+Tim & June Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Acute embarrassment. I posted a reply which was duplicated. I deleted the duplicate, but somehow the entire thread also went (perhaps it was too large). I have been able to recover the last 51 posts. Apologies to all, we will contact Groundspeak to attempt to recover the content fully. I have posted below that which we were able to reconstruct, and would welcome those whose posts were lost to post their points again. Sincere apologies to all concerned, this was not done intentionally. Kouros posted 10 May, 2003 10:30 AM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Teasel: As I said earlier, personally I'm in favour of having an association. However, the following seems to go further than I'm personally comfortable with... quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Kouros: at least this way we would get to _choose_ who represents us. At present, the people who negotiate our position with authorities may or may not be suitable for the role. <snip to ModAnt scenario...> without the risk of anyone saying anything untoward that could jeopardise our position? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does this mean that TheCat would not be _allowed_ to negotiate with the Shetlands authorities for permission to place caches on their land? Does it mean that I am no longer _allowed_ to speak to Peak Park rangers to seek their blessing for a night-only cache at Trentabank? Does it mean that Robin Love1ock is no longer _allowed_ to give interviews to the press? Or that only the elected committee are allowed to debate with the TMA? Even if enforcable, are such restrictions really going to benefit the "sport"? I think the FC/NT/etc would probably be happier negotiating with an association than individuals, and for that reason alone the GAGB is a good idea. However it's a big step from providing a central point of contact for organisations to talk to, to banning anyone else from talking to them! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry Teasel, that's not what I meant. And for what it's worth, I must admit I don't know anything about the Association yet. I was only hypothosising. (Spell check, please!) I think I kinda got lost in my own point there, and for that I apologise. I just meant that in future the GAGB might be a body with a respected standing who should represent the game, rather than any individual cacher they wouldn't know from Adam. If it turns out that it's still Mark negotiating with the Shetlands, thats grand. But instead of "Mark, one of those Geocachers" he'd be "Mark, a representative from GAGB." Of course it'd be entirely unenforceable to say that no one could voice an opinion (and wrong, too). I think I just worded that part of my argument real bad. My point was probably closer to what Paul said about a cacher feeling out of his depth, and getting put on the spot, answering a question he/she didn't really know the answer to. In that scenario, GAGB would probably be a better representative. It came out very, very differently, though. My bad. Anyway, like I say, it was only a theory, and that's as far as it goes. Apart from being a memeber, I'm nothing to do with the association (yet - who knows what the future may bring) and couldn't speak on its behalf. Sorry for any misunderstanding. ------ An it harm none, do what ye will [This message was edited by Kouros on May 10, 2003 at 02:48 AM.] Posts: 143 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: April 07, 2002 jeb and co posted 10 May, 2003 11:11 AM I still haven't had an email asking me to join the association so how will I, a cacher who never reads the forums know anything about it. If cache approvers are officers of the association is there not a likelyhood of bias towards approving caches of members over those of none members? Posts: 9 | From: uk | Registered: August 12, 2002 Dr Crippen posted 10 May, 2003 11:25 AM This discussion appears to be getting personal now! Where's Jerry Springer when you need him?????????? Where's the boat go from..?? Posts: 6 | Registered: April 30, 2003 Teasel posted 10 May, 2003 11:32 AM There is a tickbox in everyone's preferences saying "check this box if you want to be the first to know when new things happen on the web site". In the past few days, two complementary sites have been officially recognised by Groundspeak, one of which is brand new, yet will have a significant effect on geocaching in the UK. I think this fully falls into the category of "new things happening"(!). Perhaps Groundspeak could be approached to word some sort of email to those who have ticked that checkbox? Might I suggest that the proposed wording is run past the people debating both sides of the argument on this forum before being sent to all 1000-odd cachers? Speaking with a "single voice" is going to require debate and compromise, not just getting in quicker and speaking louder than the other voices! Posts: 48 | From: Buxton, UK | Registered: March 01, 2002 Richard & Beth posted 10 May, 2003 01:04 PM Ok, a couple of updates: Moss Trooper has posted an announcement about GAGB to N*vic*che, which in principle got a good reception, but the website's initial choice of complimentary links got a bit of a bumpy reception. Moving on to the Lovelock question, it is slightly academic as from what I can gather he is not actively caching at the moment. (Last cache hidden Jan 2002, last cache find July 2002) It has been stated membership of GAGB is open to all UK geocachers, so it is open to anyone whether they cache through this site, another site, or don't log at all. However in order for any association to function each member will be expected to abide by the democratically expressed wishes of other members of the association. Regards, Richard Posts: 88 | From: Arborfield, Berkshire | Registered: May 28, 2001 Team Blitz posted 10 May, 2003 02:40 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Slytherin: BTW Paul, have you not wondered why it is that Team Blitz is the only major caching outfit within 40 miles of Winchester that DIDN'T get invited to be "founder" mambers? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As they say, tell a lie often enough and it becomes the truth. There are MANY other cachers within 40 miles of Winchester who weren't involved... in fact I bumped into one such team yesterday afternoon, and another joined me with helping a geo-evening for our scouts last night. Paul My wife uses a cache box to take her sandwiches to work... how odd! Posts: 127 | From: Winchester, Hants | Registered: April 18, 2002 Team Blitz posted 10 May, 2003 03:09 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by jeb and co: I still haven't had an email asking me to join the association so how will I, a cacher who never reads the forums know anything about it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't worry, I never had an email either. And I never had an email to tell me about GeoCaching And I never had an email to tell me about gc.com And I never had an email to tell me about GC:UK Imagine GC.COM came up with a new GUIDELINE: "you ought not use ammo boxes any more as caches"... how would you expect to find out about THAT? WOuld you expect to get an email? I've never had an email yet from GC to inform me of any of their OTHER changes, so I wouldn't expect one for that, nor for the formation of GAGB. I've been looking for an organisation that appears to work in the way we believe GAGB will work. Scouts, Churches etc are actually BAD examples, as they are self-contained organisations, rather than ones that generally represent others. However, I did find the PATIENTS ASSOCIATION (http://www.patients-association.com): ================== "Helen Hodgson formed the Patients Association in 1963. The consumer voice in healthcare in the UK began with her. At the time she founded the Patients Association there was no consumer voice in healthcare or the NHS. Patients were expected to be grateful for what they got, putting up with hours of waiting on hard narrow benches and patronised and dismissed by an arrogant medical profession. Helen then did most of the campaigning from her living room in Regents Park, surrounded by letters and papers" "Unfortunately we do not have local representative groups. The only office we have is based in Harrow and any other patient association or group currently have no formal connection with The Patients Association" "The Helpline can help by providing information on a wide range of issues, ranging from finding local support groups for certain medical conditions, NHS services and support groups to providing information on what patients are entitled to, making a complaint and listening to patients' experiences." "The Patients Association exists for you and relies on your support to continue its vital work. Joining the Patients Association can make all the difference. Your support will help the Patients Association to: Run its campaigns to support patients' rights and to improve healthcare services Lobby Government to address healthcare issues affecting patients Continue in its work speaking up for patients and carers in all quarters Provide information and support to help patients speak up for themselves By becoming a member of the Patients Association you will ensure that your voice is heard as loudly as you want it to be." ================== This organisation seems to be quite similar (in its field) to what GAGB is trying to achieve.... And I knew nothing about it until about 10 minutes ago!!! I had to go look for it. GAGB is about 2 days old.... the fact that they have a website is a good start, although I don't imagine it has made the search engines QUITE yet. It WILL take time for the word to get out... I'm sure there will eventually be something about it on GC.COM's news pages (erm, you DO check out that sort of stuff occasionally I guess, in case anything important happens re caching??) Paul Posts: 127 | From: Winchester, Hants | Registered: April 18, 2002 Team Blitz posted 10 May, 2003 03:25 PM <see below> [This message was edited by Team Blitz on May 10, 2003 at 09:31 AM.] Posts: 127 | From: Winchester, Hants | Registered: April 18, 2002 The Hornet posted 10 May, 2003 04:53 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Team Blitz: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by The Hornet: What a lot of hot air being expended (mine included!) As we're well down the second page now I thought I'd do a quick tally. Results (very unscientific but what the heck!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It would be interesting to add into those results the number of people who have actually registered with GAGB, as that would give a truer figure for the number of cachers who are PRO the organisation. (Experience generally shows that "supporters" tend to be quieter in their support, than are "opposers" in their opposition!) Paul My wife uses a cache box to take her sandwiches to work... how odd! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Which is why in my original post the previous couple of lines to your selective quote said: "Now 94% of cachers silent is plainly a nonsense because as I read previously 73 people had already signed up to GAGB, I guess there are more now. So I suggest we stop making sweeping generalisations here because they are plainly meaningless." I was trying to give an objective summary of the position as it stood then rather than trying to make any justification for my own point of view. Thanks. _________________________________________________________ It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do. Posts: 187 | From: Watford, Hertfordshire, UK | Registered: February 04, 2001 Team Blitz posted 10 May, 2003 04:56 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Slytherin: BTW Paul, have you not wondered why it is that Team Blitz is the only major caching outfit within 40 miles of Winchester that DIDN'T get invited to be "founder" mambers? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As they say, tell a lie often enough and it becomes the truth. There are MANY other cachers within 40 miles of Winchester who weren't involved... in fact I bumped into one such team yesterday afternoon, and another joined me with helping a geo-evening for our scouts last night. Besides, whilst I feel flattered to be described as a "major caching outfit", I hardly believe that description fits: People like Jeremy, El10t, T&J have been caching far longer than I/we have, and each have far more logged caches. Paul My wife uses a cache box to take her sandwiches to work... how odd [This message was edited by Team Blitz on May 10, 2003 at 09:32 AM.] Posts: 127 | From: Winchester, Hants | Registered: April 18, 2002 Team Blitz posted 10 May, 2003 05:11 PM In case any of you haven't been to the GCAB site in the last 24 hrs, the "AIMS" page has had an update: ========================================== Updated 05-09-03 16:45 after much debate. To establish elected officers and representatives. The key purpose of the GAGB is to enhance geocaching and to progress it as an activity within Great Britain and Northern Ireland by: - liasing with local and national land-owning bodies, agreeing mutually beneficial guidelines so that caching on their land is approved and encouraged. - helping all associates to enjoy the activity without falling foul of the civil and criminal laws of the land. - establishing good caching practices by accepting advice from land, environmental, archaeological and historical bodies. - acting as intermediaries and be the first point of call for all interested parties in Great Britain. - ensuring that the positive educational, environmental and recreational aspects of geocaching are properly represented. - helping new members of the geocaching community when they begin. To achieve these aims, the Association's elected officers will (when elected) initially be: - negotiating with major owners of publicly accessible land in Great Britain for a positive approach to geocaching. - seeking positive and appropriate publicity opportunities for the promotion of geocaching. - maintaining a page of links to websites containing information on environmental, legal and other topics of interest to cachers. - developing a definitive set of geocaching guidelines specific to Great Britain. - developing a reference system to summarise laws and other issues which impact geocaching in Great Britain. ========================================== Interesting things to note: - no tasks lined up for the existing (ie UNelected) committee - not RULES, but GUIDELINES, just like on GC.COM - no mention of "exclusivity" Paul Posts: 127 | From: Winchester, Hants | Registered: April 18, 2002 Team Blitz posted 10 May, 2003 05:15 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...the sun is shining, it's Saturday, lets go and hunt plastic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I wish it was that simple: It might have been sunny at 8am, but it's been miserable here since mid-morning, and my back is not being nice to me...... To be honest, bed has more appeal than caching today! Paul Posts: 127 | From: Winchester, Hants | Registered: April 18, 2002 Icenians posted 10 May, 2003 05:48 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Teasel: There is a tickbox in everyone's preferences saying "check this box if you want to be the first to know when new things happen on the web site". In the past few days, two complementary sites have been officially recognised by Groundspeak, one of which is brand new, yet will have a significant effect on geocaching in the UK. I think this fully falls into the category of "new things happening"(!). Perhaps Groundspeak could be approached to word some sort of email to those who have ticked that checkbox? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- An association representing UK Geocahers is a lot more than something new on the website. This is a part of the problem. There is a whole world of geocaching out there that doesn't use this site. Any association must think beyond GC.com. If not you cannot be the voice of UK geocaching only the voice of GC.com in the UK. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Posts: 103 | From: Norfolk, England | Registered: April 18, 2002 piggly posted 10 May, 2003 06:30 PM Well I'm new to this game but this GAGB club sounds very sensible to me. I appreciate being told what I should and shouldn't do. It makes life so much easier knowing your limits. I would like to suggest that when elections have been held some sort of geocaching licence be developed. Perhaps we should take a "test" with an experienced geocacher before being let loose in the field. This could take the form of a written test on the rules as laid down by the committee followed by a practical GPS session maybe. It might be unpopular but it would weed out the rogues before they could do any mischief. After all GPS units are only like radios in reverse and you need a licence before being allowed to use an amateur radio. As happy as a piggy in ordure. Posts: 9 | Registered: April 30, 2003 TheCat posted 10 May, 2003 06:31 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Team Blitz: _Imagine_ GC.COM came up with a new GUIDELINE: "you ought not use ammo boxes any more as caches"... how would you expect to find out about THAT? WOuld you expect to get an email?Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well that point is not relevent. GC:UK has never claimed to represent anyone. We also would never set any rules or guidelines for the sport in the UK it is not in our remit, nor do we have that right. No one elected us to be there spokseman. We are a site that provides services just that nothing else. Geocaching.com started this game in the guise of Jeremy I. Geocaching.com have guidelines and have every right so to do. Mark (TheCat) www.geocacheuk.com Officially recognized by Groundspeak and Geocaching.com Posts: 60 | From: Bradford United Kingdom | Registered: June 24, 2002 Ben Pid posted 10 May, 2003 07:09 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It might have been sunny at 8am, but it's been miserable here since mid-morning, and my back is not being nice to me...... To be honest, bed has more appeal than caching today! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And you call yourself a noble cacher? sorry mate but thats low...extremly low. I had respect for you but you just lost it. Bed or caching...I know which I would choose...and I know which the majority of people would choose! Lets stop the over excessive posting on a geocaching forum from the people who can't be bothered to cache coz of a little pain in the back -------------------------------------------------------- I'm Bad, I'm Bad you know it you know! www.buckscaching.co.uk Posts: 280 | From: Aylesbury, Bucks, UK | Registered: February 18, 2002 Icenians posted 10 May, 2003 07:13 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Team Blitz: I've been looking for an organisation that appears to work in the way we believe GAGB will work. Scouts, Churches etc are actually BAD examples, as they are self-contained organisations, rather than ones that generally represent others. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on a minute. Scouts represents Scouts. GAGB will represent cachers. If Scouts is a bad example so is GAGB surely? quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- However, I did find the PATIENTS ASSOCIATION (http://www.patients-association.com): <snip history stuff> Your support will help the Patients Association to: Run its campaigns to support patients' rights and to improve healthcare services Lobby Government to address healthcare issues affecting patients Continue in its work speaking up for patients and carers in all quarters Provide information and support to help patients speak up for themselves By becoming a member of the Patients Association you will ensure that your voice is heard as loudly as you want it to be." ================== -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All for £20! This association doesn't claim to be the 'Single' voice of all patients. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It WILL take time for the word to get out... I'm sure there will eventually be something about it on GC.COM's news pages (erm, you DO check out that sort of stuff occasionally I guess, in case anything important happens re caching??) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Personal digs again. I can be a patient with or without the patients association. Yes they probably have made a big difference over the years. GAGB is already too closly tied to the main caching website, approved by it no less. It is not 2 days old it has been on the cards for 2 months. More than enough time to organise an email campaign through all 3 sites. More than enough time to add a link to the other 2 sites on their web page. Why has this not happened? Probably because it is approved by the GC.com and they wouldn't like it. I am realistic enough to know that I cannot stop this but I can raise points to try and get others thinking. Here is a point I would like the GAGB to consider very carefully. Any elected officers of the association should not hold a position that involves approval of caches on any geocaching website. That is a conflict of interest and could be used to effectivly stop anyone caching that doesn't follow the local rules but does follow GC.coms rules. Please note. I am not stating that that will happen just raising it as a concern that should be considered and, in my opinion, enshrined in any constitution of the GAGB. The founders undoubtedly have good intentions but others that follow may not. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Posts: 103 | From: Norfolk, England | Registered: April 18, 2002 The Hornet posted 10 May, 2003 07:32 PM Just checked GAGB to try and stay current. I see they now have a link to GC:UK on their links page. Good move. _________________________________________________________ Enthusiastic user of GeocacheUK - Information, not control. It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do. _________________________________________________________ [This message was edited by The Hornet on May 10, 2003 at 11:45 AM.] Posts: 187 | From: Watford, Hertfordshire, UK | Registered: February 04, 2001 Team Blitz posted 10 May, 2003 08:38 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Icenians: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Team Blitz: ...Scouts, Churches etc are actually BAD examples, as they are self-contained organisations, rather than ones that generally represent others. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hang on a minute. Scouts represents Scouts. GAGB will represent cachers. If Scouts is a bad example so is GAGB surely? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, I appreciate that scouts represent scouts, but what I was getting at there was that the "hobby" is actually contained "within" the organisation.... so not only do they *represent* scouts, they are also the "providers of the service". Same for churches. I don't see GAGB as actually "providing the service"... the service is "externally provided" (by us!) .... thus the choice of the Patients Association: it represents users of an externally provided service too. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- More than enough time to add a link to the other 2 sites on their web page. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I will admit that I too WAS a bit surprised about that.... I would have done it, if only to stop such accusations being made. As far as GC:UK is concerned, I sense there is a certain amount of friction between GC:UK and the GC.COM Uk "team" (or maybe between the GC.COM team and GC:UK).... I don't know why, and I don't think here (ie this thread) is the place to discuss it. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is a point I would like the GAGB to consider very carefully. Any elected officers of the association should not hold a position that involves approval of caches on any geocaching website. That is a conflict of interest and could be used to effectivly stop anyone caching that doesn't follow the local rules but does follow GC.coms rules. At last, some good constructive ideas coming out (not saying whether I agree or disagree with that comment yet)... I hope the "setup team" are taking note??? ... and should be considered in my opinion, enshrined in any constitution of the GAGB. The founders undoubtedly have good intentions but others that follow may not. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Whether it should be explicitly permitted or explicitly forbidden is certainly the sort of thing that needs to be in a constitution... yes, I have seen several organisations "stray from the path" after some time for this sort of reason. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What about those born on Feb 29th? :-) Paul [This message was edited by Team Blitz on May 10, 2003 at 12:49 PM.] Posts: 127 | From: Winchester, Hants | Registered: April 18, 2002 Team Blitz posted 10 May, 2003 08:43 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by TheCat: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Team Blitz: _Imagine_ GC.COM came up with a new GUIDELINE: .... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well that point is not relevent. GC:UK has never claimed to represent anyone...... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think you misread me there.... I did say **GC.COM**, honest! My wife uses a cache box to take her sandwiches to work... how odd! Posts: 127 | From: Winchester, Hants | Registered: April 18, 2002 Team Blitz posted 10 May, 2003 08:47 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Ben Pid: ..... Lets stop the over excessive posting on a geocaching forum from the people who can't be bothered to cache coz of a little pain in the back -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- At least you didn't describe me as a pain in the neck, or a PITA :-) :-) I'll try & make up for my sins tomorrow: I'll start with church (I HAVE to do that... I do the PA there!!!) and then I'll go caching! Posts: 127 | From: Winchester, Hants | Registered: April 18, 2002 The Hornet posted 10 May, 2003 08:52 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Team Blitz: As far as GC:UK is concerned, I sense there is a certain amount of friction between GC:UK and the GC.COM Uk "team" (or maybe between the GC.COM team and GC:UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Surely not with GC.COM, after all they were happy to make GC:UK the first "approved" UK site. As for the GC.COM Uk "Team", well you'll have to ask them. _________________________________________________________ Enthusiastic user of GeocacheUK - resources for the UK Geocaching community. _________________________________________________________ It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do. _________________________________________________________ Posts: 187 | From: Watford, Hertfordshire, UK | Registered: February 04, 2001 Icenians posted 10 May, 2003 08:54 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Team Blitz: As far as GC:UK is concerned, I sense there is a certain amount of friction between GC:UK and the GC.COM Uk "team" (or maybe between the GC.COM team and GC:UK).... I don't know why, and I don't think here (ie this thread) is the place to discuss it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I wasn't refering to GC:UK as they do not provide a geocaching database but two other sites, at least, do. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- At last, some good constructive ideas coming out (not saying whether I agree or disagree with that comment yet)... I hope the "setup team" are taking note??? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Which wouldn't have come out without a debate. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. What about those born on Feb 29th? :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, you know what they say about statistics Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Posts: 103 | From: Norfolk, England | Registered: April 18, 2002 Omally posted 10 May, 2003 09:56 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Icenians: Well, you know what they say about statistics Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- yeah: 88.7% of all statistics are made up during tea-breaks... Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis. Posts: 120 | From: Southampton, UK | Registered: August 26, 2002 TheCat posted 10 May, 2003 10:22 PM First an apology to Paul Blitz yeh I did miss read you. I am sorry. But as for friction between GC:UK and GC.COM you are wrong there I speak to one of the GC.COM team almost every week by phone. Mark (TheCat) www.geocacheuk.com Officially recognized by Groundspeak and Geocaching.com Posts: 60 | From: Bradford United Kingdom | Registered: June 24, 2002 Fiddo posted 10 May, 2003 10:46 PM My wife has just waded through 3 pages of text, as I have & her thoughts are. Aren't many of the Geocaching fratunity missing the point "The Landowners have the rights ,Cachers are seeking permission/concessions what ever is the in word." Also what ever happened to NO caches on FC land, the ones in the NF are still there,even a new one added to the list???? Posts: 8 | Registered: January 16, 2003 Omally posted 10 May, 2003 11:00 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Fiddo: My wife has just waded through 3 pages of text, as I have & her thoughts are. Aren't many of the Geocaching fratunity missing the point "The Landowners have the rights ,Cachers are seeking permission/concessions what ever is the in word." Also what ever happened to NO caches on FC land, the ones in the NF are still there,even a new one added to the list???? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not too sure exactly what you mean: this discussion appers to have become "whether GAGB is a valid organisation and whether it will be of any use to Geocachers in GB". The intention of GAGB (inasmuch as stated on the GAGB site) is to represent cachers in Great Britain to local authorities (such as the NT, HCC, FC et al) with a view to giving us an official representation and thereby helping us look just that bit more professional and therefore acceptable to these authorities. It is believed by some that the general guidelines in GC.com may not be explicit enough for local authorities in the UK because they are kind of intended for worldwide use (in 172 countries, no less). I can't speak for the NF caches as I'm not 100% certain of the situation with the FC myself. I'm sure someone will be along in a mo to explain that one or throw us a link to a relevant thread. Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis. Posts: 120 | From: Southampton, UK | Registered: August 26, 2002 Icenians posted 10 May, 2003 11:03 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Fiddo: My wife has just waded through 3 pages of text, as I have & her thoughts are. Aren't many of the Geocaching fratunity missing the point "The Landowners have the rights ,Cachers are seeking permission/concessions what ever is the in word." Also what ever happened to NO caches on FC land, the ones in the NF are still there,even a new one added to the list???? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Totally agree. I don't disagree with the current guidelines or rules. I just don't see why we need a national association to negotiate for us. There a thousands of interesting places in the UK that are not owned by national bodies. In many of these cases a local, and I mean from the same area not just county, cacher will have much more success than a national body. There is a good chance they would either know the owner or someone that does. Having a seperate association will not stop people placing caches without consent. Why would someone from Cornwall be able to do a better job of getting agreement to place a cache in my village when I could take the owner out for pint in the local and discuss it with them? We don't need anymore caches stuck out in the middle of a dense FC wood miles from anything more interesting than a picnic site. I've done several FC caches and I can't recall a single one that was anything more than rows of conifers. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Posts: 103 | From: Norfolk, England | Registered: April 18, 2002 Fiddo posted 10 May, 2003 11:06 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not too sure exactly what you mean: this discussion appers to have become "whether GAGB is a valid organisation and whether it will be of any use to Geocachers in GB". The intention of GAGB (inasmuch as stated on the GAGB site) is to represent cachers in Great Britain to local authorities (such as the NT, HCC, FC et al) with a view to giving us an official representation and thereby helping us look just that bit more professional and therefore acceptable to these authorities. It is believed by some that the general guidelines in GC.com may not be explicit enough for local authorities in the UK because they are kind of intended for worldwide use (in 172 countries, no less). Yep I agree there should be local representaion, "One size does not fit all" Posts: 8 | Registered: January 16, 2003 Icenians posted 10 May, 2003 11:09 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Fiddo: Not too sure exactly what you mean: this discussion appers to have become "whether GAGB is a valid organisation and whether it will be of any use to Geocachers in GB". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That sums it up for me. I would also refer you to the other thread as to the representation so far. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Posts: 103 | From: Norfolk, England | Registered: April 18, 2002 Omally posted 10 May, 2003 11:09 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Omally: I can't speak for the NF caches as I'm not 100% certain of the situation with the FC myself. I'm sure someone will be along in a mo to explain that one or throw us a link to a relevant thread. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's one. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Icenians: I've done several FC caches and I can't recall a single one that was nothing more than rows of conifers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What's wrong with that? I like conifers! I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis. Posts: 120 | From: Southampton, UK | Registered: August 26, 2002 Icenians posted 10 May, 2003 11:13 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Which flavour? Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Posts: 103 | From: Norfolk, England | Registered: April 18, 2002 Omally posted 10 May, 2003 11:19 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Icenians: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Which flavour? Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fraga. Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis. Posts: 120 | From: Southampton, UK | Registered: August 26, 2002 Icenians posted 10 May, 2003 11:25 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Omally: Fraga. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Too many seeds. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Posts: 103 | From: Norfolk, England | Registered: April 18, 2002 Team Hydro posted 10 May, 2003 11:26 PM wow what a can of worms. we are happy to pay to join geocache.com as we have got so much fun out of geocaching in such a short space of time, and are very glad that gagb is being set up to be a voice over here. this whole sport has brought out a never seen before competative streak in the only female member of this team. perhaps thats what has made people complain about this, as they didn't have the ability / where with all to set a uk org up... Posts: 2 | From: Hampshire | Registered: March 07, 2003 Omally posted 10 May, 2003 11:31 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Icenians: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Omally: Fraga. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Too many seeds. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think Strawberry ice-cream is a little off-topic I'll just have to change my sig 'cos it's too distracting for everyone! Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis. Posts: 120 | From: Southampton, UK | Registered: August 26, 2002 Icenians posted 10 May, 2003 11:35 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Team Hydro: perhaps thats what has made people complain about this, as they didn't have the ability / where with all to set a uk org up... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guess you didn't read it all then. I do have the ability and where with all to set up a UK org. As I said earlier I am helping set up an association for the young people of my village. We start off by asking them if they want one. We also don't start off by presuming what they want from it. First you have to identify the need and that shouldn't be done behind closed doors by a small section of people tied to one site. I would have absoloutly no problem with the GAGB if they were set up to represent the GC.com geocachers of the UK or declared themselves as representing there members and not all geocachers. I could have no defence against that as what they do for their members would be their choice. But they are not doing that. They are saying they are the single voice. I am shouting loudly to show they are not. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Posts: 103 | From: Norfolk, England | Registered: April 18, 2002 Team Hydro posted 10 May, 2003 11:50 PM i can see a need, somebody has to negociate with HCC etc. This may seem to have been "done behind closed doors" but I am hoping that once up and running" it will be open to elections. As a very over worked mum of two, and teacher I am glad that someboy else is doing the negociating for me!! Posts: 2 | From: Hampshire | Registered: March 07, 2003 Team Paradise posted 11 May, 2003 12:19 AM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Icenians: I would have absoloutly no problem with the GAGB if they were set up to represent the GC.com geocachers of the UK or declared themselves as representing there members and not all geocachers. I could have no defence against that as what they do for their members would be their choice. But they are not doing that. They are saying they are the single voice. I am shouting loudly to show they are not. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Having followed this thread for the last few days and wondering why people are getting so upset, the above quote is the first concise and sensibly put arguement I've seen so far ! Maybe I'm naive or over simplifying things, but I'd have thought that an association that has members, by definition can only support/speak for it's members, otherwise what would be the point in having members ? If you like the idea and want to be a member, that's great. If you don't like it and don't want to become a member, that's also great, in which case the associations aims and aspirations aren't representing you. Presuming my simplistic assumption is correct, I can't see a problem with either stance... Posts: 31 | From: Basingstoke, UK | Registered: February 23, 2003 Icenians posted 11 May, 2003 12:23 AM Why are the founding members of this association not defending their actions? They are posting on the Navi*ache site as I type this. Well I can't wait around all night. I'm going to shut up and go to bed now. If the wife will let me in that is. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Posts: 103 | From: Norfolk, England | Registered: April 18, 2002 Dan Wilson posted 11 May, 2003 02:00 AM Hello all. I have just been reading the navi-cache forums and can see that there is some support/interest for this venture there, aswell as some concern. I am also sure that the same applies at Geocache Worldwide. We have all chosen which geocaching site to use, this isn't an issue for me. What I'm trying to say is that if the new Assosiation is to speak for all it must include members from other sites. I am sure that they too have their Tim & Junes etc who Like to Muck in wherever possible and their being a part of this would only make for the better. Now I know there are an abundance of Forums etc on the net for us all but they are aimed at US, geocaching.com users. Can I suggest that a new forum become available on the new GAGB site where users from all websites can visit and voice opinions without having to come here or us there. We should make it known at this early stage that GAGB does not belong to one site and that all are welcome, let both pages know and invite everyone to debate together. Aswell as allowing for fair discussion it would also prove in my opinion to be a good way of showing these other sites that we are not in competition & apreciate other points of views. I would welcome anyone, afterall, in the end of the day we all just hunt lunchboxes. What do you lot think? Dan. Its just a hunt for a lunch box, why be so serious!?! Dan Wilson - www.Buckscaching.co.uk Posts: 173 | From: Aylesbury, England | Registered: February 17, 2002 washboy posted 11 May, 2003 03:06 AM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Dan Wilson: Can I suggest that a new forum become available on the new GAGB site where users from all websites can visit and voice opinions without having to come here or us there. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Isn't that precisely what the G:UK forums have been providing for some time now? (and I say that with my G:UK moderators hat off) ===== There's no such thing as a free lunchbox! Posts: 20 | From: London, England | Registered: June 04, 2002 Dan Wilson posted 11 May, 2003 03:36 AM I always associated GeocacheUk with Geocaching.com? Do Users from other caching communities use the GeocacheUk forums regularly? I actually have no idea if so then agreed, it is a good place to continue the discussion. If not then they may be less willing to contribute if you see where i'm coming from. I am just after a neutral place which has no connection to any site Its just a hunt for a lunch box, why be so serious!?! Dan Wilson - www.Buckscaching.co.uk Posts: 173 | From: Aylesbury, England | Registered: February 17, 2002 washboy posted 11 May, 2003 03:58 AM G:UK and its forums is open to all. It's understandable that you might connect G:UK and GC.com since G:UK's stats pages tend to emphasise GC.com's data and G:UK also acts as a convenient UK source of GC.com/Groundspeak merchandise. But Mark (TheCat), who runs and finances G:UK, has always made it clear that the purpose of G:UK is to provide a dedicated home for the UK geocaching community (that's all UK cachers, regardless of which cache database they favour). In addition, G:UK complements the "official" content supplied at the Groundspeak site with special resources and information relevant to geocaching in the UK (that's the G:UK Stats pages, in particular). The G:UK forums are completely unbiased, uncensored and, so far, no moderation has been required. I use both G:UK and GC.com forums and I enjoy both. Things are currently a little more lively here ===== There's no such thing as a free lunchbox! [This message was edited by washboy on May 10, 2003 at 08:06 PM.] Posts: 20 | From: London, England | Registered: June 04, 2002 Icenians posted 11 May, 2003 07:29 AM When we talk about geocaching we need to understand the difference between a web site and geocaching. Geocaching was not started by GC.com they don't own or run the game niether do the others. To claim that GC.com are the biggest therefore they rule, this claim has been made, is the same as saying Twickenham have the biggest Rugby ground therefore their rules apply. (I have no idea who has the biggest Rugby ground) GC.com have a set of rules that say whether or not your cache can be put on their web site. That is only fair. They own it they are responsible for it and they have every right to do that. If I want to go out today and place a cache full of food, booze, adverts for the local pub or theme park I have every right to do that. I can even put it up on the web and invite the world to come and find it. (This all started with a tin of beans!) I just can't post it on GC.com site and I shouldn't expect to as it doesn't follow their rules. It is still a real cache in the real world that somebody *might* find. I concede that it wouldn't get many takers though. Now along comes the GAGB and a set of guidelines, I may or may not agree with, are forced on me because they speak for us all. This has already started over on navi*ache. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Posts: 103 | From: Norfolk, England | Registered: April 18, 2002 Icenians posted 11 May, 2003 07:44 AM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Richard & Beth: Ok, a couple of updates: Moss Trooper has posted an announcement about GAGB to N*vic*che, which in principle got a good reception, but the website's initial choice of complimentary links got a bit of a bumpy reception. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why should they be complimentary? Why should they link to you, they haven't had a chance to think about it yet. You have had 2 months to come up with a statement saying you want to represent them. GAGB are hiding behind excuses. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Moving on to the Lovelock question, it is slightly academic as from what I can gather he is not actively caching at the moment. (Last cache hidden Jan 2002, last cache find July 2002) It has been stated membership of GAGB is open to all UK geocachers, so it is open to anyone whether they cache through this site, another site, or don't log at all. However in order for any association to function each member will be expected to abide by the democratically expressed wishes of other members of the association. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are already assuming that those wishes will not be cover his opinion. Currently he is welcome elsewhere but your association is already starting the process of driving him out of there. A member of the GAGB has said that he can join if he doesn't place commercial caches. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Posts: 103 | From: Norfolk, England | Registered: April 18, 2002 Icenians posted 11 May, 2003 07:49 AM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Richard & Beth: Ok, a couple of updates: Moss Trooper has posted an announcement about GAGB to N*vic*che, which in principle got a good reception, but the website's initial choice of complimentary links got a bit of a bumpy reception. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wow. talk about spin. Aren't we stretching the truth a little here. The anouncement you speak of has 1 positive post from 19 and that was from an American. This is getting ridiculous! Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. [This message was edited by Icenians on May 10, 2003 at 11:59 PM.] Posts: 103 | From: Norfolk, England | Registered: April 18, 2002 Icenians posted 11 May, 2003 08:03 AM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Icenians: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Richard & Beth: Ok, a couple of updates: Moss Trooper has posted an announcement about GAGB to N*vic*che, which in principle got a good reception, but the website's initial choice of complimentary links got a bit of a bumpy reception. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wow. talk about spin. Aren't we stretching the truth a little here. The anouncement you speak of has 1 positive post from 19 and that was from an American. This is getting ridiculous! Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. [This message was edited by Icenians on May 10, 2003 at 11:59 PM.] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, 2 positive. That makes one from the UK then! Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Posts: 103 | From: Norfolk, England | Registered: April 18, 2002 Wood Smoke posted 11 May, 2003 09:14 AM As others have said "If this is an in-dependant organisational" why haven't the announcement of GAGB been posted on all Geocaching sites and forums? GeocacheUK Yahoo Group - Geocaching UK And why have not links to all Geocaching sites been added to the 'Links' page? WoodSmoke GeocacheUK - useful resources for the UK Geocaching community Posts: 54 | From: Havant, UK | Registered: February 28, 2003 Tim & June posted 11 May, 2003 10:00 AM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Wood Smoke: As others have said "If this is an in-dependant organisational" why haven't the announcement of GAGB been posted on all Geocaching sites and forums? http://www.guk1.com/nforum/default.asp http://groups.yahoo.com/group/geocaching_uk/?yguid=99734187 And why have not links to all Geocaching sites been added to the 'Links' page? WoodSmoke http://www.geocacheuk.com - useful resources for the UK Geocaching community -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As you have said before "Organisation takes time". Might I refer to your earlier post HERE where you said : quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internet Committees As was mentioned in another post I am new here, but what I am experienced at is organisation and committees. Geocaching in the UK is at a turning point (in my opinion), I think it needs organising now before it's too late. Organisation takes time, and so needs to be started early enough in the development so that it's not too late. As for how to do it, here are my suggestions...... 1. We are an internet based group and setting up 'Internet Committees' using chat rooms is almost as good as face to face, I know I've done it. 2. I believe we need several levels of organisation with committees at each level. National Regional Local Remember, committees don't have to be large. I would suggest that local committees would be about three people. 3. The place to start is with a National 'Steering Committee', this would be quite large and would 'write the rules', taking input from everyone. When their job is done, they then hand over to the other committees to guide Geocaching in the UK for the future. 4. All this takes time to set up. If we don't start now............... 5. Btw, I have no interest in taking over or even serving on any of the committees, but I do offer my organisational skills and experience in this area. WoodSmoke -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 171 | From: Winchester | Registered: August 22, 2001 Tim & June (Winchester) See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! Quote Link to comment
+Icenians Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Thank you for rescueing what you could T&J I have to pick up on your last post refering to things taking time in reply to woodsmoke. The GAGB website was updated on the 9th for the aims. This was the time to do the links. Will the founders stop avoiding the question and answer it? If you had time to update your aims you had time to bung up a link to the other sites. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Quote Link to comment
+Icenians Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Icenians:Thank you for rescuing what you could T&J I have to pick up on your last post refering to things taking time in reply to woodsmoke. The GAGB website was updated on the 9th for the aims. This was the time to do the links. Will the founders stop avoiding the question and answer it? If you had time to update your aims you had time to bung up a link to the other sites. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Quote Link to comment
+Icenians Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Woops. I meant to correct my bad spelling but replied instead. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Quote Link to comment
+paul.blitz Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 quote:_Fiddo .... Also what ever happened to NO caches on FC land, the ones in the NF are still there,even a new one added to the list???? Maybe someone else can clarify: who *IS* the final authority in the New Forest: is it the New Forest people themselves, or have they delegated all control to the FC? quote:Why would someone from Cornwall be able to do a better job of getting agreement to place a cache in my village when I could take the owner out for pint in the local and discuss it with them? How would 'you' (ie any cacher) know who the owner of a piece of land is? Sometimes it 100% obvious, but what about when it isn't? That's the sort of occasion when a central organisation may be able to help a lot, by pointing you to the correct places to look. In some cases, the organisation may already have some contacts (from previous geocacher requests for help) and be able to find the answer quite quickly. quote:As I said earlier I am helping set up an association for the young people of my village. We start off by asking them if they want one. And I bet the first question you get from them is 'an association to do WHAT though?', and you'll start telling them your thoughts (what else can you do?). For your first meeting, did you gather together ALL the kids together, or did you start by sounding out a few you know, asking 'do you think a young people's association' would be of any use / interest?... and any ideas what sort of thing it would do?'. (I'm sure most people would start by sounding out a few kids before possibly wasting time on something that is of no interest to the kids) I don't really see that as being *fundamentally* much different from what GAGB is doing. So, maybe the kids say they would like an organisation to represent them, to 'put their case forward'. Also maybe to help coordinate things they would like to do (discos.... socials....), because they don't have the experience or the contacts. Such an association could be an excellent thing.... no problems there. And it would rightly claim (to a lesser or greater extent) to represent what the kids want. BUT.. and it's a BIG but... it would probably NOT represent what 100% of the kids want. Some simply do NOT like to be 'organised'. Some don't want a skate park, or a disco. quote:First you have to identify the need and that shouldn't be done behind closed doors by a small section of people tied to one site. But a group (of one or more adults, who know each other already) organising a meeting for the local kids, probably predicting (I was going to say 'pre-guessing', but that has certain implications) what might come up so you can repond constructivley, is different from what GAGB have done? quote: I am shouting loudly to show they are not. I THINK WE HEARD! <grin> quote:_Team Hydro i can see a need, somebody has to negociate with HCC etc. This may seem to have been "done behind closed doors" but I am hoping that once up and running" it will be open to elections. Even with an elected committee (even Parish Councils) some things have to be done behind closed doors. As for elections, GAGB have clearly said they will elect a committe as soon as is possible / practical. As a very over worked mum of two, and teacher I am glad that someboy else is doing the negociating for me!! Posts: 2 | From: Hampshire | Registered: March 07, 2003 quote:_Team Paradise Maybe I'm naive or over simplifying things, but I'd have thought that an association that has members, by definition can only support/speak for it's members, otherwise what would be the point in having members ? There are many organisations around that lobby well beyond their membership. The Consumers Association is one such example.... I am not a member, but I uphold its general aims, as I'm sure do many others. I'm sure that some do NOT agree with what they do, but I think most people would agree that the CA 'represents the majority of consumers'. Paul Quote Link to comment
+Icenians Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Team Blitz:How would 'you' (ie any cacher) know who the owner of a piece of land is? Sometimes it 100% obvious, but what about when it isn't? That's the sort of occasion when a central organisation may be able to help a lot, by pointing you to the correct places to look. In some cases, the organisation may already have some contacts (from previous geocacher requests for help) and be able to find the answer quite quickly. A local cacher asking local people is far more likely to get an answer far quicker than any central organisation. For example, I know who owns the local wood, I helped plant it, I know which night they meet in the pub. How is someone centrally going to find out? I don't know who owns the land locally that is believed to be the burial mound of Bodica on it but I can probably find out by asking a few people. A central organisation would have trouble even finding the mound on a map. It isn't marked! quote:And I bet the first question you get from them is 'an association to do WHAT though?', and you'll start telling them your thoughts (what else can you do?). For your first meeting, did you gather together ALL the kids together, or No not enough turned up so we stopped the meeting and tried again with more publicity. The point here is that the association doesn't exist yet, not even any founding members, nothing because we don't know if they want it yet. If they do then we arrange elections if they don't we go home and let them hang around the phone box. The point is we haven't formed it behind closed doors and we want to ask as many kids as possible if they want one. If and only if they do, we will help them set it up. quote:I don't really see that as being *fundamentally* much different from what GAGB is doing. We didn't wake up one morning with a web site and announce to just on street, albeit the main rd, that we have an organisation that will represent you all and talk to the parish council for you. That is just plain rude! quote:Such an association could be an excellent thing.... no problems there. And it would rightly claim (to a lesser or greater extent) to represent what the kids want. BUT.. and it's a BIG but... it would probably NOT represent what 100% of the kids want. Some simply do NOT like to be 'organised'. Some don't want a skate park, or a disco. Totally agree. And we wouldn't claim to do that. GAGB is claiming that. 'The SINGLE Voice of UK geocachers' quote:But a group (of one or more adults, who know each other already) organising a meeting for the local kids, probably predicting (I was going to say 'pre-guessing', but that has certain implications) what might come up so you can repond constructivley, is different from what GAGB have done? Yes different. We haven't started out telling the world we, the association, are representing you whether you like it or not. GAGB is already an association with members and a stated aim of being my geocaching voice. But now we are just going around in circles. quote:I THINK WE HEARD! <grin> Yep. which was my aim. I think you would agree that many points have come out of this debate which will hopefully make your association all the better, not neccasarily my points I would add. If I have managed to make even one person think a bit deeper about this then I consider the risk of alienating myself on this forum worthwhile. quote:Even with an elected committee (even Parish Councils) some things have to be done behind closed doors. But they aren't formed behind closed doors. quote:As for elections, GAGB have clearly said they will elect a committe as soon as is possible / practical. I never doubted they wouldn't. quote: _Team Paradise Maybe I'm naive or over simplifying things, but I'd have thought that an association that has members, by definition can only support/speak for it's members, otherwise what would be the point in having members ? There are many organisations around that lobby well beyond their membership. The Consumers Association is one such example.... I am not a member, but I uphold its general aims, as I'm sure do many others. I'm sure that some do NOT agree with what they do, but I think most people would agree that the CA 'represents the majority of consumers'. Paul Yes we all benefit from their lobbying but the benefit from that is not that I can only shop in Tescos when wearing red wellies. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Quote Link to comment
+paul.blitz Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Icenians: quote:Originally posted by Team Blitz:How would 'you' (ie any cacher) know who the owner of a piece of land is? Sometimes it 100% obvious, but what about when it isn't? That's the sort of occasion when a central organisation may be able to help a lot, by pointing you to the correct places to look. In some cases, the organisation may already have some contacts (from previous geocacher requests for help) and be able to find the answer quite quickly. A local cacher asking local people is far more likely to get an answer far quicker than any central organisation. For example, I know who owns the local wood, I helped plant it, I know which night they meet in the pub. How is someone centrally going to find out? I don't know who owns the land locally that is believed to be the burial mound of Bodica on it but I can probably find out by asking a few people. A central organisation would have trouble even finding the mound on a map. It isn't marked! *YOU* are lucky that you know *this* information. You know it because (a) it is in YOUR village, and ( you know a lot of the people there. But what about that path, about maybe 5 or 10 miles away from the village, where you do NOT know the relevant people? My point is (and others HAVE already agreed) that some would not know who to contact, or how to contact them. THOSE people will graetly appreciate some help from someone with experience & information. quote:And I bet the first question you get from them is 'an association to do WHAT though?', and you'll start telling them your thoughts (what else can you do?). For your first meeting, did you gather together ALL the kids together, or quote:No not enough turned up so we stopped the meeting and tried again with more publicity. The point here is that the association doesn't exist yet, not even any founding members, nothing because we don't know if they want it yet. But YOU are still one of the 'founder members' of this 'potential organisation', like it or not... YOU are the one trying to organise a meeting... The fact that you will instantly step aside when they have worked out the details is irrelevant! quote:The point is we haven't formed it behind closed doors and we want to ask as many kids as possible if they want one. Who is this **we**? Has your (albeit preliminary) discussions with the others of this team of **we** been done in the open, in front of ALL of the kids? No, you will have made a phone call, maybe something like: 'hey, Jim, can we use the church hall on Friday to set up a meeting for the kids?'. THAT IS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS!!!!! quote: quote:Even with an elected committee (even Parish Councils) some things have to be done behind closed doors. But they aren't formed behind closed doors. I wouldn't bet on that.... you will probably find that many such committees START behind closed doors.... maybe 3 City Councillors (or whoever) meet in the bar after some other meeting.... they will talk to other people about it, and at some point the formal issue is raised at the relevant committee, or in a letter to the press "is there any interest...." or "it is planned to, any interest..." quote: quote:There are many organisations around that lobby well beyond their membership. The Consumers Association is one such example.... Yes we all benefit from their lobbying but the benefit from that is not that I can only shop in Tescos when wearing red wellies. There is nothing to stop you posting your caches in say Navicache.com. You can do it AS WELL as CG.COM, or INSTEAD OF. However, if you want it on GC.COM, then you certainly WILL have to abide by the guidelines set by the GAGB. Whether Navicache also wish to apply the same requirements is up to them. In any case, you will probably find that the GAGB guidelines are what the landowner requires (eg HCC certainly will), so by placing a 'sub-standard' cache, you risk upsetting that landowner, and bring caching (generally, site-unrelated) into disrepute. Paul Quote Link to comment
+paul.blitz Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Icenians: dadgum, I thought I replied to this. dadgum Computers! One of them must have lost it Well, I really CAN'T be bothered to do it AGAIN....... Paul My wife uses a cache box to take her sandwiches to work... how odd! Quote Link to comment
+paul.blitz Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 In a friendly attempt to try & prove even-handedness, I would like to make sure everyone is aware that there is a similar thread in progress over at theNavicache Site..... You'll find the actual thread here Over on that thread, Hornet posted: quote:However any attempt to post a link to THIS forum on GC.COM gets censored. Not an encouraging sign I hope that the forum admins will NOT delete this post: if people want to know EVERYONE'S feelings about the creation of GAGB, then it is only fair to help them to see OTHER areas of conversation other than those just here at GC.COM. (To be fair, I've not read any of the threads on GC:UK yet, but I heard that there is one (or more?)) My wife uses a cache box to take her sandwiches to work... how odd! Quote Link to comment
+Icenians Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Team Blitz:In a friendly attempt to try & prove even-handedness, I would like to make sure everyone is aware that there is a similar thread in progress over at thehttp://www.navicache.com..... You'll find the actual thread http://www.navicache.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=3ebea23428a5ffff;act=ST;f=21;t=12 Over on that thread, Hornet posted: quote:However any attempt to post a link to THIS forum on GC.COM gets censored. Not an encouraging sign I hope that the forum admins will NOT delete this post: if people want to know EVERYONE'S feelings about the creation of GAGB, then it is only fair to help them to see OTHER areas of conversation other than those just here at GC.COM. (To be fair, I've not read any of the threads on GC:UK yet, but I heard that there is one (or more?)) My wife uses a cache box to take her sandwiches to work... how odd! They deleted muine when I used the name. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Quote Link to comment
el10t Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Team Blitz:(To be fair, I've not read any of the threads on GC:UK yet, but I heard that there is one (or more?)) Yes, its here. Rich mobilis in mobili Quote Link to comment
+tgsnoopy Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Hi all. I thought I might offer an explaination of how Tim (or June) might have accidently deleted that string. I'm one of two moderators of the Groundspeak forums in New Zealand. On one occasion I accidently double clicked the Post button whilst making a reply to a string. It created two replies. When I deleted the duplicate, I used back to return to the message string. As it refreshes the page, it effectively tried to delete a message in the string that had already been deleted, as a result for some reason it deleted the whole string. It was a situation we were able to recreate. Unfortunately Tim (or June) would have had no indication this would happen, and it is an unreversable situation. As using back is normal procedure in a lot of circumstances it's a trap. Hopefully one that will be resolved in the future. I close the window after all deletes in the forums now, and create a new window to go back in and confirm the deletions. Thanks for reading this . Quote Link to comment
+Tim & June Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 Thanks tgsnoopy, At least I now know where I went wrong. Take care Quote Link to comment
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