thcri Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Looking up for directions to a Minnesota State Park I find the following statement, "Geocaching prohibited in the Minnesota State Parks Due to concerns related to natural resource protection, visitor safety, staff workloads and liability, geocaches are not permitted on lands administered by the Minnesota State Park System. Any geocaches found will be considered abandoned property." I also noticed that there was a Geocach that the DNR did find and take away. It seems to me that the State of Minnesota is trying to abandon everything in State Parks. It won't be long and no one will be coming to their parks?? I bought a stamp this year for the first time in ten years so I could do some Geocaching. murph Quote Link to comment
Northern-Lights Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 There has to be some give and take with this. I understand the potential headaches this activity might cause them....but it almost always does not actually come about. I think you should start a dialog with them about it. If God is your co-pilot, it's time to change seats!!! http://www.mi-geocaching.org/ Quote Link to comment
Kanto Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 I assume Letterboxing has been around longer than Geocaching. Has Letterboxing taken as much flak as Geocaching seems to have? ______________________________________________ Kanto Quote Link to comment
+Kouros Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Kanto:I assume Letterboxing has been around longer than Geocaching. Letterboxing has been around far longer than caching - almost a hundred and fifty years longer. You can read up on its history here. quote:Has Letterboxing taken as much flak as Geocaching seems to have? Letterboxing tends to get more criticism than Geocaching from those concerned about the impact it has upon the countryside, as there are no databases that actively record the locations of all the boxes - there are some that record a number of them, but not all. There are no guidelines like we have on GC.com (apart from the hiders common sense), and some boxes have been known to have been buried - a big no no in the caching circle. There are numerous differences between caching and letterboxing, apart from the obvious. Due to the nature of clues being used as a means to hunt the box, Ammo boxes are frowned upon - this stems from the game originating in Dartmoor, where the British miltary carry out many practices, and to prevent an intrepid boxer from opening a live ammo container. There are no official bodies that represent Letterboxing - although the 100 Club does assist in promoting environmental awareness while letterboxing - it is worth being aware, however, that in order to join 100 Club, you must first find 100 letterboxes. But some of the criticisms levelled at Geocaching were never a problem for letterboxing. Because letterboxing was often spread through word of mouth, it was never made the concern of authorities. Ironically, because Geocaching gives that information for the entire world to see, it is criticised for precisely the same activity. Unfair, perhaps, but such is life. You might be interested to know that Dartmoor, the home of Letterboxing, officially recognises that pastime but as yet does not extend that recognition to Geocaching. ------ An it harm none, do what ye will [This message was edited by Kouros on August 02, 2003 at 07:00 AM.] Quote Link to comment
+Lone Duck Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 This is common in many states, not just Minnesota. Lone Duck The Quack Cacher http://www.netwalk.com/~jporter/BackPage.htm Quote Link to comment
+Cheval Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Lone Duck:This is common in many states, not just Minnesota. But due to the excellent work of certain cachers (JoGPS and Tennessee Geocacher, to name a couple), this is NOT the case in Arkansas and hopefully won't be the case in Tennessee. Cheval To finish is to win. www.aerc.org Quote Link to comment
+CharlieP Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 quote:Originally posted by thcri:Looking up for directions to a Minnesota State Park I find the following statement, "Geocaching prohibited in the Minnesota State Parks Due to concerns related to natural resource protection, visitor safety, staff workloads and liability, geocaches are not permitted on lands administered by the Minnesota State Park System. Any geocaches found will be considered abandoned property." I have a more effective policy for the MSP administration: =================================== People prohibited in the Minnesota State Parks Due to concerns related to natural resource protection, visitor safety, staff workloads and liability, people are not permitted on lands administered by the Minnesota State Park System. Any people found will be considered trespassers. ===================================== Sorry, I just could not resist. But that is the irony of their position, it could apply to any activity. FWIW, CharlieP Quote Link to comment
+RJFerret Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 quote:Originally posted by thcri:I bought a stamp this year for the first time in ten years so I could do some Geocaching. Which provides you with a great opportunity, write the authorities that you bought the stamp for the first time because of Geocaching, have now learned they prohibit it and demand a refund! Suggest they should advertise such before taking peoples money, and you won't buy anything in the future until they change the policy. You can continue with, "I'm surprised such a low-impact, non-invasive activity that so strongly promotes ecological awareness is restricted. Staff involvement is non-existant and liability is no different than hiking." If you hit 'em in the wallet (their BIGGEST concern), they'll come around, particularly if you get a letter-writing campaign going in your state. As geocaching grows, such campaigns will become significant. Hope this helps, Randy PS: At the very least, write the letter, without any feedback they won't know anythings wrong (and a phonecall/email is soon forgotten). Quote Link to comment
+TEAM 360 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 quote:Originally posted by RJFerret: quote:Originally posted by thcri:I bought a stamp this year for the first time in ten years so I could do some Geocaching. Which provides you with a great opportunity, write the authorities that you bought the stamp for the first time because of Geocaching, have now learned they prohibit it and demand a refund! PS: At the very least, write the letter, without any feedback they won't know anythings wrong (and a phonecall/email is soon forgotten). I completely agree. Get your refund, and let them know WHY. Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 i just whipped off a little message to the MN DNR. it goes like this: it has come to my attention that the DNR does not allow geocaching in MN. it's a popular low impact activty and a big favorite with me. when i vacation, i expect to do two things: ride bicycles and geocache. because MN does not allow one, i will be taking my bicycle vacations in others states. my friends (who also hunt and fish) will do likewise. we can buy licenses in states that support our other interests. it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six. Quote Link to comment
+The GeoGadgets Team Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 I'm going to play devil's advocate here: What if there were no controls on where Geocaches were placed in National or State Parks? As an example, there is a cache here locally (no I won't list the cache link - it is a sensitive topic here) that was placed within the confines of a State Park-operated Biological Preserve. Any visitor to this park is immediately informed by the use of well-written signs that they should NOT leave the trail, and that this a delicate eco-system, loaded with plants that are not usually found in this specific area. To leave the trail and stomp through the brush disturbs and could damage this sensitive system. The cache in question is well off of the trail, and geocachers searching for it - also ignoring the warnings in order to satisfy their urge to find the treasure - have trampled every living thing on either side of the trail. A recent visit to this Park showed extensive damage that was so obviously made by people leaving the trail. To me, this proves that normally eco-minded and considerate people are destroying the environment in their desire to find the geocache. There are PLENTY of places outside of the Park system that still highlight the beauty and unique qualities of the area that do not involve tromping around in protected spaces. Why couldn't the cache placers considered one of those spots? Probably because it was easier to place a cache in a spot that was well-visited and had a pre-existing trail system. Oh well. Without limits Geocache placers have drilled holes in trees to hide caches and placed caches on the private property of others. It is a matter of responsibility and respect. Their are distinct guidelines on the Main Geocaching.com pages outlining where to and not to place a cache. Folks who ignore those guidelines and fail to ask permission to place caches on taxpayer maintained property are only asking to be treated in a sense as criminals who ignore the law. There are a thousand ways to place a cache within the guidelines compared to the few who ruin it for the rest of us. How much red would a redwood red if a redwood could red wood? Quote Link to comment
Clown Knife Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 I can sum this up with one word....LAWYERS! Folks in American will sue anyone for anything at anytime at the drop of a hat. The state parks are just trying to protect themselves from litigious (sp) idiots in my opinion. Just imagine someone falling over a cliff or into a ravine or stepping in a gopher hole and breaking their ankle or worse. Well...it must be the fault of the park where the geocache is located because the park did not take the responsibily to protect me from myself; therefore I will sue for 20 million dollars! Unfortunate for those of us who do take responsibility for our actions and enjoy the sport. (Sigh!) Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 quote:Originally posted by thcri:Looking up for directions to a Minnesota State Park I find the following statement, "Geocaching prohibited in the Minnesota State Parks Due to concerns related to natural resource protection, visitor safety, staff workloads and liability, geocaches are not permitted on lands administered by the Minnesota State Park System. Any geocaches found will be considered abandoned property." I also noticed that there was a Geocach that the DNR did find and take away. It seems to me that the State of Minnesota is trying to abandon everything in State Parks. It won't be long and no one will be coming to their parks?? I bought a stamp this year for the first time in ten years so I could do some Geocaching. murph Write the governer. "We travel and spend $$ geocaching, It's good for the economy, to have parks ban geocaching instead of allowing it is a damper on the state economy". You guys have a huge deficit to deal with. That should get their attention. Write a few state sentaors and/or legaslators too. Quote Link to comment
+Lone Duck Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 quote:Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team: The cache in question is well off of the trail, and geocachers searching for it - also ignoring the warnings in order to satisfy their urge to find the treasure - have trampled every living thing on either side of the trail. A recent visit to this Park showed extensive damage that was so obviously made by people leaving the trail. If damage is being done because of the placement of a cache, then that cache should be archived. Lone Duck The Quack Cacher http://www.netwalk.com/~jporter/BackPage.htm Quote Link to comment
+mtn-man Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Actually, this has been the MN State Parks Policy for some time. This is covered on the MN Geocaching Association web site: http://www.mngca.org/hiding.asp quote:Minnesota State Parks The Department of Natural Resources has prohibited geocaching in Minnesota State Parks at this time, citing concerns related to natural resource protection, visitor safety, staff workloads and liability. They have asked that geocachers remove their caches as of July 1, 2002. We have been contacted by the DNR and are currently opening dialog on the development of policy that will make Geocaching an activity that will benefit both parks and geocachers. As you can see, this is well over a year old at this time. It is good to stay in touch with local guidelines if you are going to hide a cache. Asking for permission will head off potential troubles and the problems of having to go back and get an incorrectly placed cache. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 quote: hat if there were no controls on where Geocaches were placed in National or State Parks?As an example, there is a cache here locally (no I won't list the cache link - it is a sensitive topic here) that was placed within the confines of a State Park-operated Biological Preserve. Any visitor to this park is immediately informed by the use of well-written signs that they should NOT leave the trail, and that this a delicate eco-system, loaded with plants that are not usually found in this specific area. To leave the trail and stomp through the brush disturbs and could damage this sensitive system. The cache in question is well off of the trail, and geocachers searching for it - also ignoring the warnings in order to satisfy their urge to find the treasure - have trampled every living thing on either side of the trail. A recent visit to this Park showed extensive damage that was so obviously made by people leaving the trail. The vast majority of caches I've found and I'm sure the vast majority of caches, are placed responsibily. Of course some aren't. Instead of using this one as an examply of why geocaching should be regulated or banned, you should have requested that it be archived. Then it could have been an example of how geocaching is a self-policing sport, where irresponsibly placed caches are dealt with promptly. "Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 quote:Geocaching prohibited in the Minnesota State Parks Sounds like a challenge to me... http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/ Quote Link to comment
DocJ Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 I concur, Criminal. "Fear succeeds crime - it is punishment." - Voltaire Quote Link to comment
+mtn-man Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Criminal:Sounds like a challenge to me... We overcame the ban here in GA with a lot of hard work. We have lots of restrictions, but we are making progress. It can happen, so don't ever give up. Quote Link to comment
+Moe the Sleaze Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 The MNGCA has been working with the Minnesota DNR and we expect to have a new geocaching policy allowing caches within state parks very soon. Quote Link to comment
+rickrich Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 I'm pretty sure I heard at the recent MnGCA Summer Fling that the MN DNR would have a geocaching policy out sometime this fall. A year and a half is pretty good response time from the MN DNR. We are still waiting for a determination on whether we can use the Sonar aquacide in our lake to knock out the Eurasian Watermilfoil, and that study has been going on for 10 years now (meanwhile, we dump far nastier chemicals in, and get less control, but I digress). I thought the DNR would milk this geocaching thing for 10 years of funding in order to "study" it, and *then* continue to ban it anyway. Glad it looks like I will be wrong. But who knows until the policy is actually published. So it can't hurt to tell send your thoughts. Quote Link to comment
+rickrich Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Hmm, looks like my response crossed in the mail with Moe's. I defer to Moe for the definitive status. But what I want to know is why Moe isn't out right now getting FTF on the cache I just placed!!!!!! Quote Link to comment
Dru Morgan Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 That's why I don't take my kids to Minnesota. If you are going to keep condems in a cache, then I'll stay here in California where it is safe. Ever notice how anyone that caches more than you do is a maniac, while anyone that caches less than you do is an idiot? -Dru Morgan Quote Link to comment
+Mudfrog Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 quote:quote:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team: The cache in question is well off of the trail, and geocachers searching for it - also ignoring the warnings in order to satisfy their urge to find the treasure - have trampled every living thing on either side of the trail. A recent visit to this Park showed extensive damage that was so obviously made by people leaving the trail. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If damage is being done because of the placement of a cache, then that cache should be archived. Lone Duck The Quack Cacher Agreed, this doesnt sound like a sensitive subject at all. That cache should be archived ASAP! Here in Texas, geocachers are welcome in our State Parks. Not only to hide and search,(should still let park personnel know when hiding), but to also stage fun events. We have allways been invited back! Quote Link to comment
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