When is a prison not a prison. (or) Not MY travel bug!

July 22, 2003

We are looking for some input on an idea, and I am sure after you see what it is we will get more advice than you can shake a GPS at.

What we are considering is a travel bug "prison" (not sure if that is really the right term or if we would call it something else: resort? detention center? Forced Vacation in a luxury cache?). This would be placed in the vicinity of Blairsville, PA, Indiana County. The original idea comes from the post in the General area called "My travel bug is in prison! No really!" Although there is some controversy surrounding this one, I think the basic idea is good and hopefully when you read of our proposed adaptation you will agree or have some constructive commentary.

Here is our idea: Due to the fact that our geo group consists more of people under the age of 18, we want to do something that would encourage kid participation. The cache would be placed in a friendly terrain but the difficulty of finding it would be high and require logic and puzzle solving skills (a multi cache for sure).

Most of the bugs brought to the area would be done so by some one on our team. Right now we have "Da King" (Caspain of CG) in Dayton, Ohio and the bulk of the team Heart_of_CG (two adults and five kids) in PA.

Kidnapping travel bugs seems like a harmless enough event, as long as you log them as soon as the crime has been committed. This, we feel, would give the younger geocachers a chance to really get involved and liberate the captured bugs. Again, all things would be done in a responsible manner. And who knows what adventures would happen to the bugs by their captivity.

Now we know that some people are more then likely saying WHAT !!!???? kidnap MY BUG!! I think not! Let us assure you that if we do this, we would also be responsible and not allow a bug to sit in prison for an extended period of time. We realize that they need to travel, and after a short term sentence we ourselves would free them if we find they have been milking our hospitality for too long…….

July 22, 2003

Great IDEA Caspian....... gee why did I think of that??????????????

Heart

July 22, 2003

Good idea. We are actually working on something similar here in North Florida.

Geocaching: Walking with a purpose.

1.7k · July 22, 2003

How on earth could this possibly be considered a good idea? I'm all for hard caches - I've placed a few of my own - but I go out of my way to not put bugs in them. I've had a bug or two end up in a difficult cache in the @ss-end of nowhere, and it's not fun. I'd suggest that, to avoid p!ssing off bug owners, you should at least get their permission before sticking their bug in a cache that you know it'll have trouble getting back out of.

I mean, come on, just go read the TB forum. People there get panicky if you just hold on to their bug for more than a week. Deliberately putting it somewhere where it won't move is just not nice.

pirate.cgi.gif

July 22, 2003

Why create another prison when there are so many out there already? May I direct your attention to this bug?

One year in prison. What was his offense?

Travel Bugs should travel. Period. That's why I don't go after them any more: I couldn't take the guilt when I couldn't place them quickly or towards their objective.

But lest I sound too negative, may I suggest that you turn your wonderful energy and creativity towards some way of keeping bugs moving??

Ode to a Pigeon: Roses are Red, Violets are Blue, You Lookin' at Me? YOU LOOKIN' AT ME?! (b. katt, 7/14/03)

July 22, 2003

I think that your missing the point here. The point to what we are thinking about doing is making this FUN for the little geocachers. This would not be a difficult cache. It would be a 1 difficulity perhaps 2 ( on a childs thinking scale) and a terrain of 1. The purpose would be to promote little geocachers in this area and give them a cache that they would want to go to, have fun with and in the end be the rescue hero. If you read, we added and I will quote "Kidnapping travel bugs seems like a harmless enough event, as long as you log them as soon as the crime has been committed. This, we feel, would give the younger geocachers a chance to really get involved and liberate the captured bugs. Again, all things would be done in a responsible manner. And who knows what adventures would happen to the bugs by their captivity.

Now we know that some people are more then likely saying WHAT !!!???? kidnap MY BUG!! I think not! Let us assure you that if we do this, we would also be responsible and not allow a bug to sit in prison for an extended period of time. We realize that they need to travel, and after a short term sentence we ourselves would free them if we find they have been milking our hospitality for too long……."

meaning that the owners of this cache would rescue out bugs that remained there for too long lets say a two week period max. While I understand 'napping bugs is not a good thing....I do feel that we as the adults need to realize that kids are also involved in this sport. It is a good, activity that will not drain us parents financially and it also encourages logical thinking and the abilty to use common sense. while looking at things from this perspective, with responsible cache owners I then ask, how much harm would come to a travel bug if brought to a cache prison under these terms?

1.7k · July 22, 2003

I read all of that the first time. I still don't understand how you could possibly think that it's a good idea. If you want to reward the kids for finding the cache, do it by - here's a revolutionary idea - putting stuff in the cache that they'll want to find. Do kids really get off on travel bugs or something? If so, this is the first I've heard of it, and I actually cache with a kid.

pirate.cgi.gif

July 22, 2003

Hey I just read your last post, had to look at your profile...your rather cute there warm fuzzies! single?

and yes my kids LOVE travel bugs, and the problem in this area is that there have been times when we go through all the steps to find a cache and when we open it there is a golf ball and a beer token...not excitement to be sure. I have learned to trade up! just so that on my part I can make sure that the next kid that comes along will be happy with their find. ....ok so now that I have gotten off the track....................

July 22, 2003

I just took a look at the Bug link that enfanta links to in the post above. What happened to that bug is not what we are proposing. Any bugs that end up in the "prison" that we make will be logged. In other words if some one "kidnaps" a bug and places it in prison we would make sure that the bug gets logged ASAP.

I think the main point that we am hoping people will notice is that OUR idea is an attempt to make geocaching more fun for kids. The reason we came up with this is becase Heart_of_CG has five of her own and this is a nice inexpensive way to entertain the kids, get away from video games and TV, and get them into nature. Also, the way we are thinking of taking this idea will teach Heart's kids responsibility for taking good care of a cache AND help raise the next generation of geocachers.

I think maybe calling it a prison will be seriously reconcidered. Maybe a Travel Bug resort-hotel where visiting Travel Bugs (even those brought in wearing handcuffs) can have adventures with other travel bugs. Travel bugs with a personality and a story are the most fun, and this would be one more stage on the journey. How boring this sport would become if all Travel Bugs simply went from origin to destination without picking up a few stories on the way. For an example please see: Sharkie the Whale

I had Sharkie for a little while and really enjoyed adding to his story. I hope that when we release our TBs (planning on 8 very soon) that they will have many stories to tell.

1k · July 22, 2003

My question would be, why call it a travelbug prison instead of a travelbug hotel? Unless the placement was somewhere near an actual prison, so that it could be part of the theme, I don't see the point in it.

The same amount of fun could be derived for the little ones by having a travelbug resort, yet it wouldn't promote the idea of 'capturing' a travelbug and holding on to it.

And yes, I read your post, and realize that it is not your intention. I still say, give it a positive spin, and people will love the idea. How about the Travelbug Vacation Destination - rest your weary travelbugs here...

-Junglehair

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

July 22, 2003

I think it's a good idea, too. Sure, 4 year olds want Mc-toys, but lets face it, older kids could care less about a Burger King Minnie Mouse bobble head! As long as you actually do as you say you're going to by moving any "extended stay" bugs, I say go for it!

I think some people just get huffy when you use the words...Prison, and Travel Bugs in the same sentence.

OG

Prophetically Challenged (or is that Pathetically?)

July 22, 2003

Thank You JungleHair......... You hit the tone of which we have been talking about. Thank you so much for the better term to be used. We just couldnt think of anything but the word prison. I think that you have summed up the essence of what we were talking about in the first place. "Travelbug Vacation Destination - rest your weary travelbugs here..." I think that is a perfect way to explain this. We even thought that we could "decorate the cache depending on the season" We could even call the cache "Calling all travel bugs" It would be nice to have our cache as a destination for travel bugs to go and visit. All the while being maintained by children, followed by children and teaching them responsible geocaching habits. Thank you for such a positive post!

4.8k · July 22, 2003

quote:
And yes, I read your post, and realize that it is not your intention. I still say, give it a positive spin, and people will love the idea. How about the Travelbug Vacation Destination - rest your weary travelbugs here...

I'm with junglehair. *Prison* sounds too negative and could freak out owners, while a positive term is just fine. There are plenty of TB hotels etc. out there and people like them.

3.8k · July 22, 2003

How about "Travelbug Detox Center" for bugs (and cachers) addicted to geocaching?

============="If it feels good...do it"==============

**(the other 9 out of 10 voices in my head say: "Don't do it.")

.

24.7k · July 22, 2003

Once you read it the idea is no any different than any other cache. Any TB can end up in any cache at any time. It's actually more creative than the Travel Bug Hotels that are cropping up. Their theme is "Too Lazy to help the bug drop it off here and be done with it"

In short, no harm, no foul, no problem.

July 22, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:
Their theme is "Too Lazy to help the bug drop it off here and be done with it"

Good point RK. But a friend did find a good reason to use a TB depot: He's going to Hawaii sometime soon and found a TB that looks to go to Hawaii, but he doesn't want to just sit on the Bug until then. So he dropped it off in a TB depot, so if someone else wants to take it to Hawaii, great. But if not it will likely sit there until he re-retrives it because for Bug hunters, there's plenty of other bugs in the depot to choose from. May not work as planned, but it's not a bad idea.

Team Kender - "The Sun is coming up!" "No, the horizon is going down."

1k · July 22, 2003

''Calling all Travelbugs''... I like it! Let's see, Blairsville PA is only about 300 miles from Rochester NY - I might have to drive down and check it out after you set it up.

Now where did Sept1c_tank say that Detox Center for Geocachers was? I wonder how long the waiting list is to get in there.

-Junglehair

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

July 22, 2003

Here you go....... I am sitting here reading the posts and listening in the background to my daughter talk to Caspian on the phone making arrangements on his upcomming visit. Geocaching now has been the topic for the last 15 minutes and her excitement is growing as she talks about the travel bugs we currently have. As far as I hear, his entire trip will be planned around the caches we can hit while he is here, not what we can do, but the caches we can do. Now this is what its all about in my book! While he is out here we will plan our retreat center for travel bugs! I cant wait to see the excitement when the kids can finally feel ownership towards their own cache!

To cache or not to cache...is there a question?

1.4k · July 22, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Caspian of CG:

The cache would be placed in a friendly terrain but the difficulty of finding it would be high and require logic and puzzle solving skills (a multi cache for sure.

quote:
Originally posted by Heart_of_CG:

This would not be a difficult cache. It would be a 1 difficulity perhaps 2 ( on a childs thinking scale) and a terrain of 1.

We're getting conflicting information about the proposed cache.

I think a cache like this is OK, as long as the difficulty is fairly low. A lot of TB owners get really upset when their TBs get logged into difficult caches.

Also, I'd like to discourage you from detouring TBs from their published goals. For example, if a TB has a goal of heading west, please don't grab any TBs that are already west of your cache and bring them east. Some TBs have very specific goals, and their owners can get upset when someone intentionally disregards those goals.

24.7k · July 22, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team Kender:
Good point RK. But a friend _did_ find a good reason to use a TB depot:...

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not opposed to TB Hotels in the least. I was just using them as an example to give a thumbs up to a TB Prison since it sounded like a more creative version of the TB Hotel. The hotels do have their place. Heck I've pondered using a locker at an airport for one, but the key problem is getting in the way.

My original take on the prison was similar to what they do during Golden Days in Fairbanks. They have a traveling jail. You can pay to have a friend 'arrested' and your friend has to post bail to get out. All the funds go to charity. Naturally there was a way out for cheapskates.

1.2k · July 22, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Heart_of_CG:
Here you go....... I am sitting here reading the posts and listening in the background to my daughter talk to Caspian on the phone making arrangements on his upcomming visit. Geocaching now has been the topic for the last 15 minutes and her excitement is growing as she talks about the travel bugs we currently have. As far as I hear, his entire trip will be planned around the caches we can hit while he is here, not what we can do, but the caches we can do. Now this is what its all about in my book! While he is out here we will plan our retreat center for travel bugs! I cant wait to see the excitement when the kids can finally feel ownership towards their own cache!

To cache or not to cache...is there a question?

Well, in my very humble opinion, without people thinking of new ways to enjoy our little sport, even just variations on a theme (travelbug hotels, etc), this game just becomes hunting tupperware.... I like the innovative spirit and positive outlook you have toward creating something kids would enjoy as I cache mostly with my kids, and enjoy their enjoyment...lol. Don't let anyone discourage your search for a different way to do things, its what keeps things interesting as far I I am concerned. Anybody can find a cache, it's not that difficult, but coming up with new ideas, that is hard. Go for it.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

July 22, 2003

There's a new one in my area called a travel bug prison. It is also a member's only cache, so you can't look to see what bugs are in it unless you're paid up....

1.2k · July 22, 2003

Duplicate post....

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

[This message was edited by Breaktrack on July 22, 2003 at 08:05 PM.]

July 22, 2003

Here are some Travel Bug Destinations...

______________________________________________ Kanto

July 22, 2003

Hey Kanto, thank you for the information. We are really enjoying the planning phase of this cache. We are even thinking of having the cache container change with the seasons and holidays. I very much agree with Breaktracks comment that we do need to look for variations on how this game/sport can allow for creativity. From a lot of the cache logs I have read it obvious that children are becoming very able and excited particpants. The ideas are perculating, so be ready because we intend on placing this cache within the next two weeks!

Keep those ideas coming, they really help.

July 22, 2003

Yes ~points to Caspain~ What he said!

To cache or not to cache...is there a question?

July 22, 2003

There is a travel bug prison in NW Arkansas called the Infamous Travel Bug Prison. I haven't seen a reference to it in this thread, so I thought I'd bring it up. It is in an fairly difficult place and the person who keeps sticking travel bugs in there doesn't log them so people end up losing bugs.

There was a rather ugly thread about it a way back.

I don't mind the concept of a prison, so long as I know my bug is there and I have some way to break it out.

-E

--

N35°32.981 W98°34.631

3k · July 23, 2003

My Cannonball Run Travel Bug is missing. I think I will cry. If it were being held prisoner I would be mad. What are the charges? Why no fair trial? AND DID YOU READ THE INSTRUCtIONS AND GOALS OF THIS BUG BEFORE YOU SO RUDELY TOOK IT PRISONER? See, that's what I think it boils down to. What are the goals of the bug? The reason I met doggny was to hand off an angel travel bug he was going to take to Florida to fulfill it's goal. The bug was in memory of someone's mom. Dboggny got it just miles from it's final goal which was a certain cache in Florida. The next person to pick it up took it to East Bumchuck, Minnesota or something way far away from it's mission in life. And they didn't make mention or log it for months. I felt very bad about that. It still isn't back on track. I think the goal of the bug should be taken into consideration. Just look how mad folks are in this thread: thread 1 or thread 2 or thread 3 or thread 4 I could go on and on, but you can see how people feel about their bugs. Let the kids find cool toys instead. I had two kids out caching yesterday 5 and 7 years old. They loved the whole experience. I don't think they need to involve Travel Bugs in their games. I think the fun is in the hunt. And that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Cache you later,

Planet

So many caches, so little time.

[This message was edited by Planet on July 23, 2003 at 09:03 AM.]

4.8k · July 23, 2003

quote:
My Cannonball Run Travel Bug is missing. I think I will cry.

I think mine is gone too.

July 23, 2003

~throws hands in the air~

I swear I am innocent!!!!!!!!!! I have plenty of people who can vouch for my where abouts for the last month or so. I have only 2 bugs legit ones just waiting to go to their destinations. I am waiting for the weather to clear up to head one east bound and Caspian to visit to take the other out towards Alaska. Honest I am innocent ~adjusts halo~ see ~points~

And yes I agree with you although we are discussion creating a bug prison or resort or whatever you want to call it (and for me I like detox center ha ha ha) ( or maybe a bug bar?!!! ok I will behave) I would never encourage people taking a bug without knowing that you can help it achieve its mission in life. Nor would I encourage bugs just sitting there and being stuck going no where.

( I hope that I am making sense my head is fuzzy...ha ha ha I am too busy planning on my caches for the day with the kids after getting work done IS IT NOT FINISHED YET???? I NEED TO GO CACHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

To cache or not to cache...is there a question?

1.7k · July 23, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Hearts_of_CG:
Honest I am innocent ~adjusts halo~ see ~points~

Yeah, when you adjust your halo, I do see the points. That explains it.

I'm still confused, though. This cache is for other people's kids, I assume, rather than your own. So stocking it with things your kids find fun but other kids seem to have problems with might be the wrong approach. It seems to be a fairly common belief among bug owners that one of the primary causes of disappearing bugs is their appropriation as toys by kids who don't know better (and who aren't being watched closely enough as they trade.) Putting the bugs in harm's way like that still seems ever-so-slightly irresponsible, but I'm probably overreacting.

Oh, and I'm not single. But you made my day.

pirate.cgi.gif

July 28, 2003

Just to inform you that the other thread has been updated with the news about The Warden.

Other Thread

_____________________________

... where is it?

July 28, 2003

Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies:

quote:
How on earth could this possibly be considered a good idea? I'm all for hard caches - I've placed a few of my own - but I go out of my way to not put bugs in them. I've had a bug or two end up in a difficult cache in the @ss-end of nowhere, and it's not fun. I'd suggest that, to avoid p!ssing off bug owners, you should at least get their permission before sticking their bug in a cache that you know it'll have trouble getting back out of.

I mean, come on, just go read the TB forum. People there get panicky if you just hold on to their bug for more than a week. Deliberately putting it somewhere where it won't move is just not nice.

YEAH, WHAT HE SAID.

_______________________________

Ever consider what our dogs must think of us? I mean, here we come back from a grocery store with the most amazing haul -- chicken, pork, half a cow. They must think we're the greatest hunters on earth!

http://www.geocities.com/cacheinon

2.7k · July 28, 2003

Reply to several points above:

1. How do you know when you drop off a bug how long it is going to be before someone picks it up- IN ANY CACHE? You might put it in a 5/5 scuba cache in a cave and someone might pick it up an hour later. You might put it in a 1/1 handicap accessible drive-up window cache in Wal-Mart and the whole cache might disappear the next day. You don't know for sure that ANY CACHE will still be around tomorrow. (or that u or i will but thats another matter)

2. If tb owners get upset when they get off track they need to get over it. At best, you are putting your property in the hands of an unknown stranger, or many of them. That a bug travels at all should be considered one of the miraculous aspects of a game where you abandon property in a public place and advertise its location on the internet for anyone in the world to see. Every move the tb makes has the risk of being its last. That's the nature of the game. You know the risk when you play. If you didn't know that you do now.

3. Tb's are meant to travel, but not directly to their goals. The wandering and meandering is part of the fun of it- to see the wayward wanderer finally make its destination after visiting Tmbuktu and all points East. It is sort of like the wanderings of Billy in "The Family Circus".

4. If you want your bug to go directly to its destination, save the five bucks you would have spent on the tag and place it in the large blue cache down at the corner with an appropriate postage stamp prominently affixed to the upper right corner.

5. It is a game!!!!

6. If your bug gets put in a cache that you don't like, email the cache owner and ask them to move it. Most will. The starter of this thread seems to indicate a willingness to do so.

7. So, what's the problem with simply another cache that just happens to be called "prison"?

8. What do you think of this idea: "Travel Bug HELL"? Nothing different from any ordinary cache, just that it will be all red and have horns on the lid. Sure wouldn't want my tb to go there. Reckon I'll get a cloud shaped container and make it TB Heaven instead- and put it on a very narrow path that few can find.

Oh, and BTW, when a bug gets to either one, its mission is over.

Caint never did nothing.

GDAE, Dave

[This message was edited by ChurchCampDave on July 28, 2003 at 09:58 PM.]

2.3k · July 29, 2003

There's another outside NYC called "Kissena Travel Bug Resort & Spa" that I fear will be moved soon... everyone who finds it recently says it's right out there to be seen, if you know where to look.

quote:
Originally posted by Kanto:
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?key=Travel+Bug+INN are some Travel Bug Destinations...

______________________________________________ _Kanto_

Joel (joefrog)

"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for ye are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!"

When is a prison not a prison. (or) Not MY travel bug!

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