NPS poll.

[mcb]

So do you think the NPS will ever open up to Geocaching?

[+Macro]

The key to getting NPS to move on an isssue like this is standarization. If we could present them with a standard container, with standard labeling, and a set of criteria for placing it (that did not infringe on current rules and regs) they may eventually go for it.

 

Heres the problem with that. Standardizing caches will take the fun out of creating your own. Rather than dream up a location, you would have to follow guidlines. Using a standard container means that one has to be picked, and then we all have to buy that one, meaning this site will have to start endorsing whoever makes them.

 

More to the point, not infringing on the current rules and regs would probably exclude us from hiding a cache pretty much anywhere, regardless of how enviro-friendly we attempt to make it.

 

Bottom line is that unless we work with NPS to create a definition of geocaching that both parties can agree upon, permission may never be granted. Unfortunately this means both of us will need to compromise, not just NPS, if we ever want to make this happen.

[teamwsmf]

Folks, as much as I know it will raise the hackles on some people, I think the idea must be mentioned.

 

Does Geocaching need to be accepted with open arms by every reulatory, stewardship, or governing body in order for it to go on?

 

Heck no. If we wait for that we will be six feet under hosting illegal "Gravecaches".

 

Now the question becomes not so much "what do we do to make them love and accept us" but rather "How do we work around the system to do what we want"

 

Sure it would be great if one day NPS rangers knew and accept geocachers and thier activities with warm glowy feelings, but in the mean time...

 

Life is short, bureauocracy is long.

 

---the road less travled

 

-tom

 

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TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

[+geospotter]

I doubt they will ever allow the placement of unauthorized items within their parks. They probably would go for something more like "GeoTrekking". They'd provide you with GPS coordinates of "virtual" type caches (great waterfall, maybe a sign with a code, etc.). That way there is no abandoned property, you stay on trails, and locations are pre-determined. It's really not a whole lot different than what we'd LIKE to do, except that THEY get to determine locations (perhaps with some input from cachers) and non-cachers can play using maps. Actually, not a bad compromise, and it is already being done in some local parks

[+Rich in NEPA]

I did not vote on this one because I believe it asks the wrong question. Here's my reasoning, and perhaps someone here can tell me what I'm missing:

 

I, for one, am not convinced that it's such a good idea to allow Geocaches in the Nat'l Parks System, but (and this is important) not for many of the reasons typically cited. Let's face it ... the Nat'l Parks represent such a tiny portion of the lands that are already available to us. The Nat'l Parks are more than familiar to all of us as places of uniqueness and nearly pristine beauty, so much so that we don't need contrived incentives to get us to visit them. What exactly is the point of placing a Geocache in one of them anyway? I see it mostly as a case of "placing caches on a whim."

 

I can easily admit that the Parks are spectacular, and for the first-time visitor the experience can indeed be so overwhelming that they can't resist the urge to pass it along to others, and the first thought that comes to mind as Geocachers is, why not put one here? Yet, so many of our own local parks are under-utilized and under-appreciated. When I'm out Geocaching I really am hoping to be taken to some obscure location and shown some unique aspect which I probably wouldn't have found or known about on my own. Others times I want a challenging hike or mountain bike ride and having a superficial goal like a Geocache can add an air of purpose to it. There are so many places just like this in my own backyard that it truly amazes me whenever someone points them out! It doesn't always have to be the grand scenic ... here in the East many of us are used to discovering the "remarkable" on a microcosmic scale. A quiet grove of hemlocks. A rippling brook. Cascading miniature waterfalls. An isolated meadow brimming with wildflowers. These kinds of things aren't on any maps, spelled out with big, bold letters proclaiming "National Tourist Attraction!" Personally, I prefer it the way it is.

 

I do try to avoid the Nat'l Parks during their busiest seasons. I'm not in favor of keeping people out of them, and even though I like to experience them from time to time in solitude, that's my own personal dilemma to work out. I've had some very fine experiences with people I've encountered on trails, summits, and overlooks. Therefore, I suggest leaving the Nat'l Parks out of the Geocaching picture simply because they don't need Geocaches. [bTW, I hunted and found a Geocache once in a Nat'l Park before it was finally removed and archived. At the time I was both enthused and a little uneasy about doing it, and soon after realized what it was that bothered me about it.] Cheers ... {flame shields on}

 

~Rich in NEPA~

 

 

=== A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ===

 

[This message was edited by Rich in NEPA on March 13, 2002 at 08:57 AM.]

[+misguided one]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rich in NEPA:

 

I, for one, am not convinced that it's such a good idea to allow Geocaches in the Nat'l Parks System, but (and this is important) _not_ for many of the reasons typically cited. Let's face it ... the Nat'l Parks represent such a tiny portion of the lands that are already available to us. The Nat'l Parks are more than familiar to all of us as places of uniqueness and nearly pristine beauty, so much so that we don't need contrived incentives to get us to visit them. What exactly is the point of placing a Geocache in one of them anyway? I see it mostly as a case of "placing caches on a whim."

---

 

I for one do not feel that a physical cache is appropriate in any Nat'l Park. Virtual Caches with "Cache In/ Trash Out" being the "physical" part of the cache is the ONLY way to go.

 

Wear your GEOCACHING logo items i.e. shirts, hats, tattoos, whatever. But also carry the trash sack with you and show the NPS officials that we as cache seekers are trying to make an effort to keep the parks clean and enjoyable for all who visit. And rather than waste time being upset with park rangers and their bosses for not allowing US to place caches in the parks, we should concentrate our efforts on caching in the Nat'l Recreation Areas, which would probably be an easier victory.

 

Lost? I'm not lost. At least I don't think I'm lost, well............OK, maybe just a little.

[teamwsmf]

Now correct me if Im wrong, but dont some NPs have logbook's situated in thier boundry's?

 

Sometimes they are at a trailhead, sometimes they are on the trail somewhere, sometimes near the visitor center.

 

Oh there are all kinds of things that can be done in that case:)-

 

Folks can sign the book with a common sign or symbol to indicate they are a Geocacher. Stamps ala letterboxing?

 

Then the site maintainer or the geocachers themselves can take a photo of the page and post it up.

 

The cache itself would have to be a multipart reflective/multidirective/count-the-rocks-on-the-trail-divide-by-pi/surroundings-based-clue type in order to make it interesting.

 

just some ideas.

 

F Scott Fitzgerlad

F Murray Abraham

F NPS

 

-tom

 

----------------------------

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

[teamwsmf]

Now correct me if Im wrong, but dont some NPs have logbook's situated in thier boundry's?

 

Sometimes they are at a trailhead, sometimes they are on the trail somewhere, sometimes near the visitor center.

 

Oh there are all kinds of things that can be done in that case-

 

Folks can sign the book with a common sign or symbol to indicate they are a Geocacher. Stamps ala letterboxing?

 

Then the site maintainer or the geocachers themselves can take a photo of the page and post it up.

 

The cache itself would have to be a multipart reflective/multidirective/count-the-rocks-on-the-trail-divide-by-pi/surroundings-based-clue type in order to make it interesting.

 

just some ideas.

 

F Scott Fitzgerlad

F Murray Abraham

F NPS

 

-tom

 

----------------------------

TeamWSMF@wsmf.org

[+bunkerdave]

IMO, I don't care if they do, since there are millions of other acres on which to place caches. It is not as if the NPS has a corner on interesting places. I have always been under the impression that geocaching was about sharing those little-known places that you enjoy with others who might enjoy them. When was the last time you saw ANY "little known" place in a National Park? Anything worth seeing has a parking lot, a tourist bus, a paved interpretive trail and a visitor center within 500 feet. What's challenging about that?

 

Let the NPS have the tourists, and let the tourists stay in the parks. It wil keep the real wilderness from getting as crowded as the parks already are.

 

bunkerdave