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The Extinction of Code Word Micros


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After 75 miles of driving to find two clever plants for micros I was fortunately notified that these are NOT (W/O Physical Log Book)allowed anymore. We are known for wellstocked stuffed theme traditional caches but wanted to place a couple of well placed micros with codewords. Glad I didn't embarrass myself by trying to get them approved!! icon_mad.gif I thought the whole idea behind geocaching was to create new forms of the game but is sounds like now it is going in the reverse. icon_frown.gif What gives why are these so frowned upon if they do not have a physical log book. I think the physical log book deters from the online posting sometimes (Age old human nature --why do I have to do something TWICE!). Oh well I love the sport, love the sight, love the cachers I meet so I will climb down now but to simply not protest the decision would be to not state my opinion. You are contracting the sport not expanding it with a decision like this.

 

Wags, Russ & Erin

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I think the trouble is people take advantage of creating new forms of the game or do it without thinking, and ruin it for people that want to do something outside the box. Unfortunatly with the growth of the sport, I don't see how the guidelines can be loosened without somebody causing problems. This being said, the people that wish to place caches will have to learn to live with rules put in place for the 5% crowd.

 

smiles_63.gif ---Real men cache in shorts.

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I think I know what you mean but could you elaborate please. icon_smile.gif

 

quote:
Originally posted by Nurse Dave & LKay:

I think the trouble is people take advantage of creating new forms of the game or do it without thinking, and ruin it for people that want to do something outside the box. Unfortunatly with the growth of the sport, I don't see how the guidelines can be loosened without somebody causing problems. This being said, the people that wish to place caches will have to learn to live with rules put in place for the 5% crowd.

 

http://www.sprecher.us/smiles_63.gif ---Real men cache in shorts.


 

Wags, Russ & Erin

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If I recall correctly, and I may be wrong, I believe code word micros were stopped when someone could not find a micro, got ticked off, and blamed it on there not being a log book inside. I believe they said they would feel better about not finding it if only there was a log book inside. I'm pretty sure that's when it all started.

 

I've seen a lot of changes around here because of a squeeky wheel getting the grease. Unfortunately things get changed to accomodate the one person who can't keep up with the game, without any polls or consideration for others who may feel otherwise.

 

Of course, like I said above, I might be wrong.

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From Mrs. Last Lap:

We were so excited when our friend, Pete, came for a visit with these adorable, cute, little mini Altoid tins. They literally look like Barbie Paint trays! I slapped a magnet on the back, and put in a kick butt code word. Couldn't wait to set them up in some incredibly scenic points that a Traditional cache wouldn't be appropriate in. Plus, a virtual just didn't have enough class. So, we knew we couldn't put in a log book because these tins are not much bigger than a 50Cent piece. So, who cares? We put a KEYWORD in so that finders would have to EMAIL US THEIR LOG!!! What's the difference? I mean, I like the New Virtual Rule, but this MACRO Micro RULE just plain sucks! I understand the Grandfather clause, and only wish we had not spent the hundreds of dollars on the MANY Traditional Caches we've placed hither and yon. Could have saved a bundle, if we had just done KEYWORD micros BEFORE this NEW rule.

 

Well, we'll get over it... we love this sport to much , but I must say that this is the first, and hopefully ONLY, gripe that we've has so far. I know the LAST LAP GANG is only just one other Cachin' pair amongst thousands of others, but I hope that our gripe is heard. I just don't understand what's wrong with KEYWORD MICROS! A log is a log, online or off.

 

Wags, Russ & Erin

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From Mrs. Last Lap:

quote:
someone could not find a micro, got ticked off, and blamed it on there not being a log book inside. I believe they said they would feel better about not finding it if only there was a log book inside.

 

How Cockamamy can you get?

 

Plain and simple. A micro is a very small container. If you can't fit in a log book, you need to find some way of verifying a find... a keyword solves that problem.

 

I really want this rule to be reconsidered. Who should I contact?

 

Wags, Russ & Erin

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quote:
Originally posted by Last Lap Gang:

 

So, we knew we couldn't put in a log book because these tins are not much bigger than a 50Cent piece.


 

Many of us have found dozens of caches smaller than that that contain logbooks. You're right that you can't buy a logbook off the shelves for such caches, but with a little creativity and elbow grease you are good to go. Check out some of these examples:

 

http://home.attbi.com/~wander-lost/micro.jpg

http://home.attbi.com/~wander-lost/ck1.jpg

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/23324_2800.jpg

http://img.Groundspeak.com/cache/42334_400.jpg (that's a pencil lead container)

 

icon_geocachingwa.gif

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What the heck does the cache contents have to due with finding anything?

 

So let me see if I understand this right.

 

Some bonehead could not find a micro due to not having a logbook in the container?

 

And then whined like a little baby about it so now code word micros are out?

 

So now, If I do not find a cache, I can make up a crybaby excuse and get those type of caches container's banned?

 

What a rip. I guess I will start asking to have caches archived due to not having a $20 bill in it and therefore I could not find it.

 

Whats the difference?

 

End of micro rant for now.

 

logscaler.

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quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

 

If I recall correctly, and I may be wrong, I believe code word micros were stopped when someone _could not find_ a micro, got ticked off, and blamed it on there not being a log book inside.


 

I've never heard that story. If I recall correctly, the problem was that more and more questionable caches were being submitted that were borderline trash and required users to verify contents to get a find. One example was a clear, sealed plastic tube containing chocolate sprinkles ("email how many chocolate sprinkles are in the tube to get credit"); another was a tennis ball that was sliced open with a random piece of garbage stuffed inside, then tossed into the woods ("email me what the piece of garbage is to get credit").

 

Requiring logbooks was a step taken to try to get people to put a little more thought and effort into their hides. There are differing opinions as to whether or not it was a good step to take.

 

icon_geocachingwa.gif

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Then HAVE Legal CONATINERS POSTED WHICH WILL ALLOW FOR CODE WORDS WHICH ARE SAFER THAN THE SILLY PAPER LOGS WHICH ARE MORE JUST FOR FUN! YOU have pages and pages of great information and clear rules. Don't KILL these types of caches EVOLVE THE RULES for THEM! Come on you are missing the point. The point is not the container but about verification!!

 

Wags, Russ & Erin

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You could always make it a 2 part cache! They have to send the codeword and sign a log icon_wink.gif

 

I know the containers you speak of and I think it would be cool to come up with some form of log for it. Rather than have a bunch of digital signatures, would'nt it be better to have a logbook for your archives?

 

quote:
Moun10Bike said:

One example was a clear, sealed plastic tube containing chocolate sprinkles ("email how many chocolate sprinkles are in the tube to get credit"); another was a tennis ball that was sliced open with a random piece of garbage stuffed inside, then tossed into the woods ("email me what the piece of garbage is to get credit").


 

LOL, I can only imagine some of the garbage that gets submitted for approval!!

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quote:
Originally posted by Moun10Bike:

 

another was a tennis ball that was sliced open with a random piece of garbage stuffed inside, then tossed into the woods ("email me what the piece of garbage is to get credit").

 

Requiring logbooks was a step taken to try to get people to put a little more thought and effort into their hides. There are differing opinions as to whether or not it was a good step to take.

 


 

That's what I mean by making rules for the 5%. 95% of the people wouldn't do something stupid like that. But, because 5% of the people would we all have to live by rules to restrict the dumb things those 5% do. And it isn't fair to give exceptions because you don't know who the 5% are before it's too late.

 

smiles_63.gif ---Real men cache in shorts.

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We have a micro planned that we have to change because of the new rules. So we are making the inital extremely well hidden and disguised micro have coordinates for the easy last stage of a multicache. Sure people can still cheat if they want to, but since I will always give hints, they are only hurting themselves by missing out on the fun. At least I still get the fun of placing it.

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That is an excellent point but are people that darn stupid to fake a find? How stupid. If they are that adamant to fake a find who cares. They have to live with themselves. It is a great point though but unless I check these logs every single week and I am not what is the point. We all, especially including myself, are taking this way too seriously I guess. icon_rolleyes.gif

quote:
Originally posted by TEAM 360:

Once one cacher gets the codeword, what's to stop them from passing it along to someone who could fake a find on the cache? A logbook is DEFINITIVE proof that it was actually found.


 

Wags, Russ & Erin

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The rules were tightened for a reason. They tried being more open to new ideas and it didn't work. You have to consider what this sport looks like to an outsider. An "anything goes" attitude will get you just that "anything" and that is NOT what we want.

 

Ideally, if a way can be established that all caches put out are "quality" caches then it shouldn't be much of a problem. However, defining "quality" and the extra workload on approvers are major problems. Search back on a my posts and you will see that I've tried, and failed, to get a consensus on "quality." Understandably, the definition is a moving target and means different things to different people. It also limits the creativity of hiders.

 

Therefor, without a definition of quality, without a way to ensure quality logless caches, without a way to not increase the workload on approvers, a policy was established to not allow logless caches.

 

My personal opinion--my opinion only--is a cache must have a log. It simply can't be a traditional cache without a log. Emailing the cache owner with verification is more like a virtual. The only difference between a virt and a logless is the fact you put the verification information in place--it wasn't already there for you to use.

 

Now, if you want to petition for a new type of cache that will allow logless mircos--maybe even call it virtual-hybrid--that's fine. Establish some guidelines that TPTB can live with--i.e. ways to ensure the cache is not, or can perceived by the general population, trash--and go from there. (Y'all, don't even start on what people perceive as trash--I know all about the eco-Nazis. Some will consider a gold-plated ammo box trash as it didn't grow there.)

 

CR

 

72057_2000.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Last Lap Gang:

That is an excellent point but are people that darn stupid to fake a find? How stupid. If they are that adamant to fake a find who cares. They have to live with themselves. It is a great point though but unless I check these logs every single week and I am not what is the point. We all, especially including myself, are taking this way too seriously I guess. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Wags, Russ & Erin


Taken from the Geocaching.com FAQ

A cache can come in many forms but the first item should always be the logbook. In its simplest form a cache can be just a logbook and nothing else. The logbook contains information from the founder of the cache and notes from the cache's visitors. The logbook can contain much valuable, rewarding, and entertaining information. A logbook might contain information about nearby attractions, coordinates to other unpublished caches, and even jokes written by visitors. If you get some information from a logbook you should give some back. At the very least you can leave the date and time you visited the cache.

------------------------------------------------

I remember that being in the FAQ when I started caching, they just recently started enforcing it. Another reason I feel a logbook should be required is for when a non-geocacher stumbles upon a cache. If there's just a word in a container, it can appear to be trash. A logbook with even a small description and the URL can introduce someone new to the game.

 

Oh, and ask some of the New Jersey cachers, yes there are people out there who will fake finds, they just had someone faking I think over 100 finds.

 

Nothing to see here, move along.

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Put a log book in the container. I've heard time and time again how there is NO WAY they cold fit a log in thier super small container so they only way to do it is with a code word.

 

I've heard this about:

film cannisters

alotids tins (big and small)

lysterine strip holders (and other brands)

small hide a key rocks

 

And you know what? I've signed logs multiple containers of each type. Quit being so lazy and make a log for the container.

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

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quote:
Originally posted by SE7EN:

I always figured "Code Word Micros" were so lazy people could play the game.

 

Too lazy to miniturize your cache into your choosen container? Simply put a code word in it! Nice, simple, lazy way to put out a cache.


 

I dunno. Maybe it's just me but I've ENJOYED doing the coded micro-caches in my area. In fact, I was losing interest in Geocaching (don't worry -- I got better). Everything seemed the same ol'-same ol' locally.

 

Then SpyderUser started putting out all these cigar tube micro caches. About a dozen in all I think. Each tube has an item in it. Maybe a screw. Three nickels. whatever. You have to email him the contents to get credit.

 

Now I love traditional caches as much as the next guy. But those darn tubes gave me a lot of headaches. This guy was a very clever hider. I've cursed his name many times and swore his caches weren't where there only to return and discover I had merely missed them. Very challenging and some of the most memorable hunts I"ve ever found.

 

Now I wouldn't exacxtly call this guy 'lazy'. His caches are all about the hunt itself and are usually located in interesting areas.

 

Sure he could have squeezed a log in the cigar tubes and accomplished the same thing. I just don't see what the big deal is. A log. No log. Makes no diff to me. If someone else wants to cheat and share the code with others so they can pad their find count. Big whoop! They sat on their fat butts and cheated. ON the other hand I went out and had the fun and experience of finding the cache.

 

Anyway, I don't mind the rule of all caches having logs. But I do like coded caches and wish they were an option.

 

Jolly R. Blackburn

http://kenzerco.com

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quote:
Oh, and ask some of the New Jersey cachers, yes there are people out there who will fake finds, they just had someone faking I think over 100 finds.

 

I've never understood why somone would want to 'cheat' like this. Where's the pay off? Bragging Rights? "Ha!! I have more than you!!!"

 

Pa-leeze. Like who cares? They've obviously missed the entire point of this sport. It's like cheating at Solitaire. What's the point?

 

Jolly R. Blackburn

http://kenzerco.com

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Is there a rule against making virtuals with an added bonus micro code cache?

 

A cache in my areais a virtual, but in the description he says "to receive your certificate of accomplishment, you have to answer this question. Who said " Every man's life belongs to his country, and no man has the right to refuse when his country calls for it". The answer is in all caps and there is a (dot) after the middle initial."

 

Of course I logged the visit without actually answering the question (although I know the answer, I just chose not to e-mail him). I'd say if you want to continue to make code micros, do it. Just submit it as a virtual and make the code optional for those of us who love turning over rocks and spending hours tromping around in 60ft circles icon_biggrin.gif

 

/Benjamin

Carbondale, IL

Caching Newbie

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I'd say Jolly summed it up. And sorry, I'm not going to take the time to try to read the micro writing in your clever mini log, nor am I going to try and leave more than my name on it.

 

Buddhist monks write on grains of rice. Anybody put one out as a micro yet?

 

Two roads diverged in the woods and I,

I took the one less traveled,

and that is how I found the cache.

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quote:
Originally posted by Rabbit 282:

Is there a rule against making virtuals with an added bonus micro code cache?


 

Yes, there are several rules I can think of against it, actually.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Rabbit 282:

I'd say if you want to continue to make code micros, do it. Just submit it as a virtual and make the code optional for those of us who love turning over rocks and spending hours tromping around in 60ft circles icon_biggrin.gif

 

/Benjamin

Carbondale, IL

Caching Newbie


Since you're an admitted caching newbie, and you haven't hidden a cache yet, I doubt you have read the "Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines" yet. Please take a look at the section on virtual caches before following your own advice. What you just suggested breaks just about every guideline listed.

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

 

So, http://www.geocities.com/friared1/ultramic.html?

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ihazeltine/bandbass.gif


 

if it's big enough to put a code word in it, it's big enough to put a log for at least one name. The owner will just have to change the log sheet more often.

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

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If we're going to requier a log book in a cache then we should set a minumun size for the log book. So you can't put a postage stamp size piece of paper in and expect 20 people to sign it or a 1/4 inch wide strip of adding machine tape. I can generate print that small with the computer but not with a dull pencil in the woods.

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quote:
If we're going to requier a log book in a cache then we should set a minumun size for the log book. So you can't put a postage stamp size piece of paper in and expect 20 people to sign it or a 1/4 inch wide strip of adding machine tape. I can generate print that small with the computer but not with a dull pencil in the woods.

 

If it's in the middle of the woods, why does it need to be a micro? An ammo can should work quite nicely. Then font size doesn't matter.

 

I'm also firmly in the pro-logbook camp. If it doesn't have a logbook, it's a virtual.

 

Frankly, I'm getting a little tired of the "micro in the woods" phenomenon. Save the micros for urban settings.

 

Now where did I park my car??????? monkes.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Wandering Palms:

I can generate print that small with the computer but not with a dull pencil in the woods.


 

Like runaround said, who's putting micros in the woods that are so small you can't fit a log book or a sheet of paper where you can legibily write your name?

 

Leave the pencil at home and bring a nice pen.

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

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I love micro caches (for the most part). There's one nearby called Crismon Tide that is a listerine pocket pack container, attached to a piece of playground equipment in the middle of a VERY used playground/park. It's been there for quite awhile, and will probably remain for sometime. Yes, it does have a logbook.

 

[edit]I visited this cache 3 times, spending nearly an hour each of the first two times with no success. Show up another time with my family and find it. Go figure.

[/edit]

 

Brian

Team A.I.

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quote:
Originally posted by Brian - Team A.I.:

I love micro caches (for the most part). There's one nearby called Crismon Tide that is a listerine pocket pack container, attached to a piece of playground equipment in the middle of a VERY used playground/park. It's been there for quite awhile, and will probably remain for sometime. Yes, it does have a logbook.


Excellent!

Micros are my favorite too. I really enjoy the hunt. I enjoy the log books in them. They are easier to see who has been there.

I haven't found a password cache yet. If I do I will not log it. I will not beg for the permission to log a find! If I found a cache I found it. I will not ask for permission to log it. I will not wait for an email response before I log. I shouldn't have to!

 

39197_3100.jpg

Pepper playing nice!

Mokita!

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i have a multi in which i ask the finder to email an answer to claim credit. it's not to verify that they found the final stage, but to call their attention to the fact that if they connect the dots of the stages on a map, they get a little picture.

 

i puzzled over how to work that out without the email, but it all came down to finders could skip stages, and one has. finders are pretty ingenious.

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

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Don't assume it was LAZINESS. We have added the logs and yes they fit and the point is moot and that is the rule and we abide by it. I take offense to the lazy comment. We are some of the hardest working cachers in the state of Maryland and take great pride in doing the right things including nursing others caches but the point was NOT us being lazy. Don't assume!

quote:
Originally posted by georgeandmary:

Put a log book in the container. I've heard time and time again how there is NO WAY they cold fit a log in thier super small container so they only way to do it is with a code word.

 

I've heard this about:

film cannisters

alotids tins (big and small)

lysterine strip holders (and other brands)

small hide a key rocks

 

And you know what? I've signed logs multiple containers of each type. Quit being so lazy and make a log for the container.

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?


 

Wags, Russ & Erin

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quote:
Originally posted by flask:

i have a multi in which i ask the finder to email an answer to claim credit. it's not to verify that they found the final stage, but to call their attention to the fact that if they connect the dots of the stages on a map, they get a little picture.


 

That sounds like a puzzle multi-cache. That's like a theme. Not really the same as a code word cache. If you have to complete a task at home to get a picture, then report your results, your not forced to e-mail the owner for permission to log. It's simply part of the task to complete the theme or puzzle.

There's nothing wrong with that.

 

39197_3100.jpg

Pepper playing nice!

Mokita!

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Strangely enough, I just did my first code word micro, and it was a blast. It was on a steel beam on an overpass and it was the top half of a bolt, or looked exactly like it, that was on there magnetically. The reason I found it so easily was I looked on the other side of the beam and there was no bolt coming out the other side- AHA!

I suppose you could always put your micro out there with its "log" and then when it got approved, you could edit it a little more to the reality of the code word that must be logged online.

I'm not against code words micros, but I do prefer regular trading geocaches. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Deer laugh when they hear my name!

http://www.geocities.com/cacheinon

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quote:
Originally posted by Huntnlady:

I suppose you could always put your micro out there with its "log" and then when it got approved, you could edit it a little more to the reality of the code word that must be logged online.

I'm not against code words micros, but I do prefer regular trading geocaches. icon_rolleyes.gif


So, in other words lie to the owners of this website and the people they entrust to approve caches listed here?

Why not just follow the rules to use this site, rather then be deceptive to get something published on their website that they don't seem to want?

 

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

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I've placed half a dozen code word caches which DEFINATELY would not hold a log. I have received nothing but rave reviews on these from the cachers who found them...some took two or three trips and they were cachers who had found in the hundreds.

 

Glad I got them placed before this *rule* took place.

 

Ron (843 found/180 hidden)

 

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

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quote:
Originally posted by Runaround:

 

If it's in the middle of the woods, why does it need to be a micro? An ammo can should work quite nicely.


 

I can think of one reason why a micro in the woods might be better than an Ammo can or tupperware container. A lot of park managers can't get it out of their head that geocaching means placing what THEY consider to betrash in land entrusted to them.

 

They hear Tupper ware container, 'mcdonald toys, pencil and pad of paper and it's like you just said, "i want to put this box of trash in that bush over there." That's a hard perception to break.

 

At least one park here locally won't allow traditional caches but they ARE agreeable to plastic cigar tubes or 35 mm canisters (with permisson). I've really enjoyed logging micro caches in that park. I'm glad a compromise was reached. With more and more parks taking a hard stance against caching we may see more compromises like this.

 

Jolly R. Blackburn

http://kenzerco.com

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quote:
Originally posted by Moun10Bike:

quote:
Originally posted by Last Lap Gang:

So, we knew we couldn't put in a log book because these tins are not much bigger than a 50Cent piece.


 

Many of us have found dozens of caches smaller than that that contain logbooks.


Joani has made custom log books for a bunch of ultra micro caches that we have placed. Some are smaller than the cache mentioned above. Nobody has complained about the logbook being too small. icon_wink.gif

 

--Marky

"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr"

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quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

The only problem that I've found with micro caches is that the log book is too small.


 

I'm with the nut on this one. 99% of the time I don't have a pencil and have to write with one that doesn't fit my grip. My moniker just doesn't like to fit on the one line only logs with 1cm to write.

 

Now Huntnlady's bolt is probably approvable with a proper explination. The rules are guidlines. Stiff guidlines but not entirely inflexible. We lost an overpass cache that was a normal micro with a log book. The bolt would of lasted longer.

 

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

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