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Magellan Meridian Firmware v4.02 Now Online

alexm

By alexm
in GPS technology and devices

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alexm

+alexm

Posted
Posted

I hope this hasn't already been stated. Meridian firmware updates are now on-line at Magellan's web site

 

From Readme for Meridian Platinum:

 

Software Enhancements and Fixes in Version 4.02:

The unit now supports the MapSend World Wide.

The unit now supports the MapSend Blue Nav.

Added features to show object description on map or database.

Added a feature for the database listing so that it will change the 1st char to the next or previous alphabet if the ZOOMIN or ZOOMOUT key is pressed.

Added "Advanced" NAV Units selection.

Added a "Format Card" option to card utilities.

Added a feature to draw a second line from current position to destination after an "GOTO" or "route" is activated.

Added maximum speed and average speed to navigation data customization options.

Added ability to search nearest to any object.

Fixed problems with waypoint projection with primary datum not set to WGS84

Fixed track history collection bug.

Fix problem with waypoints projection when distances less than 0.10 miles/nm/km.

Added warning messages when trying to save current position to a waypoint before first fix or the fix is 2D in auto mode.

Some improvements were made to map drawing.

 

They don't seem to mention the Power Key Protection, but it's on the setup menu. And apparently the ZOOM IN / ZOOM OUT only works on the internal map POI, not USER data icon_frown.gif.

 

Woohoo!

 

...

alex

 

[This message was edited by alexm on December 19, 2002 at 08:38 PM.]

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phantom4099

+phantom4099

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by mtnsteve:

I don't see the "2 key strokes for off" option we wanted...hope it's in there......

 

Ok, I see you updated your post...thanks, I'll look for it...

 

 

____________________________________________________________

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

 

Its in there, its in the setup area near the bottum. Its called power key.

 

Did they really have to make it more difficult to turn the unit on? I already press the enter button 3 or 4 times.

 

Wyatt W.

 

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.

 

[This message was edited by phantom4099 on December 19, 2002 at 08:58 PM.]

 

[This message was edited by phantom4099 on December 19, 2002 at 10:38 PM.]

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phantom4099

+phantom4099

Posted
Posted

The changeing of the destination line is in a funny place. its located in the map setup, then hit left and choose pos-dest line (updating) and depart-dest line (the way it was). You can also have both on, one will stay where you started it while the other will update.

 

Can't say I much care for the new data base search nearst functions.

 

The projection thing is still a little odd. You have to enter a value like .01 miles, then get off the screen, it will then switch to 52.8, then you can change the value to something in feat.

 

The average speed seems to be speed/time based, and its total time, not just moving time.

 

There is also a setting for nav units that lets you select advanced. and you can select diffrent units (I suppose for you people from the UK).

 

Any one know if the option of "advance leg" was there when you started a back track? It just move up to the next track point.

 

What is the track log collection bug they speal of?

 

Wyatt W.

 

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.

 

[This message was edited by phantom4099 on December 19, 2002 at 11:16 PM.]

 

[This message was edited by phantom4099 on December 19, 2002 at 11:19 PM.]

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phantom4099

+phantom4099

Posted
Posted

another cool feature is if you pan to a waypoint and hit enter it will bring up that way point (and may be others that are really close) and if you hit enter again a screen pops up with the name, the cords, the message, and a choice to edit, goto, or delete it.

 

If you do the same to a street you get the name, cords, and the address range (city, zip, block). then a option to save, goto, and profile. Not sure if I am crazy about this feature since I was used to just pressing it and getting the porfile.

 

Wyatt W.

 

[This message was edited by phantom4099 on December 19, 2002 at 09:30 PM.]

 

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.

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Jamie Z

+Jamie Z

Posted
Posted

Hey Thanks Alex! I'm going to have to download this pretty quick! Sounds like they fixed up some things that I wanted to see.

 

quote:
Originally posted by alexm:

+ The unit now supports the MapSend World Wide.

MapSend World Wide? Huh? Will I be able to load maps for my upcoming trip to Costa Rica?

 

Jamie

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3fros

3fros

Posted
Posted

I E-mailed off the wish list from this thread "Meridian Platinum wish list"to Magellan 10 days ago and it looks like some of the things have been incorporated. My E-mail probably had absolutely nothing to do with it since their changes had to take a while to program and incorporate into the change, so here is the updated list of what is left to change.

 

I'm glad they keep updating the firmware so we can continue to have a better product.

 

Still needed to revise

Done

 

STARTUP SCREEN:

 

1. Personalize setting to add our name, phone number, reward information, or whatever to one of the many startup screens.

 

I know there are programs on the internet to edit my hex file to do this, but I'm not sure I dare do this yet, and I would rather just have the option to do this without uploading files like I can do on my 315.

 

MAP SCREEN:

 

2. Option to use "Rubber band" goto lines.

Rubber band goto lines describe the line that's laid on the map when you mash goto. Magellan's behavior is to draw that line from where you were to where you wanted to be and not where you ARE to where you want to be. I understand this is useful to boaters and pilots but it's quite unhelpful when biking or driving.

 

3. Allow us to turn off the basemap.

 

COMPASS SCREEN:

 

4.a. The option to have the electronic compass turn on/off based on speed & satellite locks.

 

I hate caching with electronic compass on (< 5 mph), getting in the car [> 5mph) and having the darn thing point at the engine.

 

4.b. Or, it would be nice to have a hot-key option for turning the compass on and off so we do not have to go through the menus to do this. For example, on the compass page, just hold down a button (enter button) for a second and it will toggle the compass on and off. By the way, the Garmin Vista has this feature.

 

4.c. Another way to adjust the compass could be to push the menu button when on the compass screen and have a compass orient button option just like the Map Setup button for the map screen.

 

5. The letter T (True), M (Magnetic), or C (Course) should be displayed on the compass screen so the compass mode being used will easily be known.

 

When I click on North Reference it changes all of the compasses to True, but when I click on Setup - Compass Orient it only has the options of "GPS Course" and "Magnetic North" which is confusing and made me believe that the compass screen was the only one still on Magnetic. It should say "Mag/True North" instead of "Magnetic North". I now know how it works, but it could be less confusing.

 

6. Put 4 custom fields in the compass screen (as in all other Magellan units).

 

WAYPOINTS:

 

7. More waypoint icons. Geacaching Treasure box icon, Car icon (where did it go, the 315 has it), trailhead icon, Dock icon. Or better yet, let us users create them by allowing them to be easily uploadable to our firmware or a file on our SD card. We could trade them, and share them with Magellan so they could add them to future models or firmware revisions. Let us also delete the ones we know we'll never use.

 

I know there are programs on the internet to edit my hex file to do this, but I'm not sure I dare do this yet, and I would rather use a program from Magellan to do this.

 

8. Page up/page down in the waypoint list like the 315 does. Maybe left/right keys or in/out keys or could do this. (I can see why Magellan does not have this for POI's).

 

9. A way to search for a user waypoint (keyboard or scroll and type (?))

 

10. When I delete a waypoint the platinum starts over at the top of the list. On my 315 it goes to the very next waypoint which makes it a lot easier to delete multiple waypoints. I don't have to keep scrolling down to get to the next one to delete.

 

PROJECTIONS:

 

11. The ability to do projections in feet.

 

12. Fix/finish waypoint projection.

 

Waypoint projection is known broken in all but WGS84. If you enter, say, .01 miles it will convert that to 52.8 feet but when you go to edtit it it converts that to 52.8 miles. It's related to the issue you raise.

 

ROUTES:

 

13. ETA/ETE to the end of route (not just the next waypoint in the route).

 

TRACKS:

14. Automatic save track to route. This would save the track to the card every so often (500 track points) and would keep doing this going until you no longer need it (I hate it when I have my tracks deleted). This would be easy to do a track back option because it could recall the track from the card when it reaches the 400th to 500th point. But save track to route would be incredibly tricky. You would also need a program that could read the cards data, because it would be difficult to transfer all that trough the GPSr.

 

15. Have an option to set the track resolution to one second. Every 52.8 feet is fine for driving, but to me it is a little lacking when I walk (sometime I like to out line a perimeter of something).

 

MISC:

 

16. Tide tables for given locations like the Garmin 76S has.

 

17. Temperature & air pressure on a Nav Screen and not the hidden screens.

 

18. Total Elevation Gain/Loss (I would like to know my total vertical feet skied).

 

19a. More stats like Max Speed, Avg Speed since the trip was reset, Max vertical rate of change, etc.

 

20. A light Icon. I turned my light on in the daylight and couldn't tell whether I had turned it off or not without covering the screen. We need a light icon to come on when the light is on, just like the 315 has.

 

21. Better MapSend

This is probably more of a MapSend upgrade, but I would like to see the option of copying waypoint/route files directly to the card. Currently, the only way to create a waypoint file is by uploading the waypoints to my Meridian through the serial port and then saving them to the disk.

 

I have several different waypoint files and managing them is a nightmare with the way it works now. I would like to be able to save them through MapSend and then just copy them directly to the card. I would also like the see the MapSend product upgraded considerably, both in accuracy and features.

 

22. Support for those newfangled rechargeable batteries on the guage.

 

23. The odometer was kind of neat to have (along with the trip). But I can live with out this one, I could never bring myself to use the simulator because it would give false readings, and it reset with every update, and I found myself using the simulator to get it back to where I had it (it still takes a long time to put 10,000 to 15,000+(that’s just with a car) miles on it at 999 mph).

 

24. One screen that lets me have 12 or more custom fields.

 

25. A way to shut of just the screen, this would allow me to continue to track satellites, but would increase my battery power (I also use it with a PDA and a laptop, so displaying stuff is not critical-yes I have a cig cable, but the cable for the PDA does not have this option).

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Stunod

+Stunod

Posted
Posted

Very happy to see this update...installing it now as I type!

 

I just checked their site 2 days ago to see if there was any update...I guess I must have checked a little too early.

 

BTW...according to the Meridian yahoo group message board, the MyMeridian customization software DOES NOT work with this new firmware. Now we need to wait for that update.

 

EDIT - As Li'l Boyz Club points out below, MyMeridian DOES work.

 

homer.gif

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."

 

[This message was edited by Stunod on December 20, 2002 at 10:30 AM.]

 

[This message was edited by Stunod on December 20, 2002 at 02:37 PM.]

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geospotter

+geospotter

Posted
Posted

I loaded the new update and was checking out the screens. When I got back to the Satellite screen all of the sat icons were gone. The strength bars were there, but no sats in the sky.

 

Is this a feature or a bug?

 

I am trying to recreate the problem, but I thought I would post this in case someone else runs across it.

 

geospotter

 

UPDATE: I can't seem to recreate the problem.

 

[This message was edited by geospotter on December 20, 2002 at 11:26 AM.]

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Cachetrotters

+Cachetrotters

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by 3fros:

I E-mailed off the wish list from this thread http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=5740990093&m=6610968045to Magellan 10 days ago and it looks like some of the things have been incorporated. My E-mail probably had absolutely nothing to do with it since their changes had to take a while to program and incorporate into the change, so here is the updated list of what is left to change.

_

 

The version date for the Meridian 4.02 is Nov 15, 2002; for the ST Pro version 4.03 it is Dec 13, 2002.

 

Don

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Li'l Boyz Club

Li'l Boyz Club

Posted
Posted

I just used MyMeridian with mine and it seemed to work fine. I think someone posted on the Yahoo groups that the instructions for the power button lock feature would be gone if you update the lawyer screen. Well, I don't need instructions on how to turn it on. If you did want or need instrucions, then just put them on the lawyer screen with MyMeridian. Everything seems to work fine though.

 

Brian

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TeamCNJC

+TeamCNJC

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by geospotter:

I am trying to recreate the problem, but I thought I would post this in case someone else runs across it.

 

geospotter

 

UPDATE: I can't seem to recreate the problem.

 

 

Must be something to do with the almanac - my MeriGold did the same thing, but only during the first 10 minutes or so (outside) after the update. Once I had it on for a while, the sats were there all the time.

 

-Craig/TeamCNJC

 

... Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--

I took off through the thorns, chest high, ...

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gsdvr

+gsdvr

Posted
Posted

Mine did it too and wouldn't get a good lock while it was happening. I shut it down,rebooted and cleared the memory and it seems to ok now with regard to the sat icons.....

 

I have noticed that it is way off on coordinates now though. Went to a cache today that I have been to before where my unit would put me within two feet of it. Today I was 20' off.

 

Came home, marked a couple coordinates around the yard. It would consistantly be right around 20' off.

 

Anyone else seentthis?

 

 

Is this a feature or a bug?

 

I am trying to recreate the problem, but I thought I would post this in case someone else runs across it.

 

geospotter

 

UPDATE: I can't seem to recreate the problem.

 

[This message was edited by geospotter on December 20, 2002 at 11:26 AM.]

 

Gsdvr

Huntsville

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Cracker.

Cracker.

Posted
Posted

As to editing the lawyer screen, I think its just a matter of someone having to hack the .hex file to fix the English part of it....

 

I selected Italian as the language in MyMeridian, did the personalisation and uploaded the firmware.

 

When I turned on the GPS, the lawyer screen was the stock magellan version. So I got to the Setup menu, change the language to Italian, (all the text is now in Italian), then shut it off.

 

When I power it up again, the lawyer screen is now my personalised version, in English... icon_smile.gif

 

Too bad ALL the other text is still Italian... icon_frown.gif

 

In MyMeridian, if you select each language, English is the only one with the shortened text blocks... icon_frown.gif

 

Another thing to note: I noticed with V3.12, there were new waypoint icons. Even an open and a closed "chest", which I thought would be great for caches. With the 4.02 installed, the icons are all back to the old ones... icon_frown.gif

 

Art

 

www.yankeetoys.org

www.BudBuilt.com

http://www.ttora-ne.mainpage.net/

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Jamie Z

+Jamie Z

Posted
Posted

I am uploading mine right now. I'll have to go through the new features, because many of them don't make any sense to me in writing.

 

Also, since this will clear out my custom start-up screen, I think this is a good opportunity to call Magellan and find out about getting my "blue spots" fixed.

 

I'm curious to hear about MapSend World Wide!

 

Jamie

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robertlipe

robertlipe

Posted
Posted

Kudos to Magellan. This update looks like it fixes many of my (admittedly minor) nits with this family of products. Double Kudos if they'll respin the 330 images with the same feature set. After the holidays, I'll have to help some local upgrade their unit to the new code just so I can fondle it. icon_wink.gif

 

quote:
I noticed with V3.12, there were new waypoint icons. Even an open and a closed "chest", which I thought would be great for caches. With the 4.02 installed, the icons are all back to the old ones...

 

Dollars to donuts that wasn't in the official 3.12 firmware, but rather in a modified version of the firmware that you downloaded from the same site you got the lawyer screen editor. They're not quite a matched pair, but folks that know about one tend to know about the other and since you mentioned the Lawyer edits, I'll bet you were running the ones with the changed icon bitmaps.

 

To my knowledge, Magellan has not published a firmware set with "geocaching" optimized icons.

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Jamie Z

+Jamie Z

Posted
Posted

Wow.. I haven't used my GPS but a few minutes after installing 4.02, but this may be as big of an improvement as 3.12 was with the card utilities.

 

I really like this update. Rubberband goto lines! Whoopee! I also love the average speed and highest speed... The maps options are very cool, although I'm not sure how often I'll use 'em.

 

My only complaint (as of right now) is like Wyatt said. Did they have to make it ever MORE difficult to turn on? Now the procedure is

  • Press and Hold Start
  • Press Enter
  • Press Enter
  • Press Enter

 

And when the MapSend WorldWide comes out, I'm very curious to see if it meets my needs.

 

Jamie

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Cracker.

Cracker.

Posted
Posted

quote:
Dollars to donuts that wasn't in the official 3.12 firmware, but rather in a modified version of the firmware that you downloaded from the same site you got the lawyer screen editor. They're not quite a matched pair, but folks that know about one tend to know about the other and since you mentioned the Lawyer edits, I'll bet you were running the ones with the changed icon bitmaps.

 

To my knowledge, Magellan has not published a firmware set with "geocaching" optimized icons.

 

Actually, that could be it.....I think the first thing I did when I got my Green was to personalize the .hex. It came as v3.12, and v3.12 is what I updated, THEN I loaded my waypoints and noticed the icons.....

 

By the way, is it just me, or has that "other" site been down? I havent been able to load it for a couple of days now.... icon_frown.gif

 

Art

 

www.yankeetoys.org

www.BudBuilt.com

http://www.ttora-ne.mainpage.net/

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cachew nut

+cachew nut

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by geospotter:

I loaded the new update and was checking out the screens. When I got back to the Satellite screen all of the sat icons were gone. The strength bars were there, but no sats in the sky.

 

Is this a feature or a bug?

 

I am trying to recreate the problem, but I thought I would post this in case someone else runs across it.

 

geospotter

 

UPDATE: I can't seem to recreate the problem.

 

QUOTE]

 

I saw this as well, but did a "clear memory" as in the instructions. No problems after that.

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dboggny

dboggny

Posted
Posted

after uploading the upgrade, the compass worked like a charm... better then it has in a while. then, after making changes in the menu (e.g. datum and coord things), i went back to the compass screen and it wasnt working. i cleared the memory and it started working again. then, went through that again two times. the last time, i fixed the problem by compass calibrate. i then proceeded to have the same issue with my wife's plat. only, this time, i had to do the update again to get the compass working. after, i changed the settings in her's but with no effect on the compass. any ideas?

 

SR and dboggny.

9372_2600.jpg

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cachew nut

+cachew nut

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by SR & dboggny:

any ideas?

 

I'm just guessing, it's worth nothing but a shot.

1- save all waypoints and routes to the SD card if you have one.

2- do a clear memory, waypoints/routes

3- check that they actually cleared from your database, if not, do it again

4- power down, remove your SD card

5- power up, do a clear all memory

6- power up to first screen, do a firmware update

7- power up and inititialize

8- do a clear all memory, yeah I know you'll initialize again

9- do your setup ie. alarms, datums etc.

10- power down, install SD card

11- power up, choose and load a map from the Sd card

12- load your waypoints from the SD card.

13- go find a cache

I'm only making a wild guess based on something I've seen happen before, so don't get mad if it doesn't work, but it may be worth a try.

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mtnsteve

mtnsteve

Posted
Posted

I had a problem with my compass pointing South instead of North and a sluggish needle (same thing happened when I first got it) and had to go in to "Compass Orient" and change it to GPS Course, then back out to the main screen, then go back and switch it back to Magnetic North again....after that it worked great.

 

I had to the same thing once with v3.12, once, as well.

 

So far I have had no other problems with v4.02...my computer room is at the exact same coord's as before, and the cache down the street still reads 4' away while I'm standing above it.... it's actually about 4'/5' feet down the hill.

 

____________________________________________________________

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

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MACpa

MACpa

Posted
Posted

quote:
I had a problem with my compass pointing South instead of North and a sluggish needle (same thing happened when I first got it) and had to go in to "Compass Orient" and change it to GPS Course, then back out to the main screen, then go back and switch it back to Magnetic North again....after that it worked great.

When I recieved mt platinum back from having the screen replaced (blue spots) my compass did not work (needle only pointed north) I called tech support and he had me change my compass orientation to GPS course for a few minutes then back to Magnetic North to get it working again

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MACpa

MACpa

Posted
Posted

Took my Platinum for a ride today after upgrading to 4.02 yesterday I noticed that the track log leaves a filled triangle of track points (mess of bread crumbs)whenever I make a turn. They do go away when I zoom in or out and leaves the normal track. I tried changing the set up to auto detailed but got the same mess

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mtnsteve

mtnsteve

Posted
Posted

I wish Magellan would release beta's , like Garmin does....perhaps some of these issues could be dealt with in beta rather then in a final release, if these do turn out to be problems.

 

Actually, my upgrade seems to be working rather well....time will tell.

 

____________________________________________________________

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Link to comment
cachew nut

+cachew nut

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by MACpa:

Took my Platinum for a ride today after upgrading to 4.02 yesterday I noticed that the track log leaves a filled triangle of track points (mess of bread crumbs)whenever I make a turn. They do go away when I zoom in or out and leaves the normal track. I tried changing the set up to auto detailed but got the same mess

 

I went out and found 8 caches today with the new firmware. The accuracy seemed to be very good (as before) except for on one cache, which I suspect was probably not averaged well enough, since I had full bars and a nice spread of sattelites. I did experience the mess of breadcrumbs also, and they do go away when changing the zoom level. I also noticed some strange characters appear on the screen when panning to a waypoint, it did this several times at first, but I can't get it to repeat now. The compass seems more sensitive, maybe overly so.

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cachew nut

+cachew nut

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by mtnsteve:

I wish Magellan would release beta's , like Garmin does....perhaps some of these issues could be dealt with in beta rather then in a final release, if these do turn out to be problems.

 

Actually, my upgrade seems to be working rather well....time will tell.

 

 

We all got to beta the 3.12 firmware before the official release by picking up a pre-released version in the yahoo groups. There was no such release on this version though.

Link to comment
leatherman

+leatherman

Posted
Posted

Well when I installed the firmware I was getting great reception in my computer room. The compass worked better. I liked the screens too.

 

I went out today for a cache maintenance. The accuracy was fine. I had my Map330 along for comparison.

 

No gripes yet!

 

geomark8.gif

If you do not extend your expectations unto others, you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do.

Mokita!

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phantom4099

+phantom4099

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by JaegerWolf:

i had a problem getting it to get a 3d lock yesterday in an area that I never had a problem with. I hope something is done. Anyone else have this problem? I posted firmware 3.12 on the yahoo meridian group if anyone wants to revert.

 

It may be something to do with not having a full almanac of data before you headed out. I am willing to bet that it will not happen if you let is set for 15 min in the open (actually takes 12 mins to get a full almanac). WAAS also takes some time the first time that it is used (or the memory is cleared).

 

Wyatt W.

 

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.

Link to comment
Scott Johnson

+Scott Johnson

Posted
Posted

I am also getting the backwards compass readings. None of your suggestions below worked to fix it. Any more ideas?

 

I like the upgrades made in the software. Provided my compass will come back online.

Thanks

 

quote:
Originally posted by mtnsteve:

I had a problem with my compass pointing South instead of North and a sluggish needle (same thing happened when I first got it) and had to go in to "Compass Orient" and change it to GPS Course, then back out to the main screen, then go back and switch it back to Magnetic North again....after that it worked great.

 

I had to the same thing once with v3.12, once, as well.

 

So far I have had no other problems with v4.02...my computer room is at the exact same coord's as before, and the cache down the street still reads 4' away while I'm standing above it.... it's actually about 4'/5' feet down the hill.

 

____________________________________________________________

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

 

Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups.

Link to comment
Ed2002

Ed2002

Posted
Posted

Had the same problem with 3.12. Could only solve it by forcing the Platinum to do a "additional calibration" as mentioned and described in the Suplemental Manual for the Platinum. You have to use the secret menu No 21.

 

Hope this helps, Ed

 

quote:
Originally posted by Scott Johnson:

I am also getting the backwards compass readings. None of your suggestions below worked to fix it. Any more ideas?

 

I like the upgrades made in the software. Provided my compass will come back online.

Thanks

 

quote:
Originally posted by mtnsteve:

I had a problem with my compass pointing South instead of North and a sluggish needle (same thing happened when I first got it) and had to go in to "Compass Orient" and change it to GPS Course, then back out to the main screen, then go back and switch it back to Magnetic North again....after that it worked great.

 

I had to the same thing once with v3.12, once, as well.

 

So far I have had no other problems with v4.02...my computer room is at the exact same coord's as before, and the cache down the street still reads 4' away while I'm standing above it.... it's actually about 4'/5' feet down the hill.

 

____________________________________________________________

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

 

Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups.

Link to comment
leatherman

+leatherman

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Sportcat:

When uploading the firmware to your platinum, did anyone notice that the blue bar on your computer says "mgold 4.02?"

 

Should that not be mplat?

 

The Gold and the Platinum are basically the same aside from the compass and the barometer.

Therefor they use the same update.

 

geomark8.gif

If you do not extend your expectations unto others, you will not be disappointed by the stupid things they do.

Mokita!

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