RINO 120 Hacking?

[Monkey Hammer]

Hi.

 

Has anybody "hacked" the RINO 120 software (or any other GPS units for that matter)?

 

What I am wondering is if it is possible to reprogram the radio feature for different power outputs and for different frequencies. I do know the FCC regs and rules, but I am curios as to if this is possible.

 

Specific questions:

 

Is it possible to reprogram the RINO for non FRS/GMRS frequencies, say for a higher band licensed frequency?

 

Is it possible to reprogram the RINO to transmit at a higher output power in the FRS/GMRS bands?

 

Is it possible to reprogram the RINO to transmit GPS data on the GMRS frequencies?

 

I work with a licenced high band network, we would like to use our licenced frequencies with the RINOs at a higher output power then FRS (or GMRS for that Matter). This would be an extreamly beneficial system, our licneced frequencies and the RINO PTP positioning.

 

I dont mean to offend those that are rule book purists, I am just curious as to if it is possible, or if anybody has done it already.

 

I realy hope that Garmin comes out with a more capable and more programable RINO type device.

 

Thanks

[+nincehelser]

It's highly doubtful.

 

I'm sure you could hack a few things, but it's unlikely the RINO can be programmed to transmit on any arbitrary frequency and power. The hardware just wasn't built for that...the antenna itself is a major shortcoming. Most range/frequency modifications probably wouldn't be economical, let alone legal.

 

Audiovox used to market a GPS/radio combo that I think could transmit locations over GMRS, but they didn't have the proper FCC waivers like Garmin, which might be why it was pulled from the market. You can still get them over the Internet for as low as $99, but that doesn't mean they're legal to use.

 

There's a yahoo groups e-mail list for the RINO where some modifications have been discussed. Again, using some of those mods are probably against FCC regulations.

 

George

[McKenna Family]

The FCC is getting smart (finally). They are forcing manufacturers to build the radios in such a way that they cannot be hacked to work other than as they were type accepted for. Not sure if the Rino falls under this or not.

 

You say you work with a High Band network, the rinos run on UHF, so making a change from UHF to VHF High Band is going to be impossible. There are just to many differences in the circuits to be a simple retune.

 

Data is not allowed on GMRS for a reason, as a licenced GMRS user, I ask you, please do not ignore this. There are plenty of leagal ways to do what you want,

 

As was said, simply cranking up the power isn't going to do you a lot of good. The real limitation on these, as well as all FRS radio and most cheap GMRS radios, is the antenna.

 

I don't know of any commercial system that will match the Rino exactly, but if you already have a high band system, there are solutions that will track radios. AVL or automatic vehicle location uses existing radios with GPS receivers to send out the location of the radio. There are even speaker mics with built in GPS receivers that will do this for hand helds.

 

I don't want to come across as condemming you, but if you have a high band system, why not just use that?

 

Patti and Matthew McKenna, Watsonville California

Garmin 72

[Monkey Hammer]

quote:

---

Data is not allowed on GMRS for a reason, as a licenced GMRS user, I ask you, please do not ignore this. There are plenty of leagal ways to do what you want,

---

 

What is that reason? I am curious as to that, also, as mentioned above, the AudioVox GMRS GPS transmits data on GMRS frequencies, so such hardware is available already. I am still waiting to see if the FCC goes after AudioVox because of this.

 

Yes, there are ways to do this with our high band (emergency services) system, but they cost literaly tens thousands of dollars to impliment at this time. Our emergency services in my area do not have this sort of budget, nor will they in the forseeable future.

 

I have to value life safety over regulations, it is my job. If these sort of systems can keep my people safe and help us do our job of protecting the public, I will happily take the heat form the FCC for bending and breaking rules.

 

Not trying to sound upity, just being real.

 

However, it is because of these issues that I do not advertise my name nor that of my jurisdiction, hope you can understand that.

 

quote:

---

I don't know of any commercial system that will match the Rino exactly, but if you already have a high band system, there are solutions that will track radios. AVL or automatic vehicle location uses existing radios with GPS receivers to send out the location of the radio. There are even speaker mics with built in GPS receivers that will do this for hand helds.

---

 

I am pretty sure that these systmes are cost prohibitive at this time.

 

However, if you could, would you post some links to these systems. I am sure I have overlooks a lot of them. There is so much technology out there to sort through that it is easy to miss the obvios.

 

I am intersted in both vehicle tracking systems and the GPS mics you mentioned. I know I have not come across the hand held systems before.

 

But, I dont imagine that they would work like a RINO type system. Peer to Peer position reporting?

 

One other thing to note. We interface with the public on many levels, but communications is one area that is lacking. I am hopeing that we can use FRS/GMRS radios to give us another way to communicate with the public in the event of an emergency.

 

I do realise that there are FCC regulations for FRS/GMRS. There are FCC regulations for just about any form of communication that doesnt involve yelling at the top of your lungs.

 

To be totaly honest, in the event of an emergency, there is not one emergency services worker who is going to pay any atention to a FCC regulation. Priority one is life saftey, that is all that matters. This does get emergency services into hot water at times, but in reality that realy doesnt keep them awake at night.

 

quote:

---

I don't want to come across as condemming you, but if you have a high band system, why not just use that?

---

 

We do and will. As I mentioned above, the high band system I was talking about is with Emergency services. Fire, Search and Rescue, EMS, law enforcment. We are from a rural area with limited budget but no shortage of emergencies, lots of fire, natural disaster, and EMS calls.

 

We are looking into the RINO and AudioVox not as a comunication system, but as a navigation and position reporting system. GPS units first and formost, we have great need of these as it is. A position reporting unit as a very handy second. And a FRS/GMRS radio a distant last. This is only as an emergency back up of the high band radios are not working (and poor back up at that) and as a way to interface with public communications in the event of an emergency.

 

No voice communications would be used unless we were interfaceing with civilians that were useing FRS and GMRS in an emergency situation. All if the inter Emergency Servic communication would be on the high band systems. In the event of an emergency, if the affected party was using GMRS as a means to communicate (FRS range limitations, what have you), I would not hesitate in the slightest to get on that GMRS freq myself and to atemp to assist that party with any means neccearry. The FCC can sue me for that, but as I said, I dont stay awake at night worrying about it.

 

The theoretical SOP for these GPS radios would be a bit like this. The incident comander would call for a position report. Instead of every body calling in (on the high band system) and relaying Lat Long or position descriptions, they would instead key their Rino/AudioVox, not saying anything mind you, to report their position. This would keep the airwaves much more clear of traffic and it would give the incident commander pretty accurate fixes of all his personel within range.

 

There are no dedicated emergency services com systems that can do this right now, at least none to my knowledge. The RiNO and AudioVox seem at this point to be unique.

 

The other benefit of haveing our personel equiped with these units is in search and recue and communications with the public.

 

The RINO units are apparantly cathcing on with youth groups and outdoors sportmen. RINO/GPS tranciever technology could revolutionize search and rescue, makeing out jobs much easier and helping to improve public safety. Many Girl/Boy scout groups are getting RINOs, and there seem to be a lot of hikers and such with them on laynards around their necks.

 

Other notable FRS/GMRS trends are in neiborhood watch and post disaster cooridnation in communties. It is not uncomon for neiborhoods to form watch groups. With FRS/GMRS radios being so aforadable and plentyfull, they are a natural method of communications for these groups. There are a signifcant number of law enforcement agencies that have recognized this and are equiping their units with basic FRS/GMRS radios. This helps them interface and communicate with civilian watc groups and in emergency situations. Obvioulsy it takes planning and organization for this to work, and there are a lot of communities that have invested the time to do so.

 

Again, I am not claiming I have a God given right to pirate the airwaves. What I am saying is that I will do my best to insure the safety of my comrads in the emergency services and to insure the safety of the public we strive to protect.

 

I hope soon that we have our very own big black RINOs to use on our high band frequencies, but I am a bit worried that they will cost 3000$ just like all other emergency service electronics. They realy jack the price up for us, which further burdens our already over streatched budgets. God forbid we ever get to have affordable electronics that are already available to the civilian market. That would just be way to easy...

[able2ru]

Hello, I am also in emergency services. I am also a ham radio operator. I would encourage you to locate and contact hams in your area. These individuals are very qualified to assist you in what you want to do. Many Hams are actively involved in emergency services doing what you ask? Providing communications, frequently in impossible to do situations. They are creative and will find a way to get a call out. For the GPS part, they are probably the forerunners of the RINO with the APRS system. They also can send TV images using slow scan TV signalling. They are a great group of people that will help you do the right thing and stay legal and get even better radio communications help than you could by hacking. That is the ideal, to serve the public, stay legal and safe, and encourage others to help and help them also. Hams are volunteers, so they are also limited with their funds, but they will help and take your nickle for communications farther than you can imagine. Find your local ARES or SATRN or even a local Ham group. If there is not an ARES or SATRN club in your area, you can involve them with local government officials to start one and create a positive support group that you can count on whether it is hurricane, tornado, fire, ice, rain or whatever. They will go and do what the postman won't do.

 

For more information on hams in your area, you can start with WWW.ARRL.ORG. Even you can learn more on the radios and get your own ham license and the world is literally in your microphone.

[+SearchRescueDog]

It's nice to think that you can disregard Federal Law based on the fact that you are operating in "emergency services" (if your buisness if Fire/EMS/LE it is just that routine buisness for your agency). I have worked in Fire, EMS, Search & Rescue, and currently Emergency Management. If you think that the "serving my community" platform will cut it when you violate federal law, you are in for a big suprise. You may want to look into what just happened to the State of Nevada when they decided to install a new radio system (used by the Highway Patrol) and forgot to license the frequencies... They where forced to scrap $14million worth of equipment and re-bid a whole new system or face being fined $10,000/day. If the FCC chose they could make that fine retro-active to the first day that the system was used 3 years ago (almost $11million).

 

The problems with your plan are as follows:

 

-A license is required to use GMRS

-A buisness (your agency) may not obtain license GMRS

-Equipment type accepted for GMRS may not be used in PLMRS bands (High-Band)

 

There are very good reasons for these regulations. If you cant get grant funds (which are bountiful at the moment) then you may want to look at other off the shelf products that provide tracking/reporting such as many cellular service and carriers of the iDEN product line.

[+NutmegsPeople]

As you look into these things, work with the HAMs. Start with a look at what has been done already by a couple of hams looking to integrate the Rino with the APRS system:

 

http://www.hamhud.net/rino-frs.html

 

http://www.radio-active.net.au/web/rino/rinospec.html

 

Nothing 'on the market' that will do what you want, but the HAMs are looking at taking Rino signals and processing them into the existing APRS systems. Also, work with your local HAM operators, I'm sure they would be willing to help out a great deal.

 

Lastly, has anyone approached Garmin and asked if they would be willing to offer a specialized unit for your situation? If you never ask, they'll never make it.