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Official Geocaching FRS Channel


mrcpu

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Thanks to this discussion I think we need to hold a vote and pick an FRS Channel.

 

Unfortunatly there are only 5 choices so I'm going to take the results and break them down and re-run another pole in a couple of days.

 

So, What FRS channel do you want to be the default Geocaching Channel? Pick a range and I will run a pole for that range.

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

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One of the other state groups used 12, so we took our lead from them at our Syracuse NY picnic earlier this month.

 

As for how it works with subchannels, use 12 sub channel 0. that will let you interoperate with radios that don't have subchannels.

 

It was quite amusing to listen to everyone talk, and I've started a practice of giving a 'shout-out' on 12 whenever I go out caching.

 

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

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quote:
Originally posted by mrcpu:

I also believe that GMRS overlaps on 7-14

 

Originally posted by Cheesehead Dave

also have the subchannels as well. How do those relate to FRS channels?


To the best of my memory the FRS channels all overlap the GRMS, just not all of GRMS channels.

 

The way I understand the subchannels is that when used the broadcast a subaudible tone that is used seperate the frequecies into smaller groups. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Vince

KD5NVO

0H/7F

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quote:
Originally posted by mrcpu:

I also believe that GMRS overlaps on 7-14

 

Originally posted by Cheesehead Dave

also have the subchannels as well. How do those relate to FRS channels?


To the best of my memory the FRS channels all overlap the GRMS, just not all of GRMS channels.

 

The way I understand the subchannels is that when used the broadcast a subaudible tone that is used seperate the frequecies into smaller groups. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Vince

KD5NVO

0H/7F

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quote:
Originally posted by mrcpu:

I'm prefering 10 because as one person said "geocaching has 10 letters". I also believe that GMRS overlaps on 7-14 which would be cool.

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command


 

FRS 1-6 are the same as GMRS 1-6. FRS 7 and up are FRS only.

For this reason, I'd like to see 6 or below used for our calling channel.

Subchannels, by the way for those who were asking, are CTCSS/PL squelch tones.

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For the non-technical user, the subchannels act as a filter. They're sometimes referred to as privacy channels, but they aren't private at all.

 

Users with the same channel/subchannel combination will only hear broadcasts on that channel/subchannel combination. Anyone with just the main channel selected will hear everything broadcast on all subchannels, but if they talk, they won't be heard by subchannel users.

 

I DON'T recommend channel 1 because it is the primary highway/emergency monitoring channel. There is just too much activity on this channel, and geocachers don't need to make it even busier when there are so many other channels to choose from.

 

Also, GMSR users realllllly don't like FRS users for that exact reason that the channels overlap from 1-6. They pay a lot of money for equipment and licence for the priviledge of their extended range. I say, keep them happy, and stay in the higher channels.

 

12 is cool - especially since it's already being used by geocachers.

 

14 channel/38 subchannel radios are getting REAL cheap now, so their aquirability shouldn't be an issue at all.

 

Just my 2c.

 

---------------

wavey.gif Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

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I will vote for 12 since it seems to have an unofficial start and a following.

On my motorcycle (with a special headset mounted in my helmet) I like using 9. I don't catch as much traffic on 8-14 cross country as on the lower 7. So if not 12 one of the other highest 7 channels (preferably other than 9, that has become my unofficial motorcycling channel)

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I don't know where I read it recently, but somewhere it was mentioned that channel One is gaining popularity for the Calling Channel. You get in contact with your party on channel one then move off to another channel to chat. This was about FRS in general, not just Geocaching.

 

If this is true, shouldn't we fall in line?

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This has come up before in various iterations. For my explanation of FRS, GMRS, and the sub-tones, see this thread:

 

http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000917383&m=1260932925&r=1780903925#1780903925

 

I tried to explain it the best I know how, anybody feel free to correct it as need be.

 

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song,

Or wisdom for a dance in the street.................

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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Marv:

I don't know where I read it recently, but somewhere it was mentioned that channel One is gaining popularity for the Calling Channel. You get in contact with your party on channel one then move off to another channel to chat. This was about FRS in general, not just Geocaching.

 

If this is true, shouldn't we fall in line?


 

No. What we're doing here is trying to 'establish' the call channel for geocaching ahead of time. Think of this thread as your channel one, and when you get to the field, switch to channel 12. If there are other geocachers within 2 miles, then chances are you'll hear them and can communicate.

 

The beauty of FRS is the relaxed attitude towards regulation. Really the only rules are 1) Be courteous, and 2) don't turn your radio into a broadcast radio station. Oh, and 3) don't use that call button every 5 seconds just 'cause it's cool icon_razz.gif

 

It's like if my wife and I get separate cars to go somewhere, we don't get in, turn to channel one and say "OK, honey, let's go to channel 12, subchannel 27." We can just establish that ahead of time.

 

Now, if once you get out to a cache, and 12 is busy, that's when you start talkin' subchannels.

 

---------------

wavey.gif Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Marv:

I don't know where I read it recently, but somewhere it was mentioned that channel One is gaining popularity for the Calling Channel. You get in contact with your party on channel one then move off to another channel to chat. This was about FRS in general, not just Geocaching.

 

If this is true, shouldn't we fall in line?


 

No. What we're doing here is trying to 'establish' the call channel for geocaching ahead of time. Think of this thread as your channel one, and when you get to the field, switch to channel 12. If there are other geocachers within 2 miles, then chances are you'll hear them and can communicate.

 

The beauty of FRS is the relaxed attitude towards regulation. Really the only rules are 1) Be courteous, and 2) don't turn your radio into a broadcast radio station. Oh, and 3) don't use that call button every 5 seconds just 'cause it's cool icon_razz.gif

 

It's like if my wife and I get separate cars to go somewhere, we don't get in, turn to channel one and say "OK, honey, let's go to channel 12, subchannel 27." We can just establish that ahead of time.

 

Now, if once you get out to a cache, and 12 is busy, that's when you start talkin' subchannels.

 

---------------

wavey.gif Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

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My brother radio shares chanels 1-7 with FRS radios, but chanels 8-14 are not shared with FRS radios, it uses a different frequency that requires a liscence. The number 6 looks kind of like what most of us would do on a hunt, walk in, adjust our direction, circle in around the cache, and find it.

 

If you are talking via communicatior to Captain Picard, remember this, for it is the single most important thing you can learn... Never give him a straight answer, make sure he has to come on down to the planet and see for himself.

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quote:
Originally posted by ApK:

 

FRS 1-6 are the same as GMRS 1-6. FRS 7 and up are FRS only.

For this reason, I'd like to see 6 or below used for our calling channel.

Subchannels, by the way for those who were asking, are CTCSS/PL squelch tones.


 

That is exaclty why I think it should be a LOW channel, so that GMRS users can comunicate also, like my brother. If it is a high chanel, GMRS radios would be useless for geocaching.

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quote:
My brother radio shares chanels 1-7 with FRS radios, but chanels 8-14 are not shared with FRS radios, it uses a different frequency that requires a liscence.

 

Use of ALL channels on a GMRS device requires a license. If your brother, or immediate family member, doesn't have one, he's breaking the law. The license isn't required just for access to the other channels, it's also because GMRS devices use more wattage. That extra wattage is used on all the channels that can be accessed.

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In as far as the discussion of whether or not to select a channel common to both FRS and GMRS (Ch1 to Ch7), I think the idea to do so has merit. This isn't about 'FRS users' and 'GMRS users', this is about 'GeoCachers' - regardless of which radio service they're using (both of which are 'family' orientated services by the way). The FCC has seen fit to allocate a 7 channel overlap between these two services to provide limited interoperability and, despite some sour grapes from the GMRS folks, that's 'just the way it is' (there is no GMRS in Canada, so it's a non-issue up here). In the grand scheme of things (and considering a typical 'real world' scenario where you have a couple of GeoCachers thrashing through the bushes - one with an FRS radio and one with a GMRS radio), using a common channel only makes sense ...to do otherwise would exclude GeoCachers who own GMRS equipment (or cause them to purchase an FRS radio when they would otherwise not have had to). I would also be a strong proponent of avoiding the use of any CTCSS tone on whatever channel is decided on; these tones (or 'sub-channel/privacy[?] codes') are not commonly labelled between all brands of radios (which can, in itself, be confusing) and their use would largely defeat the purpose of establishing this channel in the first place ...that is, to make it *easy* and *simple* to be able to hear the transmissions of fellow GeoCachers in the same area as you are. Once a GeoCaching channel decided on, I think it would serve us well to promote it by also indicating that GeoCachers using this channel should do so with a CTCSS tone/'sub-channel' set to '0' (or 'Off').

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after those of you who know about these things hash out which channel to use (and i am very greatfull that you are cus i dont know anything about this at all) please advise the rest of us which radio to buy and why.

 

i think this is overall a ver ygood idea. it might be especially usefull if your caching outside of your home area and hit a snag of some sorts. a friendly geocacher (assuming he/she has a radio on and within receiving distance) can come to the rescue. kinda like cache buddies but on radio.

 

thanks for undertaking this task for the rest of us.

 

SR and dboggny. my mother in law rides a broom!

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I also support choosing a channel with GMRS overlap.

 

Once upon a time, GMRS was primarily a business-based service. No more. The FCC has expressly designated GMRS for personal use:

 

quote:
The GMRS is a land mobile radio service available to persons for short-distance two-way communications to facilitate the activities of licensees and their immediate family members. (47 CFR 95 Subpart A, aka FCC Part 95.1)

 

In fact, "non-individuals" (e.g., businesses) are no longer allowed to obtain GMRS licenses. The FCC has also dropped the license fee (now $75 for a 5-year term). It seems clear that their intent is to make GMRS a "super-FRS." That being the case, agreeing on one of the overlapping channels adds flexibility for geocachers who may decide to pay the $75 to increase their range without obsoleting their existing FRS radios.

 

Channel 6 is fine by me.

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Initially voted for channel 4 because i keep the CBs on that channel and we tend to use that same channel on the FRS radios as well. Before the page refreshed and even before i read any of the replies, i too thought about the number of letters in GeoCaching.. Take off a vote for 4 and make mine for 10,,, icon_razz.gif

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Initially voted for channel 4 because i keep the CBs on that channel and we tend to use that same channel on the FRS radios as well. Before the page refreshed and even before i read any of the replies, i too thought about the number of letters in GeoCaching.. Take off a vote for 4 and make mine for 10,,, icon_razz.gif

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2 sounds good to me too now, I voted for 10 at first. Make sure when you make the final poll you post the pros /cons weve discovered of the channels so the ill-informed have something to go by.

 

Me and that dog are gonna take a walk in the woods, and only one of us is coming back...

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For what it's worth, channels that should probably be avoided are Ch1 (already a default call-channel used by everyone under the sun which could require users to 'move' after establishing contact), Ch9 (used by some SAR groups as a default emergency call-channel ...no doubt a carry-over from CB) and Ch11 (recognized by the American Birding Association as a common channel for North American birdwatchers). There may be (probably are) other groups who have 'adopted' an FRS channel, but I wouldn't be too concerned unless they had a 'national' presence and the chances of our own use conflicting with their's was high. It's probably worth pointing out that, in the eyes of both the FCC and Industry Canada, there is *NO* formal allocation of FRS channels for a specific purpose ...but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to avoid channels that are widely (if only 'unofficially') recognized for use by various groups other than our own. Regardless of the channel used, if this whole idea is to be successfully implemented, we should take the time to establish/promote some basic guidelines of simple courtesy for those occasions when non-GeoCachers might be using the 'GeoCaching' channel at a time/place where GeoCachers are actively engaged in a hunt. Taking a cue from the folks at the American Birdwatching Association (who have clearly given this whole issue in-depth consideration), I think we would be wise to adopt a similar set of recommendations when it comes to dealing with instances of 'conflict of use':

 

http://www.americanbirding.org/resources/resfrs.htm

 

[This message was edited by Cache Canucks on August 20, 2002 at 08:23 AM.]

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However, I don't like the adoption of a subchannel. I would prefer to just 'adopt' a full channel.

 

If FRS usage becomes overwhelming (I mean, really, do people even use all 40 CB channels?), then we can talk about a subchannel.

 

My vote is still for 12. Sorry GMRS users!

 

---------------

wavey.gif Go! And don't be afraid to get a little wet!

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My vote goes to 12 since other groups have already started there. If another channel is adopted then you'll be incommunicado when in the areas of those groups. Probably 12/0 would be a good start and if there is too much traffic when you are hunting, the group could temporarily adopt another privacy channel.

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quote:
However, I don't like the adoption of a subchannel. I would prefer to just 'adopt' a full channel.

 

If FRS usage becomes overwhelming (I mean, really, do people even use all 40 CB channels?), then we can talk about a subchannel.


 

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I too believe that adopting a CTCSS tone (or 'subchannel') would hinder the intended purpose of a GeoCaching channel. That aside, the ABA's basic 'what to do when' in the event of encountering channel users other than those belonging to our group is still sound ...it just needs to be modified a bit (instead of switching to an alternate sub-channel, GeoCachers would simply move to a different channel altogether). The main point of this being 'courtesy for other FRS users' and acknowledging that the best practice is to avoid conflict ...even if it means changing channels if the situation dictates. I also agree that, in the vast majority of circumstances, the chances of a couple of GeoCachers using 1/2 watt UHF handhelds interfering with *anyone's* radio communications in the middle of typical 'GeoCaching territory' is probably slim to nil.

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I don't know why, but when we go to Silver Dollar City with our FRS radios, 2 is usually the channel with the least trafic.

 

quote:
Originally posted by mrcpu:

OK, so here is my thoughts so far:

 

1. Making the channel an FRS/GRMS

2. Make the channel accessible for people with low end FRS radios that only have 2 channels

 

Therefore, I'm considering channel 2.

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command


 

If you are talking via communicatior to Captain Picard, remember this, for it is the single most important thing you can learn... Never give him a straight answer, make sure he has to come on down to the planet and see for himself.

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If i had an FRS radio (which at the moment I dont) I would say for technical reasons:

Use cnl 2 ,as its in the range of both set of radios (gmrs and frs) and would be available on the low end frs radios as well.

Keep the CTCSS tone/'sub-channel' stuff off, at least to start with. A technical point: the "sub-channel" is NOT a different frequency then the main channel. If somone on channel 2 subchannel 15 tries to transmit at the same time someone on channel 2 subchannel 10 (or any of them) tries to transmit, they are both using the same frequency and will "walk all over each other" and likely neither will be heard. What the CTCSS tone/'sub-channel' does is act as a filter for your radio, so that you only hear others on that frequency transmitting with that same CTCSS tone. In this usage 'sub-channel" is a misnomer, it does not give you any more concurrent frequencies. Only 1 transmission can take place at a time on each of the 14 channels (in the vicinity of the transmitters/receivers that is).

In the old CB world, or HAM world, it was always polite to "open your squelch" to listen to see if there was any active transmission before keying up yourself. This would be the same as running with CTCSS off, so you would hear if there was any activity on the channel at all.

As a backup, if channel 2 was too crowded in an area, bump up to 12.

-Centaur

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quote:
Originally posted by mrcpu:

I prefer two cans and a string. Don't have to worry about batteries!


 

Yes but are we going to use size 2 cans or size 12 cans?

 

And do we also carry those little tomato paste cans to use as "sub-cans"?

 

There is also the longstanding problem of communications on these units sounding tinny!!!

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I bet with these new units we would hear "I'm aFRAYED, I CAN't hear you to well!!"

 

Just trying to inject some humour into a topic that is getting to serious to quickly. icon_razz.gif

 

I think that since a Geocache club has already bit the bullet and made an executive desion to use channel 12 then lats fall into line and use channel 12 with 2 as a fall back channel.

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I bet with these new units we would hear "I'm aFRAYED, I CAN't hear you to well!!"

 

Just trying to inject some humour into a topic that is getting to serious to quickly. icon_razz.gif

 

I think that since a Geocache club has already bit the bullet and made an executive desion to use channel 12 then lats fall into line and use channel 12 with 2 as a fall back channel.

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