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Why don't people enter trailhead coordinates?


WalruZ
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I've cached my way up to 45 finds and am enjoying this... pasttime... quite a bit. Some are easy and some are hikes in local semi-wild areas. I love the hikes I've been on, but what spoils them sometimes is having to drive around trying to figure out how to get into the area - some of these places have multiple barely-marked entrances and it would be *really* *really* nice if the cache placer would enter a trailhead coordinate (sometimes they do) indicating the best place to park. Geocaching on foot is fun. Looking for a place to park isn't - do people consider that part of the challange?

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How about sending a note to the cache owner asking for parking coordinates? Sometimes it's just so obvious (to the placer and other locals) where to park, but not to some cachers. I don't think it's necessary to put parking coordinates for every cache. If you're in a race for FTF, use maps or buy an auto-routing unit (although those will take you on some nice tours around town getting you oh-so-close, but you can't park there).

 

Cheval

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Me and my friend joke that half the fun is just getting to the parking coords. We have driven down so many roads that we never would have if the parking coords where on the first page. We saw some pretty cool places, like one house built into a cliff that I would never had seen otherwise. On the other hand we ended up driving around for a couple hours looking for a parking place or a trailhead and it does get tiresome after a while. Maybe the trailhead or parking coords could be encrypted just like the clue, that way if you have trouble you can then decrypt them and get on with the hunt. Oh you can probabley guess I don't do alot of research before going out to cache.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Shibby:

they can simply ignore them and drive around wasting gas and parking illegally.


 

Wasting gas? If you're concerned about wasting gas, why cache at all? As for illegal parking, if someone can't figure THAT out, they really out to be in Driver's Ed rather than geocaching.

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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Snazz:

quote:
Originally posted by Team Shibby:

they can simply ignore them and drive around wasting gas and parking illegally.


 

Wasting gas? If you're concerned about wasting gas, why cache at all? As for illegal parking, if someone can't figure THAT out, they really out to be in Driver's Ed rather than geocaching.


 

LOL!! The reason they don't give the coordinates to the trail head is because they don't need to. There are those little options on the cache page which will provide MapQuest Maps, Topo maps or air photos.

 

I have provided guidance as to routes but leave it up to the finder to choose which way they want to get to on of my caches:

Lower Stagecoach

 

When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

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One cache we hunted (rount and round) was very difficult to find the trailhead, and that was part of the fun. We had located a trailhead and followed it for well over an hour and we never got any closer to the cache, we just went round and round it. After looking at the topo map again we found another route in which was the right one.

If the trailhead coords are given I will use them, but it is fun to find your own way too.

 

There is no spoon

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I am all for parking coords. Coincidentally, I posted the same opinion on the New England board this morning. Parking is often an issue of safety and avoiding private property. I know there are some instances where figuring out the best way in is part of the deal, but when you must park on the side of a busy paved road to find a poorly marked trail, I think safety comes first. And if you aren't going to post them up front, don't waste my time putting them in the hint! I never read the hint until I have gotten close to the cache.

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Geo, safety is on your shoulders not the cache placer. If you think the paking coords are unsafe drive to a place you consider safe and walk the rest of the way. I'm not saying you are wrong for your opinion, but the final decision is yours on where you park, so if you feel it unsafe move on till you do feel safe.

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I encrypt the parking coordinates in the cheater and label them as such (e.g [parking] 40.svir-frira.gjb74 74qbg28.frira43). That way those who want the coordinates have them.

 

The only time I'll put trailhead, or parking coordinates in the body of the cache page is if there are trespassing issues nearby and I want to make certain the cache hunters don't cross private property.

 

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

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I often use the maps on my PC to find routes and parking locations and enter them into my GPS as "trail heads" and parking lots before setting out on the hunt.

 

That got me in trouble once when I followed a road entrance waypoint I marked right up onto a private park (not indicate on the cache page) where the cache was located but where cars were not allowed. Apparently, the no trespassing signs and chain were down and I was oblivious to the situation until I enter the park proper. How embarrassing. When I got home I posted the "entry" road coordinates on the cache page so others would NOT make the same mistake I did. Then I got chewed out by the placer for risking the private park's openness to allow hiking (and caching?) by my action. There was a parking lot down the main road for people to use where they can enter the park on foot but that was below my original route point. Had he noted the parking area on the cache, I wouldn't have would up in the park with my car. In fairness to him, I wouldn't have made the error if the chain was up across the road and I would have been forced to find the parking area.

 

Alan

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Often when parking coordinates are provided, they aren't the best! Using nothing more than a street map, I've frequently found better or more convenient parking.

 

When the place is impossible to find, and surrounded by private property, as the latest I did, they are greatly appreciated however.

 

Unless there's a need, please don't make it ridiculously easy and defeat exploration.

 

Enjoy,

 

Randy

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When I cache i tend not to map it out, when I get close to the coords I just find a parking spot i think is ok. If it is illegal to park near the trail head I think the owner should state this. If however it is not illegal just a bit dangerous I think it is the cachers choice weather to park there or look for a better spot. I don't need maps I have coords!!! lol I love that tag line

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icon_cool.gif Some cachers will give coords for trailheads that are not the closest or easiest trail to the cache. Then you have cachers that will park as close as they can and go for the cache regardless of private property or anything else. then you might have a cache like GC9352 that shouldn't take more then 10 minutes IF you know where to enter, there are only 2 entry points. If you look at USA photomaps or some other program like it you would see where the entry points are and it would be no problem, just remember RECON. If you don't recon then you have no complaint. Thats my opinion, but you know what they say about opinions icon_biggrin.gif

 

All who look are not lost

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quote:
Originally posted by Bender:

Why don't people paint a white line right up to the cache?

 

Bender

 

Searching, for the lost Xanadu


 

 

I agree with Bender on this one. It's part of the fun to hunt for the trailhead. Personaly, I don't see how many I can do in a day, but make the best out of the ones I find. If I have cords for parking, coords for the trailhead, coords to the cache. Isn't it painting a white line to the cache?

 

"WITHOUT GEOGRAPHY YOU'RE NOWHERE....Jimmy Buffett

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I'm not sure I made myself all that clear. First off, I'm not talking about "drive-up" caches or city park caches where coordinates would spoil things. I'm talking about regional open space whose access points are surrounded by private developed property and not shown on maps - perhaps not even clearly on park maps. If I just "parked close" I would have to climb someone's back-yard fence (and the park fence) and then bushwack to a trail. (see "Goofus & Gallant go Geocaching")

 

There's one near me that I've visited many times in the last month and many of the caches are best accessed from secondary trailheads whose coordinates I've gotten from one or two specific (and IMO thoughtful) cache pages. In one case the trailhead was a barely marked gate between two houses. In the other, the gate is unmarked and at the end of a dead-end suburban street.

 

Maybe if you live out in the woods to start with you can drive all around and through some state forest and yes, park anywhere you like. Good for you. Where I'm at, finding that there's an unmarked (and *unmapped*) park gate at the end of some dinky little side street is an act of kindness, not a spoiler. If I'm going out on a 4 hour hike I don't want to drive around looking for parking too. I live in California and do enough of that as it is.

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I can understamd how some folks would not want coord, but quite frankly I don't live in the sticks. I live in a urban area where 99% of park land is surrounded by developed private homes or properties. If someone posts the coords to the trailhead, how is that painting a white line to the cache? I go and enjoy the hike no matter which way I enter the woods.

 

I also cache with a routing GPS, so chances are I am not going to enter the park the way the cacher intended, so in my defense I would like to see the route the cache hider intended me to take. I don't mind bushwacking, but if there is a trail that was made for us, why not use it?

 

I also feel I should mention I am not looking for parking coords for small local parks and playgrounds, but more or less state land and forest areas that have only a few legal entrances/parking areas.

 

Kar

 

[This message was edited by Team Shibby on September 23, 2003 at 01:50 PM.]

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that is what makes this great sport of ours fun.you get to see areas that you would not have seen otherwise.unless there is a private property issue i would not use them or if the cache was set up that way for a reason-my brother-inlaw set up a multi cache in the uk.they gave specific parking to one part of it so you would have to walk through a very scenic town on the way.

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I, too appretiate a heads up to a parking area if it is REALLY hard to find or if the cache placer knows that parking elsewhere is dangerous or will get you a ticket.

 

Once I was SURE I knew where a cache was, parked and got to within 500 feet of it. The problem was it was on the opposite side of the Erie Canal! Parking coordinates would have alleviated having to find a way to get across it that but would have also diminished the learning experience involved with the search. Sometimes its part of the game.

 

"Now may every living thing, young or old, weak or strong, living near or far, known or unknown, living or departed or yet unborn, may every living thing know happiness!"

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Guys/gals...

 

I went to a park in an area of the country (farm/non-urban) on back roads and such this past weekend and had a ball...

 

I used Delorme's Streets software, placed the 2 waypoints (start and cache) and it created the route for me based on the roads. Wow, I would have gotten so lost trying to get there I would have given up, had I not routed the driving first. Once there, a trail map showed me where to go, and with a little bit of plotting from my military days, I found the best route around the trail to the cache. I was able to get fairly close with the pencil dot on the trail map...

 

You dont need trailheads. You can even use mapquest to do the street routing, as it will take lat/long start/end points.

 

---

Brad Buskey

http://www.deckyon.com

N38:17.281, W85:32.998

deckyon@NOSPAM.sturm.org

Magellan Meridian Platinum

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Looking for a place to start the search sucks. I didn't get into this activity to navigate roads, I got into it to hike and seek little containers hidden wherever.

 

If you have to leave the parking coords out of your cache page to make it more challenging, you didn't do a very good job hiding your cache.

 

*zips up flame-retardant jumpsuit*

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quote:
posted September 23, 2003 04:05 PM

I can understamd how some folks would not want coord, but quite frankly I don't live in the sticks. I live in a urban area where 99% of park land is surrounded by developed private homes or properties. If someone posts the coords to the trailhead, how is that painting a white line to the cache?


 

True, around here you can find yourself a few hundred feet from the cache and still have a 4 mile drive ahead as you find your way to the park entrance. This very thing happened to me this week. I saw a nearby cache on my GPS and drove towards it. I got to within 200 feet, but there was a tall fence between me and the cache. After looking at the map, I found out that the park entrance was on the other end of the town. The rest of it was surrounded by private homes.

 

Since I was a bit pressed for time, I abandoned the search. This is why I like my idea of encrypting the parking, park entrance or trailhead in the hint (and marking it as such). If I want it its there and if don't I don't, nobody's making me decrypt it.

 

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

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I agree it's part of the fun getting there.

Just yesterday my wife and I were out and were near a cache that was rated 1.5/2. We parked and were only .2/mile from it so we decided to grab it quickly since we were at A trailhead.

 

Well, this way turned outto be .2/mile down a terrain that warranted a 3.5/4. Took us a long while to get to the cache and found the easy, W I D E trail right near it. Had we been at home we would have mapped it first, but the experience and fun of going the wrong way made the cache memorable.

 

I by no means see posted coords as cheating and there are times when coords would be helpful (for the quickies), but overall I like it without them (unless there are special circumstances that mitigate thier use).

 

How's that for taking a hard stand? icon_rolleyes.gif

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I think parking/trailhead coords are good in some cases, not so much in others. Just thought I'd throw in a different example of a time I was happy to have parking coords. There's a local cache that's in an area with plenty of available parking, but it's all pay parking for several blocks. The cache hider was nice enough to mention the coords of one little spot that had free parking. Never would have found it otherwise; probably wouldn't have even looked, and just paid for parking.

 

Not a really big deal, but it was a nice gesture, and didn't affect the cache hunt itself.

 

SylvrStorm

 

*** Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry, and they laugh at you. ***

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Part of the fun/challenge for me is locating the parking or the trailhead without coordinates. If the location of legal parking is so obscure that you have to spend an hour looking for it, then parking coordinates should be included.

 

Sometimes I’ll include parking coordinates just because I want the geocacher take a certain route to the cache, or to prevent parking in an illegal area. If I provide parking coordinates, I usually put them in the cache description.

 

********************************************

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

 

logo_small.jpg

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I used to live on Long Island and I had to abandon 2 particular caches because I spent about 15 minutes trying to find the unmarked trialhead and by the time I found it I think the neighbors called the police. They came driving down the road like they were looking for something. It is illegal to park on the side of the street in most of the more affluent LI communities. If I had trailhead coordinates I could have driven right up got out and found the cache. Instead I drew a lot of attention to myself and had to get the heck out of there. To the placer's credit they did mention that parking on the street was illegal but did not offer any good alternatives.

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

Another advantage of having the parking coordinates on the cache page I take with me is then I know how to get back to my car since I usually forget to waypoint it.

 

icon_confused.gif

 

Alan


 

what you mean you can waypoint your car??? all that time i spent looking for the "F-150 mystery bonus cache" and to think i could have had the coords all along.

 

Now where did I set my GPS??? planetrobert.net

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ACtually, it's good to mark your own trailhead when entering the woods. It makes it easier to get back after you found the cache. Often, the parking area might be a couple of hundred feet or more from the trailhead. Aiming for the parking area rather than the trailhead might cause a lot of bushwacking that wasn't necessary.

 

Alan

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It's part of the game. It's the hunt. Someone said that if it's hard to find parking they should post the coords. Well, what should we do if it's hard to find the cache itself? Do your homework, look at some maps. So you you had to give up on a few hunts.. welcome to geocaching.

 

george

 

"No one goes to The Valley of the Dead. That's why it's called The Valley of the Dead."

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If every cache told me where to park and what trail to take I would stop geocaching. Well maybe not. The caches that do tell me where to park I still look to see if I can get closer. Sometimes the hider doesn't know the best place themselves like the last cache I found. I knew the hider and as I was starting to bushwack through 90 yards of overgrowth I thought he would never do that. So I looked further down the trail and found a much easier way in. After talking to him later I found out he did bushwack in and he was suprised to find I found such an easy way in!

 

Use a map and plan your trip, it's all part of the fun.

 

FarSideX

 

Took tupperware container - Left nothing.

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