Guest el10t Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 So is anyone in the UK a charter member yet? http://forums.Groundspeak.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002183.html I think on the whole, I would be willing to stump up the readies. The Geocache website seems pretty good to me. How do they get income at present? [This message has been edited by el10t (edited 05 March 2002).] Quote Link to comment
Guest jeremyp Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 I'm very tempted to go for this. The alternative is probably the web site grinding to a complete halt under the weight of traffic or the site being covered with adverts. Quote Link to comment
Guest Nicky Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 I've just tried but Paypal won't accept my payment. I registered for Paypal some time ago (the account is active) but Groundspeak won't accept international payments! Looks like it'll have to be international money orders unless Jeremy changes his Paypal membership; I'll mail him. Personally I'd like to join - I enjoy Geocaching, the facilities are excellent and I'm willing to pay for my hobbies. They don't get any better value than this. Quote Link to comment
Guest Kimrobin Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Dave & Nicky:They don't get any better value than this. Agreed, but I'm still not comfortable with having two classes of geocachers. alex. Quote Link to comment
Guest chris n maria Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Dave & Nicky:I've just tried but Paypal won't accept my payment. I registered for Paypal some time ago (the account is active) but Groundspeak won't accept international payments! Looks like it'll have to be international money orders unless Jeremy changes his Paypal membership; I'll mail him. Personally I'd like to join - I enjoy Geocaching, the facilities are excellent and I'm willing to pay for my hobbies. They don't get any better value than this. I tried to Donate as well but failed. Don't even think of signing up to Paypal with a UK Amex card - it just don't seem to work. ------------------ Chris We are not lost, we just don't know where we are.. Quote Link to comment
Guest jeremyp Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Kimrobin: Agreed, but I'm still not comfortable with having two classes of geocachers. alex. I was talking purely in terms of supporting the site. Good quality web sites need a lot of cash (pun intended) to keep them going. I'm very uncomfortable about the idea of "premium rate caches". Quote Link to comment
Guest swampie Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 I'm all in favour of raising money to keep the site running, and keep it improving, but I'm not happy that people will be looked down on because they are not members of the paying elite. s. one of the great unwashed Quote Link to comment
Guest swampie Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 I'm all in favour of raising money to keep the site running, and keep it improving, but I'm not happy that people will be looked down on because they are not members of the paying elite. s. one of the great unwashed Quote Link to comment
Guest el10t Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 A quick poll of the views so far suggests that the majority are in favour of making payments (to help maintain the site) but against a two-tier, possibly elitist, system. Are we as a group, therefore, opting for a one-tier system where everybody has to pay to access cache pages? (!) [This message has been edited by el10t (edited 06 March 2002).] Quote Link to comment
Guest swampie Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 quote:Originally posted by el10t:Are we as a group, therefore, opting for a one-tier system where everybody has to pay to access cache pages? (!) [This message has been edited by el10t (edited 06 March 2002).] Nope, I'm quite happy that people can pay if they want. I just don't think it's right that everone else can see who has paid and who hasn't. It's the old "free school dinners" thing all over again. The "Charter Member" logo should not appear on the profile pages. s. Quote Link to comment
Guest el10t Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 quote:Originally posted by swampie: Nope, I'm quite happy that people can pay if they want. I just don't think it's right that everone else can see who has paid and who hasn't. It's the old "free school dinners" thing all over again. The "Charter Member" logo should not appear on the profile pages. Fair point regarding the logo and possible stigma attached. It doesn't address the issue of "premium caches" though, those available only to subscribed members. Quote Link to comment
Guest Nicky Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 I also dislike a two-tier membership system (and charter member logos) but want to protect my hobby from system crashes and problems as a result of poor (or zero) funding. We're all promoting Geocaching and this will bring more system load which means it can't continue as a cottage industry. That means funding, whether from advertising, sponsorship, linked sales or membership. Personally I like the idea of payment from everyone, but as soon as you ask people for money it all gets very emotive. Hence the voluntary subscription. There are other alteratives - first 5 caches free etc etc. But my bottom line is that geocaching has to be properly funded to protect these facilties which are essential to our hobby. Dave [This message has been edited by Dave & Nicky (edited 06 March 2002).] Quote Link to comment
Guest chris n maria Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Dave & Nicky:I've just tried but Paypal won't accept my payment. I registered for Paypal some time ago (the account is active) but Groundspeak won't accept international payments! Looks like it'll have to be international money orders unless Jeremy changes his Paypal membership; I'll mail him. Personally I'd like to join - I enjoy Geocaching, the facilities are excellent and I'm willing to pay for my hobbies. They don't get any better value than this. judging from this thread: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002186.html the international payment problems have been fixed. ------------------ Chris We are not lost, we just don't know where we are.. Quote Link to comment
Guest Nicky Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 Thanks Chris, you're right - I've just tried it and it now works. wrt your Paypal problem with Amex, I signed up with a Mastercard, maybe they just don't like Amex. Dave Quote Link to comment
Guest chris n maria Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Dave & Nicky:Thanks Chris, you're right - I've just tried it and it now works. wrt your Paypal problem with Amex, I signed up with a Mastercard, maybe they just don't like Amex. Dave I think you are right - you are supposed to get a four digit number back when they take $1.50 off your card but I got 11 digits & the first 4 or last 4 don't Work. Ho Hum. I'll update here if Paypals customer support ever come back to me. Would pay with the Visa but I'm loathed to give them more money and more importantly Maria sees the Bill for that Card ------------------ Chris We are not lost, we just don't know where we are.. Quote Link to comment
Guest chris n maria Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Dave & Nicky:Thanks Chris, you're right - I've just tried it and it now works. wrt your Paypal problem with Amex, I signed up with a Mastercard, maybe they just don't like Amex. Dave I think you are right - you are supposed to get a four digit number back when they take $1.50 off your card but I got 11 digits & the first 4 or last 4 don't Work. Ho Hum. I'll update here if Paypals customer support ever come back to me. Would pay with the Visa but I'm loathed to give them more money and more importantly Maria sees the Bill for that Card ------------------ Chris We are not lost, we just don't know where we are.. Quote Link to comment
Guest jeremyp Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 quote:Originally posted by el10t: Are we as a group, therefore, opting for a one-tier system where everybody has to pay to access cache pages? (!) [This message has been edited by el10t (edited 06 March 2002).] I'm in favour of a one tier site where nobody has to pay to do any caches and the payment is seen as a strictly voluntary donation. Quote Link to comment
Guest el10t Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 quote:Originally posted by jeremyp: I'm in favour of a one tier site where nobody has to pay to do any caches and the payment is seen as a strictly voluntary donation. Yes but unfortunately that model, the current one, isn't working which is why it is changing. (edited - I meant "in danger of collapsing" rather than "isn't working") [This message has been edited by el10t (edited 06 March 2002).] Quote Link to comment
Guest di Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 Are we going to be paying for the right of searching for caches or the update of the web site, and some more facilities, there is a subtle difference? The latter is OK by me. I am in favour for paying for the upkeep of the website, I also am in favour for a two tier caches system, if there is a difference in the two sets of caches. Don?t get me wrong I am not saying that we should make the sport elitist. However occasionally where someone sets up a ?special? cache to a specific set of criteria it is only released to members, or released to members in the first instance. Criteria could be any of the following: - To reduce the amount of people attending a place of special interest where too much traffic could be harmful to the environment A special celebration A special list of goodies David [This message has been edited by david & di (edited 06 March 2002).] Quote Link to comment
Guest VentureForth Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 From what I understand, it is the general concensus that most caches would still be in the public domain. Those that aren't would be at the descretion of the hider. There will still be plenty of new caches by non-charter members, and charter members will probably still tend to place public caches. It is in the interest of the hider to a) Place a cache that will be found and protect their investments. If a charter member would like to continue to have people finding his stache, then he will make it public. If he places a very special one that he wants to protect and knows that he can trust charter members, he may choose to restrict that one. All in all, I think it's a great idea. This seems to be Jeremy's full time job, and he doesn't even have any advertising. In fact I think he said the T-Shirts that were sold on Groundspeak.com were originally made in a garage! I'll get the little icon when I get paid. I think it's worth it. ------------------ VentureForth out to the wild, wet forest... Quote Link to comment
Guest swampie Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 quote:Originally posted by el10t:So is anyone in the UK a charter member yet? No, I'm a Country Member. s. Quote Link to comment
Guest LazyLeopard Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 Hmmm... I'd prefer a sliding scale, or at least some choice other than pay/don't pay. I'd like a practical option for paying other than PayPal. (International Money Orders are not practical for the kinds of sums involved here.) I'd like the option not to have my has/hasn't paid status displayed to all and sundry, and to not have other folks status shoved in my face. I'd like the option to restrict access to information about caches I've hidden to prevent un-registered individuals seeing them, but I don't think I'd use an option to restrict accesss depending on whether a registered user has paid or not. ------------------ Purrs... LazyLeopard http://www.lazyleopard.org.uk Quote Link to comment
Guest jeremyp Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 quote:Originally posted by el10t: Yes but unfortunately that model, the current one, isn't working which is why it is changing. (edited - I meant "in danger of collapsing" rather than "isn't working") The model isn't in danger of collapsing AFAIK it is working pretty well. It's the servers that are in danger of collapsing. I wasn't aware until this thread came up that you could donate cash to the web-site. What I would be worried about is the subscription putting new people off especially - thinking about it - if other sites exist that don't charge. I recognise that there probably needs to be some incentive to persuade people to part with their money but I'm still worried about the implications of having restricted caches. How about, they become derestricted after a period of time say 6 months or a year. Quote Link to comment
el10t Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 No. The model I was referring to was the whole system - infrastructure included, including the servers, bandwidth, the fact that Jeremy is only working part time on the project when he says he needs to work on it full time etc etc. The current donation method, which you said you preferred in your previous posting, isn't sufficient to finance all this. Therefore all this is in danger of collapse. El10t Quote Link to comment
+Nia Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 well i see that Timp have worked out how to pay. also every one in this thread is a Guest except me and El10t we are Geocachers Quote Link to comment
+naffita Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 I don't think there should be a two tier membership with regard to caches, the sport would not get many new members if a fee of thirty dollars was demanded before you could start. But, voluntary donations will probably have to be made to keep the site up and running. Nothing comes for free nowadays. naffita Quote Link to comment
LazyLeopard Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 quote:the sport would not get many new members if a fee of thirty dollars was demanded before you could start. Sure wouldn't. I do see some advantage in limiting access to those who have registered. I hope registering on the site remains free (as it is at present). Purrs... LazyLeopard http://www.lazyleopard.org.uk Quote Link to comment
+mdshamilton Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 I would be very happy to pay a small annual fee - and think this is only fair to help support such an excellent site. However, beyond this forum, there is no guidance as to what the fee levels are, and what benefits you get for donating (forum members mention charter membership etc...but there is no info about this). If there are no benefits then there is little "encouragement" to donate. I would suggest that only "members" are allowed to make any postings to the website. Allow non-contributors to read everything on the site, but only members should be allowed to post their site visits, watch caches etc. In order to ensure that the site continues to survive not just in 2002, but into future years, the fee should be a small annual fee (say $10 to $15 a year?) to ensure that only "active" members are allowed to post to the site. This also ensures that the site maintains a regular income to meet it's bills. The last thing I would want is to pay $30 to join, only to find that the site folds in 6 months' time. At the end of the day, it is people who create caches, post their visits etc who utilise the site's disk space, server and other resources - and should therefore pay a small annual amount. Does anyone agree with this suggestion? Mark Mark Quote Link to comment
Runemaster Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Well I thought I ought to pay... enjoyed it so far would be a shame to see it go under for the sake of 20 quid Having said that... it doesnt show as charter member Quote Link to comment
Runemaster Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Well I thought I ought to pay... enjoyed it so far would be a shame to see it go under for the sake of 20 quid Having said that... it doesnt show as charter member Quote Link to comment
Runemaster Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Monz: Well I thought I ought to pay... enjoyed it so far would be a shame to see it go under for the sake of 20 quid Having said that... it doesnt show as charter member And another try...... Quote Link to comment
Runemaster Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Monz: Well I thought I ought to pay... enjoyed it so far would be a shame to see it go under for the sake of 20 quid Having said that... it doesnt show as charter member And another try...... Quote Link to comment
Chudley Cannons Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Monz: Well I thought I ought to pay... enjoyed it so far would be a shame to see it go under for the sake of 20 quid Having said that... it doesn't show as charter member I found a way of doing it on the cheap swampie Quote Link to comment
Chudley Cannons Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Monz: Well I thought I ought to pay... enjoyed it so far would be a shame to see it go under for the sake of 20 quid Having said that... it doesn't show as charter member I found a way of doing it on the cheap swampie Quote Link to comment
el10t Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Nia: well i see that Timp have worked out how to pay. also every one in this thread is a Guest except me and El10t we are Geocachers I think I am a CM now too El10t Quote Link to comment
el10t Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Nia: well i see that Timp have worked out how to pay. also every one in this thread is a Guest except me and El10t we are Geocachers I think I am a CM now too El10t Quote Link to comment
Runemaster Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Charter Member: I found a way of doing it on the cheap swampie Nice one... nearly wet myself when I saw that Quote Link to comment
Runemaster Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Charter Member: I found a way of doing it on the cheap swampie Nice one... nearly wet myself when I saw that Quote Link to comment
+Chris n Maria Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 quote:Originally posted by chris n maria:I tried to Donate as well but failed. Don't even think of signing up to Paypal with a UK Amex card - it just don't seem to work. Spoke to Amex this morning and there is apparently a known problem with PayPal - they are looking into it. I'll post here if they ever get it fixed. Chris "We're not lost - we just don't know where we are" Quote Link to comment
+Chris n Maria Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 quote:Originally posted by chris n maria:I tried to Donate as well but failed. Don't even think of signing up to Paypal with a UK Amex card - it just don't seem to work. Spoke to Amex this morning and there is apparently a known problem with PayPal - they are looking into it. I'll post here if they ever get it fixed. Chris "We're not lost - we just don't know where we are" Quote Link to comment
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