Should I place caches while on holiday?

1.2k · October 30, 2002

I shall soon be going on holiday to the West Indies and intend placing a couple of caches on each of the two islands I shall be visiting.

Much as I would like to I shan't be able to maintain these caches which breaks one of the "rules" for placing caches. So my question is - Should I place the (real) caches, complete with some travel bugs I currently have or should I restrict myself to virtuals?

_________________________________________________________

It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do.

October 30, 2002

If the rules state you shouldn't do this why are you asking if it's alright to do it? If it was a good idea then there probably wouldn't be a rule. Even for virtuals. There is currently a virtual at Disney's MGM. It requires you to make observations that currently can not be made due to construction. The person who started the cache is from out of town so had no idea what was going on and has no real ability to "maintain his virtual" As for real caches, if you can't visit them and keep them up then they are just litter.

You can't be lost if you don't care where you are.

1.2k · October 30, 2002

Hi freelens/mosie, your comments raise another question in my mind so I'm glad I started this thread.

In the past I was starting to get some flak for placing too many caches in my immediate neighbourhood (i.e. within 5-10 miles of my home). Because of this I started planting further afield which means I can't regularly visit them.

I rely on finders' logs to let me know of any problems (thankfully very few). If I can't visit these caches should I archive them? I'm certainly not inclined to but if there is a groundswell of local opinion in favour of doing away with them well I'll have to think again.

How often to other "cache planters" re-vist their caches for maintenance?

_________________________________________________________

It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do.

38.2k · October 30, 2002

quote:
I rely on finders' logs to let me know of any problems (thankfully very few). If I can't visit these caches should I archive them? I'm certainly not inclined to but if there is a groundswell of local opinion in favour of doing away with them well I'll have to think again.

How often to other "cache planters" re-vist their caches for maintenance?

I'm against the idea of planting a cache you can't maintain. Regarding the caches that you placed that are some distance from your home, I think it's fine to rely on the logs to stay apprised of their condition - to a point. You should visit them ocassionally just to make sure the contents haven't degraded to the point where they're filled with GeoJunk and to check on their impact on the surrounding area. I have 30+ caches placed and I probably visit each one every 6 months or so, unless there is a problem reported, or the cache is a particularly popular one.

"Men don't stop playing because they get old, they get old because they stop playing" Oliver Wendell Holmes

1.6k · October 30, 2002

Geocaches should be in locales that you can get to. I just ran across a cache in one of our state parks that was missing. Its too far from home for the cacher that placed it to go to regularly that several people have reported it missing and yet its still on the list due to lack of owner action. Annoying. I have 4 caches placed all are within 10-15 miles of home and I visit them frequently.

As for the distance issue, I really think it becomes a problem only when you are talking about caches that are REALLY close to each other (under 200 meters). The more serious issue is when caches get placed so frequently in an area that the good cache hiding spots get used up and the new caches are of bad quality.

By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I.

October 30, 2002

I think you should be close enough to take care of your cache or have someone to help in the area. I have been doing this only for about 4-5 months and want my caches to be good and weed some of the crap out and put new stuff in there. I went to take care of one of my caches the other day and got a ticket, 70 in a 55 ouch!!

Don

[This message was edited by forman on October 30, 2002 at 05:46 AM.]

October 30, 2002

I fully agree with freelens/mosie. And what is the motivation for placing your vacation caches?

October 30, 2002

quote:
........And what is the motivation for placing your vacation caches?

What is the motivation for placing any cache?............. It is surely not for the "quality" of the goods within the cache. (Is it......??).

I personally place caches for the interest, to others, of the location and the ingenuity required to find it.

October 30, 2002

I would never place a vacation cache in a place where there is an active geocaching community, because I'm sure the locals know much better places to put caches than I ever would, so why would I just add clutter?

However, I think a case can be made for placing caches where there is little to no local geocaching scene. Having a few caches around can help jumpstart a scene, as well as giving other tourists things to look for. I'm fine with the idea of "finder-maintained" caches, though I myself wouldn't place one.

I recently went to Mexico for a couple of weeks. I brought down a physical cache to place, since I have a friend living there who could check up on it for me. Unfortunately I didn't find a quality place to put it that was near enough to him to not be inconvenient, so I never placed it.

I did end up finding a beautiful lookout in the mountains of Oaxaca, so I put a virtual cache there instead.

I guess my main reason for caching is to find interesting places, so I'm usually not disappointed if I can't find the actual cache, as long as the location is nice. What bugs me is tourists who place a cache just for the sake of placing the cache, but don't take the time to find a really good location.

There is quite a concentration of caches in Mexico around popular resorts. I think it actually makes quite a lot of sense to put finder-maintained caches in places like this that have a big temporary population of geocachers, but no local cachers.

October 30, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by emanuel:
What bugs me is tourists who place a cache just for the sake of placing the cache, but don't take the time to find a really good location.

Emanuel, Can you cite any examples?

Neil

2k · October 30, 2002

I have place 3 caches that are Bug Hotel only caches in rest areas that I can't get to.

A few of them receive alot of activity and the geocaching community has helped me greatly with these caches.

However, the big difference is since they are bug hotels the caches don't get filled with Mctoys and crap.

October 30, 2002

You can encourage Geocaching in new areas by placing caches - I placed the first cache in Singapore, which now has an active caching community.

If you don't have a local to check on your cache then the reports will do just as well. The downside is that you'll probably have to archive it before you might otherwise do so.

Personally I don't think the contents are very important (that's not why I go caching) but you could try a "themed" approach to maintain higher quality , which is working well for my physical cache in DC.

October 30, 2002

There are some exceptions, though. There are several caches in the African savanah and Australian wilderness which are so remote they don't attract much traffic. These caches can probably go on for decades without having to be maintained. If ever a soul should wander upon one of these, it would be an almost archaeological discovery.

On the other hand, when cachers place low quality caches in high traffic areas without establishing any responsibility - local or otherwise - that harms the community as a whole. Caches deteriorate in quality and cannot be easily restored.

An example of a good idea gone bad is the cache at Disney's Castaway Cay. Since the ONLY way to get to it is by taking a rather expensive cruise, it's unlikely that visitors will have the resources to maintain it.

As a cacher, your responsibility is to place quality caches, not something that will over a short period of time become litter.

---------------

Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

4.5k · October 30, 2002

Visiting a relative in Florida from NY, we not only went caching a few times but sought out a nice park with no cache that we then placed one in. Cache. That was in June and there's been 13 visitors. My relative is not into geocaching but should do the maintenace if required if I get a post that indicates a problem. Nothing yet however.

Of course if there's ever a problem, I bet I could contact other hiders and/or seekers in the area that I could ask to do some maintenance for me and someone would be glad to do it. What's the big deal? I have more confidence than you guys that other cachers would help me out. I would if the situation was reversed.

On the other hand this could be the excuse I need to tell the wife I need to make another trip to Florida. Hmmm.

Alan

3k · October 30, 2002

when I cache, as I learn more and more from these forums, that I should keep an eye on any cache I visit. If it's wet, dry it out, if it's low on goodies, fill it up. If it's gone, broken, or trashed, e-mail the owner. These things have happened and I'm only too happy to help. I have received the same treatment from people visiting our caches, one wasn't closed up tight once, and someone dried it out. Another one we had a temporary log book in and someone left a new log book in it. Now I carry extra log books, plastic baggies, and lots of goodies for all ages to maintain any cache I visit. So far around here they are mostly in good shape.

We visited a cache in Cape Cod that the owner has moved away from and when we couldn't find it using 2 Garmins and another cacher couldn't find it we all posted notes and the cache placer posted a note saying he moved and could someone check on it. Turns out the cache was still there but I don't know if anyone adopted it yet, and it's placed in a sand dune in a fragile environment. That cache should have someone responsible for it in case the area starts getting to much of an impact from visitors.

Cache you later,

Planet

1.4k · November 1, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by emanuel:
However, I think a case can be made for placing caches where there is little to no local geocaching scene. Having a few caches around can help jumpstart a scene, as well as giving other tourists things to look for. I'm fine with the idea of "finder-maintained" caches, though I myself wouldn't place one.

I agree....We planted 3 Physicals & 2 Virtuals in an Area of Ireland that had absolutly no caches in it before. All have been well recieved. I can't see any point in planting lame caches just for the sake of planting one. The three important things with caches are location,location, location.

quote:
Originally posted by Planet:
Now I carry extra log books, plastic baggies, and lots of goodies for all ages to maintain any cache I visit. So far around here they are mostly in good shape.

I now do the same (plus some spare tupperware containers) as I have encountered a few vacation caches in the UK from visiting Americans which now need maintenance....Plus it helps if you accidently break the box which has happened to me 3 times so far.

So in conclusion I would say - if it is a good location with few active cachers around...go for it.

Chris

"We're not lost - we just don't know where we are"

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

1k · November 1, 2002

Go for it

November 1, 2002

Without meaning to step on anyones toes i cant see any real problem with this. The worst that could possibly happen is that in a couple of years there will be a battered lunch box sitting neglected in a wood somewhere - and still, it will be posted on the site and people could still find it? Is a box with a hole in it and wet contents any less a cache? This is supposed to be a simple game where we find boxes with a gps and time and time again i see people taking things sooo seriously. If there is a realy seious problem with this i am missing i will be more than willing to listen but at the moment it seems a bit silly to me?!?

Dan Wilson - www.Buckscaching.co.uk

November 1, 2002

Unless you can maintain, don't place it. Well, Unless it's a virtual...

Doug

5k · November 1, 2002

For those of you who don't see a problem, I offer the following cache as an example.

GC7152

Fortunately, the owner of this cache realizes the mistake and is attempting to fix the problem through discussion in the regional forums.

Jamie

November 1, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Z:
For those of you who don't see a problem, I offer the following cache as an example.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=29010

Fortunately, the owner of this cache realizes the mistake and is attempting to fix the problem through discussion in the regional forums.

Jamie

The example highlights the need to understand any local restrictions; this is good practice and I use the technique of asking people with local knowledge (ideally Geocachers if possible).

The other point here is that the cache has correctly been archived and should now be removed / moved. As I mentioned above, any distant cache is likely to have a shorter life; as long as we don't expect caches to last forever then there is no problem.

November 1, 2002

I really don't have a problem with someone placing a cache away from their own locale. I think it's grand if someone wants to maintain a cache for another cacher. But I would like to emphasise that this should be arranged before hiding. These arrangements should include what to do if the 'manager' leaves the area.

---------------

Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

1.6k · November 1, 2002

Would you rather have a quality cache in a durable comtainer half-way around the world from the hider's home that contains a note asking to make sure the cache is in good shape?

-or-

A water-logged tupperware container full of cr@p two miles from a hider who refuses to do anything about?

I never have a problem helping out with a cache. We carry supplies just for that.

CR

-- Insert pithy aphorism here --

November 1, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:
Would you rather have a quality cache in a durable comtainer half-way around the world from the hider's home that contains a note asking to make sure the cache is in good shape?

-or-

A water-logged tupperware container full of cr@p two miles from a hider who refuses to do anything about?

I never have a problem helping out with a cache. We carry supplies just for that.

Unfortunately, there is no way to guarantee that your "quality cache in a durable comtainer half-way around the world from the hider's home" will stay that way. The hider can't maintain it, not every place has locals, and you aren't able to travel to every needy cache.

--

wcgreen

Wendy Chatley Green

1.6k · November 1, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by wcgreen:
Unfortunately, there is no way to guarantee that your "quality cache in a durable comtainer half-way around the world from the hider's home" will stay that way.

I guess it comes down to what's a quality cache. Personally, I could care less for trade items and if it weren't for Sissy my caches would be nothing but a logbook in a box--plus a stamp for letterboxers.

Once you get past a container--like an ammo box or similar--then is the "quality" of a cache determined by the trade items? If so, then it's the finders that bringing it down. I don't think "maintaining" a cache should be just dumping McCrap out of a box replacing with good stuff. If that's the case why bother with allowing trading in the first place?

Personally, I think a finder has a responsiblity to the next finder. Like trading fairly, not just taking everything in the box, putting everything back in the box like it's supposed to be, hiding it as well as he found it, following the hider's instructions, etc. I think a good portion of finders try to leave the cache better than they found it.

I find it sad that fellow cachers wouldn't help each other out. Or promote the concept.

CR

-- Insert pithy aphorism here --

November 1, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by wcgreen:

Unfortunately, there is no way to guarantee that your "quality cache in a durable comtainer half-way around the world from the hider's home" will stay that way. The hider can't maintain it, not every place has locals, and you aren't able to travel to every needy cache.

--

wcgreen

Wendy Chatley Green

If someone is interested in their cache, they'll either get someone to maintain it or archive it. Problem solved.

If someone isn't interested in their cache then it'll remain as rubbish. Their proximity to the cache is sadly irrelevant to their interest level.

3k · November 1, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Team D&P:
Without meaning to step on anyones toes i cant see any real problem with this. The worst that could possibly happen is that in a couple of years there will be a battered lunch box sitting neglected in a wood somewhere - and still, it will be posted on the site and people could still find it? Is a box with a hole in it and wet contents any less a cache? This is supposed to be a simple game where we find boxes with a gps and time and time again i see people taking things sooo seriously. If there is a realy seious problem with this i am missing i will be more than willing to listen but at the moment it seems a bit silly to me?!?

Dan Wilson - http://www.Buckscaching.co.uk

The cache I was talking about is this one: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=1256

It is in a sand dune on Cape Cod and these are very fragile environments and if the cache placer is not around to make sure the area isn't being trampled, then it could be a problem. After we couldn't find it, and another cacher couldn't either, the placer posted a note asking if someone could adopt the site as they had moved out of the area. Soon after, someone did find it and the placer deleted this note. So no one has adopted the cache and it will be up to finders to take care of it or mention if the area is being impacted. I would have adopted the cache but I don't live on the Cape. I gave my nephew a Garmin Legend and he may be moving to the Cape. Maybe he can adopt it.

Cache you later,

Planet

I feel much more like I do now than when I first got here.

November 1, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:

quote:
Originally posted by wcgreen:
Unfortunately, there is no way to guarantee that your "quality cache in a durable comtainer half-way around the world from the hider's home" will stay that way.

Personally, I think a finder has a responsiblity to the next finder. Like trading fairly, not just taking everything in the box, putting everything back in the box like it's supposed to be, hiding it as well as he found it, following the hider's instructions, etc. I think a good portion of finders try to leave the cache better than they found it.

Agreed. This, however, is not the same as maintaining abandoned, forgotten, orphaned, or poorly thought-out caches.

quote:
I find it sad that fellow cachers wouldn't help each other out. Or promote the concept.

Not everyone can carry spare ammo cans, spiffy trade goods, log books, etc. with them. The responsibility should lie more with the hider than those who may (or may not) try to find. After all, it's the hider's cache.

It's one thing to help. Kudos to you for your volunteer efforts.

It's another thing to have the responsibility for a cache dumped on the finder/locals/whomever without warning. Blanche Dubois didn't get very far on the kindness of strangers and neither do many orphaned or ill-considered caches.

--

wcgreen

Wendy Chatley Green

1.2k · November 1, 2002

Very many thanks for all your points of view, I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

Whilst I understand several people's concerns about the impact on the environment and local regulations etc. I have decided to place the physical caches as I originally planned.

My thoughts are best summarised by Dan of Team D&P - what we are talking about here is a couple of small plastic boxes on a couple of islands of hundreds of square miles in area.

The VERY worst that can happen is that a miniscule amount of extra rubbish is added to tons already existing on the islands. Keep the right perspective on this. On the opposite side of the equation is the extension of this great game to another part of the world.

At the end of the day this is a totally harmless GAME. My aim is to bring people to areas of the world which I think are special and want to share with others. The contents of the caches are of secondary importance to where they are placed. Yes they could be virtuals but I much prefer proper physical caches.

I may not be able to read the logbooks but why should I deny others that pleasure. I get my enjoyment from reading the logs on Geocaching.com

So without naming the caches or the islands for fear of being accused of advertising I say - go and enjoy any caches you find while on holiday and if you feel the urge to place some of your own, as Pid says - GO FOR IT!

_________________________________________________________

It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do.

November 1, 2002

... if you were to go and place some caches in an area far from your home but in an area already populated with caches - why bother? However, placing them in new areas seems likely to boost the sport/hobby. With no caches anywhere near me I´ve hidden some in areas I won´t be able to get back to more than about once a year but purely with the intention of giving other budding geocachers something to go out and look for.... hoping that then they might return the favour

1.7k · November 2, 2002

Its not just a question of Geo-litter, its are you breaking local laws. In an earlier post in this list an example was given of a cache placed in Florida by a Geocacher on vacation. In turns out that it violated a law regarding, placing things along a trail. In the actual post by the person who orginally paced the cache they also said that a park ranger was very unhappy with this.

Now play it out a little further, park ranger upset by illegal geocache deciedes to ban Geocahcinhg in his park. Local geocachers suffer becuase of someone from out of town. The person from out of town can still geocache where they live.

Its not just a question of litter, its a question of having some repect for those of us who live in an area where a vactioning geocacher may do this. Long after your vacation is over we may have to live with the consequences of you self centered actions.

1k · November 3, 2002

GO FOR IT!

November 3, 2002

That is sooooo very over the top. 99% of cachers would be responsible enough to check things like that out first. The only problem with planting a cache out of town is that some people might see another reason to turn lunchbox hunting into a serious matter and a reason to argue. STAY HAPPY and plant as many lunch boxes as your heart desires.

Dan Wilson - www.Buckscaching.co.uk

Should I place caches while on holiday?

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