same cache atleast lets people and owners know that thier TB is still out there and not just sitting in a cache or worse yet, stolen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't forget, the operative word is travel

2.1k · September 8, 2003

Brings up a good question. Do people really log a TB that they don't take out of a cache? I mean if you hit a cache and there's a TB in it, but you don't take it to help it along it's merry way, do you still log it? I know I don't. I don't consider it as a find really for me. Unless I move it to another location. Maybe it's just me?

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

38.2k · September 8, 2003

quote:
Brings up a good question. Do people really log a TB that they don't take out of a cache? I mean if you hit a cache and there's a TB in it, but you don't take it to help it along it's merry way, do you still log it? I know I don't. I don't consider it as a find really for me. Unless I move it to another location. Maybe it's just me?

No, you shouldn't log it unless you take it. And you defintely shouldn't log one that you never had.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

September 8, 2003

I don't know about you, but I am going to THIS meeting, and bringing all my imaginary travel bugs.

___________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

September 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
Everyone should go and post "found its" on his event cache. Wouldn't that be funny?

He'd probably get a kick out of it. Maybe everyone could post "looking forward to the event" notes followed by a "went geocaching and skipped your virtual event" on the event day.

September 8, 2003

Yes, It certainly appears as though there has been some dishonesty on our end, for which we apologize. Certain crew members of our team enjoy watching travel bugs as they go around. Obviously, we did not mean to offend. From What I’ve seen, we always put them back where they were, and did not know anyone was keeping score or that this was a problem. We have 7 bugs & always figured that as many people grabbed them the better.

I guess we were wrong.

Sorry again & we will delete the bugs we have not physically had.

ELECTRIC SHAVERS

1.4k · September 8, 2003

Yes, It certainly appears as though there has been some dishonesty on our end, for which we apologize.

Is this also the case for some questionable benchmark finds?

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

2.7k · September 8, 2003

quote:
This new bogus cacher also seems to have certainly contributed to the cause, over 100 placed caches ?

I don't know how many of es caches are real, but I have found one of them and my brother-in-law has found several.

Obviously not all of his/her/their posts are bogus.

I noticed a LOT of archived caches listed under es name.

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

2k · September 8, 2003

I rise in partial defense of E-S:

From what I've read, they are a family group of at least 3 active cachers, several of whom have the opportunity for a lot of travel in their jobs.

They are certainly much more than mere count-inflaters. They have created a significant number of caches. I've been to several of them. I don't know of any of them that are bogus. Similarly, the travel bugs they own can't have been made up...

I have heard they've logged finds where they haven't made an entry in the cache log. Bogus entries? I don't know.

I know of at least one case where they logged a TB out of and into the same cache, I'm pretty sure without visiting that cache. They were part of a 3+ person exchange of TBs. Except for the minor point that this inflated their cache found count (where a note would have accomplished the same purpose), it doesn't seem that inflating the count of the number of TBs one has handled hurts anyone.

I'm not sure what to make of their benchmark logs. They almost always seem to log entries that others have found. Bogus logs that don't hurt because another cacher has found the benchmark? Or else going after easy marks that they know are there? I'm not sure. I do know of at least one benchmark they looked for and logged as not finding. Why do that if you are trying to inflate your "find" counts?

I've probably spent too much time worrying about this, but since they are "local" and I've visited some of their caches, I've been trying to figure it out.

I would say some of the suggestions of banning them seem much too harsh. They have created some interesting caches with interesting puzzles in the past and I hope they continue to do so.

Please explain why..

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