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Sad day for GAGB


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The precis is that on the GAGB forum, someone gave Tim and June a right old slagging, which, if it had to be said at all, should have been said in a private email, not a public forum. T&J, not surprisingly, took exception and have resigned as chair of the GAGB, saying (IIRC) "Someone else can take the flak".

 

I believe the forum was hosted on Tim's business web server, so I suspect its being down is neither accidental nor temporary.

 

I agree, a sad and possibly terminal day for the GAGB. I can't see anyone wanting to take over the reins while such things are likely to be publicly posted about them.

 

Paul G0TLG

 

A member of the Geocaching Association of Great Britain

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I have, further down said NF thread, said that I meant nothing personal by my words. I didn't. It was not meant as a "slagging" and was not done via e-mail because:

 

1: It was not meant to be personal

2: I had no reply from an issue very much related to what I said when it was sent by email a while ago.

3: Geocachers in the UK need to know that the guidelines under discussion prohibit activities, such as ours, from being active in June and October. Yet we were placing caches just before these months, whilst some of us knew better.

 

I have added words of apology for any offence caused, my words were never meant to hurt anybody.

 

Neil.

 

Some people are born great, some achieve greatness, and some just grate

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quote:
I agree, a sad and possibly terminal day for the GAGB. I can't see anyone wanting to take over the reins while such things are likely to be publicly posted about them.

 

I would think that *anyone* taking on that kind of roll in any organisation of this kind should be fully prepared to have "such things" said.

 

I'd consider the ability to deal effectively with criticism whether it is warranted or not, whether it is legitimate or "slagging" should be pretty much vital for anyone considering such a role.

 

While I don't want to get involved in the politics of Geocaching myself, I am very happy to support the GAGB and would like to see it prosper. Likewise I have no real experience in these sort of organisations but I would assume that if they are going to enjoy any sort of longevity then they must be able to survive the resignation of some elected officers.

 

If Tim and June resigning is "terminal" for the GAGB then there must be something fundamentally wrong with whatever political structure it's based on.

 

If a single thread about something some members of an organisation consider important getting heated is enough to destroy that organisation then I really don't see how that organisation would stand much chance of surviving in the long run anyway.

 

I think the GAGB is a good idea, and as I have already said I fully support it. I do hope this is not terminal. I don't see why it should be.

 

Thanks for keeping the website/forum alive and get well soon June.

 

________________________

What is caches precious?

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quote:
Originally posted by NattyBooshka:

2: I had no reply from an issue very much related to what I said when it was sent by email a while ago.


 

If we had received an email, we would have answered it.

 

Much work has been done at head office level rather than local which has even involved government bodies. We were asked to not discuss the matter further until later down the road. We would always respect such requests 100% because those involved were helping US.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Team AshandEs:

I'd consider the ability to deal effectively with criticism whether it is warranted or not, whether it is legitimate or "slagging" should be pretty much vital for anyone considering such a role.


 

There is only so much crap one can take, and those immortal words "If you can't stand the heat . . ." fall immediately to mind.

 

Thanks for your and everyone elses good wishes to June.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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Sadly, anyone who sticks their head above the parapet and gets involved in any voluntary work is going take c**p - sadly many don't realise until it's too late, just how much.

 

Until a year ago I was membership officer of a national charity - a voluntary, spare time position. I faced unjustified criticism, justified but insensitively presented criticism, and plain rudeness. Four days after my father died, a member of the organisation offered to break my legs for no better reason than that he didn't like committee members in general.

 

It's true that anyone who takes over from T&J will have to expect a ton of the same kind of treatment they've had. Which is why I think the GAGB will have trouble finding anyone who'll do it for long.

 

Paul

 

A member of the Geocaching Association of Great Britain

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We wish June a speedy recovery.

 

I well appreciate the time juggle that something like the GAGB must be. However, also citing an additional reason for quitting as 'ingrates' on the list seems like a pretty low blow and shows how flawed it all was. The history of the GAGB (and this forum) has been mired by resignations (genuine or otherwise) and battles over opinions - I'd even go as far as saying that if anyone resigns it should be for good. I think that all this has bought the end of legitimate geocaching in the UK a lot closer and I think that the time may have come to close the door on it. Pulling the plug on the elections really is the final straw. I supported the GAGB but had reservations, now I feel it has harmed geocaching greatly (many will disagree with this but let's see who is right in 12 months time - I hope I'm not, but fear I will). The GAGB never really clicked with cachers on the ground and I think that was the problem. Many had concerns that weren't taken seriously but seen as personal attacks.

Sorry, but the GAGB will have to do a lot to convince me that it is worth supporting again. :-(

 

Elm'r

Team Bugz n Elm'r

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quote:
Originally posted by Bugz n Elm'r (& RoadRunna & Twee-T):

 

Pulling the plug on the elections really is the final straw.


 

I think this was a "twitch" emotional decision and I think it has since been reversed. I'm glad that happened.

 

________________________

What is caches precious?

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quote:
Originally posted by Team AshandEs:

quote:
Originally posted by Bugz n Elm'r (& RoadRunna & Twee-T):

 

Pulling the plug on the elections really is the final straw.


 

I think this was a "twitch" emotional decision and I think it has since been reversed. I'm glad that happened.

 

________________________

What is caches precious?


 

Emotional twitches are common here (more like a reflex) ... be thankful these people only want to control geocaching and not anything really important icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Elm'r

Team Bugz n Elm'r

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quote:
Originally posted by Stu & Sarah:

quote:
Originally posted by Bugz n Elm'r (& RoadRunna & Twee-T):

I think that all this has bought the end of legitimate geocaching in the UK a lot closer


Why don't we just go round hiding and finding lunch-boxes or ammo tins or film canisters?

 

Or is that too easy?

 

Stu


 

Way too easy ... icon_frown.gif

 

Elm'r

Team Bugz n Elm'r

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quote:
Originally posted by Bugz n Elm'r (& RoadRunna & Twee-T):

be thankful these people only want to control geocaching and not anything really important Elm'r

Team Bugz n Elm'r


 

Clearly you have no concept of what the GAGB and all ther work we did was for.

 

Why don't you just **** off.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Bugz n Elm'r (& RoadRunna & Twee-T):

be thankful these people only want to control geocaching and not anything really important icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Elm'r

Team Bugz n Elm'r


 

From what I could see no one wanted to CONTROL anything. I don't think for one moment that anyone who set up the GAGB are control freaks. They wanted to advance geocaching for the benefit of all and we are grateful for their efforts.

 

Can we also take this chance to wish June a speedy recovery.

 

There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.

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quote:
Originally posted by Tim & June:

 

Clearly you have no concept of what the GAGB and all ther work we did was for.

 

Why don't you just **** off.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif


 

Whatever ... icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Elm'r

Team Bugz n Elm'r

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quote:
Originally posted by Tim & June:

 

Clearly you have no concept of what the GAGB and all ther work we did was for.

 

Why don't you just **** off.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif


 

It is worrying that GAGB representatives respond it this way for ANY reason. Even when they have resigned.

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As a relative newcomer to geocaching I feel dismayed reading this kind of stuff in the forums. I thought it was all about people having a bit of fun, getting out into the countryside or exploring parts of towns and cities not visited before, and occasionally meeting others sharing the interest. This kind of debate just puts me off, and I hope that those getting drawn into a 'political' side of geocaching are in the minority of those involved in the 'sport'. No doubt someone will post an irate reply to this, and I will not bother looking on the forums again.

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quote:
Originally posted by el10t:

Actually they aren't GAGB representatives if they have resigned.

 

Rich (A founder member of http://www.gagb.org.uk)

http://www.puzzledonkey.org


True, el10t, and we are not members of GAGB we just like to find cache occasionally. But whether we like it or not GAGB seems to be negotiating with high up land managers and this sort of outburst from someone who did represent Geocaching in the UK does not inspire confidence, however provoked. People who are negotiators act calmly and courteously at ALL times. Land managers would not like an outburst like this and there is no excuse even if the ***** are in place of the letters we all know what they mean.

This is a family game please keep the profanity’s off this message board. We do not want to start a precedent here.

Keith and Katherine.

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Amazing! I go away for a couple of day's caching and all hell breaks loose. I've only just had time to read what has been going on and I thinks the title of this thread says it all. I would proably expand the title to 'Sad day for geocaching in the UK'

 

I have my own opinions on what has been said and done but those I will keep to myself.

 

I think it is right that a forum is used to discuss opposing points of view which is what has happened for the most part here and in the GAGB threads. However this is in danger of becoming another example of discussion degenerating into something less than savoury.

 

So please keep your postings to this thread civil or it will be locked.

 

------------------------------

Chill out - I'm doing my best!

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quote:
Originally posted by Tim & June:

 

Clearly you have no concept of what the GAGB and all ther work we did was for.

 

Why don't you just **** off.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif


 

Whatever ... icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Elm'r

Team Bugz n Elm'r

 

T+J have done an amazing job over the last few years, and have continued to enjoy many caching expeditions. I have an awful lot of respect for these two. I had the pleasure of meeting you both at the HCC caching event, and a nicer couple you'd be hard to find. I haven't followed the threads over the last few days and must say it must have taken A LOT to get Tim riled up.

 

Replying with a comment of 'whatever' shows the lack of respect and common decency a lot of people have toward others. T+J are founder members of GC.Com and to have somebody who has been caching for six months to treat them unfairly is out of order. I understand personal opinions are valid and Tim should not have used the magic four letter word in reply. This just shows how pent up frustration can lead to outburst of this kind.

 

Tim, I don't blame you for Resigning. As stated before, you and June have done a fantastic job within the caching community and you continue to have my respect and support.

 

Onwards and upwards. Never retreat, never surrender.

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I realize that what I said was disrespectful - but do you have any suggestions as to how I should have responded?

It seems to me that all the GAGB want to hear is praise and thanks for what they've done ... anyone with reservations or doubts is met with a great deal of hostility.

Tim: It is control. Quitting and knee-jerk pulling of the election is emotional control. I don't know why you responded in the way you did to me but I was making what I thought to be a valid point - if you were in Jeremy's position, would GC.com still be going.

If you don't want openness, say so (I've said that before) and you can have control over what is said over on GAGB.org.uk but your vulgar posts will not intimidate me off of a public forum. If only members that agree with you are welcome in the GAGB, fine, but remember, GC.com isn't the GAGB.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Sparticus:

Replying with a comment of 'whatever' shows the lack of respect and common decency a lot of people have toward others. T+J are founder members of GC.Com and to have somebody who has been caching for six months to treat them unfairly is out of order. I understand personal opinions are valid and Tim should not have used the magic four letter word in reply. This just shows how pent up frustration can lead to outburst of this kind.

surrender.


 

Elm'r

Team Bugz n Elm'r

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quote:
Originally posted by Bugz n Elm'r (& RoadRunna & Twee-T):

........ but remember, GC.com isn't the GAGB.

 


 

This is very true guys, so, please, lets not say things here that may, needlessly, inflame a very emotive issue.

 

By all means discuss the potential of the GAGB issue; and discuss what it could mean to caching in the UK, but if you wish to discuss the internal politics of GAGB then the forum on that site is the place to do it.

 

Many Thanks,

 

Eckington

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Building on what Eckington is saying, can I respectfully ask that we don't stoop to petty infights here, people.

 

All I seem to be reading of late is "He called me an ingrate" or similar.

 

People are being offended left right and centre here, and all it is doing is splitting a group who basically have more or less the same interest: the game of Geocaching.

 

Let's not forget that - I think it's important enough to warrant repeating, so I will: We are here for the same reason, and the reason is the game of Geocaching.

 

Arguments about what should/shouldn't have been said are academic now, and nothing more. They do have a place to be discussed, but if we are going to make any sort of progress we're going to need someone/something to take up the burden of work that has been left.

 

Someone is now going to have to front the GAGB, if it is to continue - and if it isn't, we are going to need a viable alternative to approach major landowning/managing bodies, while still promoting an equal account of Geocaching intents and Guidelines for the entireity of the country.

 

As Dan's Sigline famously says "It's only a hunt for a lunchbox, why be so serious?"

 

------

"There's Sparticus. That's him, over there."

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quote:
Originally posted by Kouros:

Building on what Eckington is saying, can I respectfully ask that we don't stoop to petty infights here, people.


Well said... we thought this thread had gone way OTT and off topic a long time ago. We will not discuss the NF issue further on GAGB as it is an issue for all, but we will not discuss GAGB issues on here either. Maybe difficult to seperate them, but we'll do our best.

 

Some people are born great, some achieve greatness, and some just grate

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quote:
Originally posted by Kouros:

 

All I seem to be reading of late is "He called me an ingrate" or similar.


 

I suspect you'd read it a lot less if people would stop calling people who disagree with them "ingrates".

 

I agree we should avoid petty infighting, but that's a lot more likely to happen if we stop with the name calling as well.

 

Tough on petty infighting, tough on the causes of petty infighting icon_wink.gif

 

________________________

What is caches precious?

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I'll throw this in here because it seems as good a place as any...

 

Has anyone noticed how we all get on in real life, at cache bashes etc, but seem to misread each other's motives and opinions on these electronic fora?

 

I believe that the meeting of minds at a cache bash is a very good parallel activity to anything that any representative body might do.

 

I have personally watched while a problem that would take days even weeks to argue out on here, is solved in minutes by the interested parties gathered around a table in a beer garden in the sunshine, with a pint in their hand.

 

In addition to the GAGB, GC.COM, Friends of the New Forest, or whatever, there is just no substitute to actually going and meeting your fellow cachers. I have found them all to be quite charming people. Plus they can't hide behind sock-puppets, and trolling in a beer garden usually results in the troll buying the next round as punishment!

 

No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced....

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quote:
Originally posted by MCL:

I'll throw this in here because it seems as good a place as any...

 

Has anyone noticed how we all get on in real life, at cache bashes etc, but seem to misread each other's motives and opinions on these electronic fora?

 

I believe that the meeting of minds at a cache bash is a very good parallel activity to anything that any representative body might do.

 

I have personally watched while a problem that would take days even weeks to argue out on here, is solved in minutes by the interested parties gathered around a table in a beer garden in the sunshine, with a pint in their hand.

 

In addition to the GAGB, GC.COM, Friends of the New Forest, or whatever, there is just no substitute to actually going and meeting your fellow cachers. I have found them all to be quite charming people. Plus they can't hide behind sock-puppets, and trolling in a beer garden usually results in the troll buying the next round as punishment!


Well said... though I've witnessed enough bar fights and actually seen fists thrown in business meetings! Point taken though... and if life had that elusive undo-button, we'd be putting our case in a different way... something that is easier to achieve with real-time discussion, which is achievable electronically or face-to-face, but sadly we do not have as a group/organization an a daily basis... We guess the answer is more cache bashes and more beer... any takers?

 

Cheers,

Emily & Neil

 

The welfare of the forest and it's wildlife must come before the game.

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I hold my hand up and admit that sometimes I make comments that, once re-read, could be misconstrued. If it wasn't for the 'emoticons' there would be a lot more discord here.

 

I think it's always sad when hard work hits 'Pharisee's Wall' but the common-sense approach that (from a non-caching POV as well as my own 'cacher opinions') the GAGB stands for will win through.

 

In the meantime, I would be happy to take the hamster's advice and drink more beer and talk about caching face to face.

 

Andy

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quote:
Originally posted by Dan Wilson:

I thinks thats an offer of a pint for EVERYONE from MCL, see you down the local matey icon_wink.gif

 


 

Hey Dan you know I'll buy you a beer anyday.

 

icon_biggrin.gif

 

No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced....

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quote:
Originally posted by Firth of Forth:

As a relative newcomer to geocaching I feel dismayed reading this kind of stuff in the forums. I thought it was all about people having a bit of fun, getting out into the countryside or exploring parts of towns and cities not visited before, and occasionally meeting others sharing the interest. This kind of debate just puts me off, and I hope that those getting drawn into a 'political' side of geocaching are in the minority of those involved in the 'sport'. No doubt someone will post an irate reply to this, and I will not bother looking on the forums again.


 

Hello and welcome to geocaching.

I'm so sorry you were dismayed at what you were reading on the forums. I too felt like you a few months ago and now very rarely read them as I just get angry at how rude and disrespectful some people choose to be. If you truely enjoy geocaching, as I do, then carry on but don't take this part too seriously. If you manage to get to any events you will soon see that most people are really lovely and its a pleasure to share a common interest with them.

Happy Caching!! icon_smile.gif

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Welcome to Geocaching and its Sub Plots,

I have to agree with Firth of Forths view, and the response from Krazy Kats! It is too easy to sit behind a keyboard and say things, which you wouldn’t normally say when faced with and knowing the subject (s) in person. This I have noticed in the amount of “I didn’t mean it like that” replies in the forums…sad!

 

It is also to easy to shoot down folk who are willing to try and enhance a hobby/sport for the benefit of all. I am of the opinion that if you are willing to do this, and think you can do better, put your name down for nomination and all that it may involve, prior to expounding your criticism! You will be guaranteed that you will be the next in line for the next control freak badge.

 

To quote FoF “I thought it was all about people having a bit of fun, getting out into the countryside or exploring parts of towns and cities not visited before, and occasionally meeting others sharing the interest.”

 

Or have some members..(when they choose to be!) lost the basic plot somewhere along the way!! Duh!

 

I will continue caching in FoF’s and KK’s vein however, and hope those involved in the politics of it all ‘chill out’… as an earlier contributor mentioned.

 

Regards to all, whatever and whoever, and if you’re a newcomer, don’t let this put you off

 

Thanks DD

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