How can I get my disabled log entry re-enabled?

[+jaanise]

Hello!

 

I got one of my "found" log entries disabled/hidden/deleted by the cache owner, on the basis of its text containing only "TFC" which the owner did not consider the best practice and therefore removed my entry.

 

We exchanged a few PMs, after which they agreed to re-enable my entry, and I also added another sentence to it, so it's longer.

 

However, it turned out that they cannot do it, or at least the cache owner does not see a way to do it, even though I gave them a direct link to my disabled entry.

 

So, how can this be done then? If the moderators can do it, how can I contact the moderators?

Edited July 1 by jaanise

[Keystone]

You can write to Geocaching HQ via the Help Center, explain the situation like you did in this post, and ask them to help by restoring your archived log.  Use "geocacher dispute" as the category for your message, so that your request routes to the correct team.

 

Your friendly Community Volunteer Reviewer also has the power to "undelete" an archived log, but many Reviewers prefer to use that power only to correct mistakes.  Geocaching HQ is the "referee" for resolving logging disuputes between cache owners and cache finders.

[Moun10Bike]

You can also just post an entirely new log.

[Keystone]

31 minutes ago, Moun10Bike said:

You can also just post an entirely new log.

This is a much simpler solution for any geocacher who is not obsessed with logging their cache finds in perfect chronological order.  (There is nothing wrong with that obsession, if a person is "streaking," or aiming towards a milestone, or trying to meet the requirements for a challenge cache, etc.)

[+jaanise]

Thank you both for the answers!

[+Hynz]

12 hours ago, Keystone said:

12 hours ago, Moun10Bike said:

You can also just post an entirely new log.

This is a much simpler solution for any geocacher who is not obsessed with logging their cache finds in perfect chronological order.  (There is nothing wrong with that obsession, if a person is "streaking," or aiming towards a milestone, or trying to meet the requirements for a challenge cache, etc.)

Interesting. Was this always possible? And is the owner getting a new mail with the edited text?

I always thought writing a new log is the only way.

[+Goldenwattle]

Why didn't you just do a new log?

[+JL_HSTRE]

The CO also needs to be reminded that, no matter how much they dislike TFTC logs, they are not allowed to delete them.

[+Calypso62]

I sometimes get a Found log, particularly from new players, which consists of just a full stop (.). No text, just this punctuation mark. I don't delete the log as I believe they legitimately found the cache but I have a template message I post to them via the Message Centre asking politely if they might consider writing something of interest. I explain the background in how a cache gets created and the maintenance that's required to keep it in good order for them to find. I try to educate new players. 👍

[+Smitherington]

3 minutes ago, Calypso62 said:

I sometimes get a Found log, particularly from new players, which consists of just a full stop (.). No text, just this punctuation mark. I don't delete the log as I believe they legitimately found the cache but I have a template message I post to them via the Message Centre asking politely if they might consider writing something of interest. I explain the background in how a cache gets created and the maintenance that's required to keep it in good order for them to find. I try to educate new players. 👍

I like to educate new cachers too but I doubt that they ever check messages so it is often futile. 

[+jaanise]

10 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Why didn't you just do a new log?

Re-enabling the entry just seems the correct way of resolving this. I wanted to find out if there is an official, intended way of dealing with such matters, and then go through with it to see how it works, even if a simpler workaround occurred. (And it worked fine, a Community Coordinator from Geocaching HQ has already replied and re-enabled the entry.)

 

Also, it just seems right to restore a wrongfully disabled entry. If the entry is valid, why should it stay disabled?

 

And to remind to the owner that it's not OK to disable log entries just because they don't like them and they can do it, as JL_HSTRE mentioned.

 

As I've seen how important the longer texts may be to some cache owners, I'm now more inclined to think of something more to write in the entries. Before, I just wrote "TFTC" and added something more only in "not found" cases or when I actually had something to say. However, Calypso62's way of explaining the importance of the texts is definitely better than deleting an entry.

 

While handling this matter, I got a better understanding of what is a valid entry. Despite the owner pointing me to the rules as the reason for deletion, now I know that short entries are not against the rules even if the cache owners (or other players) appreciate longer entries. (Also, the appreciation really is subjective. I, for example, not really dislike but roll my eyes when I see long copy-paste texts of players describing their trip to the city or country, or with whom they traveled, and adding that this is their 6789th found cache, without really saying anything about the particular cache itself. And there are very, very, very many very short entries, containing only "TFTC" or "thanks", or a one or two smilies etc. of which I either don't think much of, or use as a pointer that there haven't been anything (wrong) to be said about finding the cache. It definitely makes an impression that short texts are normal, and I don't really think less of such players because of it.)

 

I didn't even know that the cache owners can delete log entries. Now I know that, and also that they cannot undelete the entries by themselves (even though the advice is to contact HQ only if one cannot come to an agreement with the cache owner privately https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=112&pgid=482; we came to an agreement, but the owner just cannot restore the entry).

 

All this is good to know also because I intend to create a couple of cashes of my own.

 

Another reason, before I suspected that it is probably invalid, was that I wanted the log entry to be made and listed at the exact time I found the cache. I only now really realise that marking a (regular) cache as found/solved can be done at any time and any place. You don't need the GeoCache app to navigate to the cache, vibrate and mark your finding at that moment, which is what I thought in the beginning. For all intents and purposes, an entry made in that way is in no way different from a manual entry done in the web for any selected cache with the date set manually. Except, maybe if the date is set manually, the time of the day is always set to, for example, "00:00", and thus it may get sorted incorrectly among other entries of that same date for the same cache.

[+arisoft]

1 hour ago, jaanise said:

All this is good to know also because I intend to create a couple of cashes of my own.

 

This is a good way to learn why TFTC is not the best way to log a find. Before you create a cache, I must warn you that you will get all logs in your email without opt-out choise.

[+Calypso62]

2 hours ago, jaanise said:

However, Calypso62's way of explaining the importance of the texts is definitely better than deleting an entry.

 

This is what I send.......

 

Hi XYZ,

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of geocaching.

 

I've noticed that when you log a find on a cache, it often consists of just a full stop (.). While you are perfectly able to write this as your log text, I just wanted to mention a couple of points for your consideration.

 

A cache owner (CO) takes great pride in coming up with an idea for a cache, researching a suitable location, choosing an appropriate container, stocking that container, placing that container and maintaining that cache when there is a problem, as well as creating the cache page and going through the publishing process so that it appears on the geocaching website and app for you to be able to find.

 

Every time one of my caches is logged online, I receive an email of that log. As a CO, reading the text of your log is a most enjoyable aspect of cache ownership and something I really look forward to doing. As such, COs like to hear about your adventure. Things like, what brought you to the area today? Did you like the location? Whether you had difficulty finding the cache or was it easy for you? Did you enjoy learning about the area you visited by reading the cache description. Overall, did you enjoy the geocaching experience? It doesn't have to be an essay, just a sentence or two to tell the cache owner and those that follow about your experience.

 

Therefore, instead of simply writing a full stop as your log, may I ask you to consider taking a few minutes to write something we can all enjoy reading.

 

I really hope you are enjoying all the many wonderful adventures this activity is taking you on.

 

Cheers and happy geocaching.

Calypso62

[+Smitherington]

It doesn't have to be a lot to be appreciated by the CO.

 

Good examples recently from some of my caches:

 

Thank you for making this one. We loved it!! All smiles and have a great summer

 

Got this while watching deer with my dear❤️🦌

 

Yaaay! Just had to stop by while passing through the area. Nicely done hide. SL TFTC! (#11330)

 

Poor examples recently from some of my caches:

 

Found it (the second find for this cacher.  Doesn't know better) 

 

Tftc

 

Watch your step 🕰️. (not sure what this means because it is not a dangerous area.  A snake maybe.  They could have elaborated)

 

[+Goldenwattle]

4 hours ago, jaanise said:

As I've seen how important the longer texts may be to some cache owners, I'm now more inclined to think of something more to write in the entries.

Makes the log more believable too, if something is described about the visit. I take notes of my finds, so later, on my home computer, or laptop when travelling, I can write a decent log. I know I wrote some short logs when starting out, but I don't think just TFTC (unless maybe to make some, bit disrespectful strange point - which likely the CO didn't get anyway😆 - all in my  mind! ). My first log was reasonable. I went to remind myself what it was. It was only a mintie tin attached to the tree, but being my first cache (and not a mintie eater, so didn't know these tins) I thought the little 'box' attached to the tree was clever. It kept me in the game.

 

"I found this easily; my first Geocache. I joined yesterday. A nice easy one to start with. A couple walked by and another person was exercising her dog on the oval, but I was ignored at the tree."

4 hours ago, jaanise said:

I didn't even know that the cache owners can delete log entries.

Yes, if a CO finds no signature they can delete the log. I check logs, but give people a chance to supply other proof of find if no signature, such as a photograph of very good description, before deleting. Easier on beginners. I would not delete for TFTC, as long as they signed the log (to prove they found it), although not keen on just TFTC/Ta/thanks/./, and find them flippant.

[+NanCycle]

Back in the day, when I was strictly a GPS cacher, all my logs were written after I got home and was sitting at the computer--nowadays I mostly use the app and just enter "Found it" while on site.  But I still write a better log later (usually the evening of the same day but sometimes a day or so goes by before I get it done.  Unfortunately the CO only gets notification of the original log and doesn't even know about the edit unless they actually look for it.  

[+niraD]

5 hours ago, NanCycle said:

Back in the day, when I was strictly a GPS cacher, all my logs were written after I got home and was sitting at the computer--nowadays I mostly use the app and just enter "Found it" while on site.  But I still write a better log later (usually the evening of the same day but sometimes a day or so goes by before I get it done.  Unfortunately the CO only gets notification of the original log and doesn't even know about the edit unless they actually look for it.  

That's why I use field notes drafts. There's no immediate notification when I find a cache, because the field note draft is private, seen only by me. But the only log I post is a real one, written while sitting in front of a real computer. The CO and anyone following the cache see my actual log, not a placeholder that is later edited.

[+grimpil]

When I think of all the time & effort a CO puts into creating & maintaining caches for my pleasure I have always thought it only polite to attempt to write interesting logs.  And it is part of my fun in playing the game.  Even a couple of sentences must mean more than TFTC when the CO gets notified of a new log on their cache.  Even when catching up on a busy day or a holiday I might use cut & paste to explain why I was in the area but will always then add some relevant remark to each individual cache.  Sometimes I look back at a cache I found a while back & it is always sad to see my log might be the only one (or one of very few) to actually say anything. TBH the prevalence of TFTC is one of the things that deters me from being a CO.  I would be so frustrated that my efforts were wasted on number crunchers.  Even after only being a cacher for 7 years I can definitely see a downturn in the overall quality of posted logs.  Perhaps the lack of finder enthusiasm is also reflected in the growing proliferation of bison tube caches.  Why should the CO be creative if the finders cannot be?

[+notas14]

As a CO I am one of the ones that enjoy reading decent logs better than extra long ones with thank you in 100 languages or a copy paste that clearly is not something related to the cache. As a finder I always try to write something as well, however sometimes it is hard when they bring you to visit the 10th post in a row. The ones that don't care about logs will always write TFTF or GPEC as we do in Spain but for the ones that we try write, as a CO you also have to show something interesting to write about if you want a decent log.

[+hzoi]

What puzzles me the most are the TFTC logs with a favorite point. So it's in your top 10%, but you couldn't be bothered to write more than four letters...uh, ok. That's one way to do it, but it's not the preferred technique.