Garmin Legend vs. Vista and expectations of problems

February 3, 2003

My Legend is just over a year old now. In the month or so before the warranty expired I started experiencing the failure of the glue holding the rubber cover in place when it got warm, as from carrying it in my jeans pocket. I wrote to Garmin at the time, but their only suggestion was to send it in. I was reluctant to do that, as I really enjoy playing this silly game, er, serious pastime.

I've experimented with a couple of different glues, but they don't seem to hold up. I know a cryano glue has been suggested, but I've not been able to locate any. The rubber adhesives I've tried work for a few days, then they just let go. And I've not been able to locate any silicone-based adhesives, either, as Garmin suggested.

Now I've the rubber where the flap covering the data port is torn apart. So I'm holding it together with a rubber band. Not the best solution, but it works. I've written to Garmin yet again to ask about a replacement cover and glue, but have yet to hear back.

So, my questions are:

1) Do you think I can expect to be able to buy a replacement cover, or will my only recourse be to send this unit off and take a little breather from geocaching?

2) Does it make sense to incur a $99 expense to repair it if they tell me that it's now out of warranty, or should I just buy another GPSr?

3) Could I expect to have the same problem should I just buy another Legend and use this one a backup?

4) What if I sprung for a Vista instead? I could use the extra memory, but don't they share the same rubber case design and potential shortcomings? Have many people experienced this problem with their Vistas?

5) Aside from the RAM, do the other features of the Vista, the compass and the altimeter, really make enough of a difference in geocaching to make an upgrade wise? Or do they eat up so much battery life as to be a pest?

I await your collective wisdom. In the meantime, I can continue to cache, with my rubber band-enhanced Legend. I'll just think of it as a racing stripe...

Question for the new millenium: "What if the Hokey Pokey IS really what it's all about?"

1.3k · February 3, 2003

Cyanoacrylate is just plain old super glue found just about anywhere. Silicone adhesives could be found at a hardware store, or a pet store which sells silicone aquarium sealant.

4.5k · February 3, 2003

Take a week off from geocaching and send your unit to Garmin. Write to them and I'm pretty sure they'll do it for nothing under the warranty like they did for me even though it's been a year. Check their site for the email address.

They've experienced a lot of problems with this rubber protector coming off a lot of units. So I think they'll take care of you to maintain customer loyalty. You'll get back a unit that'll be like new. DOn't mess with it yourself. There's special tape under the rubber that keeps it water resistant and you'll probably screw it up not knowing much about it.

Take your girlfriend or wife bowling while you're waiting.

Alan

2.7k · February 3, 2003

I own an eTrex Summit and it's practically lost it's rubber covering. Still works great though. I did try super glue first...thatg didn't work...it stay in place for a day or two than come off. The rubber cement didn't work much better for me. So I just deal with it...if the thing goes down, I'll just upgrade to a Vista. I've had the unit since 2000 so it's almost time to move up.

3k · February 4, 2003

I didn't like the idea of using "super glue" between rubber and the tape strip around my Vista, so I tried "LOCTITE Stik'n Seal" waterproof adhesive. After two months, it seems to be holding up very well.

9.2k · February 4, 2003

Has anyone tried silicone sealant?

February 4, 2003

I service appliances and the adhesive whirlpool includes with a rear drum seal withstands high temps. A dryer runs at about 140 degrees or so and I'd bet this stuff would cure your problem. I have used it on my RV and it still is holding up.

2.3k · February 4, 2003

I used super glue with my first Vista, when the rubber got loose.

But first I had to wash of remains of the old glue with an alcoholic detergent. Otherwise, there is nothing stable for the super glue to attach to.

Second, I did use a super glue that's a flexible verrsion, intended to glue rubber to just about everyting. "Ordinary" super glue gets very stiff, and cracks easily when attached to something as soft as rubber.

Anders

February 5, 2003

The rubber band around my vista tore at the flap so I put some clear silicone under it and it's held up for a few weeks so far. Garmin said they would replace it & update the software ( I've done that already) for $25.00 thats including shipping. Not bad if you can't update your own software.

Ken

2.3k · February 5, 2003

I think the glue falling off is a small issue. Worse is the fact that both of my Vistas have had their displays malfunctioning. The current one lasted only three months. It wasn't any abuse either, since it broke while lying in a hotel room.

So far, Garmin is replacing them under warranty, but...

They say it's very unlikely that one person gets two units that both fail, but to me that probability has been 100% so far. I'll replace the second one for a third in the near future. I'll see what happens to that one.

Anders

February 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:
But first I had to wash of remains of the old glue with an alcoholic detergent.

Anders

Is that something they use to clean alcoholics with, or do you have to buy it directly from an alcoholic?

February 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by niskibum:

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:
But first I had to wash of remains of the old glue with an alcoholic detergent.

Anders

Is that something they use to clean alcoholics with, or do you have to buy it directly from an alcoholic?

I don't think I'd be going out on much of limb by suggesting that Anders' English is probably a heck of a lot better than your Swedish...

February 5, 2003

Well, I decided to go without the Legend for a while, and have sent it off for repair. I'll be trying to track down a few easy caches just with maps until I get my unit back. It is a warranty repair, so I'm only out the cost of postage. I'll let you know how long it takes to get back up and running.

Question for the new millenium: "What if the Hokey Pokey IS really what it's all about?"

February 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cache Canucks:

quote:
Originally posted by niskibum:

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:
But first I had to wash of remains of the old glue with an alcoholic detergent.

Anders

Is that something they use to clean alcoholics with, or do you have to buy it directly from an alcoholic?

I don't think I'd be going out on much of limb by suggesting that Anders' English is probably a heck of a lot better than your Swedish...

http://canflag.ptbcanadian.com/images/animated/provii/ontario1.gif

And I would be willing to bet that his sense of humor is considerably better than yours. Lighten up! Did you miss the smiley face?

February 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by niskibum:
"...And I would be willing to bet that his sense of humor is considerably better than yours. Lighten up! Did you miss the smiley face?..."

'Smiley' or not, you were poking fun at someone who does their very best at communicating in a second language (and a fine job he does of it). To many people, that's akin to mocking someone who speaks with a lisp or some other speech impediment. Even as a light hearted jibe (as I'm sure you meant it), it's just 'bad form'.

Anders makes a significant and valuable contribution to the dialogue in these forums, and I'd hate to see him 'hold back' (if even subconsciously) for fear of not using 'perfect' English syntax ...then again, who of us do?

4.5k · February 5, 2003

Oh Anders can take it. Any guy who dresses his girl friend up in a body suit (wow!) and uses that picture for his avatar got to have a great sense of humor. (Sorry Anders if I blew your cover.)

By the way, what proof is that detergent anyway?

Alan

2.3k · February 5, 2003

Actually, I don't know what proof it is, or how many percent of alcohol (could that be correct, maybe?), as we say here, there is in it. It's called T-Röd, is intended for industrial use only and is therefore treated (starkdenaturerad, whatever that could be in English), to make you vomit very quickly, should you try to drink it anyway.

To keep it away from the alcoholics, that is.

By the way, Caroline isn't my girlfriend (could have lived with that, though ), but I do see her every day anyway. She works in the same building. However, although she is a smart dresser, she's usually not wearing a catsuit at work. I've only seen her in that suit here at work once. But I have asked her, and she didn't mind me using that picture. That may say something about her attitude towards cheering up the life for other people, I think. Personally, I try to live up to similar standards. I don't mind a **** (Gee, now I got censored by the machine too! Tried to write "tihs", but backwards...) if you make fun of my language, pun intended or not, but I would very much appreciate if you don't just laugh, but tell me how it should have been, or I just aint ever gonna learn nothing.

Soooo, what should it have been? Alcohol based detergent, or what?

Anders

[This message was edited by Anders on February 05, 2003 at 11:31 PM.]

February 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cache Canucks:
Even as a light hearted jibe (as I'm sure you meant it), it's just 'bad form'.

And I am sure that you meant that in your opinion it is bad form. I don't remember electing you as the judge of what is good or bad form. Nor are you the forum police. Anders is an intelligent adult, and I am sure he isn't going to let a little joke about something, that for all you know was just a typo, send him running away like a scared rabbit. All this PC junk where everyone is worried about saying anything that might offend someone makes me sick. I think that you have insulted Anders more by suggesting that he could be such a baby as to let such a little thing cause him to stop posting. I know he isn't, and if he wants to make a joke or two about my lisp I'll be laughing right along with him, and then maybe I'll tell him some jokes about Toronto.

2.3k · February 6, 2003

Oh, I forgot, thank you very much for all kind comments about my posts in the thread above. *blushing*

Anders

3k · February 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:
... tell me how it should have been, or I just aint ever gonna learn nothing.

Anders, that should have been "or I just aint never gonna learn nothin."

The "LOCTITE Stik'n Seal" waterproof adhesive and version 3.03B are still working great on my finicky Vista. Before applying the glue, I used denatured alcohol to clean off the remaining glue.

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on February 06, 2003 at 04:25 AM.]

February 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by niskibum:
And I am sure that you meant that in your opinion it is bad form. I don't remember electing you as the judge of what is good or bad form. Nor are you the forum police. Anders is an intelligent adult, and I am sure he isn't going to let a little joke about something, that for all you know was just a typo, send him running away like a scared rabbit. All this PC junk where everyone is worried about saying anything that might offend someone makes me sick. I think that you have insulted Anders more by suggesting that he could be such a baby as to let such a little thing cause him to stop posting. I know he isn't, and if he wants to make a joke or two about my lisp I'll be laughing right along with him, and then maybe I'll tell him some jokes about Toronto.

Sounds to me like you haven't done much travelling outside of places where all you needed to get by was to speak English (born/raised/live in Idaho you say?). Were that not the case, and you had at some point found yourself facing the challenge of using a second language, I'm sure that you would be a bit more appreciative of those who didn't mock your efforts to do so ...even in jest.

It's not a question of being able to take a joke, it's just a question of good manners. If that's lost on you, 'Oh well'.

2.3k · February 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:
Before applying the glue, I used denatured alcohol to clean off the remaining glue.

That's it then. Marketed under the name T-Röd here in Sweden.

It was easy to remove the entire rubber band to be able to clean the band itself and the surface where it's supposed to be. Then I replaced the band, without gluing, to make sure that I got it in the correct position.

Finally, I opened up a little at the edge of the band and injected a few drips of my cyano glue under the band. Not right at the buttons, though.

I had to reglue the flap once, when I accidentially pulled that with more force than I intended.

Anders

3k · February 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:
It was easy to remove the entire rubber band to be able to clean the band itself and the surface where it's supposed to be. Then I replaced the band, without gluing, to make sure that I got it in the correct position.

Finally, I opened up a little at the edge of the band and injected a few drips of my cyano glue under the band. Not right at the buttons, though.

My procedure was almost exactly the same as yours. Although I was conservative with the amount of glue I applied, a small quantity did seep out from under the flap and flow into the grooves the computer/power cable attaches to.

Fortunately, I noticed this and the excess glue was easily removed, but I would caution others to verify that the grooves are free of glue prior to attaching the cable.

February 6, 2003

See below

February 6, 2003

quote:
To many people, that's akin to mocking someone who speaks with a lisp or some other speech impediment. Even as a light hearted jibe (as I'm sure you meant it), it's just 'bad form'.

Oh, quit wearing your panties on your sleeve! Too many folks walk around just WAITING to be offended. Somewhere along the way we have let the minority of pacifier-sucking whiney babies erode our ability to laugh at ourselves and one another. Not every "jab" is meant to hurt.

Look, either learn to play in the yard with the big dogs, or stay on the porch with the puppies.

jeeeezzzee

Counter Fit Cache

...or is it really me

February 6, 2003

see above

3.8k · February 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:
... tell me how it should have been, or I just aint ever gonna learn nothing.

Anders, that should have been "or I just aint _never_ gonna learn _nothin_."

Nope... it should be ".. or I'm never going to learn anything."

Zippo lighter fuel makes an excellent job of cleaning residues off most plactics. Just don't do it by candle light

John

Age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

February 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Counter Fit Cache:
"...Look, either learn to play in the yard with the big dogs, or stay on the porch with the puppies..."

...never mind. If it has to be pointed out to you, chances are you aren't going to 'get it' in the first place.

February 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cache Canucks:
Sounds to me like you haven't done much travelling outside of places where all you needed to get by was to speak English (born/raised/live in Idaho you say?). Were that not the case, and you _had_ at some point found yourself facing the challenge of using a second language, I'm sure that you would be a bit more appreciative of those who didn't mock your efforts to do so ...even in jest.

It's not a question of being able to take a joke, it's just a question of good manners. If that's lost on you, 'Oh well'.

You have got to be one of the most self righteous, assuming, whiners I have seen here. First you assume that Anders is as hypersensitive as yourself and can't take a joke. Then you assume that he can't stick up for himself so you have to butt in and come to his rescue, when it is obvious he doesn't need it. Then you assume that since I was born/raised/live in Idaho that I have never been or lived anywhere else, and that we don't have people from different backgrounds living right here! From what I have seen of it, and that is far more than you think, most of the free world does not share in your morally uptight PC views, and can take a joke without coming unglued. You should check your facts before drawing conclusions about me or others here, don't assume you know everything about someone just by reading their profile.

Anders, I think that alcohol based detergent is what you meant, and if I make a joke about your wording I will try to let you know the correct way in the future, if I know the correct way. I still prefer the way you said it originaly, and plan to use it myself when the opportunity arises because it was funny! But what do I know, I am just a dumb hick from Idaho that has never left my backyard.

February 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by niskibum:
"...You have got to be one of the most self righteous, assuming, whiners I have seen here. First you assume that Anders is as hypersensitive as yourself and can't take a joke. Then you assume that he can't stick up for himself so you have to butt in and come to his rescue, when it is obvious he doesn't need it. Then you assume that since I was born/raised/live in Idaho that I have never been or lived anywhere else, and that we don't have people from different backgrounds living right here! From what I have seen of it, and that is far more than you think, most of the free world does not share in your morally uptight PC views, and can take a joke without coming unglued. You should check your facts before drawing conclusions about me or others here, don't assume you know everything about someone just by reading their profile..."

See my previous post.

('We now return this forum to its regularly scheduled program...')

3k · February 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Pharisee:

Nope... it should be ".. or I'm never going to learn anything."

Yeah, right, John. And the next thing you'll be telling us that colour, flavour, centre and theatre are also correct. You'll probably also try to sneak in that 'kilometer' (or is it kilometre) is pronounced KEE-lo-me-ter instead of kil-LAH-me-tr.

2.3k · February 6, 2003

If it can cool down your feelings a little, I'd like you to know that I'm from Sweden. Swedish men are known to be able to take statements about that we aren't skilled at our work, that our wives are uglu, even that we are bad lovers, as long as you don't critizise how we drive our cars.

I'll most certainly survive whatever you write, but expect that I'll come back with something equivalent, if my language skill allows. Or I'll simply put it in Swedish, he-he.

Where I work, we have an atmosphere that's pretty rough (verbally), so I'm very used to all these jokes. But it's allright, as long as those who give also can take.

Meanwhile, when you were flaming each other in this thread, I've been out and found myself yet another cache, GCCE87. 5-10 centimeters of snow and -12ºC didn't stop me. Maybe some of you ought to go out in similar conditions to cool down a little.

This said by someone from south Sweden, who's never been anywhere else, except for in Norway, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, France, Spain, United Kingdom, Switzerland, Licthenstein, Austria, Morocco, Gibraltar, Australia, Fiji, New Zealand, Tahiti, Canada, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New York, Washington DC, Maryland, Illinois, Missouri, Arizona, Utah, California and Hawaii. Give or take a few...

This said just to proove that I've spoken to a lot of people that spoke the most different accents of any language that I can speak anything of (Swedish, English, German and a little French). I always tell my kids that just try speaking another language as good as you can. Don't bother if it isn't perfect. It doesn't matter if you can't do any better than "I want car road sea driving swimming." If the listener wants to understand, he'll understand. If you practice, you'll get better.

Anders

February 6, 2003

Anders, you do a great job here in communicating and helping out & I understand you just fine. It's a good thing this board isn't in Russian because I wouldn't get very far at all. I was born here in the Los Angeles area (actually East Los Angeles) and have lived here all of my 40 years. English is native to me with Spanish being second on the list (those that live in LA know what I mean).

Anyways, keep up the great participation and communication.

4.5k · February 6, 2003

Anders. She isn't your girlfriend? You mean I have a chance?

By the way "proof" is the amount of alcohol content and is actually twice the percentage. For example, Vodka that 80 proof has 40% alcohol by volume. 100 proof would be 50%, etc.

When I was in the US Air Force many moons ago we use get "blasted" on pay day drinking doubles of Red Heart rum and COke. That rum was 151 proof! Now you know why they called it Red Heart. Anything stronger would require an intravenous. Actually Smirnoff had a 151 proof version too. But when you're drinking like that, you really want to get down and dirty and Smirnoff has a too civilized name!

Cheers.

Alan

2.3k · February 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:
Anders. She isn't your girlfriend? You mean I have a chance?

By the way "proof" is the amount of alcohol content and is actually twice the percentage.

Well, Alan, I went downstairs and asked Caroline, but unfortunately she says she's happy with the boyfriend she does have.

But "If he's so happy with the picture, you ought to send him a bigger one". Now that's talking! Do you prefer that one with her in the catsuit, or shall I just take my camera and go down and take a fresh photo?

Regarding the proof vs. percentage thing, I think that comes from the American habit of bragging about everything. To a nation that invented "whiter than white", it must sound better to say that something is 80 proof, not just 40%.

SergZak, I think Los Angeles is a nice area, but I didn't like the pollution of the air too much when I was there. I've been in LA twice, both in 1991. Compared to Sweden, it was very smelly in the air from all exhaust fumes from the cars. Then, we are only about 9 million people here, in a country that's 1000 miles long.

Anders

3.8k · February 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:
You'll probably also try to sneak in that 'kilometer' (or is it kilometre) is pronounced KEE-lo-me-ter instead of kil-LAH-me-tr.

Either way's fine by me... just don't pronounce it kill-OM-eeter

I can't help it.. honest. My mum (or should it be mom) taught English at a local school

John

Age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

2.3k · February 7, 2003

In most part of Sweden people say SHE-lo-me-ter, although in some areas they say KEE-lo-me-ter.

Anders

February 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:
Swedish men are known to be able to take statements about that we aren't skilled at our work, that our wives are uglu, even that we are bad lovers, as long as you don't critizise how we drive our cars.Anders

Now I am troubled. I have never heard a joke about ugli Swedish wives. I had been led to believe that all Swedish women were tall, beautiful, blonde, well endowed, young women with a penchant for American guys drinking beer, and that always wear bikinis with high heels. I hope you are not suggesting that the beer advertisments have been lying to us, especially after I have been saving all the money from my "Idaho piggy bank" (a garbage can where we throw our beer cans for recycling) for a trip to Sweden with a suitcase full of beer and trojans.

February 7, 2003

If I have in any way in my previous post offended anyone anywhere including, but not limited to...

Swedish people, Swedish women, non Swedish people or women, people with garbage cans, people from Idaho with garbage cans, people from Idaho without garbage cans, hyper-sensitive Canadians, women from Sweden that wear bikinis, men from Sweden that wear bikinis, beer companies, Trojan, people who recycle, the Swedish bikini team, etc, etc, I am truly sorry.

2.3k · February 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by niskibum:
I had been led to believe that all Swedish women ... always wear bikinis with high heels.

I've seen many different kinds of bikinis, from the smallest thongs to the biggest tents, but would you please post a picture of these high-heeled bikinis! I've engaged the whole team of designers where I work, armed with 3D CAD systems and a bunch of GHz worth of computing power, but they are yet to create a realistic bikini with high heels.

Or is it this language thing yet again????

Anders

February 7, 2003

I guess I should have said bikinis und high heels. By the way, where do you work? I might be interested in investing!

2.3k · February 7, 2003

Check out the company home page and have a look for yourself.

There is an "In English" link on the page.

Anders

February 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:

SergZak, I think Los Angeles is a nice area, but I didn't like the pollution of the air too much when I was there. I've been in LA twice, both in 1991. Compared to Sweden, it was very smelly in the air from all exhaust fumes from the cars.

Anders

Oh, c'mon! Air pollution in Los Angeles??? HAH!

Actually, it has gotten ALOT better. I remember when "smog alerts" were an almost everyday occurence. I don't remember hearing of one for at least ten years now. Also, our cars are among the cleanest burning anywhere due to strict smog laws...it's too bad that these strict laws don't apply (at least not that I know of) to the big rigs and garbage trucks which all burn diesel fuel and blow and billow black smoke like there's no tomorrow. Oh well...

February 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:
Check out http://www.stralfors.se and have a look for yourself.

There is an "In English" link on the page.

Anders

Interesting company, but I couldn't find anything about the bikini R&D department. Must be top secret stuff huh?

4.5k · February 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:...Well, Alan, I went downstairs and asked Caroline, but unfortunately she says she's happy with the boyfriend she does have.
But "If he's so happy with the picture, you ought to send him a bigger one". Now that's talking! Do you prefer that one with her in the catsuit, or shall I just take my camera and go down and take a fresh photo?

Regarding the proof vs. percentage thing, I think that comes from the American habit of bragging about everything. To a nation that invented "whiter than white", it must sound better to say that something is 80 proof, not just 40%....

Anders

well I guess I'll have to settle fot the picture. For now. How about both photos?

By the way, proof has to do th way they were able to measure the amount of alcohol. It's not about American bragging. Here's the URL=http://www.drugs.indiana.edu/publications/iprc/factline/alcdoses.html]explanation[/url]- it's complicated actually.

February 8, 2003

You might consider getting a case for it. Most likely it's getting most of it's abuse when you are not holding it (i.e. in you pocket). I've even considered cutting off the plastic screen of the case for better visibility. If nothing else, it will hold it together better than the rubberband and allow you to clip it on a backpack strap or belt.

~the capt.

2.3k · February 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:
How about both photos?

I'll just find somewhere to host them.

Anders

February 10, 2003

I just bought a Legend and, thanks to this post, I see I made a good choice!

2.3k · February 10, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Supertech2k:
I just bought a Legend and, thanks to this post, I see I made a good choice!

Looking back up this thread, I just can't imagine that anyone can get anything GPS related out of it...

Anders

2.3k · February 18, 2003

My second Vista went back to Garmin last Monday, since the display malfuntioned on that one too.

Today, eight days later, a replacement Vista shows up in the mail.

Garmin's products (at least the Vista) may leave some to be desired, but their service is simply excellent!

Anders

Garmin Legend vs. Vista and expectations of problems

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