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Hall of Shame


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Somebody is probably going to say that this has already been discussed but here goes...

 

There has been a lot of complaining lately including some statements to the effect that some people are not going pay for their membership if certain improvements are not made to the site such as a separate area for virts, maps, statistics, etc.

 

I pay my dues not for improvements but to keep this site going at least as well as it has been running. I feel like I owe it to them. I don't mind paying the freight for newbies and casual users and I certainly wouldn't want for this to become a pay site but there is a certain category of geocacher that I resent. There are some out there who are very active in this game and have hundreds of finds and don't ante up the pittance that is required to become a charter member and support this site. It cannot be justified if one considers all of the time, energy, and money that one would normally have to spend to ring up triple digits of smiley faces. These persons belong in the geocaching hall of shame.

 

Johnny

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Well I've a total of 23 finds so I guess I'm still a newbe. I do buy from the geocache store so I think I help support it in a little way. I've been thinking about becoming a charter member but haven't decided as of yet. Oh I'm not looking for anything other then what they already do.

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And will you label those who have to watch their pennies the same way due to unemployment? It may not be much to you, but it can be the difference between paying a bill and not paying a bill.

 

I said it in another string and I'll say it here...

 

Be wary of labeling people. Those labels have a nasty way of coming back and sticking on you.

 

Cheers!

TL

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I don't think he was saying in any way that people who cannot afford it are slackers. If its a difference of paying a bill or not I say pay the bill. Geocaching is free and will remain so from all I've read, its just that if you can support it you should.

 

Crap I think I just talked myself into becoming a charter member.

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I for one signed up as a paying member as soon as it was offered. I have less than 40 finds in over 2 years due to a physical problem. However this has been the cheapest most rewarding sport I have ever participated in.

 

There are people out there that have never paid...but they have contributed to this site in one way or another. They have either purchached something from the Geocaching store, or maybe even have bought one of my hiking staffs icon_biggrin.gif or maybe they indtroduced someone else to the game that is now a paying member, or perhaps made the local news to help spread the word.

 

Don't be so quick to judge. There are many reasons out there that people don't pay to be a member.

 

El Diablo

 

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

http://www.geo-hikingstick.com

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Hall of Shame , I love that name and yes it does label people and it should.

 

How much did your gps cost.

How much does you internet connection cost a year

How much fun do you have finding caches

How much fun do you have posting on these forums

How much do you complain about having to pay when you can have it for free.

 

Yep your are a slacker if you are not a member.

 

A lot of the people complaining about this site are non-members and posting to the forums, and by there post are trying to change this great site into what they would like it to be for them, a non paying member.

 

My two cents would be for ONLY paying members to be able to post in the forums, they can read them but no post.

 

Enough Said………………….JOE

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JoGPS U SUK

 

Well dammit I've had a blast so I went and became a charter member with it renewing each year, hope your happy!!

Honestly though I feel that this should be supported by all that can afford it and left free to those that may not be in the position to fork over the bucks. We've all been up and down in our lives so we should not label anyone for any reason. So JoGPS chill on those enjoying the sport and are not paying.

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No it isn't enough said. You made assumptions:

 

How much did your gps cost.

>>>Purchased before unemployment

 

How much does you internet connection cost a year

>>>Part of my employment search budget. It doesn't include extraneous memberships.

 

How much fun do you have finding caches

>>>Your point?

 

How much fun do you have posting on these forums

>>>I enjoy it. I haven't complained either.

 

How much do you complain about having to pay when you can have it for free.

>>>Again, I haven't complained. Frankly, I'm appreciative of the TPTB that made it free for those that might be just a bit financially cramped. I'm personally appreciative you and Quest Master don't appear to be in that position of decision making.

 

Yep your are a slacker if you are not a member.

>>>I contribute in other ways. By advising as best I can and helping newbies where I can. Sometimes, I'm not quite so successful. Does that sill make me a slacker. Fine. You labeled me. If that makes you feel good, then good for you.

 

Cheers!

TL

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Gee - what a coincidence. I finally get around to renewing my subscription and a day later someone suggests a "hall of shame" for those who don't. Such a "hall of shame" is a lousy idea, and I have a feeling that Geocaching.com would not be in favor.

 

When premium subcription (originally charter subscription) first came out a lot of people did not like the idea of having 1st and 2nd class members (including those who paid for subscriptions). Jeremy himself went to great lengths to stress that subscription was going to be a positive thing, and non-subscription was not going to be a negative.

 

Groundspeak has generously made membership in Geocaching.com free for everyone. That's their business, not ours. I am not going to look down on those who simply accept such generosity. Members, regardles as to whether or not they are paying subscribers, should be treated by other members with equal respect. Those who don't want to treat all members with equal respect, are the ones who should be ashamed.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. geol4.JPG

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quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

Gee - what a coincidence. I finally get around to renewing my subscription and a day later someone suggests a "hall of shame" for those who don't. Such a "hall of shame" is a lousy idea, and I have a feeling that Geocaching.com would not be in favor.

 

When premium subcription (originally charter subscription) first came out a lot of people did not like the idea of having 1st and 2nd class members (including those who paid for subscriptions). Jeremy himself went to great lengths to stress that subscription was going to be a positive thing, and non-subscription was not going to be a negative.

 

Groundspeak has generously made membership in Geocaching.com _free_ for everyone. That's their business, not ours. I am not going to look down on those who simply accept such generosity. Members, regardles as to whether or not they are paying subscribers, should be treated by other members with equal respect. Those who don't want to treat all members with equal respect, are the ones who should be ashamed.

 

_I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me._ http://www.cslaw.ca/geol4.JPG


 

Thank you Seneca. That was well said.

 

Cheers!

TL

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Totem,

 

Please reread my post carefully. I do not mind paying the freight for the poor or unemployed either. I specifically said that people who are very active in the game and are finding hundreds of caches should pay. I really do have to think that if somebody has the resources (money) to chase down 100 caches then they probably should have enough to pay for a membership. There are no doubt some exceptions but I was speaking in general terms and had no intention of labeling anyone. If the shoe fits, wear it. If not, move on. BTW, I took a quick peek at your stats and observed that you wouldn't even fit into the category I described.

 

I totally disagree with JoGPS about non-members not being able to post in the forums. How else would newbies and other persons interact with the persons who love this game.

 

Johnny

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quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

Gee - what a coincidence. I finally get around to renewing my subscription and a day later someone suggests a "hall of shame" for those who don't. Such a "hall of shame" is a lousy idea, and I have a feeling that Geocaching.com would not be in favor.


 

I don't think that I said that there should actually be such a thing as an official geocaching hall of shame. I totally agree that that would be a terrible idea. I was just trying to make a point. I should learn to keep my big mouth shut.

 

Johnny

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I'll concede I didn't fully encompass your intended note. Rereading it did produce a different light and I apologize for any slight.

 

I still object to the labeling though. It leads to inappropriate extensions in attitudes. I don't know if there is an agreeable solution to the problem you have perceptively noted. I have seen what a "Hall of Shame" can do. It leads to a negative atmosphere of anything that you were really trying to promote in a positive way.

 

Perhaps a Hall of Fame? Nah, then that leads into computing how much Groundspeak is making on this, and that discussion was thrashed ad naseum.

 

I'm open to any positive ideas that doesn't lead to a negative atmosphere.

 

Cheers!

TL

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quote:
Originally posted by Quest Master:

... I do not mind paying the freight for the poor or unemployed either.


 

Johnny, don't worry, you are not paying the freight for anyone. Groundspeak.com pays the freight for this site. You bought a subscription and I hope you get your money's worth. I renewed mine, primarily because I was missing my pocket queries - those alone are worth a measly $30.00.

 

Geocaching.com is not a charity, and nobody needs to feel morally inferior (or superior) on the basis of whether or not they decide to pay for a subscription. If Groundspeak's business model is not working, I'm sure they will do something about it.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. geol4.JPG

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quote:
Originally posted by seneca:

If Groundspeak's business model is not working, I'm sure they will do something about it.


 

Agreed. And remember that we don't have the figures on how many paying vs nonpaying members there are, along with knowing the costs and income generated by this site. Nor do we need to know.

 

That Quack Cacher:

Lone Duck

 

When you don't know where you're going, every road will take you there.

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As soon as I was addicted to geocaching I felt it only right to pay for my "fix". Let those who can afford it take it on a trial basis and pay when they've decided they are are hooked, let those who try it and decide it's not for them feel good about not having had to pay for a trial period. And let those who can afford it, try it by paying and quit when ever, and those who can't afford it, play for free, perhaps meeting new people who can then point them to gainful or better employment and then they can afford to pay too? In other words it seems to be working fine. I hope.

 

Cache you later,

Planet

 

So many caches, so little time.

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quote:
There are some out there who are very active in this game and have hundreds of finds and don't ante up the pittance that is required to become a charter member and support this site. It cannot be justified if one considers all of the time, energy, and money that one would normally have to spend to ring up triple digits of smiley faces. These persons belong in the geocaching hall of shame.

 

I'm deeply impressed by how well you can read the hearts and minds of other people and make judgments. I am especially in awe of your inability to conceive that there might be legitimate reasons for some long-term cachers not to become paying members.

 

Actually, no, I'm not that impressed. Anybody could do it by just not thinking.

 

Um, you do know that there was geocaching before there was geocaching.com, right? And that there are people besides the geocaching.com employees who have made enormous contributions to the sport? With no thought for compensation, I might add. You might want to consider how those people reacted when geocaching.com sort of took over.

 

Putting other people in a "Hall of Shame" without knowing the entire story is a risky business. It can make you look very, very foolish.

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We're probably due to be listed as Shameful because we haven't "joined." Sure, we try to spend $5-$10 on the stuff we leave, and we aren't always good at listing everything out. We also pull a lot of crap out of caches, broken trash that someone has thoughtfully dumped in the can because they believed somebody might really want a severed Barbie head, a cut length of coax cable ad other rubbish. After we've emptied it, we put good stuff in it.

 

We just haven't paid for membership.

 

--------------------

You have the right to defend yourself, even when geocaching!

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LMAO I am getting slammed on another thread for saying peeps leave trash. Yes I just became a charter member tonight because at this time it will not effect my lifestyle. I think the site needs to stay free for everyone and those of us who can pay should. 2 years ago I couldn't so there is no judgement happening here, we all go through our ups and downs in life but should not be excluded from it.

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quote from Xitron

(Yes I just became a charter member tonight}

 

You are a premium member not a charter member, charter members are members that subscribed before a certain date. After that date they are premium members. Also I believe if a charter member drops off the list, when they renew they regain their charter membership. I think thats the way Jeremy explained in a post some time back icon_cool.gif

 

PS Anyway I will find out when I renew icon_smile.gif

 

All who look are not lost

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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:

quote:
Originally posted by Xitron:

...I am getting slammed on another thread...


 

That's not slammed. That's the forum welcom wagon.


 

Amen Brother! Can I get a Hallelujah???

 

Anyway, my suggestion is that we DO have a Geocaching Hall of Shame... but not for people, for caches. I say close this thread and open another for caches to be nominated for *The worst of the worst* awards. I'm sure there will be disagreements, but if there is any questions about a certain cache, bring it to that thread and let it be discussed. Kind of a central location for talking trash. We might even get some thing cleared up instead of having twenty threads talking about lame caches. Ya think?

 

Otherwise, I'll just go soak my head, and chant:

 

*Thank you sir, may I have another?*

 

texasgeocaching_sm.gif

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

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Most everyone who has posted to this thread has an avatar. I believe the capability of having an avatar means you are a premium member. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

On topic: I don't think it should matter to premium/charter members whether anyone else is a paying member or not. Only to Groundspeak. It's their company and they will deal with profitability as needed.

 

It would be interesting to hear from some non-paying members.

 

==============="If it feels good...do it"================

 

**(the other 9 out of 10 voices in my head say: "Don't do it.")**

 

.

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quote:
Originally posted by sept1c_tank:

Most everyone who has posted to this thread has an avatar. I believe the capability of having an avatar means you are a premium member. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

_On topic:_ I don't think it should matter to premium/charter members whether _anyone_ else is a paying member or not. Only to Groundspeak. It's their company and they will deal with profitability as needed.

 

It would be interesting to hear from some non-paying members.

 

===============_"If it feels good...do it"_================

 

**_(the other 9 out of 10 voices in my head say: "Don't do it.")_**

 

.


 

I am currently a non-paying member. When my employment status changes, I will make my monetary contribution. I believe in supporting this site and support in otherways as much as I can until then.

 

Cheers!

TL

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Well, I feel it is time to confess.... yes, at one time, I was a non-paying member...

 

I know, I know, you are shocked and amazed at such a revelation... but it must be said.. I Geocached without having paid a red cent to this site, and I am ashamed. I feel I have taken advantage and been slovenly in so many ways as a result of the guilt that has built up inside of me as a result. I was on Geocaching welfare.....sob, sob, sob.....

 

Now, I know some of you are going to try and console me, you are going to say, *But Breaktrack, that was before there was a membership to purchase....*, or, *Don't feel bad, NO ONE ELSE was paying either...* but it would be fruitless.... I would still feel my burden upon me...

 

How am I going to resolve this issue within myself you ask? Well, I'll tell you, I have written a will stating that when I die, Jeremy gets everything... tha's right, everything I own will go to the frog.... my dying wish.....I only hope it will make up for all the time I spent spongeing off of people better than myself. In that way I hope to make up for a life of dependency on others in order to hunt Tupperware... I only hope it will be enough... (insert more sobbing here).

 

(hehehehe, man I have fun in here....LOL)

 

texasgeocaching_sm.gif

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

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I am an unemployed college student who is currently NOT in a position to be a charter member... but I am, and in a month I plan to renew my membership. I became a charter member after about 15 finds and I enjoyed this sport so much, I was willing to eat Ramen Noodles for a few weeks instead of McDonalds and TV dinners. Talk about sacrifices. Besides... When I go and spend 500 dollars on books, 30 bucks doesn't seem like too much to put into my favorite thing to do. I really wish I could have spent that book money on geocaching actually.

 

Seriously though... I have spent so much money that I just don't have on geocaching, it's ridiculous. I bought a yellow e-trex... then decided I wanted an upgrade so I bought a Garmin V. Then I wanted a signature item... thus far I've spent over a hundred bucks on consecrated Buddhist amulets to leave in caches, and plenty more on business cards, etc. The least I can do is pony up 30 bucks to the site that makes it all tick.

 

-Zach

-Team Zen-

migo_sig_logo.jpg

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I lost my job back in January. I can barely afford my truck insurance or gas to get around, and the only reason they haven't repo'ed my truck is that I never changed my address on my license. Do you know what it's like to worry about your vehicle getting towed every time you hear a diesel engine outside your window or to worry about where your next meal is coming from? Yet I still geocache and even managed to put together the $$ to get a Plaque made to put at the site of the first geocache (thank you, sponsors!), travel up there and place it. I can barely survive here. I am on the edge every single day. Thanks so much for making me feel bad about not sending in $30 for a premium membership. Maybe someday I will see YOU out on the street, down on your luck, and then I will give YOU a guilt trip about not paying.

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quote:
Originally posted by Breaktrack:

Well, I feel it is time to confess.... yes, at one time, I was a non-paying member...

 

I know, I know, you are shocked and amazed at such a revelation... but it must be said.. I Geocached without having paid a red cent to this site, and I am ashamed. I feel I have taken advantage and been slovenly in so many ways as a result of the guilt that has built up inside of me as a result. I was on Geocaching welfare.....sob, sob, sob.....

 

Now, I know some of you are going to try and console me, you are going to say, *But Breaktrack, that was before there was a membership to purchase....*, or, *Don't feel bad, NO ONE ELSE was paying either...* but it would be fruitless.... I would still feel my burden upon me...

 

How am I going to resolve this issue within myself you ask? Well, I'll tell you, I have written a will stating that when I die, Jeremy gets everything... tha's right, everything I own will go to the frog.... my dying wish.....I only hope it will make up for all the time I spent spongeing off of people better than myself. In that way I hope to make up for a life of dependency on others in order to hunt Tupperware... I only hope it will be enough... (insert more sobbing here).

 

(hehehehe, man I have fun in here....LOL)

 

http://www.texasgeocaching.com

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.


 

Crackin MAU!

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We have paid our $30.00 to become a member here, and thought that was dirt cheap for all the services offered. That is our opinion based on our income level. We have a memeber of our family that wanted to geochache very much, but the cost of a gps and the 30 bucks might as well been a million dollars. My husband and I bought them a gps and took them out to show them the ropes.

 

Did I hook them up to this board? Yes

Have they joined and paid the $30 dollars? No.

Do I think any less of them for this? NO!!!

Do we care that it doesn't say member under our name? NO

 

We are very new to this sport and board, and view it as a group of people all interested in the same thing. We really don't care who has paid the 30 bucks and who has not.

 

Thanks for listening to my .02.

 

We used to be directionally challenged, now we have a GPS, and are high-tech directionally challenged. At least now we know where we are when we are lost.

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SepticTank....no you don't have to be a premium member to have an avatar....

 

I think what most have expressed here, the fact that ones ability/willingness to pay, goes hand in hand with the stats thing. Just as Seneca stated what Jeremy stated earlier before,the membership should be a positive thing and not a negative thing and it should not rate the users into classes. I think it goes along with not rating the users with the total number of finds either. But it does and just like it shouldn't, I don't think whether you are paying or not, should make a difference. It should be Jeremy's decision as to whether or not it does.

 

Brian

 

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

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You know, when I was first introduced to Geocaching, I couldn't wait to become a "charter". That way, my status would be uplifted. Wow! Great!

 

And... I did NOT have the funds at the time, so my brother actually paid my membership for me.

 

Yup, I am a SPONGE. What kind of sticker do I recieve for that one?

 

Really though, it doesn't matter if you are a paying member or not, since we all share several values that relate to geocaching.

 

Geocachers are the heart and soul of this sport, and what comes around goes around.

 

Non paying members surely will add to the sport one way or another whether it is thirty bucks, a killer trade item or a super CITO.

 

Give 'em a break...Sheesh!

 

48511_5100.JPG

 

Green acres is the place to be.....

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I support the site.

 

Its 30 bucks a YEAR, not a MONTH. Thats $2.50 per month. I spend more on geo trades per month than that.

 

And oh yeah...I'm unemployed.

 

I like the site. I love that i can come on here and not have a ton of pop up ads or have jeremy sell my email adress and get a ton of unwanted junkmail.

 

So everything on here may not be perfect for everyone, but I enjoy it. I also keep in mind that jeremy reads these forums and could be working on some of the people's ideas that have been mentioned in the forum.

 

"The more I study nature, the more I am amazed at the Creator."

- Louis Pasteur

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quote:
Originally posted by Ce'Nedra:

I also keep in mind that jeremy reads these forums and could be working on some of the people's ideas that have been mentioned in the forum.


 

Yes, Jeremy has demonstrated an impressive ability to latch onto a new idea and quickly put it to good use... icon_wink.gif

 

(Gee, how awkward that this post appears in this thread rather than the "Compliment" thread.) icon_wink.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by mckee:

.

.

.

We also pull a lot of crap out of caches, broken trash that someone has thoughtfully dumped in the can because they believed somebody might really want a severed Barbie head, a cut length of coax cable ad other rubbish. After we've emptied it, we put good stuff in it.

.

.

.

 


 

I, personally, appreciate the grass roots level of cache maintennce of others which makes this enjoyable and even possible. I recently visited a few caches I have already logged to, primarily, check up on them after hearing of some "construction" in the park. I'm glad I did. The last person hiding a cache didn't place it in the right spot and it would have been clearly visible by anyone who glaced over from the new bike trail (which used to be no more than a dirt trail few knew about). I rehid it and made a note about the changes in the area.

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quote:
Originally posted by Zach and Shannon - Team Zen:

I am an unemployed college student who is currently NOT in a position to be a charter member... but I am, and in a month I plan to renew my membership. I became a charter member after about 15 finds and I enjoyed this sport so much, I was willing to eat Ramen Noodles for a few weeks instead of McDonalds and TV dinners. Talk about sacrifices. Besides... When I go and spend 500 dollars on books, 30 bucks doesn't seem like too much to put into my favorite thing to do. I really wish I could have spent that book money on geocaching actually.

 

Seriously though... I have spent so much money that I just don't have on geocaching, it's ridiculous. I bought a yellow e-trex... then decided I wanted an upgrade so I bought a Garmin V. Then I wanted a signature item... thus far I've spent over a hundred bucks on consecrated Buddhist amulets to leave in caches, and plenty more on business cards, etc. The least I can do is pony up 30 bucks to the site that makes it all tick.

 

-Zach

-Team Zen-

http://www.mi-geocaching.org/


 

That is a good attitude. How many movies could you go to or rent for $30? How many dinners in a restaurant? Compared to other entertainment, it isn't much. If I didn't have geocaching, even the little I do, I would feel pretty depressed.

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I became a member because I haven't contributed in other, more important, ways yet. I have not planted a single cache. Although it does not seem like much of an issue, I worry too much about the implications (fines, being sued or something).

 

In addition, to the membership, I am working on a sig item I hope will "contribute."

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Active, non-paying members make a great contribution to Geocaching. This game cannot work without lots of people willing to play. The simple acts of hiding and/or finding caches are an important (and in fact essential) contribution to Geoacaching. I myself would not be interested in hiding a cache, unless I felt there was a good chance that there are going to be members out there willing to find it. I would have no caches to find, unless there are members willing to hide them. This, I suspect, is why membership is free. Groundspeak could of course, suddenly decide that only paid up subscribers were entitled to access this site. The obvious impact would be that the game would rapidly go down the tube, because we would lose most of the members who contribute only by playing. Following the loss of these members, would be the loss of most paying subscribers, because they would not want to pay a premium membership fee, for a site that became useless because of a severely diminished membership.

 

I think that Groundspeak should focus on subscriber benefits if they want to increase the number of paid up subscribers. As I said earlier, pocket queries are worth $30.00 a year to me. However, many others would probably prefer to spend their money on something else.

 

All of you members that play and do not pay, I thank you for your contribution, and I am certain Groundspeak does as well, because you greatly enhance this site.

 

I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. geol4.JPG

 

[This message was edited by seneca on August 31, 2003 at 01:00 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Xitron:

I don't think he was saying in any way that people who cannot afford it are slackers. If its a difference of paying a bill or not I say pay the bill. Geocaching is free and will remain so from all I've read, its just that if you can support it you should.

 

Crap I think I just talked myself into becoming a charter member.


 

I think you talked me into it too...thanks

Just got done with paypal icon_razz.gif

 

"Never squat with yur spurs on"

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quote:
Originally posted by SamLowrey:

I, personally, appreciate the grass roots level of cache maintennce of others which makes this enjoyable and even possible. I recently visited a few caches I have already logged to, primarily, check up on them after hearing of some "construction" in the park. I'm glad I did. The last person hiding a cache didn't place it in the right spot and it would have been clearly visible by anyone who glaced over from the new bike trail (which used to be no more than a dirt trail few knew about). I rehid it and made a note about the changes in the area.


 

I agree. It seems to me that the community effort to keep thins fun at cache sites is far more important than "Who here didn't pay?"

 

--------------------

You have the right to defend yourself, even when geocaching!

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The beauty of this business model is the very fact that the core of the game is free. You don't have to pay one red cent to find some caches. You type in your zipcode, get the clues, punch them into mapquest or topozone, and go hunting! It's easy and it's free.

 

Another thing you have to realize is the fact that GC.com is only a listing service. Sure they have a few instructions, but mainly it's a place for people to place caches. GC.com isn't the beginning, middle, and end of caching. What GC.com has done is bring it into the main stream. Some people think this is good, some think it's bad. Either way, what is has done is make GC.com the place to list your cache.

 

Personally, I feel it is not shameful in any way to take advantage of a free site. If you want to contribute to geocaching, fine. You want to contribute to geocaching.com, that's fine, too. Me, I like the feeling of helping TPTB pay the light bill. In exchange, they give me a few extra services. That's cool.

 

But in no way do I think people should feel shame for not contributing to geocaching.com.

 

CR

 

72057_2000.gif

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yes the site is free, but is it free to the one who runs the servers that you "You type in your zipcode, get the clues, punch them into mapquest or topozone, and go hunting!" There is an expence to hosting a site I believe? I could be wrong if so correct me here.

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