Help with which GPS to keep

March 14, 2003

We have 2 GPSs and to be honest with you, I am not experienced enough with either one to know which one I should keep

We are getting a Compaq IPAQ 3950 here in a week or so and I am going to hook one of the GPSs up to that for Navigation and then lso use the GPS for Geocaching.

We have a Mag 315 and a Garmin Etrex (the little yellow one).

I am going to sell one of them to help with the cost of the cables and software that I will need for the setup.

Any of you have any preferences or experience on which one I should keep and which one I should sell?

Thanks,

Cliff

2.9k · March 14, 2003

Some links to eTrex-IPAQ:

http://arrgh.no-ip.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6

http://www.pdatweaks.com/columns.php?itemid=10

Very hard to find cables for the IPAQ 3950, except for the earlier IPAQs.

March 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by GOT GPS?:
Some links to eTrex-IPAQ:

http://arrgh.no-ip.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6

http://www.pdatweaks.com/columns.php?itemid=10

Very hard to find cables for the IPAQ 3950, except for the earlier IPAQs.

Well I already found places to buy the cables. I found one place that is a direct connection from the the GPS to the IPAQ with a power connector to power either one of the units (that is $59) Then I found another place that actually has a cable to connect both and also has Power for Both (that is $89). They have cables for both the 315 and the etrex.

So my only question is which one I should keep

March 14, 2003

I also have the yellow etrex. I love it. Easy to use. Durable. Compact. I have also used a Garmin 12 which is another great unit. Garmin in general makes a quality product. I have also heard great things about Garmin's customer service. I haven't had any experience at all with Magellan so ymmv.

March 14, 2003

I also have the ipaq 3955 (same as the 3950, but with out the extra 5 at the end), and the magellan 315/plat. I bought a cable form

www.pc-mobile.com for the 315 and ipaq (also have garmin cables available-approx $30 for one that will power the ipaq). I found this setup to work quite nicely, but you can't power the GPSr of cigarette lighter, so that may be a problem if you don't have rechargeable batteries.

I eventually got tired of all the cables and got on of those navman sleeves, its nice to have in the car, but it does not hold a lock as well. And it takes a long time to get sat locks. But I sometime will use my 315/platinum just because I don't have to get the lock each time I switch programs.

Another cool thing about this is I can have 2 GPSr attached to my ipaq, so I can run 2 mapping programs at a time. I imagen if you had the 3970 you could have four (the navman, a CF gps in the CF slot on the navman, a bluetooth GPSr, and the serial GPSr, but then you would be a geek).

Wyatt W.

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.

March 14, 2003

I can't speak to the compatibility of either of these GPS receivers with your iPaq or any other PDA.

I have used both GPS receivers and I can tell you the Magellan 315 is a better unit than the Yellow eTrex.

The 315 has a more sensitive antenna and the ability to show more than one way point at a time on the breadcrumb map. Either one of those alone is enough to prefer the 315. The last point in particular is extremely handy when there are 3 or more Geocaches that can be found from a single parking location. You can see how the Geocaches are positioned relative to each other on the map and make some plans as to what order you'd like to proceed (a handy tip - mark a waypoint for your car before heading out).

A few more features... The 315 has a built in set of points for various cities and towns - I personally haven't found this to be extremely useful, but I've used it once or twice and it sure doesn't hurt. The 315 has the ability to display your current position in two different coordinate systems simultaneously - this can be very handy when, say, you're using a map marked in D/M/S (degrees minutes seconds) but you would like to use waypoints in D/M.M (minute decimal). The 315 has the moon and sun icons positioned around the compass screen - thus even though the 315 doesn't have a magnetic compass, you can still use the compass screen even whlie standing still as long as either the moon or the sun are visible. Just orient the compass so that the appropriate icon lines up with the celestial body in question and bingo the compass screen works while standing still.

The pros for the eTrex are: lighter, smaller, longer battery life (something like 20 hours vs 15 hours).

Don't get me wrong, the eTrex is good for what it is and I'm not knocking it, but as long as you have the choice between the two, keep the 315. And some of these features may not matter all that much if you're using the GPS with the iPaq, but the improved antenna sensitivity will always be beneficial.

ICQ: 5563417

March 14, 2003

The two different units have very different positional preferences, that make a lot of difference. If you intend stick the receiver up on the dash, the etrex is probably the better choice as you can lay it flat on it's back up there out of the way. With the 315 your need to have it carried vertically, which generally means you need a bracket, or a dash windshield combination that allows you to wedge it upright on the dash.

For cache hunting, either one of those units will work fine.

March 14, 2003

How about you sell both of them and get a meridian yellow/green (not sure how much you can get from selling the old ones)? this way, you can even leave the PDA at home and go without the cable mess after you installed mapsend on the meridian

2.3k · March 14, 2003

Keep the Magellan 315...it's a super tuff little unit that is very accurate and has a great database in it.

March 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by charlesml:
How about you sell both of them and get a meridian yellow/green (not sure how much you can get from selling the old ones)? this way, you can even leave the PDA at home and go without the cable mess after you installed mapsend on the meridian

I just got my brand new $100 special Magellan Meridian (green) this morning; it's fabulous! On the drive home, I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered the buttons are backlit! I plan to keep my Mag 315 though.

ICQ: 5563417

5.3k · March 14, 2003

Huh! I never noticed that, but there they are. (I've only had my Plat for 6 months).

You learn the durndest things reading these forums.

Max

Often wrong but seldom in doubt

March 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by embra:
Huh! I never noticed that, but there they are. (I've only had my Plat for 6 months).

You learn the durndest things reading these forums.

Max

Often wrong but seldom in doubt

I picked up mine 2 days ago too(from Fry's too)! and just found out the backlit buttons when i drove home tonight! what a nice and useful feature! I too plan to hold onto my old GPS (Magellan GPS2000XL).....at least for a while, may be as a backup...I missed the long battery life of my GPS2000.

I was waiting for someone at the train station, people around me were playing games/talking on their cell phones and I was playing with my new meridian...

March 14, 2003

For wandering around at night on foot, I prefer the one handed button layout of my eTrex over that on the sportrak. For use on the road, the one finger backlit buttons rule.

Just hope the weather tomorrow results in getting out to play instead of reading about it....

March 15, 2003

I would suggest something similar to Charles. Sell both units and pick up a Garmin legend. According to overall user review, it seems that it may not be as sensitive, but it is so small, that you can take it everywhere with you. That is huge for me.

March 16, 2003

Thanks for the replies everyone..

I think I will end up keeping the 315 and selling the Garmin Etrex..

So off to the GPS Garage Sale forum I go

March 16, 2003

quote:
The 315 has a more sensitive antenna and the ability to show more than one way point at a time on the breadcrumb map. Either one of those alone is enough to prefer the 315. The last point in particular is extremely handy when there are 3 or more Geocaches that can be found from a single parking location. You can see how the Geocaches are positioned relative to each other on the map and make some plans as to what order you'd like to proceed (a handy tip - mark a waypoint for your car before heading out)

The antenna issue is highly debatable. The electronics and DSP pretty much make up for it.

The "breadcrumb" thought is just plain wrong. My yellow eTrex displays every waypoint in the area in that mode.

George

2.9k · March 17, 2003

You need to upgrade the GPS 315 to the latest firmware. It is Vers. 3.15 I believe. The GPS behaves better with it. Vers 3.14 and lower had problems.

Always different...Hit refresh

maze?90+35+4+1+0+0+0+0+255+255+255

March 17, 2003

Keep them both. You will not get much for selling one of them and a second GPS comes in handy when you bring a friend along.

Team Sand Dollar

2.7k · March 18, 2003

Well, I'm biased. I'm Garmin all the way! I'd sell the Magellan.

March 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by nincehelser:
The antenna issue is highly debatable. The electronics and DSP pretty much make up for it.

The "breadcrumb" thought is just plain wrong. My yellow eTrex displays every waypoint in the area in that mode.

George

Have you actually used a Magllean side by side with your eTrex in a situation with marginal reception (a heavilly wooded area in the summertime)??? I have, and the difference is profound.

I may have been using an older version of the yellow eTrex firmware than what is currently available. Later firmware updates may have added multiple waypoints to the map.

Scott

ICQ: 5563417

March 19, 2003

I have. I generally carry an eTrex and Sportrak sided by side, having done so for hundreds of trail/backcountry miles now. I’ve also done well over a hundred sensitivity tests done side by side measureing number of sats locked on to, NMEA signal strength reported etc.. Everything I’ve seen would indicate reception is pretty comparable, 2 to 3 dB difference at most. (That’s about the amount of signal strength difference you get tilting the Magellan 10 degrees. Comparing is a little tough because sensitivity changes at different rates for the different relationships of sat to antenna) In the field, sensitivity this close makes it a toss up as to which unit will actually get a lock under any given situation because of differences in the reception patterns of the different antennas. For basic sensitivity I’m using static tests, good almanac data, and allowed the receivers a couple of minutes to sort themselves out. The different antennas do behave differently in terms of how they need to be held, multipath rejection, affects of closely surrounding objects etc.

While moving, the Magellans appear to be quite a bit better at maintaining a lock, which was my first impression of the unit. Once you carry them around a bit however, you start noticing that the Difference is probably more filtering, and software than sensitivity. You see things like the unit showing 5 sats in view and locked, but the elevation remains steady. You also notice that the unit goes into a mode where the position it reports lags your actual position and tends to build up accumulative errors that take a few minutes to go away after you stop. The eTrex on the other hand is filtered the least of any unit I’ve ever used.

As for multiple waypoints on the map page, as I recall the eTrex has done that since it first came out. You can’t pan the maps however, which may have put the waypoints you were looking for offscreen at whatever zoom level you were at.

For track comparisions between the GIII+, eTrex, and Legend check out my webpage which you can get to via my profile.

March 19, 2003

...the software and the filtering it does makes a big difference in "feel".

The bottom line, however, is that both Garmin and Magellen units do the job. If one unit was that much better than the other, we'd see it in the cache finds.

I like the eTrex series because of the smaller size. Magellens just seem too big and bulky to me.

I also like Garmin in that it is an American company, and not French.

George

March 22, 2003

quote:
The bottom line, however, is that both Garmin and Magellen units do the job. If one unit was that much better than the other, we'd see it in the cache finds.

I'm not sure what this "filtering" is that Searching_ut has vaguely described. He's implying that the Magellan units falsely report they are maintaining "lock" when they've actually had losses in the signal, while on the other hand the Garmin's will promptly report they've lost the signal. This is easilly contradicted. My Magellan 315 and Magellan Meridian GPS both update the satellite signal strengths _very_ quickly. Place my hand over the antenna and bam, within a fraction of a second it reports the satellite signal as gone. Remove my hand and bam, the signal is back.

Only one GPS I've used matched the problems Searching_ut describes - the yellow eTrex when in power save mode. I don't hold this against the eTrex as it's an optional feature and is easily turned off.

The patch antennas in the eTrex is just not that good. It's not a Magellan vs Garmin issue - read the forums and you'll find a number of Garmin III, Garmin V and Garmin 12 users that say the same thing. I guess we all must be experiencing mass hallucinations.

What you say about cache finds representing the antenna quality doesn't make sense. I've found caches with a Garmin eTrex, an eTrex Venture, a Mag 315, and a Mag Meridian. While searching for those caches, we found that getting a good fix on the position to be much tougher with either eTrex, but we widened our search area and increased our time looking and still found the cache. When using an eTrex side by side with a Magellan 315, the Mag 315 would show a 2D or 3D position in situations where the eTrex had problems picking up any satellites at all.

Scott

ICQ: 5563417

March 22, 2003

Mass hallucinations are quite common in the GPS world actually. For recent examples, look through the various GPS forums to see how many people lately have seen readings that indicate SA has been turned back on.

Measuring actual sensitivity takes specialized equipment. Those that have measured it however report 2 to 3 db difference averaged over the reception pattern of the antenna. Without specialized equipment, you can do field tests, logging and analyzing NMEA data over a variety of different conditions. In comparing reception patterns, with the eTrex flat on it’s back, the Sportrak and GIII+ antennas pointing straight up, I find the eTrex has slightly better reception directly overhead, followed by the Sportrak, and trailed by the GIII+. By time you’ve dropped down towards the horizon about 30 degrees from vertical, the receivers are all pretty much identical in reception. Dropping further towards the horizon, the reception of the eTrex drops off more rapidly than either the Sportrak, or the GIII, with the Sportrak dropping off slightly faster and more than the GIII+. The reception patterns of the Quad antennas are basically flatter and if averaged out you’ll find slightly higher overall reception.

Besides the antenna reception patterns, you’ve also got to take into consideration the ability of the antenna to reject mulitpath. Since bounced signals generally come from the sides, patch antennas often suffer less from multipath. There are also many other things that affect performance. You’ll notice a big difference in the way the different antenna types behave when brought near to solid objects. If a large object such as your body gets near the horizontal plane of patch style antennas, reception often suffers. While this doesn’t seem to cause problems with the quad antenna receivers often, they seem much more prone to reception problems if solid objects are directly below them, often suffering somewhat if placed on a car hood, or the ground. Partly because of the differences, the way you hold or use the receiver affects the results you get a great deal. For instance, the etrex suffers greatly in reception if held horizontal, tucked in close to the body near the belt as many people I’ve seen hold them.

Do side by sides in many different types of terrain, and reception conditions and you’ll find the antenna patterns behave pretty much as you’d expect in the field. In flat heavy tree cover, the etrex will generally do slightly better directly overhead. This area generally has the least signal blockage however, so it often doesn’t matter. As you look for satellites more towards the horizons, the flatter reception pattern of the quad antenna may perform slightly better. With a little intervention and aiming of the antenna, you can sometimes get a food fix with the patch antenna when you can’t with the Quad if the satellites are somewhat grouped. If they’re spread out your, odds are better with the quad. In the canyons etc, the patch antenna receiver generally works better and is more likely to provide a fix, and less prone to significant positional error.

As for the filtering, it’s a Magellan thing, the Garmin Quad units don’t behave the same way. Depending on how you use the receiver, it can be a blessing or a curse. Record out and back tracks in heavy tree cover, or mountain canyons. Also watch the position lag, or other errors you get when moving in reception problem areas. You’ll find the receiver does a lot of filtering, and that what you see isn’t what you get.

As I’ve challenged on the Sci.geo.sat newsgroup many times. Do side by side track comparisons yourself. This provides literally thousands of snapshots in time for you to compare results over. See for yourself if the results you get don’t surprise you.

March 23, 2003

...in their units to inflict those hallucinations.

Obviously there are some people in love with the quad-helix for some reason, and it can do no wrong.

What amazes me is that I often quickly find a cache with spot-on coordinates (with my inferior patch), then read the logs about how others had problems with their GPS...including those with quad-helix receivers under the same conditions. Why is that?

There are just too many variables...sat configuration, geocacher savy, obstructions, software differences, how you hold the unit...the whole antenna issue just fades into the noise.

Another thing that gets me is how many Magellen users hold their superior antenna in the wrong orientation for optimum reception.

George

March 24, 2003

I think it's just human nature. People often interpret based on their expectations. Expect SA, you see SA. For quite some time after Joes review on the Sportrak, people were reporting how much more accurate the Sportrak was vs the Meridian. Most controlled measured tests I’ve seen show them to be pretty comparable. Follow the Sci-geo newsgroup and you’ll see hundreds of different examples over the years. Advertising also comes into play a great deal, as does groupthink.

For the most part, I think exceptionally strong preferences for one type of unit over another is probably an indication of not having a lot of experience with the different units, use primarily in one type of terrain, or a strong preference for certain types of software behavior. I’d love to be able to combine the magellans stationary averaged accuracy with the Garmins accuracy while on the move. Then you’d want to be a able to have a quad antennas tree performance coupled with a patch antennas terrain performance. For now, you can’t pick and choose so you have to settle for a compromise. I still think the best GPS receiver is the one I have in my hand at the time.

5.3k · March 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by 2Hearts:
We have 2 GPSs and to be honest with you, I am not experienced enough with either one to know which one I should keep

We are getting a Compaq IPAQ 3950 here in a week or so and I am going to hook one of the GPSs up to that for Navigation and then lso use the GPS for Geocaching.

We have a Mag 315 and a Garmin Etrex (the little yellow one).

I am going to sell one of them to help with the cost of the cables and software that I will need for the setup.

Any of you have any preferences or experience on which one I should keep and which one I should sell?

Thanks,

Cliff

Sell both and buy a Magellan sport track Map or Maridian. I have used Garmin e-trex, E-trex legand, Vista, Magellan sport track map and Meridian Gold. Magellan topo maps have street names- Garmin does not, Magellan topo has terrain profile-Garmin does not. Magellan meridian has expandable memory with std memory card (A big plus) Non of garmin do.

5.3k · March 24, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by evergreenhiker!:
Well, I'm biased. I'm Garmin all the way! I'd sell the Magellan.

I guess you have not used a new magellans?

I have used Garmin and Magellan, I am done with Garmin, Magellan has better features.

Help with which GPS to keep

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