New Garmin GPS60

October 2, 2003

I had an Eagle Eplorer that had buttons that were underneath the screen, almost all the way to the bottom of the unit. It was often hard to use one handed, and stil keep a good grip on it. At that time, I heard other debates like this one (buttons above or below) I went to a store to try out a Garmin GPS 12. It has buttons on the top. People said that my fingers would cover the screen. They did not. I found it easier to handle than my explorer.

I hope that these are easy to handle, but I;m worried. Yes, cell phone have buttons below the screen, but they usually do not go all the way to the bottom. You have to have room fo the microphone somewhere.

2.3k · October 2, 2003

The first time I saw that arrangement, I thought that buttons on top seemed very stupid. But then I tried it, and it turned out to work better than buttons below, provided that you use the unit with one hand only!

If you try using it with two hands, like I usually do with my mobile phone, then it's awkward to have the buttons on top.

Anders

1.7k · October 2, 2003

Official quote from Garmin re GPS60

We cannot give out any information on this product as the final specification has not yet been decided. We have not released any information onto the internet so all available information is not the official information on the unit. The only accurate information will be available from our web site when the product is released.

Thanks for the enquiry

Regards,

Paul Clarkson

Customer Sale Support Associate

Garmin (Europe) Ltd

http://www.garmin.com

http://www.garmin.com/support/

Looks like it's in the pipeline. This was the reply to a email asking for confirmation and availability of the unit, sent this morning. Mancunian Pyrocacher

I burn to cache!

October 2, 2003

quote:
Looks like it's in the pipeline

Yeah, but like I was eluding to earlier, if anyone thinks they will have it by Christmas, that is a "pipedream!" (I hope I'm wrong about this)

"Never take a sunset for granted. Stop what you are doing and enjoy it. You never know when it may be your last"

October 2, 2003

Update....i just found out that the Garmin Rep. was in our store yesterday and he confirms the release of these units, but wouldn't (couldn't) confirm shipment dates.

"Never take a sunset for granted. Stop what you are doing and enjoy it. You never know when it may be your last"

October 2, 2003

Well, I did a lot of research on this topic and have found absolutely nothing of substance. After speaking to a few retailers (who may not even be in the loop), they have been given no indication of new units.

So that got me to thinking: Garmin is a big company with Marketing people, Sales people and lots of others who depend on their products making it to retailers with appropriate timing, product details, promotional materials and general foreknowledge. This is critical because it is that same target audience (the retailers) who need to know what promotions, discounts, and details they are going to offer.

Going on this basis (and having been involved in the supplier-wholesaler-retailer chain before), I would expect that a product like this one (based on specifications that have been speculated on in this thread) would be ripe for Christmas promotion.

So, *if* this product is real and *if* they have targeted a November release, then there are a lot of retailers who are going to be pissed that they have to retool or change their Christmas-time promotions, which are probably already on their drawing boards. Look around, end-of-year promotions are already starting in some places!

As an example, I noticed that Garmin themselves put out this press release for a product that is also due in November:

Forerunner Announcement

Did you notice what the Press Release date is? August 14th! In the world of retail, especially for big-ticket items (and this unit is likely to go for $500+, making it not your average Christmas present), you need lead-time for retailers to have a chance to fit them into their lineup.

Think about it: if a new product like this came down the line, those retailers have to figure out what to do with their current stock of GPSrs that will be eclipsed by this new model. They have to plan for that (be it a sale, a rebate, or what have you). You can't have Garmin come out 8 weeks before Christmas and say "Suprize! A new Unit!"

Nope. If they were going to announce something like this (which, IMHO is a much larger announcement than the aforementioned Forerunner), they would have done it a long time ago.

So, while I don't doubt that Garmin is working on something new and fantastic, I think the likelihood of it coming out before Christmas is very low.

Mr Peabody.

----

Mr Peabody and his fabulous WABAC Machine.

October 2, 2003

Guys, I work for West Marine, which is a HUGE account for Garmin. We have had no indication of seeing this unit in Q4. As a previous poster said, all Q4 advertising and promotion is already in the can. Even if this unit is ready to ship today Garmin would not do so without media buzz and ad support. It's too late for that to happen in this year.

October 3, 2003

I don't know what to say. I just passed down all the information I had about these units. All I know that on the paper with specs there was big, bold type saying "Available in November 2003", so I would say tah we jave to wait till COMDEX to see what GARMIN is up to with these units

October 3, 2003

I just got an e-mail from my Garmin rep. I asked if he could spare me any information, and this was his reply.

"Should hit the market around Christmas. Color screen, usb, a lot of memory."

This is not all I asked for, buy all that he would say.

October 3, 2003

quote:
I just got an e-mail from my Garmin rep.

O.k. there brasileiro.....You still have the "in" happening with our reps....So...where's our lights from Princenton Tec???

"Never take a sunset for granted. Stop what you are doing and enjoy it. You never know when it may be your last"

October 14, 2003

Hi.

If the pictures are correct and it is right that the display of the Garmin 60 series will be 1.5" x 2.2", we may expect to see these dimensions of the Garmin 60 series:

Approximate width: 52.5 mm.

Approximate height: 114 mm + 32 mm (antenna) = 146 mm.

(eTrex series: 51 mm x 112 mm with 1.1" x 2.1" display.)

October 15, 2003

My overall length came out about the same as yours, but I came up with a slightly wider dimension. I wanted to visualize how it might fit in my kit so I edited an image and added dimensions to it.

I based these dimensions upon a 1.5" x 2.2" 'visible' screen area. If the 1.5" x 2.2" refers to the 'active' area, then the dimensions may be as much as 5-10% greater than those listed.

-------------------

John - ardfarkle@d30.info

[This message was edited by ardfarkle on October 15, 2003 at 04:34 AM.]

4.5k · October 15, 2003

Nice detail ardfarkle. That's about what I figured. It's about the size of a Vista plus the antenna. The color unit seems to have all the features everyone been clamoring for. The basic Vista's size with electronic compass, now the pluses of helix antenna, color and larger display and more memory. I hope they'll have autorouting and there won't be more you'll need then that. I just wonder what the price will be?

Alan

October 16, 2003

I spoke with my Garmin rep and he said they will cost between $400-$500. And I'd be willing to bet that they will have autorouting.

October 16, 2003

It seems that the specs (specification vs. speculation) aren't consistent. Take the speculation that these units will not have european vs. north-american versions.

There are 2 reasons that this is unlikely. First, the licensing of the map/routing data is expensive, and therefore will add a significant chunk to the cost. Second, if the available memory is indeed 51 MB, then the most likely use is a 64 MB chip with a 13 MB basemap. 13MB is the same size as the existing individual NA and Europe basemaps, and it's unlikely that they've found a way to fit both into the same space as one did previously (though I'd be delighted if they did).

Also, the stated 30 hours on 2 AAs seams specious, unless there's been a fundamental breakthough. The little yellow eTrex only gets ~20 hours, and the color 60 is supposed ot have a larger, color screen (presumably backlit for daylight readability), faster processor and more memory, all of which take a signicant amount of power on the scale provided by AA batteries.

All in all, this has the flavor of a preliminary marketing proposal/plan that got leaked. I'm guessing that it's targeted for christmas '04, and that the specs will have morphed considerably by then.

-- Pneumatic

October 16, 2003

quote:
Pneumatic wrote:

It seems that the specs (specification vs. speculation) aren't consistent.

I'd agree here. This is quite often the case with early non-official information.

quote:
Take the speculation that these units will not have european vs. north-american versions.

There are 2 reasons that this is unlikely. First, the licensing of the map/routing data is expensive, and therefore will add a significant chunk to the cost. Second, if the available memory is indeed 51 MB, then the most likely use is a 64 MB chip with a 13 MB basemap.

This sounds reasonable, and I would expect this is the case. Even after the base map is offloaded to RAM and the RTOS system areas are mapped, etc., I would imagine there should be at least 40-45MB+ for map data. Maybe more.

quote:
Also, the stated 30 hours on 2 AAs seams specious, unless there's been a fundamental breakthough. The little yellow eTrex only gets ~20 hours, and the color 60 is supposed ot have a larger, color screen (presumably backlit for daylight readability), faster processor and more memory, all of which take a signicant amount of power on the scale provided by AA batteries.

Perhaps not.

I would guess the 30hr spec (if accurate) is for the basic non-map GPS 60 model when run in battery saving mode, and the other models would fall in line behind it according to their feature sets, just as is the case for the eTrex models.

As far as the new color models also being low power, their is something that was mentioned which hit a nerve. This was the mention of using TFT color displays. Current color displays are mostly TFT already and perhaps the new models are going to use the newer 'reflective' TFT displays.

Normal backlighting, no matter how bright, does little to increase contrast in bright outdoor situations, and it eats batteries like candy. The idea behind the reflective TFT displays is that they can display full color data with plenty of contrast when used in bright outdoor situations. In fact, the brighter the ambient light, the brighter the color on the display. This is done without the use of the backlight making for very low power consumption. When used in very subdued lighting the backlight is activated and the screen displays data in the same manner as current color LCD displays. I would imagine their energy use is comparable to traditional color displays when using the backlight. While color reflective TFT displays suffer from metamerism and are not the best choice for critical color work, they should work well for general color GPS mapping purposes.

NEC Daylite Laptop using reflective LCD display:

http://www.necsolutions-am.com/mobilesolutions/products/Versa/E120_DayLite/

The additional RAM shouldn't consume much energy, and if the CPU and other support chip die sizes have been reduced by a significant amount, the processor could be speced to run at an increased clock speed while still offering reduced power consumption. There are other places where power can sometimes be saved such as converting any existing TTL glue logic to CMOS, replacing any linear power regulator circuits with switching units, etc. If the GPS 60 units are "all on one chip" designs, Garmin might have reduced power consumption by a considerable amount.

quote:
All in all, this has the flavor of a preliminary marketing proposal/plan that got leaked. I'm guessing that it's targeted for christmas '04, and that the specs will have morphed considerably by then.

-- Pneumatic

Perhaps you're right, but these units look to be more than just operational mock-ups to me. Since the data appears to have come from a dealer I have to assume they are close to market. Garmin would never release such data to dealers a year ahead of the target release date. Here's a possible scenario if the GPS 60 line is replacing the eTrex line (just a hopeful guess):

Garmin starts offering rebates on all eTrex models at the end of October or mid-November. They sell out remaining stock of eTrex units during the Christmas season allowing their dealers to reduce stock. They then introduce the GPS 60 line at CES in January. At least this is what I'm hoping for

-------------------

John - ardfarkle@d30.info

[This message was edited by ardfarkle on October 17, 2003 at 03:26 AM.]

October 17, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by ardfarkle:

Take the speculation that these units will not have european vs. north-american versions.

There are 2 reasons that this is unlikely. First, the licensing of the map/routing data is expensive, and therefore will add a significant chunk to the cost. Second, if the available memory is indeed 51 MB, then the most likely use is a 64 MB chip with a 13 MB basemap.

Not an expert, nor am I in any loop, but my Garmin iQue allows me to load different basemaps - North America, International etc. Given what seems to be Garmin's penchant for incremental improvements/modifications that build on previous production units, I suspect they may do something similar with their next top-of-the-line GPSr's. Just my speculation.

In all things, moderation - including moderation.

October 18, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by ARTE:

quote:
Originally posted by ardfarkle:

Take the speculation that these units will not have european vs. north-american versions.

There are 2 reasons that this is unlikely. First, the licensing of the map/routing data is expensive, and therefore will add a significant chunk to the cost. Second, if the available memory is indeed 51 MB, then the most likely use is a 64 MB chip with a 13 MB basemap.

Not an expert, nor am I in any loop, but my Garmin iQue allows me to load different basemaps - North America, International etc. Given what seems to be Garmin's penchant for incremental improvements/modifications that build on previous production units, I suspect they may do something similar with their next top-of-the-line GPSr's. Just my speculation.

Actually, this was from Pneumatic's post, but it's a good point. There is no reason there could not be more than one basemap stored in ROM/Firmware that can be offloaded into RAM during boot. This is similar to multi-language data that is loaded from ROM based upon user selected parameters.

I have no idea who they license the maps from, or what they pay per unit, but I would imagine it is becoming less of an issue as GPS units become accepted as mainstream consumer electronic items.

-------------------

John - ardfarkle@d30.info

October 18, 2003

I am so buying one of them when and if they comeout as a replacement for my etrex, and likely give etrex to my cousin as a gift, and keep the V for the truck.

October 18, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by ardfarkle:
My overall length came out about the same as yours, but I came up with a slightly wider dimension. I wanted to visualize how it might fit in my kit so I edited an image and added dimensions to it.

http://www.d30.info/offsite/GPS60_dims.jpg

I based these dimensions upon a 1.5" x 2.2" 'visible' screen area. If the 1.5" x 2.2" refers to the 'active' area, then the dimensions may be as much as 5-10% greater than those listed.

-------------------

John - ardfarkle@d30.info

[This message was edited by ardfarkle on October 15, 2003 at 04:34 AM.]

Looking forward to a new drawing with millimeters

October 18, 2003

Not a big fan of color, wonder if the 51mb will also be for the grey screen.

October 18, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by wickedsprint:
Not a big fan of color, wonder if the 51mb will also be for the grey screen.

I have to wonder the same thing. I always have hopes that the next color screen to come out will be good, but I have yet to hold one in my hands I was happy with. I am really, really hoping this is real. I would like to have a reason to have my first Garmin :-)

A = A

October 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jasy:
Looking forward to a new drawing with millimeters

Just use Google. Example, type:

5.7 in to mm

in the search window and it well automatically be understood as a conversion from inches to millimeters. The first line listed will be:

5.7 in = 144.78 millimeters

Google has a lot of neat hidden/unknown features as well as several specialty search categories. I just love the catalog search.

http://catalog.google.com/

-------------------

John - ardfarkle@d30.info

October 20, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by ardfarkle:

quote:
Originally posted by jasy:
Looking forward to a new drawing with millimeters

Just use Google. Example, type:

5.7 in to mm

in the search window and it well automatically be understood as a conversion from inches to millimeters. The first line listed will be:

5.7 in = 144.78 millimeters

Google has a lot of neat hidden/unknown features as well as several specialty search categories. I just love the catalog search.

http://catalog.google.com/

-------------------

John - ardfarkle@d30.info

Excellent tip. I guess I am, or was, just a traditional boring user of search engines

October 20, 2003

I haven't posted here before so I hope this works.

It certainly does seem too late to be announcing something for Xmas (and they still haven't announced).

I agree with posted size estimates. To get a feel for it I hold my Etrex upside down and see what it would feel like if the keys were at the bottom.

Power consumption I'm sure is a marketing wish list and they'll need to be closer to product launch to get more accurate numbers. I'd be surprised if any Garmins have TTL logic since TTL glue hasn't really be in use for 15-20 years. I'm sure Garmin has been designing for low power consumption all along. Still, they could be doing some aggressive moves to really lower power by using state-of-the-art technology.

I'm not sure about the comment about off-loading the basemap to RAM though. I thought the original point was that the flash probably wasn't big enough. So copying it to RAM won't help with that.

October 20, 2003

This sounds like a very likely scenario to me. Garmin certainly wouldn't want to hurt their xmas sales of the existing models at this point. I too am hoping they're shown at CES. If they are I'll do what I can to bring back some pics!

---------------------------------------------

Garmin starts offering rebates on all eTrex models at the end of October or mid-November. They sell out remaining stock of eTrex units during the Christmas season allowing their dealers to reduce stock. They then introduce the GPS 60 line at CES in January. At least this is what I'm hoping for

-------------------

John - ardfarkle@d30.info

[This message was edited by ardfarkle on October 17, 2003 at 03:26 AM.]

http://www.cachegear.com

Technical News And Reviews Relating To Geocaching

"Law pain i reviar mistar aen"

October 27, 2003

Not since the beginning of this post did I see anyone mention anything about this thing looking like a Rino. The antenna is right from the Rino, and the black grip areas too. The Rino's use 3 AA batts (but they have FRS/GMRS radios built-in), and maybe this will usse 3 too...resulting in 30 hrs life. That would be the only way they could achieve such long batt life. The button on top is multi-function: On/Off(push and hold), and backlight (push=on/off, time limited by settings). No other functions for this button, so it would be used very little. The screen is larger than the Rino, but not by much. Remember: granted, the FCC was more heavily involved w/ the Rino's final approval, but Garmin dropped the hints on the Rino almost 2 YEARS ahead of when we saw it on the shelf...if you could get one. The Quadrafilar antenna seems to have an edge over "the patch," and some of the newer units I've seen (Mag. SportTraks, etc.) seem to be switching to this type. I love my Rino 120's, the GPS60 interests me, but I've no clue what diff. a color screen would make??? Whether nav. in the car (windshield mount), or caching in hand, a color screen seems like another way to kill batts. Unless it is transflective ($$$$), it would have to be backlit constantly. This being said from when I first wanted a PDA, it HAD to be color (Palm IIIC), and then upgrading to Handspring Visor blue color model (can't remember the name). But PDA's vs. GPSr's....color doesn't make much sense for handheld models. Nevertheless, waiting w/ baited breath....

RUN with those Scissors, run, run, RUN LIKE HELL!!!

2.9k · November 19, 2003

Okay, I found the old GPS 60 thread.

Now you can reserve a GPS, that will be out by the end of Jan '04

The gps at www.gpscity.com

http://www.gpscity.com/gps/brados/42138.1....0785/gpsmap60cs

Geoff

I see that I wont end up with a bunch of edited messages at the bottom of the posts now.

Edited November 19, 2003 by GOT GPS?

November 19, 2003

Well, that would go on the XMas wishlist if it wasn't for the Q1 - 2004 release date.

Looks pretty good... I hope it doesn't get delayed too much, or end up costing a fortune for us Canadians.

November 19, 2003

garmin has released some information about the gps units!!

press info:

http://www.garmin.com/pressroom/outdoor/111803.html

unit info:

http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap60cs/

November 20, 2003

The new units will have dedicated geocaching modes! Can someone please pinch me. Gotta go now so I can raid my stash of quarters.

November 20, 2003

Yea thats geocaching thing looks intresting. They need to take out the autolog of teh cache though, because as we know just because your at the cache location, dont mean you found the cache.

But this looks very intresting. This maybe my new caching GPS and I'll leave the V in Jeep.

Could be intresting and a very expensive January

-Robert

November 20, 2003

I happened across the new GPS60 online the other day. As I sat and stared at it my wife walked by, turned the monitor off, and said, "NO!"

2.9k · November 20, 2003

When you have found the cache, then you select FOUND on the GPS.

New Garmin GPS60

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