Challenges - Find Now, Claim Later Issue

[+ecanderson]

Just ran up against something that has changed my mind about this practice.

 

Challenge cache was 'findable' a year ago.  Cacher X and Y separately found container, signed, and one did create a "Write Note" at the time.

Cache disappeared for quite some time.  No finds, several DNFs.

Cacher X and Y finally qualified for the challenge, and wrote their "Found" logs for it using the current date.

 

The problem cache has now had it's 'health' reset, or at least improved, by these 'inappropriately' dated "Found" logs.

 

Edited May 28 by ecanderson

[+barefootguru]

Using the date you found the cache for the online log:

• keeps your dot days for size/type/etc. true
• keeps your 'distance between caches' stat true
• any other stats which are date based
• makes sense when people view the logs (as you've just discovered)

Using another date for logging:

• enables couch logging:  'I just happened to check if I qualify, so am logging this challenge I signed years ago.'
• means you can do things like collect multiple countries in a day from your couch, keep a streak going, fill in dot days…

The only thing using the original date mucks up is e.g. your 1,000th find, but you can lock that in.

 

It's contentious.  And Groundspeak won't rule on the date to use.

[+niraD]

7 hours ago, barefootguru said:

It's contentious.  And Groundspeak won't rule on the date to use.

And the problem goes away if you wait until you qualify for a challenge cache before you sign its log. Just sayin'...

[+thebruce0]

I think people log when they've qualified (if after signing) because of thinking of the 'find' as an achievement, where in the case of challenges you can't log it found until you've also qualified. So the Found It marks that accomplishment. But yeah, it definitely messes up things in the mechanics where the Found It log implies (literally) Found, as of the log date.

Side effect of the Challenge cache type exception. Not likely to change despite lots of suggestions over the years =/

[+paleolith]

11 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Challenge cache

 

Same problem when users separate a joint account and relog old finds. I'd say 90% of them relog with the current date. I've messaged several when I saw this happening. No response, no change in incorrect dates. As I see it, this is a much bigger problem than challenge cache logs, and very hard to address.

[+CAVinoGal]

15 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

I think people log when they've qualified (if after signing) because of thinking of the 'find' as an achievement, where in the case of challenges you can't log it found until you've also qualified. So the Found It marks that accomplishment

 

I was just about to reply with a similar response - I can't log the find (at least, I'm not supposed to) until I qualify for the challenge.  So I do sign challenge caches when I find them, log a Write Note, and claim the find when I qualify, as I was counseled to do early in my geocaching "career".  "You never know when you might qualify, then you can claim the find!"  I just thought that's how it was done!

 

And I do log on the date that I qualify, or figure out that I qualify when I check things.  Technically, I haven't FOUND it until I qualify, though I can see how that might give people the impression the cache itself is still there and it may be long gone.  I do say in my log for the "Find" that I actually signed it on xx/xx/xxxx and now qualify, but not everyone reads past logs.

[+ecanderson]

If at physically seeing the cache on the "found" date was required, even if it was for a 2nd time, there wouldn't be any issues.  I don't see any other approach that doesn't have the potential to foul something up one way or another.

[+barefootguru]

9 hours ago, niraD said:

And the problem goes away if you wait until you qualify for a challenge cache before you sign its log. Just sayin'...

That's what I generally do, but if I'm unlikely to return to an area, or they're challenges which are no longer allowed, I will pre-sign them.

[+The A-Team]

I try not to pre-sign challenge caches if I can avoid it, to prevent such issues. However, like barefootguru, I do it on occasion. Since I know people do it, I know to check the logs more carefully on challenge caches to see when people actually visited the physical cache.

 

I don't have many pre-signed challenge caches on-the-go at any given time, so I keep close track of my progress on them. When I do qualify, I log it as a find on the date that I find the last cache to qualify. I don't subscribe to the "I was bored so I checked if I now qualify on this random date" method. I want my log to reflect the truth of when the requirements for the find were met (both log signed and challenge requirements completed).

 

...but then, I'm also not the kind to "save" finds for a more convenient date. I'm just picky about accuracy, whereas others are more loose.

[+MNTA]

2 hours ago, The A-Team said:

I try not to pre-sign challenge caches if I can avoid it, to prevent such issues. However, like barefootguru, I do it on occasion. Since I know people do it, I know to check the logs more carefully on challenge caches to see when people actually visited the physical cache.

 

I don't have many pre-signed challenge caches on-the-go at any given time, so I keep close track of my progress on them. When I do qualify, I log it as a find on the date that I find the last cache to qualify. I don't subscribe to the "I was bored so I checked if I now qualify on this random date" method. I want my log to reflect the truth of when the requirements for the find were met (both log signed and challenge requirements completed).

 

...but then, I'm also not the kind to "save" finds for a more convenient date. I'm just picky about accuracy, whereas others are more loose.

I used to do this but have been burned multiple times. With years of effort to qualify I shifted to presigning any and all challenges. Including ones I probably will never qualify for who knows I might be in the mood one day to give one a try. 

 

Project-gc will track your notes for you and even notify you if you qualify. Though this is a premium feature. I have since stopped paying and shifted to monitoring my signed caches through a private list checking every once in awhile qualifications. There are a handful of keywords and attributes I go for and I keep a list of them so I know what to search for specially when I visit new areas. When I'm actively working on challenges I'll log the that day I qualify. Some grandfathered challenges where research is required making lists I'll log them on that day I figure it out. 

 

Currently have 92 on my signed list though only working on about 7. With 14 now archived.

 

Stopped long ago playing games with found it dates. Honestly don't care anymore. I know the date I found my cache in a fourth country that I was not a thousand miles away in multiple us states as they were just challenges. I was just happy to qualify for finally. Gives me motivation sometimes. 

[+barefootjeff]

5 hours ago, barefootguru said:

That's what I generally do, but if I'm unlikely to return to an area, or they're challenges which are no longer allowed, I will pre-sign them.

 

If there's a challenge I'm specifically working towards, I'll try to qualify before I visit the cache, but there have been a couple of occasions when that hasn't quite worked out. One was on a pair of close-by challenge caches, where I qualified for one but wasn't quite over the line on the other. I found and signed both on the same day but posted a note on the one I hadn't qualified for then, ten days later when I'd qualified, logged a find.

 

The other was a trail of challenge caches along a ridge north-west of Sydney, a couple of hours drive from here. Our group went out there in 2022 and we signed the logs on all the ones we found, but there were a few I hadn't qualified for. A few months ago I was looking back through them and found I'd recently qualified for one, so I worked out from my logs when that would have been and logged a find with that date.

 

Then there's The Scenic Adventurer Challenge (GC5KEY1) that I've had an eye on ever since it was published, as both the challenge and the cache location itself are pretty appealing to me. Our group is planning a visit pehaps in July, weather permitting, and I'm keen to go along even if I haven't qualified by then as the hike out there is a terrain 4.5 that I wouldn't be comfortable attempting alone. I currently have 31 of the 40 qualifying finds needed, and there's a qualifying cache in the Newcastle region I want to try when we get some dry weather, but the rest will probably require multiple trips to the Blue Mountains west of Sydney and will again require a decent spell of dry weather, something that's been a rare commodity this year.

 

Whenever I've logged a find on a date after I signed the physical log, I'll say in my log when it was I did that. I think for a challenge cache, if you're trying to figure out when the cache was last physically visited, you really have to read through the find logs.

[+Nite*Owls]

We have only ever found and signed challenge caches that we qualified for at the time we found it. But I'm picky about my dates/stats, etc. And I love challenge caches but we don't have to find every single one. However I do understand why people sign and write a note to qualify and log later, and I don't really mind it. But yes it's annoying because it can make a missing challenge cache look as if it is still there and doing fine unless you read through the logs.
Another thing I notice often with challenge caches is sometimes we come across one that is obviously missing and has a few DNFs, but some high number cachers will still log it as found the day they "signed it" (between others' DNFs) because I can tell they really want that challenge, any and all challenges! Makes me wonder if some of them even really visit the spot and look. I've also seen signatures of some high number cachers missing from the physical logs. If a challenge cache is missing or you can't find it, it should be logged as a DNF like any other cache.

[+paleolith]

Really, challenge caches should have log types "visited" and "qualified" but not "found". Would clear up all these dilemmas. But that boat sailed a long time ago.

[kablooey]

I agree with paleolith. I visited a Challenge cache today and didn't realize it was a 363-day lonely cache until I got there and signed the log. I would have waited another two days if I had known that the most recent five logs were apparently from earlier finds.