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One multi - or several in a series with a bonus?


regoarrarr
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Okay. I'm moving the discussion over from this other thread, because as others have said, it's not really about discrimination against handicapped children, at least IMO.

 

But there is a legitimate question I think as to why these caches were not approved. I'll copy a bit of what I wrote in the other thread.

 

Last summer, Team Jedi made a series of caches called Sith Impossible. You can read more about it at

 

http://home.fuse.net/Docman/sithimpossible.html

 

It was quite possibly one of the best cache series done here in Cincinnati. The basic gist of it was that there were 10 different caches around town. Each one could be sought via GPS lat/lon coordinates, or there were also letterboxing-type clues that you could do it with. Each cache had 4 or 5 word stamps in it, along with a logbook. There was a final cache printout, and you stamped each of the word stamps on your printout. When you got all 10 caches and 53 (I think) stamps, that spelled out the location of the final cache.

 

Again, this was and is one of the best cache series in Cincinnati.

 

So the issue if I understand it is that now Team Jedi wants to make Sith Impossible 2. As I understand it from Team Jedi, the approver (Erik) will not approve them, as he says that it is a multi cache and wants it to be one cache (instead of 1 per stage). My understanding of multi-caches is something that is all in the same park, that can usually be done in one day. My Mario's Tower is a good example, as well as many others. This IMHO is different. It's 10 caches that can act as stand-alone, but are also part of an ongoing series. I feel they should be qualified as separate caches.

 

As an example, if I put 10 GladWare containers in the woods in various parts of town, stuck a few things in them and a logbook, they would be approved without another thought I bet. Just because they are part of an inter-connected series is no reason to ban them I think.

 

So, what does the general populace think?

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While I don't agree that a multi should all be in one park I still think the themed with a bonus caches should be approved as seperate caches.

 

Look at the team jiffy solar system series. It's 300 miles across and each one is a nice little cache. But if you happen to be able to find them all, you can find the coordinates to the bonus Haley's Comet. No different.

 

Now previous approvals don't mean that a new similar cache has to be approved, but I think these types of caches add to the sport not take away from it.

 

george

 

39570_500.jpg

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

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My understanding of a multi is that each stage leads you to the next stage, and except in very unusual cases, you have to find them all. That's not how this one works; you can find any of the "first stage" caches in any order, and you can do them all or any number of them. So I vote "series with a bonus", though I don't see why the final cache can't also have its own cache page (I'm assuming that when we say "bonus", we mean it won't have a cache page).

 

Flat_MiGeo_B88.gif

"Winter's just the curtain. Spring will take the bow"

-- Richard Shindell, Spring

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I am staying as far away as possible from the other thread, which is just plain toxic. In this one, I'm happy to offer my thoughts. I voted for "series with a bonus cache at the end." In saying that these caches ought to be approved, however, I note that each of the individual caches must meet the requirements for a cache; i.e., a logbook and so forth. If the individual caches contain nothing but a clue that helps towards a final goal, then that's a lot more like a multicache.

 

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

I was formerly employed by the Department of Redundancy Department, but I don't work there anymore.

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I voted for stand alone, BUT, only if they meet regoarrarr's desciption, AND they conform to the rest of the guidelines. Since the cache in question isn't regoarrarr's I don't think he can say with 100% certainty this is the case here.

 

If they are seperate caches, each with a logbook, each findable and logable as a single cache, and they are all .1 mile from the next closest cache, THEN I don't see any reason not to approve them.

I have a hunch when the facts come out, this isn't gonna be the case though.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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From what I read of the original rant, the stage caches didn't mention having log books, and required you to go to a web site. I personally would vote no for this kind of mechanism. Come up with some other alternative than going back to a web site to get the final cache.

 

If each stage cache has a log book, and they meet all the other requirements of a standard cache there is no reason not to approve them. I am planning on such a cache series myself. TeamJiffy's planet cache series is wildly popular even though you have to drive 300 miles to do all of the series, so that proves that this is something that the geocaching community embraces. I'm sure if the cache hider turned off rant mode and had an intelligent discussion with the approvers, this could easily be resolved.

 

BTW, I voted for standalone based on your description above, but that doesn't mean I'm voting yes on Team Jedi's current series because it isn't apparent to me that what you described matches what they are trying to get approved.

 

--Marky

"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr"

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quote:
Originally posted by Marky:

Come up with some other alternative than going back to a web site to get the final cache.


 

If "no websites" were a rule, then cool caches like Contact could never have happened. As I said in the other thread, I don't really like caches that require me to wipe the mud off my boots and find a computer, but that's no reason not to approve them.

 

(Edit: On yet another rereading of Team Jedi's post, it doesn't look like you have to go to the website after finding the initial series of caches; you can probably print the list and take it with you.)

 

warm.gif

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The last cache is a multi cache due to needing too do the other caches first in order find it.. The rest can stand alone and with a log book etc. there is no reason why they shouldn't.

 

I've done one similar (and yet completely different)

 

In that the multi could be at two locations and the other cache tells you which of the 2 locations to choose from.

 

==============================

Wherever you go there you are.

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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:

The last cache is a multi cache due to needing too do the other caches first in order find it.. The rest can stand alone and with a log book etc. there is no reason why they shouldn't.

 


 

In this case, I would label the last (bonus) cache as an Unknown/Surprise cache type. I think it would actually be more confusing to call it a multi cache.

 

--Marky

"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr"

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quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

quote:
Originally posted by Marky:

Come up with some other alternative than going back to a web site to get the final cache.


(Edit: On yet another rereading of Team Jedi's post, it doesn't look like you have to go to the website after finding the initial series of caches; you can probably print the list and take it with you.)


If that's the case, then that would be fine by me. I just like being self contained when I'm on the hunt and it tends to irritate me if I have to go back to my computer before going back to the final cache, especially if my computer is 300 miles away.

 

--Marky

"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr"

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Actually, I think the cache where you have to go to a website is a different cache. I believe two caches were being described in the original thread. The one in question here has its own site, but you go there before hunting.

 

I think having to go to a website in the middle of a hunt, though, is another justification for them being separate, rahter than breaking up a single hunt with a trip back home.

 

Flat_MiGeo_B88.gif

"Winter's just the curtain. Spring will take the bow"

-- Richard Shindell, Spring

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Geez, if I didn't know better, I'd say someone hacked into Team Jedis account and was trying to cause a big ruckus... seems to be working.

 

As for the cache,I'm sure most cachers would enjoy it just as much whether it was a multi or individual caches.

 

Mebbe, with the ever-increasing number of caches placed, Erik just wanted to simplify things, and have 1 cache to approve instead of 10-11. I don't blame him if that's the main motivation for requesting it be palced as a multi.

 

Team Jedi- after looking up your profile, you're a very prolific physical cache placer. You even had 1 approved just a week ago, and several mid-March. If Erik was the approver of all those, I think you're still ahead of most of us on gettign physical caches out and approved (by whomever).

 

I originally voted to have them listed as seperate caches- can I retract that and vote instead to remove Team Jedi from geocaching.com becuase of extreme unsportsmanlike behaviour unless they chill out and stop their wild accusations soon?

 

I walk the Maze of Moments, but everywhere I turn to, begins a new beginning, but never finds a finish... -Enya, Anywhere Is

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quote:
Originally posted by Squirrel Nut:

Team Jedi- after looking up your profile, you're a very prolific physical cache placer. You even had 1 approved just a week ago, and several mid-March. If Erik was the approver of all those, I think you're still ahead of most of us on gettign physical caches out and approved (by whomever).

 

I originally voted to have them listed as seperate caches- can I retract that and vote instead to remove Team Jedi from geocaching.com becuase of extreme unsportsmanlike behaviour unless they chill out and stop their wild accusations soon?


I'm with the Squirrel on this one at this point.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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Yes, there are 2 separate cache series being described. The first was called Movie Madness. I'm not entirely sure how that one worked. The one in question right now was called Sith Impossible 2. You can read about the original Sith Impossible series at:

 

http://home.fuse.net/Docman/sithimpossible.html

 

As someone pointed out, in the overall scheme of things it doesn't really matter whether they are 1 or 11 caches. People will probably still hunt them anyways. But if they're separate, I'd say more people would hunt them. Main reason being if I'm going to Park A, I might check the nearest caches list. If they're all one cache sheet with some other coordinates, I might not realize that these caches are here.

 

They have (at least the Sith Impossible 1 series had) logbooks, and while I don't remember if they had things to trade, they were certainly big enough to have items to trade (they were medium sized GladWare). So, if that's an issue, which I don't think it is, they could.

 

It's unfortunate that the other thread got very emotional with attacks being wielded both ways. It's obvious that Team Jedi is very emotional about the subject and frustrated about his caches not being approved, and not getting any response from geocaching.com over a period of several months. Could he have handled this better? Probably.

 

But that doesn't change the fact that he has a legitimate beef. While I agree with Jeremy on the complaint that geocaching.com discriminating against the handicapped is not valid, I still think that we should be able to work this out.

 

As a local cacher, I just want to find the caches. I hope we can get this resolved however it needs to be soon.

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quote:
Originally posted by regoarrarr:

It's unfortunate that the other thread got very emotional with attacks being wielded both ways. It's obvious that Team Jedi is very emotional about the subject and frustrated about his caches not being approved, and not getting any response from geocaching.com over a period of several months. Could he have handled this better? Probably.


From what I'm getting, the 3 month wait wasn't for a response to questions about this last cache, it was about getting his own personal cache approver because he felt the one that approves his region is out to get him. TPTB asked for proof, which was never supplied. The fact that he has 45 caches that HAVE been approved, 11 of them in those last 3 months (I assume by the same approver who is out to get him?) tells me he is probably not being singled out. As a matter of fact, I think his most recently approved one clearly violates the rules on a "commercial cache", since by the cache description it seems to be promoting a local pizzia place. Yet that was approved. Along with 44 others. And he is being treated unfairly how?

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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quote:
From what I'm getting, the 3 month wait wasn't for a response to questions about this last cache, it was about getting his own personal cache approver because he felt the one that approves his region is out to get him.

 

Well I don't know. You could be right - I don't have all the details anyway. But in any regard, it doesn't matter I think. I mean that's not the issue at least in my mind. Yes, it was inappropriate to say geocaching.com discriminates. Yes, he probably could have handled this differently. But it doesn't change the fact that in the end, it's just hurting the rest of us Cincinnati cachers, who just want to cache.

 

I think that if you polled some of us, you'd find that we think Team Jedi has done some of the coolest caches in the area. I know I think that.

 

I personally don't care if it's 1 or 11. I'll do it either way. I do think that more people would find stages of it if it was 11, but whatever. I think it should be posted as 11 because that's the way similar caches have been approved. But if, in the end, it's only posted as 1, whatever, I don't care. I just want to cache.

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I posted this in another thread (don't you hate it when threads get closed)

 

I recall another not-approved cache that was one cache being used as the starting point for several other caches. Those should all have been legs of the same multi instead.

This Sith2 cache is not really a cache at all. You have to solve 10 individual (pre-existing caches) to get the coordinates for this 'bonus' cache. Somewhere in the guidelines it says you may find coordinates to an unpublished cache. That describes Sith2 pretty well.

 

bandbass.gif

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First, let me say that I haven't read the other thread that this discussion originated from. Since this thread is to deicide whether or not the cache be approved, I see no need in getting into whether someone does or doesn't like handicapped children.

 

We have done the Sith 1 series of caches here in Cincinnati and they were alot of fun to do. They took us to different parks in different cities and states. All were within 30 miles of each other. As for the containers, I do remember that they were big enough for items to be left in. I even remember that a few of them had coins and a peice or two of chidrens jewelry. I am sure that if cache items is a stumbling point, it can be resolved extremely easily.

 

If the Sith 3: series is to be done in the same venue as the Sith 2. I would welcome it and wouldn't see any reason not to approve it as seperate caches.

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It should be one cache. This should not be about the numbers (1 vs. 11). Make it a single multi-cache. If this is the problem the (dis)approver has, then fix it and move on.

 

I read the other thread. Seems to me that people who try to "push the envelope" and are shot down need to complain about something (discrimination). I'm glad the issue presented in this thread is relevant to geocaching.Ï

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Squirrel Nut said:

quote:
I originally voted to have them listed as seperate caches- can I retract that and vote instead to remove Team Jedi from geocaching.com becuase of extreme unsportsmanlike behaviour unless they chill out and stop their wild accusations soon?

 

With a GREAT deal of reluctance I feel I have to agree with this statement.

 

No matter how many clever caches someone has placed, no one has the right to put individuals through the type of abuse I read in the original thread.

 

I believe this thread is an attempt by all of us to take a deep breath and try to resolve the original issues which only 1 or two of us even know the details about.

 

I think the original issues are now moot and the real issue of whether we have to put up with this 'unsportsmanlike behaviour' or not is what needs to be decided.

 

It is not unthinkable that this entire activity could come to a screeching halt because of this behavior.

 

 

"The hardest thing to find is something that's not there!"

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quote:
Originally posted by georgeandmary:

quote:
Originally posted by regoarrarr:

(they were medium sized GladWare).


 

I vote it gets approved in they replace the gladware with a better container.

 

george


I agree with George icon_biggrin.gif

 

But really, If each of the 'clue' caches meet the merits by itself, then allow this series?? to be 10 and a bonus.

 

waypoint_link.gif22008_1700.gif37_gp_logo88x31.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by regoarrarr:

So the issue if I understand it is that now Team Jedi wants to make Sith Impossible 2. As I understand it from Team Jedi, the approver (Erik) will not approve them, as he says that it is a multi cache and wants it to be one cache (instead of 1 per stage). My understanding of multi-caches is something that is all in the same park, that can usually be done in one day. My http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=32824 is a good example, as well as many others. This IMHO is different. It's 10 caches that can act as stand-alone, but are also part of an ongoing series. I feel they should be qualified as separate caches.

 

As an example, if I put 10 GladWare containers in the woods in various parts of town, stuck a few things in them and a logbook, they would be approved without another thought I bet. Just because they are part of an inter-connected series is no reason to ban them I think.

 

So, what does the general populace think?


 

I think that if you are going to hide 10 stand alone caches in one park, it had better be one big park. Really big. Super honkin' big.

 

Because if you are spacing the caches .1 mile apart, and packing them as tightly as you can, that works out to about 5 acres for each cache. And I would think that you'd be spacing them farther apart than 528 feet as a general rule. If you space them 1000 feet apart, you're talking about roughly 17.6 acres per cache.

 

How big is the park? Anyone know?

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Commenting only on the merits of multiple caches in a series verus one multicache, and from what read about SithI, I voted for a series.

 

My simple opinion is a multi is something someone could complete in short order, is linear, and save for the last one, no stage can stand on its own as a cache. This is a generalizaton and is only a loose definition.

 

When you create multiple caches where the series can be completed in any order--except for the optional bonus--and if each one is difficult in it's own right, AND each otherwise fits the description of a cache, then each should be considered as a seperate cache. A passer-through will be able to hunt, find, and get credit for a few of the caches if they don't have time to find them all.

 

I know I'm tipping my hand and Erik is one of my approvers, but I'm planning a simplier series for the Charleston, SC area called The Zodiac Factor. A series of 12 micros hidden in the Charleston Metro area with a full sized bonus if you're able to find at least 11 of the 12.

 

Sorry, Erik, but if Sith II is like Sith I then my feeling is it should be a series unless there is something else which I don't know about.

 

One other thought, should 10 individual caches be considered a single multi simply due to the fact they are in the same theme?

 

CR

 

72057_2000.gif

 

[EDIT: jumbled thoughts]

 

[This message was edited by Sissy-n-CR on April 08, 2003 at 02:48 PM.]

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quote:
I think that if you are going to hide 10 stand alone caches in one park, it had better be one big park. Really big. Super honkin' big.

 

Also, I don't know where the individual stage caches are for Sith 2, but the ones for Sith 1 were not in the same park.

 

http://home.fuse.net/Docman/sithimpossible.html

 

There were 2 in Mt. Airy Forest (5 miles NW of downtown Cincinnati)

3 in Big Bone Lick State Park (25 miles S)

1 in Devou Park (2 miles S)

1 in Pierce Park (20 miles E)

1 in Woodland Mound (10 miles E)

1 in Hillcrest Cemetery (10 miles E)

1 in Kellogg Woods (10 miles SE)

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10 caches in an 8000 acre park isn't too crowded. I'm working right now with the park ranger to plan a series of 6 to 8 caches in a 7000 acre park; you need at least that many caches to show off all the various features and topography. But of those 6 to 8 caches, only 4 will be mine, because I don't wanna be a park hog.

 

This raises the question: what does the park manager think about having 10 or 11 Movie Madness caches in their park? And do other area cachers mind that a nice big state park is now kind of "taken" by this series of caches? (Or, if there are caches currently in the park, is it saturated?)

 

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

I was formerly employed by the Department of Redundancy Department, but I don't work there anymore.

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I wanted to vote and to form my own opinion of this poll without any extra baggage, but now that I've read that other post I must say there are at least two people who were completely out of line.

 

Erik, don't take my vote for creating a series as an endorsement of Team Jedi's comments in any way. The personal attacks in that other thread were completely uncalled for. I know that you are a fair approver. Don't let this get you down. You have my support.

 

CR

 

72057_2000.gif

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I vote for the series. Hard for me to do otherwise, given the fact (as others pointed out) that my wife and I placed a series across the Bay Area, TriValley (Livermore) and Central Valley regions of California. Find all 9 planets, you get to find Halley's Comet, somewhere in Redwood Regional Park.

 

Fy (my wife) and I debated multi vs. series. How we came to this decision may be useful to consider.

 

The multi-cache idea lost out for many reasons:

We wanted to let the individual items be findable without total dependence on the others. Let's say that Saturn is lost - and I can't replace it for 2 weeks because I am travelling out of town. I can disable the one cache, vs. the entire set of 10. This lets people continue finding (at least) the other 8 planets in the meantime. Sorry, putting a special note in the multi-cache page saying Saturn is gone is kludgey - the Geocaching web site allows nice control/notification of caches at the per-cache level, supplying much of what we needed here.

Reporting the status of stages would have been extremely ugly without separate cache pages. Just imagine the log as people find 1 at a time, or try to report 1 stage is missing - ugh.

Bluntly, I don't think many people would have bothered with this cache if it were just ONE cache. Because it just seems an AWFUL lot of work for 1 cache log and

What location (lat/long) gets put on the multicache page? Downtown San Jose, where the "Sun" exists? Well, the central valley and Livermore folks won't even see it. Ditto for other locations. We wanted people in one location to find one near their home (say, Saturn) and learn about the series almost as a surprise.

 

The only downside is maintaining 10 pages vs. 1. But that's what cut and paste is for. Anybody looking at even two of these cache pages would know that they follow a very specific template.

 

There was also one other great benefit: Other people joining in. We hadn't thought of that, but are very cool with it. They create a cache page with a very similar title, and that URL listed above will pull out their cache pages too.

 

In other words, a series wins hands-down, no contest.

 

-Jif

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This is all just guessing

 

I've reread that 1st post in the other thread 100 times now, and the only FACT I can come up with about the actual cache in question is:

quote:

Like the first Sith Impossible this is a Muticache, Eric said I had to place it as 1 cache or he would not approve it.


After that everything else after that seems to be about other caches that he says the same approver wouldn't approve.

So, what do we know about Jedi's cache?

We do know that the cache owner himself calls it a multicache, not a series, which to me means one cache page.

We do know he compares it to another series of caches. Confusing.

We know the approver isn't here to give his side of the story.

 

We don't know where the caches are.

We don't what park they are in.

We don't know how close to other caches they are.

We don't know if they contain logsbooks.

In other words, aside from what regoarrarr (and I know he's just trying to be helpful) and other people are GUESSING the cache might be like, we don't really know enough about this cache to make an informed decision.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:

 

In other words, aside from what regoarrarr (and I know he's just trying to be helpful) and other people are GUESSING the cache might be like, we don't really know enough about this cache to make an informed decision.

 


 

Which is why it is better to believe someone who knows more about it.

If regoarrarr says its Good, thats good enough for me. He wasnt the only local speaking up for the cache, even in the other thread.

Local knowledge should suppliment the approval appeal process, after an seeming out of hand rejection.

Most of the other resistance seemed to come less from the cache problem than the rant.

 

icon_geocachingwa.gif

 

Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

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quote:
Erik, don't take my vote for creating a series as an endorsement of Team Jedi's comments in any way.

The personal attacks in that other thread were completely uncalled for. I know that you are a fair

approver. Don't let this get you down. You have my support.


 

Thanks for the kind words. I'm off on a business trip with very slow internet access, so won't waste many words on this. I will only say that the seven preliminary caches had almost nothing in the way of verbage to describe them. Ditto for the bonus cache. There was no mention of letter boxing or anything to elaborate on this. I refered the cache submitter to the guidelines, which ask that something of this sort be combined as a multicache. I got a disjointed rant in response. As someone who was a physically handicapped child I overlooked the accusations about such discrimination. Luckily I wasn't too handicapped as a child to be able to geocache as an adult. icon_smile.gif

 

~erik

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Some time ago, in #geocache, I put forth the idea that I called "polycache" -- a series of separate caches linked by a theme leading to an ultimate final cache.

 

IIRC, the idea was well received by the people there, although I have not gotten around to building a polycache.

 

I will note that it's not an unusual idea. There are several other polycaches in existance, and they've been around nearly as long as the sport -- all I did was try to contribute a name for them.

 

I think polycaches are a great idea and a great logical extention.

 

<disclaimer>

I'm making general comments. I don't know anything about the issues around the question that strated this.

</disclaimer>

 

That said, if there is no reason to reject any of the caches on their individual merit, then the entire themed-cache set should be accepted as a series of caches.

 

Marty Fouts

ae6ip

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quote:
Originally posted by ~erik~:

I refered the cache submitter to the guidelines, which ask that something of this sort be combined as a multicache.

~erik


 

<disclaimer>

I disassociate myself from the uncalled-for personal attack on Erik.

</disclaimer>

 

That said, and with all due respect, I don't believe that the guidelines call for poly-caches to be combined as multi-caches. Nor do I see any reason why they should, provided:

 

* each cache in the poly-cache (except the final) can be done as a standalone cache and *as such* meets the guidelines

 

* the final cache is clearly labeled as a puzzle cache and explains that you need to solve all of the other caches in the poly-cache before approaching it.

 

There are plenty of poly-caches in existance that satisfy that requirement. I believe that some of them were even approved by Erik, although he might not have known that they were poly-caches.

 

I will say that some of the best caches I've solved have been poly-caches and that two of the difficult caches still on my DNF list are both the last stages of poly-caches.

 

It would be a sad blow to the hobby if poly-caches were suddenly to become unacceptable.

 

Marty Fouts

ae6ip

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quote:
It would be a sad blow to the hobby if poly-caches were suddenly to become unacceptable.


 

I would agree, if each seperate cache is significant enough to stand on its own.

 

There are multicaches that are like stepping stones, with each step leading to the next. Those should be multicaches, IMHO, not posted as seperate caches with a "bonus cache". Then there are those that are great cache hunts in their own right. I guess that's what you're calling a poly-cache.

 

quote:
I disassociate myself from the uncalled-for personal attack on Erik

 

me too. icon_smile.gif

 

~erik~

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Looks like there are two ways to get this approved:

 

Make a multicache with the final (11th) location accessible by finding each of the 10 locations.

 

Make each of the 10 caches a separate cache with a clue to the 11th locaction that will not be a cache in itself.

 

The second option comes from the FAQ where it says:

quote:
What is usually in a cache?

 

A cache can come in many forms but the first item should always be the logbook. In its simplest form a cache can be just a logbook and nothing else. The logbook contains information from the founder of the cache and notes from the cache's visitors. The logbook can contain much valuable, rewarding, and entertaining information. A logbook might contain information about nearby attractions, coordinates to other unpublished caches, and even jokes written by visitors. If you get some information from a logbook you should give some back. At the very least you can leave the date and time you visited the cache.


In case you missed it, it says: A logbook might contain information about...coordinates to other unpublished caches

 

Looks like option 2 will work just fine as long as each of the 10 caches is a real cache in itself.

 

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Ish-n-ishna said:

quote:
Which is why it is better to believe someone who knows more about it.

If regoarrarr says its Good, thats good enough for me. He wasnt the only local speaking up for the cache, even in the other thread.


 

Unfortunately, regoarrarr said:

quote:
Also, I don't know where the individual stage caches are for Sith 2, but the ones for Sith 1 were not in the same park.

 

In plain words, no one knows what erik really had to make his decision and now that erik has said:

quote:
I will only say that the seven preliminary caches had almost nothing in the way of verbage to describe them. Ditto for the bonus cache. There was no mention of letter boxing or anything to elaborate on this. I refered the cache submitter to the guidelines, which ask that something of this sort be combined as a multicache. I got a disjointed rant in response.

 

Perhaps we should stop talking about what erik should do and just let him do his work in his normal concientous way.

 

 

"The hardest thing to find is something that's not there!"

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POLYCACHE I like that. Stand alone caches that are part of a larger theme or grouping, possibly with clues to an additional cache(s).

 

I had thought "theme" should describe, but a "theme" cache could be a single traditional. I like "polycache" much better.

 

With that said, I don't think there wuld need be a new category of cache called polycache as most could fit into the traditional quite well.

 

So, would saying "a polycache series" be redundant?

 

CR

 

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quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:

 

In other words, aside from what regoarrarr (and I know he's just trying to be helpful) and other people are GUESSING the cache might be like, we don't really know enough about this cache to make an informed decision.

 


quote:
Originally posted by Ish-n-Isha:

Which is why it is better to believe someone who knows more about it.

If regoarrarr says its Good, thats good enough for me. He wasnt the only local speaking up for the cache, even in the other thread.

Local knowledge should suppliment the approval appeal process, after an seeming out of hand rejection.

Most of the other resistance seemed to come less from the cache problem than the rant.


There, I put it in bold so you can see it this time. There is no local knowledge about this cache. While I respect regoarrarr's opinion, and I'm sure Team Jedi's other cache is as great as he says, what's that got to do with the cache in discussion? What it sounds like you are saying, that once the locals decide that a guy has hidden a great cache, every cache thereafter can bypass the approval process?

The locals don't know any more about this cache then anyone else. The only ones that do are the cache approvers and the cache hider. The fact that his other cache was good does not somehow automagically make his new one conform to the rules.

Yea, the personal attacks in the other thread left a really sour taste in my mouth. If I was local, I would be boycotting his caches from now on. But I'm trying to be objective here. It sounds like Jedi had a decent idea, and could probably have made it work if he had just gone about things the right way.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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1st

 

It's the same as SIth 1 but with dates to the final cache instead of word stamps (Good News, I have alot heaver containers then Gladeware, Geesh, That stuff does not hold up well at all)

 

2nd

 

It's A Muticache because the first one was changed to a muticache by erik (He thought it was better that way (Sith 1) and I had no problem with him listing it that way) Whatever works.

 

3rd

 

Mopar, Don't take this the wrong way, BUT, The people in the area should be a facter, (I know the rules say no) but Lets say your from Georga Mopar, What do I know about your area, I live in Cincinnati! In my corner of the World we are dealing with Permits to hide caches and Letterboxes and have to check up on them as part of the permit. Our County has just made a new rule, If a Letterbox/geocache is drug out and left, It is now litter in the park and they can fine the placer of the letterbox/geocache for litter. (Which is way Sith 2 was changed a bite.)

 

 

4th

 

I am truly sorry that the boat has been missed on all of this, I'm sorry that My Child can only do so much, If all he can do is place a simple cache and it makes his face lite up to do it, then Why would anyone EVEN think of rules, Yes I know, there are rules to everything in life, There are also rules for not having rules. I am sorry if no one see's that. Maybe my hearts a little bigger, I don;t know about you guys, but if someone told me that my cache was not approved and I seen one like mine that was approved and I asked about it and whoever (Approver) told me that, Hey that placers kid is Handicapped and that is the best that his son can do, I can live with that, as a bending of a rule and My guess is so could you guy's.

 

Maybe the heading for that Other tread was not the best one, I also asked that the tread be closed to that other Topic. As by some of your posting, Maybe it was a little wrong. If you would like to rip at me more, Feel Free to:

 

TeamJedi@hotmail.com

 

I hope that the powers that be will for once get with me and solve the problem, Till then, I hope we can get Back to the Cache problem.

 

I don't know if other cache placers are having the same problems as myself BUT parks are not letting you place cache in them if they already have a few. It's not just the Geocaches, It's the Letterboxes also. Letterboxing has been around alot longer than Geocaching, So the norm now in parks is to get Permits. and Now on top of that we are talking about more and more Rules on the Websites just to place the caches or letterboxes.

 

When does this get to the point where there are more rules than fun?

 

If you look at other Caches I have, I have one that has 6 markers (Kind of like Rainbow connection) without the cool website to track them on. You find a disk with a number on it, Find all 6 and get the final cache, (Not Listed as 6 caches but only one)

 

I am open to change on this cache, I read all ofthe posting and I think everyone for there opion.

 

Doc

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Jedi:

3rd

 

Mopar, Don't take this the wrong way, BUT, The people in the area should be a facter, (I know the rules say no) but Lets say your from Georga Mopar, What do I know about your area, I live in Cincinnati! In my corner of the World we are dealing with Permits to hide caches and Letterboxes and have to check up on them as part of the permit. Our County has just made a new rule, If a Letterbox/geocache is drug out and left, It is now litter in the park and they can fine the placer of the letterbox/geocache for litter. (Which is way Sith 2 was changed a bite.)


Doc, I understand, and I agree with what you wrote above. But that wasn't exactly what I meant.

What I was trying to say is, that just because the locals chimed in that your other caches (like Sith 1) are good and you are a great guy, does not mean that every cache you do after Sith 1 should automatically be posted. Just because Sith 1 met the guidelines in effect when it was approved doesn't mean that Slith 2 doesn't need to meet the current guidelines.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Jedi:

 

I am truly sorry that the boat has been missed on all of this, I'm sorry that My Child can only do so much, If all he can do is place a simple cache and it makes his face lite up to do it, then Why would anyone EVEN think of rules, Yes I know, there are rules to everything in life, There are also rules for not having rules. I am sorry if no one see's that. Maybe my hearts a little bigger, I don;t know about you guys, but if someone told me that my cache was not approved and I seen one like mine that was approved and I asked about it and whoever (Approver) told me that, Hey that placers kid is Handicapped and that is the best that his son can do, I can live with that, as a bending of a rule and My guess is so could you guy's.


 

Why not work with your son so that the cache the two of you are creating meets the rules? That seems to be the obvious solution to this problem.

 

Ron/yumitori

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quote:

I am truly sorry that the boat has been missed on all of this, I'm sorry that My Child can only do so much, If all he can do is place a simple cache and it makes his face lite up to do it, then Why would anyone EVEN think of rules, Yes I know, there are rules to everything in life, There are also rules for not having rules. I am sorry if no one see's that. Maybe my hearts a little bigger, I don;t know about you guys, but if someone told me that my cache was not approved and I seen one like mine that was approved and I asked about it and whoever (Approver) told me that, Hey that placers kid is Handicapped and that is the best that his son can do, I can live with that, as a bending of a rule and My guess is so could you guy's.


 

How dare you question the heart of people here, simply because an approver had a problem with your cache and many of us resented your vicious attacks on him and this website. You are obviously a very sick person. Get help (and maybe repeating grades 3-12 would be a good idea too).

 

"You can only protect your liberties in this world, by protecting the other man's freedom. "You can only be free if I am" -Clarence Darrow

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If your kid is so 'handicapped' then why not hide single 1/1 caches? From how complex your caches seem to be, they look like your work not his. What I mean by that is: just because your child is handicapped, it doesn't mean he doesn't have to follow the rules.

 

BTW, I am not trying to imply anything about the handicapped status of your child. I make the extra effort to post trail information on my caches to let mobility-impaired people know if it would be too hard for them.

 

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quote:
What I mean by that is: just because your child is handicapped, it doesn't mean he doesn't have to follow the rules.


 

How can you be so cruel and heartless?

 

"You can only protect your liberties in this world, by protecting the other man's freedom. "You can only be free if I am" -Clarence Darrow

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