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More about acceptable cache contents I'm afraid


jeremyp

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I did a cache the other day and found it contained a spent cartridge case (i.e. used to contain a bullet) with the end where the bullet used to be crimped shut. My heart nearly stopped when I first saw it because I thought it was live ammunition.

 

Firstly, is this acceptable cache contents? My feeling is that the answer is probably "yes". Secondly what do you do if you do find live ammo?

 

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jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

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I remember a similar thread in the US forums, I can't Markwell I'm afraid. BUt the argument put there was that certain pieces of ammunition (properly rendered safe) were valuable historical items to those in the know.

 

Obviously if you aren't in the know then these things can be frightening, at least and you have no way of being sure that they are safe examples of collectors items.

 

I certainly wouldn't want to be explaining to the authorities that it was just some harmless ammunition I found in an ammo box hidden in the countryside. especially with my address

 

Lance

It's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.

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I found the cache in question tonight. It was in a tupperware container. I think if there were a number of spent balnk cartridge cases in an Amoo box cache it would be another matter.

 

However these spent blank shell cases can be found all over the woodland areas surrounding Aldershot (Where the army practices).

 

I would surmise that it is not a paricularly inspiring thing to find in a cache and to the uneducated could be a bit of a concern but as far as I am concerned I do not see a real problem.

 

I don't thik this short of thing shot be encouraged as cache contents though.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

LASSITUDE- (noun) Tiredness and apathy: a state of weariness accompanied by listlessness or apathy[15th century. Via French from Latin lassitudo , from lassus 'weary'.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Sel:

In fact it seemed pointless to bringing it up. Must we question everything we find in caches now?


I see no harm in questioning anything if I want to. Sometimes you learn something from it.

 

Your statement is grammatically incorrect BTW. "we find" would imply that *you* have found something in a cache. Your profile suggests this is not the case.

 

You failed to address the second part of my post which was not about spent cartridge cases which IMHO is definitely not pointless.

 

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jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

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quote:
Originally posted by jeremyp:

Firstly, is this acceptable cache contents? My feeling is that the answer is probably "yes". Secondly what do you do if you do find live ammo?

 


 

Dead ammo I would say is OK as cache contents, since it is harmless, and may be of collectable value to someone with that hobby.

 

As to what I would do if I found live ammo, I think first I would remove it, then probably take it to the police and say I had found it by the road but wasn't sure how to dispose of it properly (because, to be honest, I don't know how to!). I wouldn't tell them I'd found it in a cache, since that might make them start raising more questions that we need raised. Basically i want a way to take it out of the cache and dispose of it safely. I am open to other suggestions.

 

No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced....

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quote:
Originally posted by jeremyp:

Your statement is grammatically incorrect BTW. "we find" would imply that *you* have found something in a cache. Your profile suggests this is not the case.


 

Ever heard of the "Royal we"? Since I plan to start finding caches as soon as my eTrex arrives in the post, I suggest you think before jumping to conclusions.

 

Anyway, as to ammo....I agree with MCL on the live ammo front (about claiming to have found it by the road). Seems sensible.

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I appear to have got off on the wrong foot with you guys, especially JeremyP.

 

I didn't realise how sensitive you all seem at the moment. I've just read some more posts (I'd only read the complaining ones about cache contents), and it looks like my tongue-in-cheek attempt was a bit off the playing field.

 

I am sorry.

 

I've added some profile info too, so hopefully you guys can 'associate' with me or 'bond' or whatever it is you feel you need to do before you can accept a new cacher as a human being.

 

And by the way: Hello everyone!

 

It's only a hunt for an ammo box - why be so serious?

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If you ever come accross Live Ammo anywere the safest thing to do is secure the area and call the police to the location. unless you are a amunition expert you can not say how stable the find is, and if such finds were to explode it would cause seriouse injuries.even a primer cap off a missfire can cause serious injurie. This is why all millitary personel on leaving a range must state that 'they have no live rounds or empty cases in their possession'.At all times it's best to play it safe

 

I camp to cache!

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If my memory serves me right a case with a crimped end would be a blank round and if the end was still crimped shut that would make it still unfired or "live" in a blank sort of way. A blank round still has the capacity to cause severe damage. When I was in the army cadets we saw a lorry tire being shot at by a blank round and a piece of the crimped part of the case actually came away and punctured the tyre. And yes we used to make the declaration " I have no live/blank rounds or empty cases in my possesion Sir" after every exercise that involved ammo in any shape or form. Definently not a sensible item for a cache in my opinion. Not every one is comfortable with guns and ammo and they will not know what to do with it once found. Guns can be a very touchy subject with some people

 

Hear about the 2 blondes that walked into a bar?

You would of thought at least one of them would of seen it!!

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From time to time I leave the odd musket ball in small cache containers, these musket ball turn up when I am in my fields, the musket balls may be of interest to some as the area was part of a battle site 27th August 1640(Battle of Newburn, I also find stone cannon balls which I pass on to museums

I suppose I must have a few dozen of these lying around, I did come across a live bullet once and handed on to a police officer who happenened to be passing , he took it straight awayback to the police station to a sand bin they have at the back of the police station he told me that regardles of the condition of a live round it was not to be touched and that I should have left it where it was and notified the police BEFORE I picked it up, dropping that bullit and it landing the wrong way make have set it off, But that said, JeremyP was right in bringing this sort of thing to our attention, Its a sort of thing to work on with youngsters and educate then about picking things up, It may even be a good idea not to let young children go on ahead of adults and find the cache box first, well done Jeremy, I wish a lot more were as sensible as you are

Nige

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quote:
Originally posted by The Northumbrian:

From time to time I leave the odd musket ball in small cache containers, these musket ball turn up when I am in my fields, the musket balls may be of interest to some as the area was part of a battle site 27th August 1640


 

How cool is that! I would absolutly love to find a musket ball in a cache. Do you label them or identify them in any way? Next time I'm up in the frozen north I will definatley look out for those.

 

Chris

 

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

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quote:
Originally posted by Sel:

I appear to have got off on the wrong foot with you guys, especially JeremyP.

 

I didn't realise how sensitive you all seem at the moment.


 

It was just the tone of your post and your profile said 0/0 so I assumed that you were a troll and responded in kind icon_smile.gif

 

Back to the topic:

 

I wasn't too concerned in the case I described above, but Naefearjustbeer's post makes me think it *might* be an unfired blank. I'm going to do some research and try to find out.

 

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jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

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But just to reinforce it.

Old Ammo gets VERY unstable as it chemically breaks down & having seen it handled in the past for disposal I was surprised at how carefully it is handled by an expert. (It made me think)

As for blanks.

Blanks for Automatics tend to have a brightly coloured plastic tip & are easily identifiable (& still dangerous)

Revolver blanks can be all brass with a crimped end.

If the bullet you found had a very neatly done (machined looking) crimp at the end then i would say it would be fair to assume its a blank.

 

I would not like to anything like a bullet in a Cache. (although like Chris n Maria I would love a musket ball!)

 

We take our children everywhere, but they always find their way back home...

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quote:
Originally posted by Chris n Maria:

quote:
Originally posted by The Northumbrian:

From time to time I leave the odd musket ball in small cache containers, these musket ball turn up when I am in my fields, the musket balls may be of interest to some as the area was part of a battle site 27th August 1640


 

How cool is that! I would absolutly love to find a musket ball in a cache. Do you label them or identify them in any way? Next time I'm up in the frozen north I will definatley look out for those.

 

Chris

 

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

then I shall leave a few more out. Its not so long ago that I used to carry out work for the department of the enviroment and was working on a roman site building some steps, they had to look as though they had been there a very very long time, during the excavting for these steps I kept finding bits of pottery, i kept taking it to the curators of the site who told me that it was vespucian and that there was tons of the stuff lying around, he told me i could keep a few of the small bits, so I took them to a local infants school. the 7&8 year old were at that time learning about Hadrians wall and so they were now able to handle something that they were learning about, loads of smiley faces in the class room that day,and the Head sent me such a nice letter

it's funny how little things that you do can make a great difference to other's,

Nige

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North Wales Police have reported the find of a loaded Uzi SMG, dumped in a bag in Conway. As this find was the full front page of local north wales papers, imagine if a non geocaching comunity member finds a cache which contains a spent round. Anyone who has or intends to place amunition in a cache please think about the posible conequence such a find could have this game. As the above find was reported anonymously North Wales Police are currently on hightened alert. Mancunian

 

I camp to cache!

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O.K. I will put my hands up that I have included fired rounds in a cache.

 

In my opinion they are quite safe, they were clearly marked and looked like used rounds. I thought they were interesting as they were from a "Dirty Harry" Magnum which I fired on a trip to The States.

 

Recently however the cache went walkabout and thanks to the help of Dan Wilson (it's a long story which I will post a seperate topic on) I was able to recover it from Cardiff Police Station.

 

The Police had "destroyed" the cartridges as they viewed them as a dangerous item. I thought it wise not to ask too many questions but do feel that they had no right to destroy my property, this is something that I have no intention of pursuing I just feel it was a little bit of an over reaction .

 

The above incident, the current heightened security situation and other forum posts now make me think very carefully as to what constitutes acceptable cache contents.

 

I would probably not now include spent cartridges, alcohol, batteries, sweets, drinks and the list can go on and on. I think soon the question will be what can we put in rather than what can't we put in which is a great shame.

 

Dave

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The cache owner told me that the case in question was spent and not dangerous. He's taken it out anyway.

 

I don't think there is any problem with empty cartridge cases myself unless somebody with experience in the field of firearms tells me otherwise. I think the difference between a spent cartridge case and a loaded Uzi submachine gun is several orders of magnitude and a geocache with a dead bullet in it probably won't make the front page of any newspaper.

 

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jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

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quote:
Originally posted by jeremyp:

The cache owner told me that the case in question was spent and not dangerous. He's taken it out anyway.

 

I don't think there is any problem with empty cartridge cases myself unless somebody with experience in the field of firearms tells me otherwise. I think the difference between a spent cartridge case and a loaded Uzi submachine gun is several orders of magnitude and a geocache with a dead bullet in it probably won't make the front page of any newspaper.

 

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jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

 

As the gekos post shows the police view on spent ammo is diferent, say joe public with the full page picture of the Uzi in his head had found that cache, the result could have been armed police watching for the next person to find it on a just in case scenario. If that cacher had children with them think how frightening it would be for them. I know this is a what if scenario, but this is the piont i was trying to get across with my first post. I personaly have no problem with anyone collecting spent/Demo rounds, but What we consider acceptable in caches other people dont, which can cause problems.

 

I camp to cache!

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quote:
Originally posted by Mancunian:

Say joe public with the full page picture of the Uzi in his head had found that cache, the result could have been armed police watching for the next person to find it on a just in case scenario.


I would hope that the armed police would have a better sense of perspective. People who get hysterical about spent bullets should not be allowed out with guns. And before you bring up the case above again, there is a difference between safely disposing of possibly dangerous ammo and staking out a cache with a SWAT team.

 

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jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

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I can remember doing a D&P cache last year and fining over 30 of them underneath the cache and in the surrounding 10 metres. This did not worry me though as in an area of countryside shooting has to be accepted and expected and so i just ignored it and removed as many as i cud carry to a road side bin.

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Dan n Pid,

 

maybe you could take Sel out night-caching: harder to tell if spent bullets are the real McCoy by torchlight... icon_wink.gif

 

Seriously tho, I used to collect spent blank rounds as a kid. Had an impressive collection of about 60-ish until my mum found them: one quick visit from the boys in blue put me off: well, being told at the age of 7 that "you could have lost a hand if you'd found a live one" would put off most folks... IMHO I'd say don't put 'em in cache.

 

Neutiquam erro.

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Cheers for the support Pid, and shame on all you others!

 

No, I'm not related to Pid. I've no idea who that particular mainac (I've been reading some of his cache pages and previous forum posts) is...

 

Hmm, I failed on one of his caches today too. My ETrex still hasn't arrived (plan to phone the suppleirs tomorrow), so I converted to OS coordinates, looked it up on my map, and thought "How hard can it be?", and went there.

It was only after an hour's searching that I realised that 6-digit Os coords will only get me to within 100 metres! Ooops.

 

--

Why'd ya have to go and make things so complicated?

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What exactly is this whole night-caching thing anyway?

Do Dan and Pid really go out in the middle of the night looking for caches?

 

Isn't that just dumb, given how hard it already seems in the light?

As to that combining with recent fears, won't being discovered at night, rummaging around for a cache, just increase suspicions?

 

I've yet to find my first cache, I don't want this sport banned before I can!

 

--

Why'd ya have to go and make things so complicated?

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quote:
Originally posted by Sel:

What exactly is this whole night-caching thing anyway?


 

Well, you, like, go out caching in the dark. A torch is pretty essential though!

 

quote:

Do Dan and Pid really go out in the middle of the night looking for caches?


 

Note sure about "middle of the night", but certainly late at night. The main reason is that they both work during the day, so evenings is the only time they have free.

 

Michael & I did some night-caching over the new year whilst on holiday in Yorkshire: that was for similar reasons.... I mean, when it gets dark at 4pm, you don't have a lot of time for "caching in the light"!

 

We even did a couple of night-caches with my 79 year old mum! We were on the way back from the NY Moors, and stopped at Goathland Station (VERY low risk there... the station lights were still on!!!), and another place on the way.....

 

quote:

Isn't that just dumb, given how hard it already seems in the light?


 

You MUST be selective about the ones you do at night. Some could be pretty dangerous.

 

Most of *MY* night-caching has been with my son, and we always make sure we have mobile phones, just in case. Have done a couple by myself in the dark, and felt a LOT more apprehensive (but it was still fun!)

 

quote:

As to that combining with recent fears, won't being discovered at night, rummaging around for a cache, just increase suspicions?


 

It means that you need to be very much more aware of what you are doing, if you are in a location where you may be spotted... like being a bit more careful where you shine your torch etc

 

quote:

I've yet to find my first cache, I don't want this sport banned before I can!


 

Lol!

 

We'll try to keep it alive!

 

But after you've done a dozen or two caches, you should try one (go for a simple one) in the dark: it's VERY different, but good fun (but don't forget to take plenty of spare batteries for torches / GPSes, and DO take a compass!)

 

Paul

 

Team Blitz

 

Noone in their right mind would place a cache THERE....

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I have frequently found shotgun cases in woods used for game but don't consider them as dangerous. You don't normaly (ever?) find rifle cases so perhaps they collectable.

 

A live round would be worrying but as no one has found one in a cache (has anyone found one?) then the danger would be negligible.

 

Perhaps a photo of a live round and a used round - shotgun and rifle - would be useful for those who don't know the difference. An internet search may help.

 

Andy.

 

----------------------------------------

All our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike-and yet it is the most precious thing we have - Albert Einstein

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From the distant past this sounds like a blank cartridge. If the cap on the end is smooth it is probably live. If the crimping is open and there is an indent in the end cap, then it has been fired. Dont throw it on a fire.

quote:
Originally posted by jeremyp:

I did a cache the other day and found it contained a spent cartridge case (i.e. used to contain a bullet) with the end where the bullet used to be crimped shut. My heart nearly stopped when I first saw it because I thought it was live ammunition.

 

Firstly, is this acceptable cache contents? My feeling is that the answer is probably "yes". Secondly what do you do if you do find live ammo?

 

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jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

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quote:
Originally posted by Sel:

What exactly is this whole night-caching thing anyway?


 

It's where complete nutters go out looking for geocaches under cover of darkness for the simple reason that they like the challenge. Or for the simple reason that they are nutters. I can't quite decide which...

 

quote:
Do Dan and Pid really go out in the middle of the night looking for caches?

 

I refer the honourable member to the answer I gave a moment ago...

 

quote:
Isn't that just dumb, given how hard it already seems in the light?

 

I refer the honourable member to the answer I gave some moments ago....

 

quote:
As to that combining with recent fears, won't being discovered at night, rummaging around for a cache, just increase suspicions?

 

Wot you mean from people with guns 'n things? Nice people who surround you and scare the shhh.. the living nightlights out of you? Nice people who really ought to be locked up somewhere and the key thrown away?

 

Oh yes. You get those. Interesting isn't it?

 

'Dan and Pid have been called many things....' On here I call them entertainment. They are seriously funny, and enormously brave. I take my hat off to them. Nutters, the pair of them...

 

No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced....

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quote:
Originally posted by Sel:

What exactly is this whole night-caching thing anyway?

Do Dan and Pid really go out in the middle of the night looking for caches?

 


Be wary, me lad. These blokes may offer to guide you on a 'snipe hunt'. The excuse would be to orient you in night hunting. If they give you a stick and potato sack and offer to flush out the snipe towards you, politely decline.

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quote:
Originally posted by MCL:

quote:
As to that combining with recent fears, won't being discovered at night, rummaging around for a cache, just increase suspicions?

 

Wot you mean from people with guns 'n things? Nice people who surround you and scare the shhh.. the living nightlights out of you? Nice people who really ought to be locked up somewhere and the key thrown away?


 

No, I mean that in the current terrorism climate and general decline of society, won't rummaging in undergrowth, or anywhere else for that matter, at night, be considered as dodgy/suspicious?

 

I'm not talking about being on people's land at night, but more having anyone that sees you phone the Police....

 

As I said, i don't want this sport banned before I can find my first cache!

 

Etrex update: Globalpositioningsystems said they sent out my GPS last week, so ought to be here by now. Am now getting on to the Royal Mail...

 

--

Why'd ya have to go and make things so complicated?

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