SunCat Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Hi, I've been reading posts from people finding caches and noticed a lot mention too many people being around or someone seeing them place the cache (in a worried way). What is the policy of caching when non-geocachers can see you find and then replace the cache? Have caches been taken/stolen/thrown away, etc. by non-geocachers? Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 quote: Have caches been taken/stolen/thrown away, etc. by non-geocachers? Yes. If you're discovered by non geocachers, use your judgement. If it's a dad and kids, it might be OK to let them in on the fun. If it's teens, or someone who gives you the ceeps, it might be best to take the cache with you and replace it later that day. If you have any doubt at all, do the latter. "It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln Quote Link to comment
+Dread Pirate Roberts' Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 I won't retrieve a cache if there are questionable folks around. It's not worth either having to come back later to replace the cache or having the cache looted. We might hang around awhile and hope they leave but usually we just scoot on over to the next cache on our list Quote Link to comment
+BullCrab Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Most of the time, we just wait around and pretend we are doing something else, like, talking on our "cell" or writing in our journal so they think we're just normal folks and then dive in when they don't care anymore. When there are kids around, we definitely wait. Once, there was this kid hiking where we were caching. We got him to take pics of us and the awesome view, then actually let him in on it and he seemed genuinely interested. Overall, just use your judgement...wait, if you can to go for the cache. (I know how anxious us adults can be, sometimes as bad as kids). :-) Cool deal. ~~Cache Money Bling Bling~~ Quote Link to comment
+lostinjersey Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Take It With You If I didn't and later found out it had been plundered, I'd feel very guilty. I had such an experience with being observed last summer. Cache is hidden in a park that I later found out was known (well known it seems) for gay cruising. I got near the cache & looked in the expected spot but no luck. I saw a guy hanging about so I moved away. (at this point I did not know the stories about the park) I hiked away, came back and found I just had n't looked deep enough in the hiding spot and signed tghe log. Suddenly I saw the guy again. I immediately turned around, sat on the edge of the dock & placed the cache out of his view. After nearly 10 minutes he finally went away & I rehid the cache. If he had hung out any longer I would've taken the cache with me. I knew something was off about that place, especially with his hanging about, but I didn't know the truth till I got home. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 GWHO, it must have been that get-up you were wearing "It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln Quote Link to comment
+Mad_Hatter Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 quote:GWHO, it must have been that get-up you were wearing I don't know about that. If I saw a guy with a sword on his back I might be inclined to put off that particular cache hunt for awhile. On the other hand, it might be a good conversation starter. Quote Link to comment
dave and jaime Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Dread Pirate Roberts':I won't retrieve a cache if there are questionable folks around. It's not worth either having to come back later to replace the cache or having the cache looted. We might hang around awhile and hope they leave but usually we just scoot on over to the next cache on our list so then, not to bring up the found/not found debate again, but what would you have logged here? as the log says i could see the cache on my first attempt, but wouldnt retrieve it because of the pedestrian traffic. i then went to another cache nearby and stopped by on the way back to see if 'the coast was clear', and fortunately it was and another cacher was on the site with the cache retrieved. so my question is, had i not made the second attempt and got to the cache what should i have logged (ie. found, not found or note)? 'Get to the point---speak English!!!!' Quote Link to comment
+Hoomdorm Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I think that if you aren't able to open the cache & sign the log book then you don't have a find. If you never actually open the cache when you find it then maybe it'd be a find to you. Just seems kinda simple to me that if you sign the physical log book then you can claim a find. -------------------------------- Magellan Meridian GPS / 128MB Handspring Visor Deluxe L.O.S.T. - http://www.kjjeep.com http://www.darkglobe.com/geocache Quote Link to comment
+Kite and Hawkeye Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by dave and jaime: quote:Originally posted by Dread Pirate Roberts':I won't retrieve a cache if there are questionable folks around. It's not worth either having to come back later to replace the cache or having the cache looted. We might hang around awhile and hope they leave but usually we just scoot on over to the next cache on our list so then, not to bring up the found/not found debate again, but what would you have logged http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=45925 as the log says i could see the cache on my first attempt, but wouldnt retrieve it because of the pedestrian traffic I would log a note. To me, a not-found means that you searched at the zero point and didn't find anything. Obviously, that's not the case. OTOH, a find, to me, means you laid hands on the cache and, in all but the most unusual cases, signed the logbook. Otherwise, if there's a cache in the top of a tree, or underwater, or suspended on a rope fifty feet overhead, and you can't/don't puzzle out how to retrieve it, does that mean you get to log it as a find anyway? I don't think so. Retrieving a cache unseen takes some skill, and if the cache is hidden in a public place, I think that's part of the challenge of the 'find.' I don't, though, want to encourage people to make un-safe retrievals just because they're upset at the notion of not logging a find. I'd rather give someone a freebie than have the cache plundered due to carelessness. Logging a find in that way, though, would bug me until I managed to return and actually get the cache. The only potential exception I can think of offhand is if you retrieve a PVC pipe and can't get the dadgum thing open, and it's not called the He-Man cache. In that case, I'd discuss the matter with the cache owner and see if s/he thought logging a find was legit. Not to go on ANOTHER tangent, but man, I hate PVC caches. Quote Link to comment
dave and jaime Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Kite & Hawkeye:... I would log a note. To me, a not-found means that you searched at the zero point and didn't find anything. Obviously, that's not the case. OTOH, a ...matter with the cache owner and see if s/he thought logging a find was legit. Not to go on ANOTHER tangent, but man, I hate PVC caches. the particular cache i questioned about is located under the boardwalk of the most popular walking trail in the city. before i left i was standing ontop of it looking at it but i wouldnt jump the rail because there were about 20-30 persons within 100' just enjoying the weather, now im sure tha nearly all of them wouldnt have caused any harm but i didnt want to endanger the owners cache that took some work to setup. my thought, and it may not be popular, is that i could log it as a find even though i didnt actually touch the cache, but due to ciccumstances beyond my control it was best if i left the cache undisturbed. problem with this ideology is how do you monitor/verify it, i guess we are back to the honor system... i can understand that i didnt actually log the cache but would the owner have felt better if i left it as was?? this situation makes for valid arguements either way... 'Get to the point---speak English!!!!' Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 quote:he particular cache i questioned about is located under the boardwalk of the most popular walking trail in the city. before i left i was standing ontop of it looking at it but i wouldnt jump the rail because there were about 20-30 persons within 100' just enjoying the weather, now im sure tha nearly all of them wouldnt have caused any harm but i didnt want to endanger the owners cache that took some work to setup. my thought, and it may not be popular, is that i could log it as a find even though i didnt actually touch the cache, but due to ciccumstances beyond my control it was best if i left the cache undisturbed. problem with this ideology is how do you monitor/verify it, i guess we are back to the honor system.. I wouldn't log this one as a find. Many owners purposefully put their caches in high traffic area and being stealthy enough to find it without being seen is part of the challenge. "It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln Quote Link to comment
+SeaTrout Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 cache page I put a note on my cache pages to let geocachers know what I would like them to do,if they are 'caught' with the cache. Seatrout Quote Link to comment
+TEAM 360 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 It comes down to the cache owner at least having the foresight to hide it in a place that offers some level of reduced visibility for the cacher to retrieve it. Quote Link to comment
+SeaTrout Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Having a cache plundered would not be fun.The cache container and its contents are replaceable,but I think that the cache location may be a bigger loss.If there were any travel bugs inside that may be the biggest loss of all.A lot of people go out of their way to help move bugs. Seatrout Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by TEAM 360:It comes down to the cache owner at least having the foresight to hide it in a place that offers some level of reduced visibility for the cacher to retrieve it. Some caches are placed such that part of the difficulty is finding the cache without being busted by a muggle. It's a valid cache and some are intensional. While it might be ideal to have it one step left of prying eyes, the cache owner is under no obligation. ===================== Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
+Team GPSaxophone Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 I skipped a cache today because of too many Muggles around. I even posted a Not Found! Quote Link to comment
+Dave_W6DPS Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:I skipped a cache today because of too many Muggles around. I even posted a Not Found! http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ihazeltine/bandbass.gif I usually post a note about why I couldn't finisht he search, and only post a DNF if I really looked and didn't find it. The difference is the cache owner get info about the cache from the logs. If it is a DNF I would wonder if the cache is missing, if there were a number of notes about muggle traffic I might try to relocate outof sight.... Dave_W6DPS My two cents worth, refunds available on request. (US funds only) Quote Link to comment
+Team GPSaxophone Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Dave_W6DPS: quote:Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:I skipped a cache today because of too many Muggles around. I even posted a Not Found! I usually post a note about why I couldn't finisht he search, and only post a DNF if I really looked and didn't find it. The difference is the cache owner get info about the cache from the logs. If it is a DNF I would wonder if the cache is missing, if there were a number of notes about muggle traffic I might try to relocate outof sight.... Muggles are part of the challenge on this cache. If I stayed in the truck, I would have posted a note. Quote Link to comment
Big Scary Guy Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Muggles is a pretty good term for Non-Geocacher's. I've taken to calling them NOG's (NOn-Geocacher's) myself. Quote Link to comment
+Sissy-n-CR Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 To answer your query directly, if you can't not draw the attention of a muggle, then don't go after the cache. This is actually more rare than one might think, especially if you cache with a good partner. Some pointers: You're most likely a tourist, act like one. Look around at the sights, but what you're actually looking for are people looking at you. Don't let'em see your eyes. Sunglasses are helpful. Scout from a distance see if you can see the tattletale signs of a cache pile or other likely hiding spots. Always watch for people looking at you out the corner of your eye. If you're being observed while hunting and you find the cache--keep "looking." "Give up" in a few minutes. You're most likely in a park so take a stroll. Come back later when the coast is clear. If you are quick and stealthy enough when you come back through the area, you can actually pick up a small cache without even stopping. Watch out for large movements, like stooping, that might draw attention. Stop and tie your shoe. Trashin out is a good cover for your movements, as well. "Oh, hey, look at this piece of trash!" Of course, it's hard to put trash back. Ladies can carry a beachbag-type tote that is large enough for a cache. It's easy to scoop up a cache and put it in the bag. This is helpful for tranporting cache into and out of an area, as well. Be aware of human nature. People don't like to be watched or caught looking at you. Use this to your advantage. Also, slightly invading personal space can get people to move. Heck, if it's ladies and you're a guy, simply pointedly watch them. They're likely to get creeped out and leave. If you're a couple, start making out! What more fun way to get people to move along? We haven't done it, but we certainly got "moved along" once because of it! If you do find yourself looking around a lot, look at your watch, as well. You really hate being stood up! Just a few ideas to blend in. If people are not looking at you, they're less likely to see you pull something out of bushes. Above all, if you can't watch all the people around you and make sure they are not watching you the moment you go after the cache, then simply don't do it. Hope this helps! CR Quote Link to comment
+CrimsonWrath Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:To answer your query directly, if you can't _not_ draw the attention of a muggle, then don't go after the cache. This is actually more rare than one might think, especially if you cache with a good partner. ... Ah, thank you! I'm just getting into this myself and started looking in places where there were more muggles around. Thanks for your advice! Quote Link to comment
mortonfox Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Bring a camera. Then people ignore you because they think oh, that's just a photographer taking artsy pictures of the fallen tree and/or rockpile. Quote Link to comment
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