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Hall of Shame


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quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:

Another thing you have to realize is the fact that GC.com is only a listing service.


 

CR,

 

I agree with the general tone of your response, but the above is not accurate of GC.com. This listing service influences the game with its instructions. I stipulate that Groundspeak can do whatever it pleases on its site, but calling GC.com only a listing service does a disservice to the strength this site has over the game.

 

Fro.

 

________________________________________

Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

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quote:
Originally posted by pnew:

ok here's my two cents... I've seen better arguments than this in a class of preschoolers. Its sad to think this board is used almost exclusively by adults... sometimes you would never know.

 

http://www.texasgeocaching.com

 

I thought this has been a rather good, civil discussion, Pnew. People have had differing opinions but they have been quite cordial to each other. Do your comments mean that you believe the topic of the debate is a lousy one, or just that the arguments put forth by the participants are lame? If its the latter, I would really like to here what you think of active participants who don't buy memberships. I think its a fairly important topic.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. geol4.JPG

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Oh, shucks, you made me feel all guilty over here. I do however, think that my situation is very different than all of yours.

 

I don't have any limbs.

 

Just kidding. I'm actually a twelve-year-old kid. (Don't believe me? well, its true.) I suppose it wouldn't hurt to pay $2.50 a month...I mean, geocaching is FUN but..uh...uh...I don't really know, except that I would not have as much fun in my life without geocaching. Its really great. It saves me from the Saturday morning boredom of cartoons. It helps the community.

 

But I honestly don't think its that big of a deal. We've bought stuff from this website, is that much different. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to be a charter member. Now more than ever I hope to become one.

-wray_kid

 

I don't really understand what I just said either.

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quote:
Originally posted by pnew:

ok here's my two cents... I've seen better arguments than this in a class of preschoolers. Its sad to think this board is used almost exclusively by adults... sometimes you would never know.

 

http://www.texasgeocaching.com

 

WELL NOW YOU DO!!!!!! I am sorry if I have disrupted the dignity of this board. Really. I feel like I've done evil now....

-wray_kid..AND PROUD OF IT!!!!

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quote:
Originally posted by Frolickin:

I agree with the general tone of your response, but the above is not accurate of GC.com. This listing service influences the game with its _instructions_. I stipulate that Groundspeak can do whatever it pleases on its site, but calling GC.com _only a listing service_ does a disservice to the strength this site has over the game.


 

You most definitely have a point on that aspect. With the sheer magnitude of share of the caches out there, GC.com can practically steer geocaching in any direction it chooses. ...up to a point.

 

My main point was the fact that GC.com is only a portal through which people can view other people's caches. The ease of which this happens and the fact that only GC.com is ever listed in news articles (that I've seen) makes it pretty much the only game in town. This gives GC.com a distinct advantage in that it controls what it will list on it's site, and thus what most people will see. It de facto controls the game.

 

However, if a new site comes along that's faster, even easier to use, has gobs more features--even killer features like highly configurable stats, ability to see a grid of people who have found your caches and which other ones of yours they haven't found, free instant PQs, custom skins, cache pages completely customizable, whatever--has fewer restrictions, more and better cache types, 24 hour guaranteed cache approval or rejection, advanced notice of new caches, on and on and on. Then, for whatever reason, Jeremy is unable to continue to maintain this site, GC.com's share of the caches will start to flow to this other, mythical site. GC.com will lose that strength you've mentioned.

 

Do I think there will ever be a sight like this mythical one I mentioned? Someone will almost certainly try. But until TPTB clamp down on the people that come here and try to flew that muscle in a way they don't like, nothing can challenge them.

 

CR

 

72057_2000.gif

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WOW if such a site exists send me the link. I can just see someone out there saying to themselves, You know what I should do make a website "that has gobs more features--even killer features like highly configurable stats, ability to see a grid of people who have found your caches and which other ones of yours they haven't found, free instant PQs, custom skins, cache pages completely customizable, whatever--has fewer restrictions, more and better cache types, 24 hour guaranteed cache approval or rejection, advanced notice of new caches, on and on and on" and give it away for free!! YEA thats the ticket!

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quote:
Originally posted by Quest Master:

Somebody is probably going to say that this has already been discussed but here goes...

 

There has been a lot of complaining lately including some statements to the effect that some people are not going pay for their membership if certain improvements are not made to the site such as a separate area for virts, maps, statistics, etc.

 

I pay my dues not for improvements but to keep this site going at least as well as it has been running. I feel like I owe it to them. I don't mind paying the freight for newbies and casual users and I certainly wouldn't want for this to become a pay site but there is a certain category of geocacher that I resent. There are some out there who are very active in this game and have hundreds of finds and don't ante up the pittance that is required to become a charter member and support this site. It cannot be justified if one considers all of the time, energy, and money that one would normally have to spend to ring up triple digits of smiley faces. These persons belong in the geocaching hall of shame.

 

Johnny


 

Who is this? Jeremy's sock puppet? Times are hard, huh? Gotta get out and beat the bushes every now and them for some quick cash? icon_wink.gif

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BTW: you're right, Leatherman, I will never get away from that one...LOL...

 

I DO feel a bit bad that I haven't sent in my $30...it's really not that much to help support the cause. It's just that I am having some tough times right now, once I get through this I promise, THE CHECK'S IN THE MAIL....

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quote:
Somebody is probably going to say that this has already been discussed but here goes...

There has been a lot of complaining lately including some statements to the effect that some people are not going pay for their membership if certain improvements are not made to the site such as a separate area for virts, maps, statistics, etc.

I pay my dues not for improvements but to keep this site going at least as well as it has been running. I feel like I owe it to them. I don't mind paying the freight for newbies and casual users and I certainly wouldn't want for this to become a pay site but there is a certain category of geocacher that I resent. There are some out there who are very active in this game and have hundreds of finds and don't ante up the pittance that is required to become a charter member and support this site. It cannot be justified if one considers all of the time, energy, and money that one would normally have to spend to ring up triple digits of smiley faces. These persons belong in the geocaching hall of shame.


 

OK, first off, my computer connection is blanking out much of threads for me tonight, so I haven't read the responses to this. Sorry if I get redundant (which apparently I have been in the past icon_smile.gif)

 

Well, I became a paying member quickly after finding this hobby. I like to pay for what I get and highly respect others who do the same. With that said, I am loathe to place in a "hall of shame" anyone with many stats that don't pay. Those people might not be paying for personal reasons! Further, they contribute to the sport by finding and hiding. This is a "free" site, with people who are willing to contribute supporting it. I want to see it always be a free site and will pay my $3/month, but will never complain about those who don't. Part of my $3/month is based on the idea that as long as this site exists for free, it will cause new caches and members. So, I see where you are coming from, but I disagree with the "hall of shame" thing.

 

Edit: Apparently my connection will let me read page two, which only messes with my curiousity since apparently there is an argument going on. Will go see if the first page can load.....

 

Edit2: OK when I sat enough, it loaded. I guess there wasn't any huge argument going on. Page one seemed rather tame. And yes, I was redundant!

 

pokeanim3.gif

 

[This message was edited by carleenp on August 31, 2003 at 06:54 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by JoGPS:

Hall of Shame , I love that name and yes it does label people and it should.

 

How much did your gps cost.


It was an xmas gift 4 years ago. but $450 cad

quote:

How much does you internet connection cost a year


$600

 

quote:

How much fun do you have finding caches

How much fun do you have posting on these forums


Lot's

quote:

How much do you complain about having to pay when you can have it for free.


Never

quote:

Yep your are a slacker if you are not a member.


nope not an @ss either.

 

quote:

A lot of the people complaining about this site are non-members and posting to the forums, and by there post are trying to change this great site into what they would like it to be for them, a non paying member.


 

Nope the're tying to chang it into something that they consider paying $$$ for. If I could meet up with the great Oz I would give him the 45 that it costs me, but he wouldn't be able to do much with my funny coloured $$. I don't use pay pal and I don't have visa mast. The site is surving quite well and doesn't need suden intuction of sympathy cash. So I'll leave it until the paying members get something I can't live without, <Jerremy think corridor surches> At that time I'll bribe a frind with a visa or drive down to Oz and pay my 45. He can figure out what to do with the colored paper later.

 

quote:

My two cents would be for ONLY paying members to be able to post in the forums, they can read them but no post.


 

My 2 would be for people to have to think before hitting send but hey we also let you drive.

 

Pat Patterson

Garmin 12XL

82CJ7 & 79F250

Herd of Turtles 4x4 club

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WOW! Read all the comments. It seems the same cachers would also like a leaderboard (say Bragging board). Some of us don't have many CACHES in our area. My county only has 6, I'v gon to neighboring countys and found 6 more, but I'm running out of gas money.

It makes no sense to ane up $30.00 a year when my max. caches will level off about 30 or so. icon_frown.gif

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I am not Jeremy's sock puppet but I am the lienholder for his Hummer and I do want to be sure that I will be paid. icon_wink.gif

 

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

Active, non-paying members make a great contribution to Geocaching. This game cannot work without lots of people willing to play. The simple acts of hiding and/or finding caches are an important (and in fact essential) contribution to Geoacaching. I myself would not be interested in hiding a cache, unless I felt there was a good chance that there are going to be members out there willing to find it. I would have no caches to find, unless there are members willing to hide them. This, I suspect, is why membership is _free_. Groundspeak could of course, suddenly decide that only paid up subscribers were entitled to access this site. The obvious impact would be that the game would rapidly go down the tube, because we would lose most of the members who contribute only by playing. Following the loss of these members, would be the loss of most paying subscribers, because they would not want to pay a premium membership fee, for a site that became useless because of a severely diminished membership.

 

I think that Groundspeak should focus on subscriber benefits if they want to increase the number of paid up subscribers. As I said earlier, pocket queries are worth $30.00 a year to me. However, many others would probably prefer to spend their money on something else.


 

It is certainly true that this game cannot work without lots of people willing to play but it is also true that this game cannot work without the website. Hiding and/or finding geocaches contributes content but it does nothing to relieve the burden on the website. I don't know a whole lot about internet and computers but I have to think that every cache hidden and every find logged is bandwidth and storage space on the servers and a lot of other stuff that I wouldn't begin to comprehend. This stuff costs money. You have said that you pay for premium feature and there is nothing wrong with that but many others are saying here that they contribute because they want to keep this site free and working at least as well as it does. You rightly pointed out that this website would probably die if everyone had to pay. I may be wrong but I do believe that the monetary contributions from members is essential to the running of this site. I purposely signalled out very active users that have large numbers of finds because they are using a greater share of the site's resources and should be the first to pay. I am not proposing that geocaching.com should make a hard and fast rule about this or that there should actually be a hall of shame but I do think that there are some users who could afford to pay and don't in spite of the fact that they are getting a lot out of it.

 

Some have rightly pointed out that this is a very negative post. I agree. Somebody should have pointed out that there are a lot of casual users and even newbies who pay for a membership. These people are doing more to contibute to the website than I am in a relative sense. I will remember to think about that the next time I shoot off my big mouth.

 

Johnny

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quote:
Originally posted by Quest Master:

Some have rightly pointed out that this is a very negative post. I agree. Somebody should have pointed out that there are a lot of casual users and even newbies who pay for a membership. These people are doing more to contibute to the website than I am in a relative sense. I will remember to think about that the next time I shoot off my big mouth.

Johnny


 

I really don't think you were "shooting off your big mouth." I think it just a difference in perception. If you percieve this site to be like "PBS" public TV, then your comments are valid. (I always feel a little ashamed watching PBS without paying them.) But to me this site is not at all like PBS -is more like CNN.COM - a site I regularly use to get lots of international news (text and photos only) for free - but if I decide to pay a premium, I can get video/audio clips and more. Please don't think less of me because I have decided not to pay any money to CNN.COM.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. geol4.JPG

 

[This message was edited by seneca on September 01, 2003 at 06:43 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by pnew:

ok here's my two cents... I've seen better arguments than this in a class of preschoolers. Its sad to think this board is used almost exclusively by adults... sometimes you would never know.


 

icon_confused.gif

 

--------------------

You have the right to defend yourself, even when geocaching!

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quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

I really don't think you were "shooting off your big mouth." I think it just a difference in perception. If you percieve this site to be like "PBS" public TV, then your comments are valid. (I always feel a little ashamed watching PBS without paying them.) But to me this site is not at all like PBS -is more like CNN.COM - a site I regularly use to get lots of international news (text and photos only) for free - but if I decide to pay a premium, I can get video/audio clips and more. Please don't think less of me because I have decided not to pay any money to CNN.COM.

 


 

Another way this site differs is that it doesn't receive your money from you against your will like the taxpayer supported PBS. I resent being forced to support their agenda far too much to feel guilty over not sending them money for Nova or brit comedies.

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quote:
(I always feel a little ashamed watching PBS without paying them.)

 

Now I am feeling guilty over the fact that during the last NPR fundraising drive, I almost called many times but didn't. I listen to them so much! Ack! I'm picking up the phone next time! And I'll get a free coffee cup or something!

 

quote:
Another way this site differs is that it doesn't receive your money from you against your will like the taxpayer supported PBS. I resent being forced to support their agenda far too much to feel guilty over not sending them money for Nova or brit comedies.

 

Hey! I like Nova (don't care for the brit comedies though)! I also love Masterpiece Theatre and local backyard farmer. Uh oh, now another contribution!

 

Off topic, sorry!

 

pokeanim3.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by carleenp:

... don't care for the brit comedies though)!


 

Now those are words worth starting a flame war over! What's wrong with British Comedy? The British comedians are almost the funniest on earth (next to the Canadians of course)!

(oh yeah, I know -- your gonna say that your "entitled" to your opinion.. Well not when it comes to British Comedy!)

 

Ohh.. Bring back Red Dwarf!

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. geol4.JPG

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I can't inject anything that hasn't been said already, but I do think that since it is an option to pay or not we shouldn't bash those that don't. Placing them in the "Hall of Shame" over something that is optional, not good. It is supposed to be a free activity after all.

 

Anyway, it was already said, I just had to add my bit.

 

Have Fun

 

When in doubt...hit it with a big hammer.

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quote:
Originally posted by carleenp:

Hey! I like Nova (don't care for the brit comedies though)! I also love Masterpiece Theatre and local backyard farmer. Uh oh, now another contribution!


 

I do to, but I never catch it.

 

NPR is left wing, IMO. PBS does a little to balance it. My tax dollars go towards supporting views I disagree with. I thought JFK had a quote about that being unacceptable, but I am too tired to find it now. Either way, I have a problem with that on principle.

 

quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

Ohh.. Bring back Red Dwarf!

 


 

Eh, they milked that way too long; the last few seasons were a sad shell of what they were at the start IMO. The early ones were awesome.

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I have BBCA, who needs PBS to see the British comedies.

 

Red Dwarf, Father Ted, Coupling. LOL

 

Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable changes

On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated -- so:

"Something hidden. Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges --

"Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go!"

 

Rudyard Kipling , The Explorer 1898

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quote:
Originally posted by seneca:I always feel a little ashamed watching PBS without paying them.

 

We were members of OPBS years ago. They were interrupting Dr. Who (the only thing we watched) with a pledge drive, and we decided, "What the heck, if it'll keep Dr. Who on."

 

We joined.

 

They cancelled Dr. Who THE VERY NEXT WEEK! icon_mad.gificon_mad.gificon_mad.gif

 

We stopped watching and never renewed.

 

I just know if I pay for a "membership" to geocaching.com, they'll close down the very next week! icon_frown.gif

 

--------------------

You have the right to defend yourself, even when geocaching!

 

[This message was edited by mckee on September 02, 2003 at 12:00 PM.]

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I’ve known the Quest Master for some time and I’m certainly sure that he is not singling any one person out, but I feel that I must toss in my two cents since I’m a candidate for the “hall”. First let me start by saying that I’ve been at this for about a year and average 2+ caches a week-usually family, sometimes solo. That said, it’s my impression that Groundspeak is a private company that generates revenue using three means: merchandising, third party advertisements/partnerships, and premium subscriptions. With respect to the first, I am a customer and will continue to be a customer, especially with Christmas coming up. With respect to the second, I’m sure that I have increased their “circulation”. I’ve placed several caches, many that I consider to be “newbie challenging”, that is, the type of cache that a newbie will find fun (climbing a kid friendly hill, a bit of camo on the container, etc). Many of these were first cache finds for several who are still active in the game. This increased “circulation” expands (or should expand) the value of advertising/partnership dollars, just like a free trade journal subscription.

 

Now onto premium memberships, Am I doing enough with respect to the first two points to offset a premium membership? I don’t know. This is a private company. If this were a public company, I could invest and then have access to an annual report.

 

Anyway, I’m basically undecided and I go back and forth alot on this topic. It’s not a matter of money nor is it a matter of wanting the increased benefits. It’s also not a matter of prestige. My decision would be strictly based on a feeling whether or not I’m doing enough to keep this fine web site solvent.

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Nicely put Team Willow, but I probably should be the top candidate for the “hall” seeing that I have been around since November of 2001 and am not a charter member. For me it’s not about money, membership or the total number of finds, it’s about helping to promote a game/sport that I really enjoy. I don’t think I need to be a premium member to do that.

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Here is what I said about the people who complained that metal travel bugs were too expensive to afford:

 

"...*Caution below *bitterness/eyerubbing tired & crankiness warning**

 

Mostly, I just enjoy the simplicity of the geocaching _game_. There are a whole host of poor teenagers and students and poverty stricken adults that can scrap together a few dollars a day for cigarettes or booze or lottery tickets that can serve as great examples of how if you want/need something enough, you can find a way to afford the difference between $5.00 (metal) and, say, $2.50 (plastic) for a TB tag. I can't imagine a situation where literally a couple of dollars is going to make or break someone's choice to do something they really like to do..."

 

Same sort of arguement here. I can't imagine anyone who really can't afford this. I pay $3.00 a month. That's one thin dime a day. That's less than I pay for a gallon of water from my tap. Anyone can afford $3.00 a month if they want to. Anyone. Even the homeless. I'm sure.

 

If you just don't want to pay because of some ethical issue, then I'm sure no one will think less of you. I think there are a number of geocachers who enjoy being "outsiders"...that's fine, too.

 

Please, if you can, help pay for this website's upkeep. I pay $3 a month. I buy travel bugs, I buy merchandise. I don't feel like a hero. I just feel like paying that one thin dime a day for something that I love to do.

 

If you feel guilty, then it's a sign you should pay (or you need therapy). If you don't feel guilty, more power to you. If you think that the fact that you contribute to the game by being active on the bulletin boards or placing caches, etc. makes it okay to not pay, you're devaluing those of us who paid and also contribute in many other ways.

 

Blahblahblah.

 

Just cough it up. It's not noble to pay, it's not noble to not pay. We're all just regular people and we all ought to pay The Frog frog.gif and TPTB for investing themselves in this glorius geocaching hub.

 

It's sort of boring to make such a big deal about one thin dime a day for such fun!

 

If you don't pay, then, as my 4 year old son says, "Oh yeah, well I'm not going to be your best buddy!" LOL! icon_wink.gif

 

Those of you who choose not to pay for your fun...enjoy yourself on those who do. icon_smile.gif

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quote:
My two cents would be for ONLY paying members to be able to post in the forums, they can read them but no post.

quote:
I totally disagree with JoGPS about non-members not being able to post in the forums. How else would newbies and other persons interact with the persons who love this game.

We need our own area (Getting Started, General, CITO, Member Only...)

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Well I guess I should be in the Hall of Shame since I have triple digits in finds and am not a premium member.

 

I feel so dirty.

 

"Following animal paths may make the bushwacking a little easier, but probably won't pay off in the long run, since deer tend not to geocache much." - Geocacher Peeve on the Vaught Ranch Bushwackin Fun (B.D. #2) cache

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halls of shame are just a bad idea.

 

and the really great thing about the site is that you can use it for free. i pay. i'm glad i do. i don't care about the perks. in order for the core of the game to be really free, you have to be able to not pay without shame or guilt or blame.

 

i do not pay my public radio station. i used to, but they wouldn't stop calling me at home asking for more money. so i told them that if they called me again, i wasn't sending any at all. i may give them another chance in a year or two. i may not.

 

i'm thinking of changing my forum title to 'geocacher' so nobody can tell i've paid.

 

-====)) -))))))))))))

presta schrader

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I always thought the basic services were supposed to be free. If someone only wants to use the basic level, that's fine, let them. I use CNN.com and Hotmail every day and don't pay a dime. I could opt to pay for more services but I don't need them.

 

I kicked in my money for the PQ's. My payment wasn't meant to be some show of support for the site. It was a payment for services. There are a lot of websites whose business model involves giving away some content for nothing and getting folks who want more to pay for it.

 

Let's not turn this into some type of country club. What's next, I'll have to spend some minimum amount in the store??

 

Now where did I park my car??????? monkes.gif

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