CCW permits?(While Geocaching)

[Guest bearboy]

In Michigan it is now easier than before to get a Concealed weapons permit.I have met all of our states requirements and will be getting a permit soon.My question is ...How many Geocachers carry some sort of protection out there on the trail?I dont plan on carrying 24-7 because I live in a low crime area.When I go to larger cities that usually means more crime.So I will be carrying then for my safety.What do you think ? Should I carry or not?(When I am looking for caches in higher crime areas?I would run before I would shoot anyways,but that dont always work.Please dont think that I am looking to start blasting the homeless or anything.Has anyone had an encounter with thugs while geocaching yet?

[Guest The Bees]

The only thug I have ever run into was in a city

 

Seriously though, I have had a CCW permit for close to 20 years now, and, not wanting to turn this thread into a anti-/pro-gun stance, I would say if you have met your states requirements, have a permit, and the park and/or your state law has no restrictions on carrying in the park then go ahead if you feel like it.

 

I tend NOT to carry when geocaching as many parks have a NO FIREARMS sign, and I do not want to leave my pistol in the car. I have yet to meet anyone with criminal intent on a trail as most people of that ilk wouldn't want to go through the time and trouble to drive/walk to rob you. Criminals by nature are lazy and hunting for someone on a trail is just too much work!

 

As for protection from animals, I personally dont see the need. Most animals would rather run from you. If you were in certain parts of Alaska, or going into some seriously wild territory then maybe carrying wouldn't be such a bad idea.

 

Anyway, there's my two kopeks..

 

Later

Mike B

 

The Bees

[Guest The Bees]

The only thug I have ever run into was in a city

 

Seriously though, I have had a CCW permit for close to 20 years now, and, not wanting to turn this thread into a anti-/pro-gun stance, I would say if you have met your states requirements, have a permit, and the park and/or your state law has no restrictions on carrying in the park then go ahead if you feel like it.

 

I tend NOT to carry when geocaching as many parks have a NO FIREARMS sign, and I do not want to leave my pistol in the car. I have yet to meet anyone with criminal intent on a trail as most people of that ilk wouldn't want to go through the time and trouble to drive/walk to rob you. Criminals by nature are lazy and hunting for someone on a trail is just too much work!

 

As for protection from animals, I personally dont see the need. Most animals would rather run from you. If you were in certain parts of Alaska, or going into some seriously wild territory then maybe carrying wouldn't be such a bad idea.

 

Anyway, there's my two kopeks..

 

Later

Mike B

 

The Bees

[Guest xanthari]

We have a CCW law in Texas now. I have my CCW. I carry all the time. Especially if I am in a wooded area of a city/state park that is very close to a large city. I am not out looking for an excuse to use it. I am not out looking for bad guys to pull down on. I do, however, take my family with me everytime I go hiking/camping/geocachine and I will NOT be taken advantage of by ANYONE who thinks that they might like to have some of my equipment more than me. I will NOT allow anyone to harm or take advantage of my children or my wife. The year after I got out of the army I came home and witnessed 2 shootings, both within a few miles of my home, and both which resulted in the death of at least one bystander...I WILL NOT be a bystander. It is my right to protect my life, and the lives of my family. It is my right to keep and bear arms. I am NOT a criminal. I am NOT a vigilantie.(i could never spell that word). I am NOT trying to enforce any law or any code. I do NOT brandish my firearm ever. In fact most people never know I have one, I dont go around telling everyone "hey i gots me a gun here"... My firearm is my LAST choice in defense, however, I will NOT hesitate to use that option once it is determined that there is no other way to resolve an issue. I also carry a much more intimidating self defense tool....a friction lock baton....I keep it in a velcro belt pouch the same size as a normal lock-back knife...I HAVE used this before, simply deploying it has caused people to move back..and rethink thier position (a couple of drunk morons were insisting I give them a ride home after dark in a city park) without having to actually do any physical damage. OK now that im off the soapbox.

 

Carry if you feel you need to. Make sure you have a CCW if you live in a state that requires one. Remember that you are not a police officer...and you are not responsible for enforcing the law and arresting/detaining possible suspects involved in criminal activity. Never draw your firearm unless you actually intend to use it. Think about the results of doing so before hand.

 

Theres all my 2 cents on that.

 

Be safe.

 

X.

[Guest mfratto]

I don't own a gun, nor would I carry one if I had one (and a CCW permit of course).

 

If you are going somewhere that you feel requires you to carry a weapon, perhaps you should rethink your destination.

 

Btw, if you are careful, and smart, you really don't need a weapon even in cities.

 

mike

[Guest arffer]

Background:

Previously held an FFL and was a firearms dealer in PA.

Competed in Police Combat League.

Had and used a CCW in PA.

etc...

 

Okay, so I am pro gun-owner rights. Having thus said, I would strongly suggest you consult the leading expert's books on the use of lethal force, Massad Ayoob. His book "In the Gravest Extreme" is a landmark work.

 

http://www.packing.org has a database for each state regarding CCW laws, but more important it has links to many states laws on the use of lethal force.

 

My primary point is know your state's laws regarding the use of lethal force. Many states DO NOT allow the use of lethal force for the protection of property.

 

 

[This message has been edited by arffer (edited 29 July 2001).]

[Guest arffer]

been edited by arffer (edited 29 July 2001).]

[Guest suntzu]

geeeeez....

If you think you need a gun while geocaching, I hope you also have eyes in the back of your head.

[Guest The Bees]

You can have eyes in the back of your head Suntzu...

 

It's called situational awareness. That means not walking around like a wide eyed-sheep, eyes locked to the front and head down like the vast majority of people do. It means to constantly scan your surroundings and use your peripheral vision. It also means to trust those hinky feelings you sometimes get.

 

Later

Mike B

 

The Bees

[Guest The Bees]

You can have eyes in the back of your head Suntzu...

 

It's called situational awareness. That means not walking around like a wide eyed-sheep, eyes locked to the front and head down like the vast majority of people do. It means to constantly scan your surroundings and use your peripheral vision. It also means to trust those hinky feelings you sometimes get.

 

Later

Mike B

 

The Bees

[Guest Clanggedin]

I had to register my hands as concealed weapons so I could put them in my pockets.

 

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu/Muay Thai combo is the ammo I use.

[Guest Clanggedin]

I had to register my hands as concealed weapons so I could put them in my pockets.

 

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu/Muay Thai combo is the ammo I use.

[Guest tnunnery]

If you meet the requirements, have a legal right, know how to use the weapon and feel that it is necessary, then yes, carry it.

 

Unfortunately, even the places that seem the safest aren't always. You never know. Remember to never draw it unless you intend to use it.

 

As a constable, I carry when I feel that it is necessary even thought I could technically carry anywhere, all of the time.

[Guest c.mathis]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clanggedin:

I had to register my hands as concealed weapons so I could put them in my pockets.

 

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu/Muay Thai combo is the ammo I use.

---

 

That's cool. Just remember what they say, "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight (in your case your hands)".

[Guest c.mathis]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clanggedin:

I had to register my hands as concealed weapons so I could put them in my pockets.

 

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu/Muay Thai combo is the ammo I use.

---

 

That's cool. Just remember what they say, "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight (in your case your hands)".

[Guest The Bees]

Hehe..

 

Sounds like my old martial arts instructor when he was asked what move he would use if confronted with a mugger who had a gun.

 

His reply... "The hand over my wallet and watch technique because you'll never be faster then the 1/4 inch it takes to pull a trigger!"

 

A wise man indeed!

 

Later

Mike B

 

The Bees

[Guest bradrobb]

I live in Canada where we can not carry a concealed weapon. But after reading all the replies here I feel sorry that you think you need to carry a gun to go hunt for a cache.

 

I would advice all cacher's to go buy the orange hats that they sell here so you will be seen out in the woods.

[Guest arffer]

bradrobb,

 

quote:

---

But after reading all the replies here I feel sorry that you think you need to carry a gun to go hunt for a cache.

---

 

This comment interested me, so I tallied up the above posts:

 

Should I carry? - 1

Yes - 2

No - 3

Informational only - 2

Slightly off topic - 4

 

Maybe I just missed your point. That's the problem with postings, mis-communications often happen; plus I tend to be a bit dense.

 

[This message has been edited by arffer (edited 31 July 2001).]

[Guest Clanggedin]

I was robbed in Argentina. The guy stayed about 10-15 away from me with the gun. I didn't have any money in my pants pockets or my backpack, so he stole my shoes. After he left I walked to the next Bus Stop, pulled a $10 from a pocket inside my shirt and took a Bus home.

 

The thing that has saved my life many times is definately awareness. I wouldn't have gotten robbed back then, but my buddy had not been paying attention and was sucked into the "Do you have a dollar?" gig.

 

I have used my martial arts skills many times where using a gun would have been too excessive.

 

I can take my weapon to the Winter Olympics. You'll have to leave yours at home.

 

You may want to take a little self-defense training just in case you don't have your gun with you.

 

NOW If you are Geocaching in Queens, then take a gun. I live in sheltered Utah where I can kepp my car doors unlocked and not have to worry too much

 

 

[This message has been edited by Clanggedin (edited 31 July 2001).]

[Guest c.mathis]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bradrobb:

But after reading all the replies here I feel sorry that you think you need to carry a gun to go hunt for a cache.

 

---

 

No need to feel sorry for anyone.

 

NOBODY has said they think there's a "need" to carry a gun while geocaching. What people are saying is, "If it's legal, it's up to you".

 

Carrying a gun has NOTHING to do with geocaching, per se. It has to do with WHERE you are going and if you feel safe and that's up to the individual.

[Guest makaio]

e one can (and in my case has) run into less than desireable people, it's very comforting knowing you have the ability to defend yourself against bodily harm should these people decide to attempt to take advantage of you.

 

I feel sorry for those who willingly venture into these areas with no form of protection assuming anyone they meet will be of the same moral character they are.

[Guest c.mathis]

quote:

---

Originally posted by makaio:

...and as many caches are placed many miles into forested land (at least here in Oregon) where one can (and in my case has) run into less than desireable people, it's very comforting knowing you have the ability to defend yourself against bodily harm should these people decide to attempt to take advantage of you.

 

I feel sorry for those who willingly venture into these areas with no form of protection assuming anyone they meet will be of the same moral character they are.

---

 

We live close to the Mexican border and spend a good deal of time in some very remote sections of the desert. Many of these areas are used by illegal immigrants and drug smugglers. We have no fear of, or problem with, the immigrants themselves. But, the smugglers and "Coyotes", (people who smuggle the immigrants) are cause for concern. When we feel the need to carry a firearm, it is carried in plain view, not concealed, for two reasons. 1. People seeing this may think twice about causing a problem (acts as a deterrent). 2. If the firearm is concealed, it's not readily accessible.

 

We never carry a firearm when geocaching.

 

[This message has been edited by c.mathis (edited 31 July 2001).]

[Guest bradrobb]

I was reading the reply about Utah.

 

I can take my ski pole and defend myself, thats why they have points on them.

 

And don't forget we have our big Husky dogs with us also when we go caching.

 

I still think that if it that unsafe to go for a walk in the woods that there is a problem with the world we live in.

[Guest Mike_Teague]

Unfortunately, there is a "problem" with the world.

 

People who carry already realize that and have come to accept it, and instead of hand-wringing, have actually done something about it... We've accepted the responsibility for protecting ourselves instead of relying on a hired stranger with a gun to protect us (a cop).

 

As makaio said, I feel sorry for those people who don't believe in self defense.. Just remember there aren't phones in the middle of the forest and not too many cops carry GPS receivers..

 

And there is no real reason for this to be a gun-specific issue... For those who feel "sorry" for us pistol-packin folk, what do you think about carrying knives and/or pepper spray (for people OR bears).. Isn't it a shame that one might need something for bear defense.. O woe is us... What a horrible world!

[Guest c.mathis]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bradrobb:

I still think that if it that unsafe to go for a walk in the woods that there is a problem with the world we live in.

---

 

The "problem" you speak of has always been here and always will be and it's not just "in the woods". Each of us deals with it in our own way.

[Guest jeremy]

May I suggest we wrap up this discussion? There are plenty of other locations to debate gun laws and whatnot. I for one don't really need to hear about how many geocachers are packing.

 

Jeremy

[Guest c.mathis]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jeremy:

May I suggest we wrap up this discussion? There are plenty of other locations to debate gun laws and whatnot. I for one don't really need to hear about how many geocachers are packing.

 

Jeremy

---

 

I agree. We've all made our points.

 

Two last comments:

 

1. We weren't discussing "gun laws", but rather do we feel the need to carry a weapon.

 

2. A firearm should not be treated any different than the other equipment we discuss here, such as a compass, insect repellant, or a pocket knife.

[Guest Mike_Teague]

quote:

---

Originally posted by c.mathis:

2. A firearm should not be treated any different than the other equipment we discuss here, such as a compass, insect repellant, or a pocket knife.

---

 

I agree there, and I'll take whatever reponsibility for taking the topic off into off-topic-land... My last message never even answered the original question posted by "bearboy", So, my answer to him is, carry if you are up to the task.. It's not a question related to geocaching, really.. I always figure if you carry, you carry.. If you don't, you don't.. Make your own decision. Educate and train yourself. If you are not comfortable carrying a concealed weapon and accepting the responsibilities of doing such, then dont.

 

One thing I wouldn't start doing is carrying in one place, but not in the other.. Ya know, Murphy's law, and all that... To do otherwise is like deciding when and where you're gonna wear a seatbelt while driving a car..

[Guest n1niq]

an be allowed). It is also illegal to carry weapons in many wildlife and nature preserves.

 

Coincidently, these are the areas where most caches are located.

 

My point is that while the theory of carrying or not carrying is a valid discussion my experience is that most places that have caches are off limits to guns. Carry if you want to (I have a CCW permit) but be careful not to break the law.

 

Chris

 

[This message has been edited by n1niq (edited 03 August 2001).]

[Guest jbwcpa]

I'm a former Marine and I personnaly love weapons! I also know way to many people who own guns that shouldn't. That really worries me to think that there might be one of them out looking for the same cache that I am.

 

A couple of suggestions:

1) For cacher's: don't put your cache where people seeking your cache may have their life endangered by other people. Like a dark South LA alley.

2) For cache seekers: If you think the cache you are seeking is in an unsafe area, find another cache. There's a difference between risky and suicidal.

3) For Americans in foreign countries: Make d___ sure you know the weapons laws of that country. Many countries take a very dim view of foreigners with weapons. You may be in much, much more trouble for carrying a gun than the guy who might try to rob you and put you in a hospital. You do NOT want to spend time in a foreign prison.

 

Have fun with your gun. Hunt, target shoot, blow things up (your own), just leave your gun at home when you're geocaching.

[Guest arffer]

Can we PLEASE lock down this thread?

[Guest prv8eye]

"So I will be carrying then for my safety.What do you think ? Should I carry or not?(When I am looking for caches in higher crime areas?"

 

This question always reminds me of my father's answer to me when I would debate whether to take a jacket.

If you take it and you don't need it, so what?

If you DON'T take it and you do need it, you're out of luck.

WHY would you give up ANY survival option? Why give yourself less?

Modern Police survival courses address the question of carrying a weapon off duty by telling officers that if they choose to carry off duty, do it ALL the time or not at all. Those extremely rare, if ever, times in life when you need a firearm is NOT the time to stop and wonder if you have one or where you put it.

I just don't understand the debate. Would you drive your car without a jack because you can usually get to a station okay?

Depending on in which part of the country you live, humans may not be your only reason for a firearm. Just this last week a Los Angeles area woman was attacked by a black bear.

 

Gus Morrow

Oceanside, CA

[Guest jeremy]

This has been talked to death.

 

Since we're not going to acquire a statistical number on how many folks are packing, there doesn't make much sense keeping this thread alive.

 

If you have a permit, observe the local laws. If you don't have a permit, be alert. Be alert at all times anyway. And don't use your cell phone while driving.

 

Oops! Off topic.

 

I'm closing the thread.

 

Jeremy

[Guest jeremy]

This has been talked to death.

 

Since we're not going to acquire a statistical number on how many folks are packing, there doesn't make much sense keeping this thread alive.

 

If you have a permit, observe the local laws. If you don't have a permit, be alert. Be alert at all times anyway. And don't use your cell phone while driving.

 

Oops! Off topic.

 

I'm closing the thread.

 

Jeremy