Guaranteed disappointment

[+barefootjeff]

More and more often, I'm seeing new players start off downloading the app from the app store with premium membership from the get-go, then just doing what it tells them to do, which is pick a nearby cache, tap Navigate and go find it. That's what this newbie did, except the nearby cache they picked happened to be a 2.5/4 4-stage multi that's probably the toughest cache I've placed.

 

 

That cache they picked for their first one would be especially difficult to do using just a phone, as it has a worksheet that needs to be filled out with information from the three virtual waypoints and then manipulated to populate the final coordinates. They ended up messaging me saying "we don't understand how to get a code".

 

It was a similar story a week ago when another such newbie decided to take on another of my multis, this time one with physical waypoints each showing the coordinates of the next stage. They had no idea how to add a waypoint in the app and were trying to stick the coordinates, in DMS format, into Google maps.

 

The app really isn't well-suited to non-traditional caches, particularly with everything telling newbies to just tap Navigate and go without ever looking at the description or having any understanding or even awareness of cache types. I guess throwing newbies in the deep end with PM from the get-go is good for HQ's bottom line and works well in places where almost all the caches are 1.5/1.5 traditionals, but in places where many of the caches are higher D/T non-traditionals, it just about guarantees that the first cache they attempt will end in tears and be their last.

[+arisoft]

The premium attribute was mostly used for preventing beginners and evil muggles to see the cache description. It doesn't work against beginners any more.

 

There is one "new" method that can be used to prevent mobile users playing the cache. If you put some vital information on the background image, it is visible only on the website with desktop browser.

[+Bear and Ragged]

Stop new cachers from paying for Premium, until they have Found a few?

(Or Premium is higher, and finding a few caches gets a 'discount' for Premium?)

 

How about logging on via the website, before being able to search for a cache? Would mean there IS a way to communicate with new cachers, none of this "Last Visit: Never" malarkey.

[+arisoft]

28 minutes ago, Bear and Ragged said:

Stop new cachers from paying for Premium, until they have Found a few?

(Or Premium is higher, and finding a few caches gets a 'discount' for Premium?)

 

This opens a new problem when they "find" caches to see more caches on the map.

It must be something that is not advertized so the player will not try to unlock the feature prematurely.

 

[Moun10Bike]

18 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

More and more often, I'm seeing new players start off downloading the app from the app store with premium membership from the get-go, then just doing what it tells them to do, which is pick a nearby cache, tap Navigate and go find it.

 

This is not an accurate representation of how the game is presented to new accounts in the app. There is what we call a First-Time User Experience (FTUE) that tries to direct new users to caches with which a new user will have a high likelihood of success. These are generally traditional caches with low difficulty ratings that have been found recently and don't have recent DNFs. They are labeled as "For You" on the map and marked as "Recommended for new cachers". The closest of these options is pre-selected for the user in the app in an effort to encourage them to start there. We don't prevent them from choosing another option, though.

[+brekkcaching123]

I have a 3.5/1 (GCAA6YK) cache that I hid 2 years ago. This happens often. Multiple logs are from newbies that can't find it although it's still there. It is kind of annoying but part of the game. The bleachers that the cache is on are used very constantly, multiple times a week even in the winter indoors. The annoying part is that I've gotten multiple DNFs from newbies on my CO Dashboard and I normally feel like I need to check it. I had 2 DNFs on it since yesterday.

[+barefootjeff]

1 hour ago, Moun10Bike said:

 

This is not an accurate representation of how the game is presented to new accounts in the app. There is what we call a First-Time User Experience (FTUE) that tries to direct new users to caches with which a new user will have a high likelihood of success. These are generally traditional caches with low difficulty ratings that have been found recently and don't have recent DNFs. They are labeled as "For You" on the map and marked as "Recommended for new cachers". The closest of these options is pre-selected for the user in the app in an effort to encourage them to start there. We don't prevent them from choosing another option, though.

 

Okay, so maybe the problem locally is there just aren't any caches around here that would qualify as "recommended for new cachers". When I go to the Find Your First Cache page in the Help Centre, there's a link to beginner caches in your area which does a search for regular and large traditionals with D and T both 1 or 1.5. The nearest cache to home that shows up is 12.6km away in Erina. Second on the list, at 14.5km away, is a 2004 cache in the picnic area on Mt Elliot.

 

In the most recent incident with my multi, the new player said they lived in Koolewong and picked my cache because it was close by (its starting point is on Koolewong train station):

 

 

There aren't a lot of caches around Koolewong and the 2/1 traditional just south of there is a micro with the last two logs DNFs, one by a player with over 2000 finds and the other by someone with 8. Its last find was in August last year but it's a tough one and took me several attempts before I finally spotted it.

 

The trouble with low D/T regular or large (or even small) traditionals is they don't last very long before they're muggled. All the hiding places that would reasonably conceal containers of that size are in elevated bushland that would be at least terrain 2.5. There are some really good beginner caches in scenic locations around here,  but getting to them requires stretching the legs a bit and extending your search to terrain 2.5 or higher. Ones like Muddys Heights (GC44X7B), a terrain 4 trad that was my fourth find back in 2013, or some of my own traditionals like these:

• Dark Corner Track GCAK18B a 1.5/3 small next to the Great North Walk in Brisbane Water National Park at a scenic overlook above the Hawkesbury River
• Cave Dweller GC9TW3Y a 1.5/2.5 small in a large sandstone cave overlooking Patonga Creek
• The Post Master General's Retreat GC831AR a 2/3 regular at the end of a fair hike along the PMG Trail in Brisbane Water National Park, with nice views over the Patonga Creek valley at GZ
• Rock Tunnel GC4ZQTF a 2/2.5 small at an interesting rock formation on Blackwall Mountain
• Forgotten Lookout GC690V4 a 2/3 small at an old but scenic lookout on Blackwall Mountain
• Look Out William! GCAB2PJ a 1.5/3 small on Kincumba Mountain overlooking Brisbane Water

These caches rarely get finds now (Look Out William! has had five finds in two years, the most recent over a year ago), I guess because all the new players are looking for non-existent terrain 1 or 1.5 regulars and larges on the side of the road.

[+edexter]

I recently had a couple of folks write logs along the lines of "It wasn't there" while posting a "Needs Owners Attention" log.  Upon chatting with them, both were newbies using the geocaching.app on their phone.  To replicate thier expierience, I did the same thing and was very surprised at how little of the cache page was represented:  as displayed there was no way to understand to how to proceed.  Using the "view in browser" option, made things clear but they had no idea about that either.  I generally suggest that newbies "do some easy caches first" before they jump in the deep end.  

[+GeoElmo6000]

On 5/26/2025 at 4:21 PM, Moun10Bike said:

 

This is not an accurate representation of how the game is presented to new accounts in the app. There is what we call a First-Time User Experience (FTUE) that tries to direct new users to caches with which a new user will have a high likelihood of success. These are generally traditional caches with low difficulty ratings that have been found recently and don't have recent DNFs. They are labeled as "For You" on the map and marked as "Recommended for new cachers". The closest of these options is pre-selected for the user in the app in an effort to encourage them to start there. We don't prevent them from choosing another option, though.

 

I love geocaching and have been a big evangelist of the game for more than a decade, but the one thing that bothers me is how the geocaching app represents "premium" caches.  If a basic member clicks on a greyed out cache, it'll tell them they need premium membership, even if it's not a premium-only cache.  I understand that Groundspeak is a business, but allowing users access to all basic level caches via the website but not via the app is strange.  In my opinion, the app should be a mobile extension of the website; I don't know any other examples of businesses that restrict content-access tiers via the app over the website.  Forcing app users to jump to premium when they can get those same caches for free via the website (and not informing them via the app that they have that option) doesn't sit well with me.  Maybe Groundspeak needs to rethink a middle-tier pricing plan, or open up new cache types via the app as users find caches, or something.  Still a great game, this is just my two cents about this issue.

[+funkymunkyzone]

On 6/5/2025 at 10:03 AM, GeoElmo6000 said:

 

I love geocaching and have been a big evangelist of the game for more than a decade, but the one thing that bothers me is how the geocaching app represents "premium" caches.  If a basic member clicks on a greyed out cache, it'll tell them they need premium membership, even if it's not a premium-only cache.  I understand that Groundspeak is a business, but allowing users access to all basic level caches via the website but not via the app is strange.  In my opinion, the app should be a mobile extension of the website; I don't know any other examples of businesses that restrict content-access tiers via the app over the website.  Forcing app users to jump to premium when they can get those same caches for free via the website (and not informing them via the app that they have that option) doesn't sit well with me.  Maybe Groundspeak needs to rethink a middle-tier pricing plan, or open up new cache types via the app as users find caches, or something.  Still a great game, this is just my two cents about this issue.

 

Careful GE6000, last time I brought this up, I got royally shot down, tarred and feathered by the purists who told me that new players should buy a GPSr and use the website!

 

But no, I 100% agree with you.  Some years back I was trying to introduce a new player - they were standing on top of a mountain and I was on the phone to them. I knew there was a cache within 10 or 20m of them, so I was trying to talk them through loading it up in the app so they could find it, with my remote assistance. They were an active hiker, so geocaching would have been a good fit.  The app told them the cache didn't exist (because they weren't a premium member, so being a T3 or thereabouts, it was hidden entirely from them).  It makes no sense to force them to use the website, see some coordinates and not be able to do anything with them on their phone standing on top of a mountain, when the app could be perfectly capable of introducing, and luring them, into the game.  Instead, they walked away - no, not because they give up easily, but because it was apparent the game didn't want them to play.  I haven't checked lately if anything has changed for new basic players in the app, but it sounds like it's still unnecessarily restrictive.

Edited June 7 by funkymunkyzone

[+kunarion]

13 hours ago, funkymunkyzone said:

 

Careful GE6000, last time I brought this up, I got royally shot down, tarred and feathered by the purists who told me that new players should buy a GPSr and use the website!

 

But no, I 100% agree with you.  Some years back I was trying to introduce a new player - they were standing on top of a mountain and I was on the phone to them. I knew there was a cache within 10 or 20m of them, so I was trying to talk them through loading it up in the app so they could find it, with my remote assistance. They were an active hiker, so geocaching would have been a good fit.  The app told them the cache didn't exist (because they weren't a premium member, so being a T3 or thereabouts, it was hidden entirely from them).  It makes no sense to force them to use the website, see some coordinates and not be able to do anything with them on their phone standing on top of a mountain, when the app could be perfectly capable of introducing, and luring them, into the game.  Instead, they walked away - no, not because they give up easily, but because it was apparent the game didn't want them to play.  I haven't checked lately if anything has changed for new basic players in the app, but it sounds like it's still unnecessarily restrictive.

 

Next time, help the new player enter the coords as a waypoint and go find the cache -- any cache, including Premium caches when the coords are known.  There's no restriction, but it's slightly less convenient to do it that way.  You pay for convenience.

 

And new cachers should consider buying a GPS and definitely use the web site!  I've cached with groups, and someone pulls an Etrex out of his pocket, and finds the cache before I do.  Yet I have this semi-functional phone App all loaded up, and all manner of tech gadgets in my pack... while this guy has everything in a GPS in his pocket... I get a leetle bit envious...

 

Edited June 7 by kunarion