An Quick and Easy 4.5 Terrain Series

[+Weber_and_Sons]

I have an Idea that I'm going to do over the summer where I hide a bunch of caches in places that would be T5 (underwater, in a tree, on a rock wall) except they don't require equipment, on will go in a lake but it is shallow enough you don't need scuba gear but deep enough you need to swim. when publishing these caches is there anything I should know, are these actually T5 but I'm rating them wrong and do you guys have any other ideas? 

 

The reason I'm doing this is cause i want to get underwater caches and tree caches but there are either none in my area or I don't have the specific equipment so these are supposed to take no more than an hour and their supposed to be an "introduction" T5's.

Edited June 16 by Weber_and_Sons
forgot one of the main parts

[+Max and 99]

13 minutes ago, Weber_and_Sons said:

The reason I'm doing this is cause i want to get underwater caches and tree caches but there are either none in my area

But you're hiding these so you can't log a find on them.

13 minutes ago, Weber_and_Sons said:

are these actually T5 but I'm rating them wrong and do you guys have any other ideas?

From the Help Center, T 5:

 

Requires specialized equipment such as scuba gear, a boat, rock climbing gear, or similar.

Edited June 16 by Max and 99

[+Weber_and_Sons]

49 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

But you're hiding these so you can't log a find on them.

Sometimes hiding can be more fun then finding! not always but also I can't ask somebody to hide them for me but I can have a fun time hiding so other cachers can enjoy finding. The only part I'm sad about is that I cant use these to add to my D/T grid.

[+Bear and Ragged]

1 hour ago, Max and 99 said:

But you're hiding these so you can't log a find on them.

 

Might encourage others to 'have a go' at hiding similar?

Worth a try!

 

@Weber_and_Sons Good Luck with this. 

[+GeoElmo6000]

I think T4.5 caches are the most difficult terrain ratings, more than T5.  I have found one T4.5 cache and twelve T5 caches.  T4.5 is defined as "Extremely demanding movement over potentially hazardous terrain." so I would expect a very difficult cache placement, which *you* have to place *and* maintain.  

 

Please take the terrain ratings seriously when placing caches.

 

The T5 caches I've found are easier because I just hopped in my kayak and got myself to an island or whatnot and once there the terrain was probably like a T2.  I haven't found a T5 tree or SCUBA cache, but for someone with the right equipment and training, they are also probably easier than T4.5.

 

I think T5/D5 caches are often mislabeled, as they may be T5, but they don't meet the D5 criteria of "The most extreme mental challenge. Requires specialized knowledge, skills, tools, or significant effort to find, solve, or open.", which basically means it requires specialized equipment to get to, but it's also extremely difficult to find/open etc.

 

Edit to add: I just looked up my T4.5 find and it was an earthcache in North Carolina where you had to climb to the top of a small sand dune and answer questions about something sand-dune related.  Definitely not a T4.5 cache.

Edited June 16 by GeoElmo6000

[+niraD]

49 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

T4.5 is defined as "Extremely demanding movement over potentially hazardous terrain." so I would expect a very difficult cache placement

 Before the Help Center defined the half-star ratings, I saw 4.5-star ratings used two ways: as "5-star lite" where some sort of equipment/tool was needed, but it wasn't particularly difficult to obtain/use; and as "4-star plus" where it was as difficult as it could be, without some sort of equipment/tool being able to help with the difficulty.

 

But the Help Center now defines 4.5 stars as "4-star plus" so new caches should use that rating.

[+barefootjeff]

1 hour ago, niraD said:

 Before the Help Center defined the half-star ratings, I saw 4.5-star ratings used two ways: as "5-star lite" where some sort of equipment/tool was needed, but it wasn't particularly difficult to obtain/use; and as "4-star plus" where it was as difficult as it could be, without some sort of equipment/tool being able to help with the difficulty.

 

But the Help Center now defines 4.5 stars as "4-star plus" so new caches should use that rating.

 

Looking through my list of terrain 4.5 finds, about half are "5-star lite" ones, either a short kayak paddle or some that needed a ladder but were otherwise easy. Some of those are quite recently published, too, and really should have been terrain 5. There's one, a virtual set on a secluded beach, that was meant to be accessed by boat and listed as a "5-star lite" 4.5, but I missed the tide and ended up taking the overland route which was probably more like a genuine 4.5, although even that would be pushing it a bit and, if it was mine, I'd have likely rated it a 4.

[+brekkcaching123]

Rating a cache a T5 means they require special equipment. Using a boat, yes. Climbing a tree, no. Climbing a rock wall would depend if it needs equipment or not.

[+brekkcaching123]

5 hours ago, Weber_and_Sons said:

Sometimes hiding can be more fun then finding!

Tell me that. I've hidden 21 this year and found about 6🤣

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, brekkcaching123 said:

Rating a cache a T5 means they require special equipment. Using a boat, yes. Climbing a tree, no. Climbing a rock wall would depend if it needs equipment or not.

Some trees (just like some rock walls) require special equipment to climb safely. But the tree climbing caches (or tree climbing stages) that I've seen have not been in that category.

[+cerberus1]

On 6/16/2025 at 8:38 PM, brekkcaching123 said:

Rating a cache a T5 means they require special equipment. Using a boat, yes. Climbing a tree, no. 

 

Edited June 18 by cerberus1

[+The_Jumping_Pig]

D/T ratings depend so much based on region. In my experience, around PA/WV/OH, nobody actually follows the Groundspeak guidelines for D/T ratings. From my experience, A D1.5 should not take 15 minutes to find; a D2 should not take half an hour. A .5 mile hike on a flat wheelchair accesible path is most definitely not a T1. 

 

With this, I would disagree with most of the people on this thread. Some tree climbs, if difficult, may be a T5 (and some people may skip the challenge with a ladder). If you're climbing up a long vertical rock wall, it might be T5 as well. And an underwater cache is most definitely a T5.

 

I have 24 T4.5s and 22 T5s. For me T4.5s can be tree climbs and whatnot, but mostly they are very strenous hikes with a good deal of bushwacking involved. T5s involve doing pretty crazy physical activity (or needing a kayak or something).

 

However, you live nearly 2000 miles from me. Customs there might be completely different. I don't think anybody else who has responded to this thread lives within 1000 miles from you, with some on other side of the world. I'd say find some T4.5 and T5 caches of your own in your area and see what the standard is there.

[+Weber_and_Sons]

If you need a latter T5

If you need tree climbing gear T5

If you need a harness T5

If you need equipment T5

If you don't need any of the above then its T4.5

[+Smitherington]

Well, even though none of mine need the things you mentioned, I believe I will not change them to 4.5.

[+GeoElmo6000]

9 hours ago, Weber_and_Sons said:

If you need a latter T5

If you need tree climbing gear T5

If you need a harness T5

If you need equipment T5

If you don't need any of the above then its T4.5

 

I once hid a magnetic container at the top of a light post.  I used a painting extension pole duct taped with a grabber and a rope to place it about 15 feet up.  I rated it as a T1.5 and a high difficulty, but my reviewer made me change it to T5 because you needed special equipment (though one guy shimmied up the light pole to get the cache, he gets bonus points for that).  I really didn't consider it a T5 but the reviewer wouldn't publish it unless I changed it to T5.

 

Edit to add: I encouraged spoiler photos like the ones below because I enjoyed seeing how people got the cache.

Here are some fun pics:

Edited June 20 by GeoElmo6000