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Start it up, don't like it, shut it down???


Jomarac5

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

Perhaps instead of telling me that there is nothing wrong with a person being able to close their thread, you could tell me why it is right?


 

Why is it a wrong or right issue?

 

It *has* to be one or the other. The way it is now is the way it was decided at some point. That doesn't make it inherently right or inherently wrong. No one needs to defend it just because you're are demanding they should.

 

There are two alternatives, one had to be chosen some time in the past. This is it.

 

If you genuinely believe the current policy is wrong and you're not just making a mountain out of a molehill for the sake of it, then why not make your case in the gc.com board forum? If those that run the board agree with you maybe they'll change it.

 

________________________

What is caches precious?

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quote:
Jamie and Jason wrote:

Remember the Do You Read the Forums thread? You started it to see how many people hit the forums on a given week. When the week had passed, it was closed, because a week's worth of polling was adequate for you. Perhaps others would have liked to continue the TPBM part, or perhaps others would have rather seen how many people visited in, say, 2 weeks. But since it satisfied the original post, there was no need to continue. If others wanted to, they could have opened another thread to address their issues.


Of course I recall that thread. But the point is that I indicated a time limit -- that suited the purpose.

 

If someone asks a specific question that requires a definitive answer, such as "How do I download gpx files to my GPS?", then I can see no need to continue the discussion once an answer has been given. But when a question is posed to the community that is asking for opinions or open-ended responses, then the discussion time limit should also be open-ended unless there is a violation of the forum rules.

 

To give someone the means to close a thread just because the result of the topic goes against their own personal feelings about something, doesn't make sense.

 

This is a public forum. Which means that you may not agree with the opinions of others. And they may not agree with what you think. Whether you started the discussion or not, a discussion was started and it should be allowed to develop beyond the point of "If you agree with me, I'll let you talk".

 

*****

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quote:
Team AshandEs wrote:

If you genuinely believe the current policy is wrong and you're not just making a mountain out of a molehill for the sake of it, then why not make your case in the gc.com board forum? If those that run the board agree with you maybe they'll change it.


I already said that it is not a matter of right or wrong.

 

I'm trying to understand the logic behind the thread starter being able to close the thread. So far, I've received a number of replies that say that it is so, or that there are reasons for closing a thread, but no one has yet answered my specific question. I'm also not looking for GC to answer the question as I'm not requesting that the rule be changed. I'm asking for the thoughts of the community. I'm looking for some sound reasoning here. What's the logic of being able to close a thread that you started?

 

So far the only one reason has been stated -- that the question or purpose of the thread was satisfied. But what about open-ended discussions? Why are they allowed to be stopped by the person who started them? Please, please, someone point out the logic behind this.

 

*****

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Jomorac5,

I see what you're saying -- conversation should be open to different opinions and not censored by the poster simply because they don't agree with them.

 

At the same time, even if someone asks for personal opinions and open-ended responses, there will still be a point when the original poster's request is satisfied... perhaps they've gotten a feel for what the community thinks, or perhaps they've gotten enough input. When that happens, there's no need to continue. The purpose of the original post has been fulfilled.

 

The great thing about this being a public forum is that we're all free to post more opinions and responses if we feel we haven't been heard. If a discussion needs to continue beyond a closed thread, we all have the ability to start a new thread, so freedom of opinion is generally preserved.

 

Jaime

 

Jaime and Jason

Team Cacheopeia

 

image ©scienceandart.com -- used with permission

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

 

 

This is a public forum. Which means that you may not agree with the opinions of others. And they may not agree with what you think. Whether you started the discussion or not, a discussion was started and it should be allowed to develop beyond the point of "If you agree with me, I'll let you talk".

 

*****


Ok, if no one agrees with the topic starter, then there is no "discussion", it's an entirely one sided diatribe. I see no problem with a person discontinuing a discussion they started, especially if no one agrees with them. Are you mourning the loss of the ability to beat dead horses? What can be gained by continuing to add insult to injury?

 

[This message was edited by Bloencustoms on March 32, 1999 at 25:60 PM]

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quote:

So far the only one reason has been stated -- that the question or purpose of the thread was satisfied. But what about open-ended discussions? Why are they allowed to be stopped by the person who started them? Please, please, someone point out the logic behind this.

 

*****


Did you read my post on this?

Or Jamie and Jason's,

Or Ju66l3r's?

Remember, wherever you go- there you are!

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

I'm trying to understand the logic behind the thread starter being able to close the thread. So far, I've received a number of replies that say that it is so, or that there are reasons for closing a thread, but no one has yet answered my specific question. I'm also not looking for GC to answer the question as I'm not requesting that the rule be changed. I'm asking for the thoughts of the community. I'm looking for some sound reasoning here. What's the logic of being able to close a thread that you started?


 

That's what I meant though.

 

If there is no right and wrong then why does there need to be logic behind it? Maybe it's the default setting and no one ever saw any reason to change it. Maybe they flipped a coin. Maybe they drew straws.

 

Why are you so desperate for someone to point out the logic behind it if you don't want it changed? It just seems like such a non-issue unless you are genuinely bothered by it.

 

________________________

What is caches precious?

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No, he didn't and he didn't read mine either. He's on a roll and he won't stop till he hits bottom...which I'm guessing is about 3 more posts.

 

He has also chosen not to accept logical descriptions handed to him because they don't fit his definition of "public forum" and "open discussion". He is asking: "Given my view of how things go, why doesn't XYZ make sense?" but the problem is that his view is not the same view of the people who established equally valid definitions of "public forum" and "open discussion" as they are given by this board structure.

 

IOW, jomarac, you can continue asking until you're blue in the face (fingers?) but unless you realize your definitions for how discussions go in this forumspace are not applicable to the current setup, then you will never gain the answer that you seek.

 

This is NOT the completely open forum for the absolute discussion of the topics posted that you think or idealize it to be in the premises of your question.

 

Since your premise is faulty, your question is nullified and the answer you strive for does not exist. You've developed a circular logic within your question that can not be satisfied by any answer given, although those that have pointed out the control of a topic starter as I have by my "many rooms" analogy are about as close as you are going to get to an answer even with your faulty definitions.

 

--

 

http://magazine.audubon.org/features0101/goodwood.html

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quote:
Originally posted by Bloencustoms:

If I had started this thread, I'd be pretty happy I had the option to close it.

 

[This message was edited by Bloencustoms on March 32, 1999 at 25:60 PM]


 

Well there's the logic for Jomarac5 right there then....

 

Because it makes people happy

 

What better reason could there be icon_wink.gif

 

________________________

What is caches precious?

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quote:
Originally posted by Corp Of Discovery:

quote:
Originally posted by Doc-Dean:

Where is that guy selling peanuts and beer??

We need him in this thread!!


I'll take some cheese or caramel corn please!

 

Remember, wherever you go- there you are!


 

The heck with the cheese and peanuts, just give me the beer !!

 

Hey Jomarac5, you could close this thread if you like cheese and peanuts and my statement just pissed you off -- imagine that.

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quote:
Team AshandEs wrote:

Why are you so desperate for someone to point out the logic behind it if you don't want it changed? It just seems like such a non-issue unless you are genuinely bothered by it.


Call it intellectual curioustity. I'm just having a difficult time understanding the basic logic of being able to close a thread just because I don't like the direction that it's going.

 

quote:
ju66l3r wrote:

He has also chosen not to accept logical descriptions handed to him


Perhaps it's that your logic doesn't hold up when applied to my direct question?

 

btw: I have read all the posts on this thead.

 

quote:
ju66l3r wrote:

Since your premise is faulty, your question is nullified and the answer you strive for does not exist.


It does exist. You are just using non-logical assumptions to avoid the question, which is,

 

Why does the thread starter have the means to stop a discussion that he started if the forum conduct rules have not been violated?

 

*****

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:
CO Admin wrote:

The logic is simple, the owner of the thread asked for it to be closed. I complied. Whats more logical thank that. If you request it I would be happy to close this one for you.


 

Where did CO Admin say this? If the post was edited, I think I know why. I had no idea that I "owned" the threads that I started. I think that's pretty generous of Geocaching.com. Anybody want to buy one of my threads? I might put a few on Ebay and see what happens. icon_wink.gif

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. geol4.JPG

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quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

Where did CO Admin say this? If the post was edited, I think I know why. I had no idea that I "owned" the threads that I started. I think that's pretty generous of Geocaching.com. Anybody want to buy one of my threads? I might put a few on Ebay and see what happens. icon_wink.gif


No, but there are a couple I would be willing to pay you to take away! icon_razz.gif

 

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow 30296_400.gif

And may no Admin bricks 19490_2600.gif fly your way

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quote:
Seneca wrote:

quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:
CO Admin wrote:

The logic is simple, the owner of the thread asked for it to be closed. I complied. Whats more logical thank that. If you request it I would be happy to close this one for you.


 

Where did CO Admin say this? If the post was edited, I think I know why. I had no idea that I "owned" the threads that I started. I think that's pretty generous of Geocaching.com. Anybody want to buy one of my threads? I might put a few on Ebay and see what happens. icon_wink.gif

 


Wow. That's interesting -- looks like his/her post was edited after I quoted it. Hmmm...

 

There's at least one of your entertaining threads that I might be interested in bidding on. icon_wink.gif

 

*****

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Jomarac5, while it may seem to be immaturity to you I was only half joking. I am getting tired of all the complaints about the admins and how they do their jobs. The joking part was my stating how to close down this topic, you know me and if I wanted to close it down I could, its really rather easy. My point is simple alot of people, myself included, are tired of the complaining and whining going on. I am not saying you are the one causing this, there are alot of negative threads out there and it just getting boring hearing people Bi**h all the time. I like caching and have involved others in it. The thing is I will not recommand they visit the forum at this time because of all the negative posts going on. I am sure there are others with the same opinion, though I will not mention any names.

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

hikemeister, Doc-Dean, Xitron, and Corp of Discovery;

 

Not only is your attempt to derail this thread rude and uncalled for, but it shows the level of immaturity that you all express.

 

And you wonder why your comments are not given serious consideration. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

*****


Hmmmmm....having a bad night? Well if you would make up your mind as to which question you want answered maybe you would get the answer you seek. First you asked :"Why is the post that starts a thread different than any other post in that thread?", then: "What is the logic behind the starter of a thread being able to have it closed?", then:"Why does the thread starter have the means to stop a discussion that he started if the forum conduct rules have not been violated?". You have been answered by not only your fellow cachers but by an admin. We are just trying to salvage something out of this thread as it seems you are only interested in making waves, we might as well get at least some amusement out of it.

 

Remember, wherever you go- there you are!

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

quote:
Seneca wrote:

quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:
CO Admin wrote:

The logic is simple, the owner of the thread asked for it to be closed. I complied. Whats more logical thank that. If you request it I would be happy to close this one for you.


 

Where did CO Admin say this? If the post was edited, I think I know why. I had no idea that I "owned" the threads that I started. I think that's pretty generous of Geocaching.com. Anybody want to buy one of my threads? I might put a few on Ebay and see what happens. icon_wink.gif

 


Wow. That's interesting -- looks like his/her post was edited after I quoted it. Hmmm...

 

There's at least one of your entertaining threads that I might be interested in bidding on. icon_wink.gif

 

*****


 

On this quote of mine, I had a doublke post. when I deleted one post it seems to have taken both. I freely admit that I said the above words attributed to me

 

CO Admin

 

I work for the QOFE that works for the Frog

tongue.gif The Frog is my friend big_smile.gif

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quote:
Xitron wrote:

Jomarac5, while it may seem to be immaturity to you I was only half joking. I am getting tired of all the complaints about the admins and how they do their jobs. The joking part was my stating how to close down this topic, you know me and if I wanted to close it down I could, its really rather easy. My point is simple alot of people, myself included, are tired of the complaining and whining going on. I am not saying you are the one causing this, there are alot of negative threads out there and it just getting boring hearing people Bi**h all the time. I like caching and have involved others in it. The thing is I will not recommand they visit the forum at this time because of all the negative posts going on. I am sure there are others with the same opinion, though I will not mention any names.


Who's complaining about admins here? I'm not -- and I said so in the beginning of the thread.

 

If you want the thread closed so badly, then have it closed. Or you could be mature about it and simply ignore it if you don't wish to offer anything constructive to it.

 

I'm glad to hear that you're tired of the complaining - as am I. But why are you bringing this up here, I'm not complaining about anything -- I'm only trying to get a reasonable discussion going to determine a logical reason as to why a person who starts a thread, has the means of which to shut it down if they don't like the way the discusion is progressing. No complaining there -- only asking a question.

 

Sorry you feel embarrased to tell people about the forums, but that's your choice entirely. Perhaps if you and others kept discussions on topic, the forums wouldn't be so negative.

 

*****

edit: typo

 

[This message was edited by Jomarac5 on October 07, 2003 at 07:04 PM.]

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Corp of Discovery, no, I'm not having a bad night. Truth of the matter is, I very rarely do and can't remember the last time I had a bad day (or night). Thanks for asking though, your concern for my well being is appreciated.

 

As for the rewording of the question -- sometimes a question needs to be rephrased because some people don't fully understand and grasp it's meaning -- worded a little differently, hopefully they will comprehend it better. Obviously, this is relevant in this case, as my question has still not been answered (even though you seem to think that it has been).

 

If you can't answer my question, I hope that you will have the courtesy to not muddle up this thread with your off-topic diatribe and allow someone who can answer to do so.

 

*****

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

quote:
Xitron wrote:

Jomarac5, while it may seem to be immaturity to you I was only half joking. I am getting tired of all the complaints about the admins and how they do their jobs. The joking part was my stating how to close down this topic, you know me and if I wanted to close it down I could, its really rather easy. My point is simple alot of people, myself included, are tired of the complaining and whining going on. I am not saying you are the one causing this, there are alot of negative threads out there and it just getting boring hearing people Bi**h all the time. I like caching and have involved others in it. The thing is I will not recommand they visit the forum at this time because of all the negative posts going on. I am sure there are others with the same opinion, though I will not mention any names.


Who's complaining about admins here? I'm not -- and I said so in the beginning of the thread.

 

If you want the thread closed so badly, then have it closed. Or you could be mature about it and simply ignore it if you don't wish to offer anything constructive to it.

 

I'm glad to hear that you're tired of the complaining - as am I. But why are you bringing this up here, I'm not complaining about anything -- I'm only trying to get a reasonable discussion going to determine a logical reason as to why a person who starts a thread, has the means of which to shut it down if they don't like the way the discusion is progressing. No complaining there -- only asking a question.

 

Sorry you feel embarrased to tell people about the forums, but that's your choice entirely. Perhaps if you and others kept discussions on topic, the forums wouldn't be so negative.

 

*****

edit: typo

 

[This message was edited by Jomarac5 on October 07, 2003 at 07:04 PM.]


While you may not be directly blaming the admins it is clear to me that you are putting the blame on them. Just because you do not come out and say the admins s**k it is clear that is the message you are trying to make. You're smart enough to know if you came out and said it you'd be locked down, so you skirt the issue. You again bring up the mature issue, not sure why. As for you just "trying to get a resonable discussion going to determine a logical reason as to why a person who starts a thread has the means to shut it down". Its easy because he/she started it. If we were face to face and you didn't like what I said you or I can walk away. If you wanted to persue it you'd take it up with another person/thread. What is so hard to understand?

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quote:
Xitron wrote:

While you may not be directly blaming the admins it is clear to me that you are putting the blame on them.


Clear as mud to you it seems.

 

This discussion is not blaming any admin or any policy of the site. I'm only trying to understand the reasoning of the policy. I didn't say anywhere that I agreed or disagreed with it. And frankly, whatever GCs reasoning for making this a policy doesn't matter to me, i.e., I'm not about to start another thread to have it changed, or as you infer, just to b1tch about it. I'm simply trying to understand the reasoning behind it because it doesn't make sense to me.

 

Read the words -- they are the message, not what you're reading between them.

 

*****

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If you took any offense to what I said I am sorry, I may have misread your meaning and/or your intent. It just seems to me that you have stated your case, had it answered, then repeated your question because you didn't like the answer. I could be wrong, its been known to happen. I still think that the person who started the thread should be able to close it. Think of it this way, if I called you on the phone and we had a disagreement, could I just hang up on you? If you wanted to continue the discussion you could call someone else, but not on my dime...err 30 cents. Or is it 35 cents now?

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

 

Of course there are examples of this, but so that no one thinks that this question is pointed towards them, let's just consider this to be a hypothetical question to some not so hypothitical threads.

*****


 

Go ahead and point, and substantiate yourself. (You were pointing right from the moment you titled the thread...)

 

If however, this is only hypothetical, then both you and I should both simultaneously agree to leave the (general) forums for awhile.

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This is off-topic: When a person starts a thread, and along the way calls a responding poster “immature”, then, in keeping with the forum guidelines, the thread should immediately be closed by the moderator.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. geol4.JPG

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quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

This is off-topic: When a person starts a thread, and along the way calls a responding poster “immature”, then, in keeping with the forum guidelines, the thread should immediately be closed by the moderator.

 


 

But doesn't this contradict what you just said in this threadOption for moderators to stop the bickering, without ending on topic discussionwhere you said "I think its a good idea. The moderators have to get a little bit more proactive - especially regarding personal attacks. Closing the thread to all because of one or two jerks, is not fair."

 

mystats.php?userid=Greenback&vopt=link&txtdata=StatsRule!&bgcol=FFFFFF&fgcol=000000&imbadge=y&badgetyp=chitown.jpg

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I've started a lot of topics over 2 years and never shut one down - never even thought of it. They've died on their own since no one else had anything else to contribute. Sometimes a newbie will pick it up 6 months later in his exuberance like he just found gold - that sort of feels like someone just came out of a time warp or something like "we're you been, mate?"

 

But that's OK too.

 

Even so called "closed end" queastions should not be shut down. How do you really know when a question has been answered? Many times someone comes out with a totally different take on the question that would have been lost if he couldn't post.

 

With due respect to the moderators, (I know you're often in a difficult position), it seems like we're moving toward more closing down of topics prematurely, and that's a shame. A sensitivity of not offending anyone is taking over and that will make the forums boring. A certain amount of conflict stirs the blood.

 

OK. I'm done.

 

Alan

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Heres another logical answer:

 

I think having topics clearly end is a good thing. Why should the moderators be left with the job of cleaning up our tripe?

 

More people ought to responsibly monitor the topics they start, and if they are or become a 'heated' topic, and all sides have had a chance to reply, close it when in dwindles away into off topic issues or repetitive banter.

 

If someone (other than the one who started this thread) can tell me why I should not have had my Captain Urchin thread closed, please say so, and give your reasons. (Privately, if that seems more appropriate.)

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quote:
Originally posted by Greenback:

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

This is off-topic: When a person starts a thread, and along the way calls a responding poster “immature”, then, in keeping with the forum guidelines, the thread should immediately be closed by the moderator.

 


 

But doesn't this contradict what you just said in this threadhttp://ubbx.Groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=5726007311&f=4016058331&m=82060529where you said "I think its a good idea. The moderators have to get a little bit more proactive - especially regarding personal attacks. Closing the thread to all because of one or two jerks, is not fair."

 

[url=http://www.keenpeople.com/stats/


]

 

I don't think so. Not in the case where the offender is the one who started the topic. There have been a number of topics where the topic starter gets personal when responding posters fail to agree or accept their original premise. I think when the topic starter crosses the line, he should lose "ownership" of his thread. (Perhaps I should have specified this exception in the post you referred to.)

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. geol4.JPG

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Sorry Seneca, I'm not going to engage you in a conversation about semantics. If you'd like to start a thead of your own about semantics and name calling, go ahead, maybe I'll join you there.

 

If you'd like to continue discussing the reason that the starter of a thread has the ability to close that thread for any reason whatsoever, I'd be happy to discuss it with you further. So far, no one has been able to offer a sensible reason for this. Perhaps you could?

 

*****

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Just to be clear, in case I wasn't above, my question is this:

 

Why, Jomarac5, did you utilize the means of stopping a discussion that you started when the forum conduct rules were not violated?

 

I only ask with the hopes that reflection upon your own reasons for choosing to do so might enlighten you to ask the reason you are ABLE to do so.

 

Pan

 

Profanity is the crutch of the inarticulate, ***hole. - Unknown

 

Edit: Grammar

 

[This message was edited by Pantalaimon on October 07, 2003 at 09:11 PM.]

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