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Groundhog Day


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I suppose I’m a llort, the opposite of a troll, an interfering old git with too much time on his hands, posting where he doesn’t belong, to be constructive, not destructive. Now seems a good moment.

I’m a country lover and have followed your threads with interest and something very plain and simple occurs to me. I hope you’ll not bother wasting good debating time by attacking me for saying it as I’m both impervious and irrelevant, but instead that you’ll give my ideas some thought. My only authority for saying anything is that perhaps an outsider can see the wood for the trees when it’s less obvious to those more closely concerned. So here goes:

 

Geocaching as it stands will ALWAYS be in trouble, because of one very simple and rectifiable problem: the caches themselves. It is those alone that are at the bottom of ALL your problems, and those alone that need rectifying. You say that the main fun of your sport is the thrill of the chase and going out in the countryside. So 99.9% of what you do is totally praiseworthy, totally simple and totally without opponents. So just imagine, if you could rectify the cache problem you’d have zero problems.

Setting aside how you do it for a moment, the result would be:

 

No more access problems, anywhere!

(Consider this: you are an agent for a major landowner; people come to you and say “can we leave stuff, we have very tight rules”; you ring you’re insurers and say “can I say yes?”; they say: “but there’s an unquantifiable risk here; sooner or later someone will break the rules, we’re dealing with human beings. When that happens, and harm arises, as it will in one of a zillion conceivable ways, it will be you, Mr Landowner that will have opened us up to the Third Party liability. So no, you must not give assent, even if they say they’re all saints.

OK, you’ve had some recent success, but if you’re realistic you’ll know it could take just one bad egg, one blaze of publicity and it would all fall down. And no sport can regulate against one bad egg.

 

No need for irksome rules!

(Why would you need them, when everything you are doing is seen as praiseworthy and risk-free?)

 

No more of this endless quarrelling.

(If you check the threads, almost every harsh word is related to cache problems).

 

No bad publicity or accusations of littering!

(Bear in mind, though you may regard the ModAnts as unjust and unpleasant, they only reacted because they became aware of you. How many more episodes like that are you going to face from other groups and interests who suddenly discover you? They too may be wrong and unjust, but do you want to go through it all again and again?)

 

No fear of being regarded as anoraks or concern that you’ll be laughed at on television!How many innocent passtimes have that sort of worry hanging over them? Only yours!

(I have to tell you, as an outsider, that it’s the fact that your caches contain “Woolworth’s treasure” that is the sole reason you strike people as geeky. They find it hard to equate this with grown-ups. Please don’t be offended, I’m just telling you the truth).

 

So I ask myself, since you probably know all this, why do you persist with the form of your caches? The only explanation that I’ve seen is that it’s to give extra fun to your children. Well, fair enough, but apart from the fact that not all of you have children, I still wonder why you can’t do that in some other way. You seem to be paying a heavy price for having a “treasure” aspect, when another approach would give the kids just as much fun.

 

As to how you should change the nature of your caches, that’s up to you, and a matter for debate. You could go down the “virtual” route, but I can quite see that something might be lost there. Or you could change them physically. The options are endless…a simple brass disk that people replace with their own? How would that work? (I don’t know, it’s up to you!) A biodegradable wickerwork box that disappears in a few months? (why should you bother with monitoring and revisiting caches? Where’s the fun in that?) containing a password so people can prove they’ve found it, and another for the kids that can be used to buy sweets in the local shop (if they show their geocaching ID), where you’ve deposited a fiver? Yes, I know, I know, the money would run out, but so what, it’s a hard world, kids have to learn that! And think how keen they’d be to get to a new cache before anyone else! Maybe that wouldn’t work but there must be thousands of possibilities, surely you can all come up with something?

 

When you do, I might join!!! (Under a different name!) I love the outdoors and the thrill of the chase. But not yet, it’s too complicated, causes too much hostility, seems to drive nice people to quarrel or argue, and is just a touch geeky.

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Reminds me of

 

quote:
"I dont like Guiness, but I've never tried it"

 

With all due respect Tripplechatter, thanks for your input but, until you have tried it you cannot understand.

 

Go on, go out and find a few, and then we can say "Abandon hope all ye who enter for once the bug bites ..." icon_biggrin.gif

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by tripechatter:

Geocaching as it stands will ALWAYS be in trouble, because of one very simple and rectifiable problem: the caches themselves.


I can't help feeling that you are wrong on this one - I have had 5 caches in my front room for weeks now and they havn't had one argument or disturbed anyone. I think you'll find it is people who cause problems, the caches - they just hide away where no-one can find them minding their own business....A bit like carkeys really.

icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

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quote:
I have had 5 caches in my front room for weeks now and they havn't had one argument or disturbed anyone

 

I find that the micro caches have to be kept away from all other boxes because they feel dwarfed and get picked on. It can be a big problem in small room!

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Most are valid and good points that are raised in the post.

But it’s too late for change the format has been set.

Only thing to do would be to set up a web site to rival GC.com with the different way of caching. I can’t see this happening though.

For good or bad we are suck with this format. We will have to try to make it work.

The first 5 caches we did there was excitement at the find and anticipation as to the contents,

After that the log book is the first thing Katherine Sarah and I go for, Laura now only shows passing interest in the contents. To be honest and with all due respect most of it is, well rubbish. But how much enthusiasm there would have been if there was a brass plate only, in the first five finds I don’t know.

To finish I would like you to consider this:- Place a cache the way you see it and see what comments you get in the log.

If is positive it will be copied and just may be, people will change, to the new method.

Keith (The Spokes

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For me Its the idea that there is something hidden somewhere that people may go everyday but only 'we' know about it. My first cache 'view from coombe hill' had been hidden for a long time before I stumbled over it on the internet. Thats meant that I had walked straight passed it on many occasions. Thinking about this was so strange! I'm sure your ideas could all be used, but each to thier own. Some of us like finding McDonalds toys in plastic lunchboxes icon_smile.gif I love this hobby and I never want it to change icon_wink.gif

 

Its just a hunt for a lunch box, why be so serious!?! badgerslayer.gif

 

Dan Wilson - www.Buckscaching.co.uk

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quote:
No need for irksome rules!

(Why would you need them, when everything you are doing is seen as praiseworthy and risk-free?)


 

Sorry, strongly disagree here. Rules are a general requirement for any activity, and you as much qualify that statement yourself with your suggestions.

 

quote:

No bad publicity or accusations of littering!

(Bear in mind, though you may regard the ModAnts as unjust and unpleasant, they only reacted because they became aware of you. How many more episodes like that are you going to face from other groups and interests who suddenly discover you? They too may be wrong and unjust, but do you want to go through it all again and again?)


 

Was the ModAnt fiasco entirely unjust? Possibly not - we learnt a lot about ourselves, and about other groups, and how sometimes even the best attempts at mutual understanding can falter.

 

Accusations of littering are largely unfounded. I think the CITO Day on April 26th shows that for itself.

 

quote:

No fear of being regarded as anoraks or concern that you’ll be laughed at on television!How many innocent passtimes have that sort of worry hanging over them? Only yours!


 

I'm sorry... What? How many activities worry about public attitude towards them? Well, Scouting, for one. Sad, but true... I know a lot of Kids who love scouting, but shy away from their friends about it. And I know from when I was a kid, there were plenty of others who would've "fit right in" to scouting, but felt they would be laughed at by their peers.

 

A lot of innocent passtimes have a stigma attached to them - Stamp Collecting, Coin Collecting, Computing, Astronomy, Mountain Biking, you name it, and someone will think it is weird.

 

This is a new activity, and people are naturally think it's a little odd, and therefore its only natural that people would worry about what reaction they would get.

 

quote:

As to how you should change the nature of your caches, that’s up to you, and a matter for debate. You could go down the “virtual” route, but I can quite see that something might be lost there. Or you could change them physically. The options are endless…a simple brass disk that people replace with their own? How would that work? (I don’t know, it’s up to you!) A biodegradable wickerwork box that disappears in a few months? (why should you bother with monitoring and revisiting caches? Where’s the fun in that?) containing a password so people can prove they’ve found it, and another for the kids that can be used to buy sweets in the local shop (if they show their geocaching ID), where you’ve deposited a fiver? Yes, I know, I know, the money would run out, but so what, it’s a hard world, kids have to learn that! And think how keen they’d be to get to a new cache before anyone else! Maybe that wouldn’t work but there must be thousands of possibilities, surely you can all come up with something?


 

Are you suggesting we should have rules? icon_wink.gif

 

quote:

When you do, I might join!!! (Under a different name!) I love the outdoors and the thrill of the chase. But not yet, it’s too complicated, causes too much hostility, seems to drive nice people to quarrel or argue, and is just a touch geeky.


 

Complicated? Not really. You follow the arrow to where you're going, and when you get there, you open a box.

 

Hostility? With other groups... well, that's changed a lot recently. We're striving to make sure we stay on the right side of others.

 

Arguments? dadgum right, and we should! We should argue, and debate, and express our opinions about Geocaching in any way that suits us. By expressing our opinions, the activity will evolve.

 

A touch geeky? Possibly, but what does that matter? Everyone knows I'm a geek, and I accept that. Everyone you see on this forum doesn't care about being considered a "geek" - whatever "geeky" is, anyway.

 

You want the game to change before you join? Not gonna happen. Come out and see if it suits you as it is... it sure as the sun rising suits one shed load of us "geeks".

 

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

soapbox.gif

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Groundhog day is February 2nd, and it’s supposed to give a pointer to the future.

 

On that day, someone wrote:

“If you are ever thinking of placing a cache on Dartmoor, don't use an ammo box. These used to be the containers of choice for letterboxers, but now the Dartmoor rangers actively seek them out and remove them, possibly because of the use of the moor by the army and the potential for a box with live ammo to be left behind after firing exercises. I suppose the same applies to the Dorset coast and Salisbury Plain and any where else the army have free rein.”

 

…and a couple of days earlier Tim and June had written:

“New cachers are welcomed and we expect mistakes from them.”

 

I simply thought that, looked at in juxtaposition, those two posts illustrated that relying solely upon rules of procedure, however comprehensive, was going to give you lots of grief, sooner or later and on a continuing basis, so long as what you leave might be regarded by others, rightly or wrongly, as unwelcome, even occasionally. But none of you seems to get it, and your moderators tell me that as an outsider I can’t possibly know what I’m talking about, so I’ll be off, and wish you all luck.

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quote:
Originally posted by lathama:

quote:
I have had 5 caches in my front room for weeks now and they havn't had one argument or disturbed anyone

 

I find that the micro caches have to be kept away from all other boxes because they feel dwarfed and get picked on. It can be a big problem in small room!


Ahh, The secret there is to give each Micro a Tim and June Bear to protect it - then you don't get any trouble at all.

 

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

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*sigh*

 

I wonder how many other sports are plagued by regular lectures from people who've never ever played, understood, or enjoyed said sport, trying to tell them how they "should" be doing things icon_frown.gif

 

P.S. for those who missed the reference, "groundhog day" seems to be referring to the Bill Murray film - the one where he's forced to relive the same day of his life over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over...

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Originally posted by The Good Shepherds:

*sigh*

 

I wonder how many other sports are plagued by regular lectures from people who've never ever played, understood, or enjoyed said sport, trying to tell them how they "should" be doing things icon_frown.gif

 

That’s a fine if you only want to place caches on your own land. BUT we want to place caches on other people’s land, we have to take into account the way outsiders perceive us, and listen to what they have to say. Or we may well find that the outsiders will make the rules for us without ever having understood it.

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Hi, I live in Vancouver, Washington U.S.A. and I often scroll down to the UK section to see whats going on over there, I enjoy reading your posts and would like to someday, cache in your area.You all seem to be a fun bunch. I find it refreshing to see how you handle potentially nasty topics as this one would be over here. The poor guy would have been run out on a flaming rail. Instead, you all handled it with tact and merit. The US forums could take a lesson from all of you. Good caching icon_cool.gif

Bob G. (1pilot)

Vancouver Wa U.S.A.

 

**********************************************************

Where are we going?......And WHY am I in this handbasket???

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I believe that Triplechatter has made a couple of worthy points, though I don't generally agree with him. While it is possible to send people away with a flea in their ear, I think it is more helpful to at least recognise that there are going to be people who might want to try our sport and will lurk on here for a while before taking a decision. How we are seen by the outside world is not an insignificant part of what Tim and June have been working on recently. But this forum is also part of that public face too, and we shoould expect people to offer opinions from outside as well. Sometimes they will be good, sometimes not so good. But I would rather hear it and knoww hat we are up against.

 

In reply to one of triplechatter's questions about what is the hook, the reason, the motivation for actually finding a real hidden box, I would also add, in addition to what others have already put, that there is the hiding bit of the fun as well as the finding bit. It can be fun to find a good hiding place and then test it out by hiding something there and seeing how good your idea was. To change the sport in a way which precludes the actual hiding of an object (whatever that actually is) would take half the fun away for me.

 

And that is from someone who has only hidden two caches!

 

No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced....

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