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Airport Security the Army and men with BIG guns !


Tim & June

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In light of the recent events at airports in the UK, we have temporarily disabled our "Gatwick Bug Hotel" .

 

It's likely that anybody seen walking around with a GPS in the vicinity of any airport at the moment is likely to arouse suspicion.

 

We will leave it up to other cachers to decide if they should do the same to any of their caches in the areas surrounding an airport.

 

They can all be re-instated once the current situation is resolved of course.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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On the subject of current global affairs, if War broke out in the Gulf, what would be the likelihood that 'selective availability' would be turned back on, thus ending our activities?

 

(yes I do realise geocaching would be the least of anybody's cares in that eventuality, I was just wondering if anybody had any insight into the whys and wherefores of GPS in times of war)

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I am sure that Cachers and Ramblers will be aware of areas that will be sensitive during the current situation. I will not, for one, be wandering along the marshland that is beneath my local airport flightpath, not for any other reason than to not overburden the police and other security personell. They have enough to do looking out for real terorrists.

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill D (wwh):

Selective Availability as it was used prior to May 2000 applied worldwide. But the technology now exists to enable it to be imposed on a regional basis, for example applying it to a Middle East war zone but not elsewhere. I don't think there's any real likelihood that we're going to see it back on a worldwide scale.

 

Bill


 

Curious, but I've always thought that in the event of war, they'd want to have SA *on* at home, and *off* in the war zone - on the basis that you'd like to know exactly where you are in the region where the trouble is, and you'd like to complicate the accurate delivery of munitions in the homelands...

 

Isn't this what WAAS is going to be all about? they can permanently degrade the main GPS signals worldwide, and selectively improve matters in 'appropriate' areas using WAAS - look at the coverage areas for each WAAS satellite....

 

just my 0.02Euro...

 

G.

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quote:
Originally posted by The Wombles:

quote:
Originally posted by Tim & June:

In light of the recent events at airports in the UK, we have temporarily disabled our "Gatwick Bug Hotel" .


 

Good point. Heathrow and Birmingham Bug Hotels are likewise temporarily unavailable.

 

Dave


 

Almost certainly a good idea. However what about the bugs already in residence? Would it be a good idea for the hotels' 'management' to retrieve any residents and distribute them around non-sensitive caches?

 

_________________________________________________________

 

It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do.

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Considering that the police around Heathrow have set up road blocks, and the army have been searching Windsor Great Park...

 

As they are apparently looking for evidence of a plot to shoot down an airplane, what do you suppose would happen were they, or perhaps a member of the public were to come across a hidden tupperware container, or especially a hidden ammo box?

 

Having said that being stopped at a road block with an ammo can in the back of the car could be interesting as well...

 

Richard

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quote:
Originally posted by Richard & Beth:

Considering that the police around Heathrow have set up road blocks, and the army have been searching Windsor Great Park...

 

As they are apparently looking for evidence of a plot to shoot down an airplane, what do you suppose would happen were they, or perhaps a member of the public were to come across a hidden tupperware container, or especially a hidden ammo box?

 

Having said that being stopped at a road block with an ammo can in the back of the car could be interesting as well...

 

Richard


Ammo boxes are something which I would never use regardless of the sercurity situation, Any one finding an ammo box just by chance are going to think i's a bit suspious and would probably inform the authorities anyway, If I wasn't a geocacher and came across one hidden somewhere , my first thought would be , this should not be here, and what does it contain .

apart from that , how many of you that use ammo boxes bother to re-paint them so that the serial number and class type no's have been covered over? or do you just hide them as you have bought them? and for those of you that have not painted them , then they should be collected and painted over and then and only then, re-hidden

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quote:
Originally posted by The Hornet:

 

Almost certainly a good idea. However what about the bugs already in residence? Would it be a good idea for the hotels' 'management' to retrieve any residents and distribute them around non-sensitive caches?

 


 

We do not anticipate the present situation with extra security at the airports lasting more than a couple of weeks. However we agree should this not be the case we will review the situation and rescue the stranded travellers at our 'Hotel'.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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Originally posted by geomania:

............. and you'd like to complicate the accurate delivery of munitions in the homelands...

/QUOTE]

 

If, heaven forbid, it comes to that, I don't think it will matter too much if a nuke, biological or chemical warhead hits me bang on the head or only manages to get within a 100 yards of me. icon_frown.gificon_frown.gificon_frown.gif

 

John

 

Age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

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quote:
Originally posted by The Northumbrian:

how many of you that use ammo boxes bother to re-paint them so that the serial number and class type no's have been covered over? or do you just hide them as you have bought them? and for those of you that have not painted them , then they should be collected and painted over and then and only then, re-hidden


 

We always repaint our ammo cans, then mark them up with www.geocaching.com, harmless contents, do not remove etc etc.

 

We have even tried producing some posters similar to the stickers sold through GC.com and coated them with a waterproof plastic. Just use common sense when using ammo boxes.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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[

 

We always repaint our ammo cans, then mark them up with http://www.geocaching.com, harmless contents, do not remove etc etc.

 

We have even tried producing some posters similar to the stickers sold through GC.com and coated them with a waterproof plastic. Just use common sense when using ammo boxes.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

A good idea , others if there are any, can learn from your way of disgiusing them . I used to use them to put contraband items , Matches . cigs and sweets when working in certain places, and they had to painted red and left in a secure area.

Well done Tim & June

 

edited for spelling

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quote:

Curious, but I've always thought that in the event of war, they'd want to have SA *on* at home, and *off* in the war zone - on the basis that you'd like to know exactly where you are in the region where the trouble is, and you'd like to complicate the accurate delivery of munitions in the homelands...

G.


 

Bear in mind that SA is irrelevant to military use: the proper military kit has full access to full resolution at all times. SA affects just the "domestic" equipment.

 

I aslo seem to remember that there is also a second (military only) transponder on each GPS satellite, so that combined with the "normal" transponder, they can remove atmospheric innacuracies better.

 

Paul

 

Team Blitz

 

White gravel? What white gravel? I can't see any.... heck, who cares!

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We always stick one of those large Offical GC.com stickers onto the side of our ammo boxes and remove/cover over any military info.

 

We even ended up doing a huge round trip to one of our caches as having planted it we realised that there was no sticker on it and it looked far too dodgy!

 

Our Stanstead Hotel will remain open as it is quite a way from the airport and there are loads of people who use the park every day for walking their dogs etc. I see no danger at the moment but if people feel we should shut it down we will.

 

Chris

 

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

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As soon as I'm back from Norfolk this weekend, I think I'll make a round trip to my caches.

 

I always write "harmless contents" and "geocaching.com" on them, along with my user name etc, but I think perhaps I should repaint them also, make them look a little less like Ammo boxes.

 

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

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quote:
Originally posted by Team Blitz:

Bear in mind that SA is irrelevant to military use: the proper military kit has full access to full resolution at all times. SA affects just the "domestic" equipment.


 

I read that the reason they turned off SA in the first Gulf war was because they ran out of military kit, so issued a lot of the troops with "domestic" GPSrs(!)

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quote:
Originally posted by The Good Shepherds:

quote:
Originally posted by Team Blitz:

Bear in mind that SA is irrelevant to military use: the proper military kit has full access to full resolution at all times. SA affects just the "domestic" equipment.


 

I read that the reason they turned off SA in the first Gulf war was because they ran out of military kit, so issued a lot of the troops with "domestic" GPSrs(!)


 

There was an item on TV the other week, about soldiers getting ready to go to Kuwait, and how they were buying loads of extras, and one of the extras was a GPS receiver. Makes a lot of sense really.

 

Team Blitz

 

White gravel? What white gravel? I can't see any.... heck, who cares!

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quote:
Originally posted by The Northumbrian:

apart from that , how many of you that use ammo boxes bother to re-paint them so that the serial number and class type no's have been covered over?


 

We paint over the various numbers on the ammo box and stick an official Geocaching sticker on them also.

 

However, this all for the benefit of cachers because it won't make any difference to the bomb squad. They'll not take any chances with a plastic box either. It was a plastic box that was blown up in Las Vegas as per many previous threads.

 

Dave

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Does anybody think it's time we (as an organisation) let the police in on what we do, officially?

 

I was thinking along the lines of a letter to each of the police forces informing them of the sport, and asking them to disseminate the information to their POLSA's (Police search advisors).

 

In the event of a suspicious package being found, a quick look at GC.com could avert a major situation.

 

I firmly believe that if a cache ever caused the police any concern then it is in the wrong place, but someone is sure to put one somewhere silly eventually.

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Maybe it is a good idea to let the Police know about our pastime, but I think that if they were to come across a suspicious package they would want to act on it quickly and I don't think that they would hang around each time to have a look to see if it could belong to us. I'm sure they would want to dispose of it sooner rather than later! But I suppose it may make them think twice about what the package is if it was visibly marked as a geocache.

Then again, whose to say that with our publicity and more people knowing about our sport, that an incendiary device could be disguised as a cache and made to look perfectly innocent! icon_eek.gif

Or am I taking this a bit too far !! icon_biggrin.gif

Just a thought!

 

Sarah

 

Team Tate

 

Remember - if it's moving, it's not dead...

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quote:
Originally posted by Pharisee:

quote:
Originally posted by geomania:

............. and you'd like to complicate the accurate delivery of munitions in the homelands...

/QUOTE]

 

If, heaven forbid, it comes to that, I don't think it will matter too much if a nuke, biological or chemical warhead hits me bang on the head or only manages to get within a 100 yards of me. icon_frown.gificon_frown.gificon_frown.gif

 

John


 

Yes, quite. However, the wonderful government wouldn't be much worried about the back of *your* head -- they'd be thinking more along the lines of whether *their* bunker would take a hit within 15feet, or 100yards!

 

quote:
Originally posted by Team Blitz:
Originally posted by geomania:

Curious, but I've always thought that in the event of war, they'd want to have SA *on* at home, and *off* in the war zone - on the basis that you'd like to know exactly where you are in the region where the trouble is, and you'd like to complicate the accurate delivery of munitions in the homelands...

G.


 

Bear in mind that SA is irrelevant to military use: the proper military kit has full access to full resolution at all times. SA affects just the "domestic" equipment.


 

Exactly. You wouln't want all these terrorist types rigging something accurate up from 'domestic', freely available gear...

 

quote:
Originally posted by Team Blitz:

I aslo seem to remember that there is also a second (military only) transponder on each GPS satellite, so that combined with the "normal" transponder, they can remove atmospheric innacuracies better.

 

Paul

 

Team Blitz


 

Yes, the L2 frequency carries much more accurate timing information, the decoding of which is the prerogative of the military agencies, and a few other licenced users, These receiver only use the data on the L1 frequancy to make the TTFF manageable.

 

The point is that (essentially) only the military agencies of 'friendly' (to the US) countries have access to the sub-metre accurate L2 service, everyone else has to make do with what 'domestic equipment' (combined with DGPS and/or WAAS) can offer. It therefore makes sense to degrade the performance of that domestic service in friendly areas, whilst leaving things alone in the theatre of operations, for the reasons already pointed out -- i.e shortage of genuine mil-spec GPSrs for issue to ground troops.

 

Sorry, rambling a bit, now... hope this all makes sense ;-)

 

Regards

 

G.

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I've painted all the ammo boxes I use with brown Hammerite paint and have stencilled them clearly (see here).

Of course any terrorist is unlikely to have a box labelled 'Dangerous contents - terrorist material' but hopefully sensibly hidden and labelled boxes should not cause problems. Interestingly in the US, the ammo boxes I found were almost all unpainted and unlabelled.

 

_________________________________________________________

 

It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do.

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quote:
Originally posted by The Hornet:

I've painted all the ammo boxes I use with brown Hammerite paint and have stencilled them clearly (see http://www.pgh.d2g.com/geocaching/ammobox.jpg).

 


Brilliant idea! One problem, what if some terrorist uses this for a dastardly deed? It's probably best to leave one in a pub, just to see if any problems arise.

Btw, what is that creature peering from the dark in the upper left side of your photo?

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quote:
Originally posted by Cholo:

[btw, what is that creature peering from the dark in the upper left side of your photo?


 

Strange creature?! That's my barbeque with the usual Euro ce symbol on it. You should take more water with whatever you're drinking icon_wink.gificon_wink.gificon_wink.gificon_wink.gificon_wink.gif

 

_________________________________________________________

 

It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do.

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quote:
In light of the recent events at airports in the UK, we have temporarily disabled our "Gatwick Bug Hotel" .

 

In case anybody has missed the thread over in the general forum, there's been an incident in the U.S. this week where a bridge near a military base was closed + the bomb squad called in, after a "suspicious character" was spotted visiting a cache under the bridge icon_eek.gif - Just goes to show how timely T+J's advice was!!

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I don't know about anyone else but I did a Google search for Stencil Font, found something suitable and downloaded it (it was freeware). I then made up the sign in MS Word and printed it onto some overhead transparency material.

 

Then the tough bit - I cut out the letters with a craft knife. Took a while but was quite easy. Now whenever I want a box labelled I just get out the white spray can and Bob's your uncle!

 

The site I used for the download was: http://simplythebest.net/fonts/stencil_fonts.html

 

_________________________________________________________

 

It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do.

 

[This message was edited by The Hornet on February 28, 2003 at 04:39 AM.]

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In preparation for my cache search in the UK, I have been doing a bit of lurking on your forums. This particular topic does give one pause to think.

The response to current affairs by my government (both national and local) does leave me with a lack of faith. I mean these guys post a couple of National Guard on the Golden Gate bridge as part of Homeland (in)Security. OOH this makes me feel safer.

 

Any suggestions on things I should or should not do. (I have decided not to fly in my camo fatigues, carrying a half dozen ammo boxes.)

 

Haicoole

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I hate to drag up old threads, but this is kinda relevant, so it should really go here.

 

As caching becomes more popular (yet still largely misunderstood), and in the current suspicious (albeit rightly) climate, would now be the time to introduce a standard style cache box? At least, a design that would not be misconstrued as anything else, and only as an option.

 

Perhaps, for example, a waterproof metal container of a different shape to the Ammo Boxes, and clearly printed (whereas Ammo boxes often have old military markings on them... I know I am guilty of this). In other words, something that the average dog walker would not suspect contained ammunition, or a bomb.

 

Not necessarily to replace all caches with, but just as an option. Would also provide conformity btween the caches.

 

Not to step on anyone's toes, of course, it's just an idea that's kicking around inside my head, that's all. Sort of makes sense to me, but everyone else might disagree, and I just wondered what others think.

 

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

 

[This message was edited by Kouros on March 13, 2003 at 05:44 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Kouros:

would now be the time to introduce a standard style cache box? At least, a design that would not be misconstrued as anything else, and only as an option.

 

Perhaps, for example, a waterproof metal container of a different shape to the Ammo Boxes


 

I can think of two objections to this idea which sounds great in principle.

 

  • Caches sometimes need to be tailored to the location. I did Eye Level the day before yesterday - it would certainly need a non standard container

  • a specially designed metal container would neither be easy to get hold of nor cheap.

 

-------

jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

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quote:
Originally posted by jeremyp:

quote:
Originally posted by Kouros:

would now be the time to introduce a standard style cache box? At least, a design that would not be misconstrued as anything else, and only as an option.

 

Perhaps, for example, a waterproof metal container of a different shape to the Ammo Boxes


 

I can think of two objections to this idea which sounds great in principle.

 

+ Caches sometimes need to be tailored to the location. I did Eye Level the day before yesterday - it would certainly need a non standard container

+ a specially designed metal container would neither be easy to get hold of nor cheap.


 

Objections are good!

 

First point... Yeah I understand that sometimes the container needs to be tailored... to that end, the standard cache container could be an optional thing... don't know how well that would work, although the Groundspeak Stickers that are on most caches are fairly common now, and they're optional.

 

Second point... That was a fairly big stumbling block when I was running it through my head too. If done on a big enough scal, the prices would drop, but I fear what the prices would likely to be otherwise. Perhaps someone else on the forums would have the knowledge of how much a suitable standardised container (perhaps with appropriate information already printed on it) would cost.

 

EDIT: Reword

 

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

 

[This message was edited by Kouros on March 13, 2003 at 11:19 AM.]

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