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TheCat

By TheCat
in United Kingdom and Ireland

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L8 Ed

L8 Ed

Posted
Posted

Troll eh, nice I must say Dogs Breath.

Just because someone is not in agreement with you start with the insults. icon_mad.gif

Not everyone logs on the geocaching.com site.

I must have found over 200 never found the need to log or bother with that stuff. The fun is finding them not broadcasting it. I want the easy download of the caches to mapsource anyway possible.

ED

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Chris n Maria

+Chris n Maria

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by L8 Ed:

Not everyone logs on the geocaching.com site.

I must have found over 200 never found the need to log or bother with that stuff.

ED

So the people who placed the caches you found don't deserve the curtesy of being informed that someone found it?

 

It's a game of give and take yet you seem keen to do the taking yet giving something back is all too hard.

 

Chris

 

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

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el10t

el10t

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by L8 Ed:

Troll eh, nice I must say Dogs Breath.

Just because someone is not in agreement with you start with the insults. icon_mad.gif

Glad to see I am being proven correct.

quote:

Not everyone logs on the geocaching.com site.

I must have found over 200 never found the need to log or bother with that stuff.

Which renders the statistics offered by geocacheuk.com completely pointless to you - therefore why do you feel the site should take the approach you recommended?

Mind you - I take my hat off to your dedication. 200 finds since September is certainly going at a rate of knots. Congratulations on your double century!

quote:

I want the easy download of the caches to mapsource anyway possible.

If you become a charter member then you can do this with extra functionality as a pocket query. And you help support the site, which would possibly be a little bit more constructive.

 

Rich

mobilis in mobili

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L8 Ed

L8 Ed

Posted
Posted

Which renders the statistics offered by geocacheuk.com completely pointless to you - therefore why do you feel the site should take the approach you recommended?

Mind you - I take my hat off to your dedication. 200 finds since September is certainly going at a rate of knots. Congratulations on your double century!

 

I did not start in September I started way back.

You only need to log in if you want to post anything. I DID NOT my choice OK. I am not interested in the stats Just the abillity to download straight to Mapsource.

 

If you become a charter member then you can do this with extra functionality as a pocket query. And you help support the site, which would possibly be a little bit more constructive.

 

I don't want to.

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Chris n Maria

+Chris n Maria

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by L8 Ed:

I did not start in September I started way back.

You only need to log in if you want to post anything. I DID NOT my choice OK. I am not interested in the stats Just the abillity to download straight to Mapsource.

 

If you become a charter member ....

I don't want to.

Well as you only seem to be interested in what is good for you, and not anyone one else. I am sure it wouldn't take you long to write a program that scrapes just the information YOU need from the site and into a PCX5/Mapsource file that is of use just for YOU.

Then you won't have to play nicely with all the other boys and girls and can go off and play your own game.

 

Chris

 

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

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el10t

el10t

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by L8 Ed:

I did not start in September I started way back.

You only need to log in if you want to post anything. I DID NOT my choice OK. I am not interested in the stats Just the abillity to download straight to Mapsource.

...

I don't want to [become a charter member].

Fair enough - each to their own. Shall we agree to disagree?

 

Rich

mobilis in mobili

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The Northumbrian

+The Northumbrian

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by L8 Ed:

Troll eh, nice I must say Dogs Breath.

Just because someone is not in agreement with you start with the insults. icon_mad.gif

Not everyone logs on the geocaching.com site.

I must have found over 200 never found the need to log or bother with that stuff. The fun is finding them not broadcasting it. I want the easy download of the caches to mapsource anyway possible.

ED

Dont I know you?

And I'm certain your names not Ed. Its WALLY

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Huga

+Huga

Posted
Posted

Just wanna say that it's fab news that geocacheuk.com is coming back in (hopefully) all its former glory.

 

And can we lock this thread now? It's starting to get nasty...

 

Keep caching icon_smile.gif

 

--

**Mother is the name of God on the lips of all children**

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el10t

el10t

Posted
Posted

[oops deleted]

 

[Added later in the day - But what I was going to say was that I think the thread should stay live for the key reason Mark mentions below - its main purpose is to keep everyone informed of the GC/GUK situation]

 

[This message was edited by el10t on December 17, 2002 at 03:05 PM.]

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TheCat

+TheCat

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I would like to keep the topic open if it is at all possible so I can keep people informed about the progress on the Stats Pages. But please can we just ignore Ed ???? whatever his name is. If we do hopefully he might go elsewhere. If this proves a problem and we still get problems then by all means lock the thread. The only problem with this is that he will of won.

 

Mark (TheCat)

 

www.geocacheuk.com

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Lance Ambu

+Lance Ambu

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Teasel:

 

Yes, I can see it now...

- We switch the stats pages back on

- Jeremy wastes time adding us to his firewall

- We waste time installing the scraper on another server

- Jeremy wastes time randomly corrupting any requests made by our new server

- We waste time writing code to bounce our requests off random proxies, at random intervals

- Jeremy deletes our IDs and archives all our caches

- We waste time creating new IDs and relogging all our finds

- Jeremy continues to waste time and money threatening us and our ISP with tenuous international copyright law suits

- The UK caching community realise they owe far more loyalty to Jeremy than to us, and don't visit our site anyway

 

No, I enjoy geocaching, and I'm afraid I'd prefer not to fall on my sword in this way!

 

Yes, I'm with you here. icon_biggrin.gif

Sandra Bullick plays Mark

Keanu Reeves plays Jeremy

The CIA have an interest in the mysterious copyrighted code as it duplicates the launch codes of something very big. icon_wink.gif

The Russians, NO wait! The Monrovians have secretly replaced Jeremy with a sleeper (Elias) who is actually working for the Vogon destructor fleet...

 

Could I copyright this? icon_smile.gif

 

Seriously - Please shake hands and be friends, its nearly Christmas and I'll have to go caching just to get out of the house.

I log onto both sites simply because they compliment one another - what could be any better. icon_confused.gif

 

That's supposed to read as even handed support of both parties in the spirit of reconciliation and Geocaching.

 

Caching through the snow in a one horse open sleigh!

 

Lance

It's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.

 

[This message was edited by Lance Ambu on December 17, 2002 at 02:29 PM.]

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welch

+welch

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Lance Ambu:

Yes, I'm with you here. icon_biggrin.gif

Sandra Bullick plays Mark

Keanu Reeves plays Jeremy

The CIA have an interest in the mysterious copyrighted code as it duplicates the launch codes of something very big. icon_wink.gif

The Russians, NO wait! The Monrovians have secretly replaced Jeremy with a sleeper (Elias) who is actually working for the Vogon destructor fleet...

 

Could I copyright this? icon_smile.gif

Yes, But Only your version. icon_wink.gif

 

waypoint_link.gif22008_1700.gif37_gp_logo88x31.jpg

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el10t

el10t

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by TheCat:

I would like to keep the topic open if it is at all possible so I can keep people informed about the progress on the Stats Pages.

I'm definitely with Mark on this one. Keep the thread open so we can track progress on the GUK/GC liaison.

Besides, I don't think there is a problem - It's a case of differing opinions. No harm done.

Rich

mobilis in mobili

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L8 Ed

L8 Ed

Posted
Posted

Ok just look at the posts from my original. It was a genuine post I got a couple of reasonable replies from Teasle and Cat.

BUT from el10t:- “Actually, I suspect this is an inflammatory note from a troll”.

Then Pay no attention to this fellows advice from The Northumbrian.

Ok not very friendly but not too insulting.

But followed later by:- The Northumbrian saying Don’t I know you? And I'm certain your names not Ed. Its WALLY.

That show his stamp I thought about responding to this but I will not lower myself to his level this time.

 

The Cat’s first post was constructive as I said but what prompted:-

If we do hopefully he might go elsewhere. If this proves a problem and we still get problems then by all means lock the thread. The only problem with this is that he will of won.

 

I made a suggestion, ok you think it’s a bad one. The only problem I am guilty of is responding to the Troll remark. I don’t want to win anything. If I go away I won’t have lost nor won. You will have lost, you will have lost the ability to convince me that your way is the best and that you are a reasonable bunch.(which from the treatment dished out to me is questionable to say the least)

 

A further posting from Chris n Maria

 

Well as you only seem to be interested in what is good for you, and not anyone one else. I am sure it wouldn't take you long to write a program that scrapes just the information YOU need from the site and into a PCX5/Mapsource file that is of use just for YOU.

Then you won't have to play nicely with all the other boys and girls and can go off and play your own

game.

 

First bit constructive yes I will do as you say and sort out a program to do this. I don’t know why I did not think of it before. Well I do it was easy to use what was there. If it does not come back on I will do this.

As for the boys and girls bit I totally agree. I am a reasonable chap but Christmas will see more GPS usage and the price is coming down you will only have to be insulting to the wrong person who will then take revenge the easy way you can Guess what I mean.

If the 12 or so of you think that you are the only word in UK Geocaching then you are wrong. There are more people out there than your little band.(if the stats were working I could tell you how many plus the few of us who don’t log, and perhaps there are more of them than you think)

ED (not Wally or Troll) or anything else OK

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Tim & June

+Tim & June

Posted
Posted

To reply to L8 Ed's question "Why so nasty ?" and in an attempt to try to keep this thread on topic.

 

I guess L8 Ed, that you did not read the whole of this thread, because the contentious issue of copyright has been discussed at length. Plus, there are numerous references to maintaining a good relationship with Geocaching.com in order to gain approval for the scraping of info from the pages. Taking and re-broadcasting information from any website has it's associated copyright issues (which I do not wish to start again) and that is why good relationships are critical.

 

Your title was "Do it anyway" which really means ignore the wishes of GC.com and all the cachers who agreed with sorting the situation out properly thereby securing the services for a long time to come. The tone of your post indicated that you understood the situation.

 

Any post which seems to be inflammatory and ignoring the points already agreed upon is likely to be interpreted as someone trolling for a flame war. That's what you got.

 

It's time now to (as el10t said) agree to disagree and move along. It might be that your initial post in this thread was not too well considered and it's possible that you no longer feel that The Cat should just "do it anyway", in which case, fine.

 

I will not lock the thread because the content is of interest to cachers in the UK and G:UK.com can keep us all informed of his progress.

 

Take care & happy caching,

Tim & June

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Chris n Maria

+Chris n Maria

Posted
Posted

I'd just like to say that I took no objection to L8EDs "Do it Anyway" post. Rather I just find it a bit sad that someone does not log their finds regarding it as being about point scoring rather than providing feedback to the person who provided the cache.

 

But that really is a subject for a different thread.

 

Chris

 

Bear rescues a speciality!

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

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The Hornet

+The Hornet

Posted
Posted

Mark, how are the negotiations going? I'm suffering withdrawl symptoms at the lack of accurate stats.

 

Came across this link http://www.insidecorner.com/geocaching/stats/countries.cgi?country=United%20Kingdom in another thread. How come this inferior tool is allowed and your/Teasel's much better one is not?

 

_________________________________________________________

 

It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do.

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Teasel

+Teasel

Posted
Posted

Things still seem to be progressing. On 13th December, I got an email from Elias indicating that he was working on an XML feed of the UK cache data, but that there were still a few political issues still to be worked out.

 

For example, they are worried about people getting lists of cache coordinates without first signing the Grounded inc licence agreement. In response, I've added the licence agreement to GeocacheUK's download pages, and Elias has referred it to their legal guy to see whether this is acceptable.

 

Since then, I've not heard back, so I guess the chances of getting the pages back up this year are slim. But I've written the program to load Groundspeak XML files into my database, so we should be back in business within hours of Elias giving us the go-ahead and switching on our XML feed.

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paul.blitz

+paul.blitz

Posted
Posted

quote:
. On 13th December, I got an email from Elias indicating that he was working on an XML feed of the UK cache data

 

Am I right is saying that what you'll end up with is a more efficient way of getting the data... ie rather than "scraping" it of a large number of pages, the data will come in a more "raw", but more efficient form?

 

If so, sounds better for everyone, and it means that GC.COM can be happy that they are "controlling" the data.

 

By the way, sorry to throw a spanner into the works, but have you considered the effects of the Data Protection Act? Whilst you don't *control* the source of the data, you *are* processing it, and it *does* contain references to "living people"...

 

Paul

 

Team Blitz

 

No, I gave YOU the spare batteries....

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Teasel

+Teasel

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Team Blitz:

Am I right is saying that what you'll end up with is a more efficient way of getting the data... ie rather than "scraping" it of a large number of pages, the data will come in a more "raw", but more efficient form?

 

Exactly. It will hopefully therefore remove a few headaches, such as archived caches. So what I lose in flexibility, we gain in robustness. Also, it means that I can get a full dump of all the caches every day, rather than just trying to guess at which ones have been logged since the last scrape.

 

quote:
By the way, sorry to throw a spanner into the works, but have you considered the effects of the Data Protection Act? Whilst you don't *control* the source of the data, you *are* processing it, and it *does* contain references to "living people"...

 

IANAL, but I am confident that the DPA 1998 does not apply to this data. The Act concerns the processing of personal data, defined as data "which relate to a living individual who can be identified from those data or from those data and other information which is in the possession of, or is likely to come into the possession of, the data controller."

 

Using available data, I am not able to identify an individual using data available to me. Nor am I able to identify those data which relate to a named individual. (I would therefore be unable to provide subject access to the data.)

 

Nor, indeed, do all usernames relate to an individual and it is not possible, using available data, to determine which do and which do not.

 

Is Team Blitz a person, or a group; I have no way of telling. If Margaret Blitz from Suffolk sent me a tenner and demanded access to all data I hold on Team Blitz, should I comply with her request?

 

Only if geocaching.com were to disclose the identity of geocachers would I have to register my current database.

 

Now, the question is, what if I allowed people to enter their home coordinates and/or email address to access extra features (eg to be emailed when TheCat's fox came within 50miles of their home on a foxhunt). Does an email address, or location of a person's house / tower block, enable personal identification under the terms of the Act?

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MCL

MCL

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Teasel:

Does an email address, or location of a person's house / tower block, enable personal identification under the terms of the Act?

 

Only if a person's name is connected with the data. Just an email address on its own is OK. Building coordinates are also not oersonal, unless the name of the person is stored linked with it. Once that happens, the data becomes personal data about that person, and yes it falls under the Act.

 

No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced....

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jeremyp

+jeremyp

Posted
Posted

1. Mark: can I suggest you start a new thread to report on gcuk.com progress because this one is now getting very long and difficult to trawl through to find useful info in.

 

2. I did some research on the DPA to see what my responsibilities were for the trigpoint site and another unrelated site that I am developing. It seems that, as long as the data is for a non-commercial purpose (e.g. a hobbyist site), the owner of the site is pretty much exempt from registering under the DPA. So, for instance, if I choose to hold e-mail or home coordinate info in my database, as trigpoint hunting is a "hobby", I'm OK until I give the info to a spammer.

Actually, I did not do any research on my responsibilities wrt not publishing personal info, mainly because I assumed it would be severely wrong and stupid to publish it without the owners permission.

 

-------

jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

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naffita

+naffita

Posted
Posted

Have you seen this thread ? Could this be an answer to the problem or is it too big a job? It seems that this site is at least a semi official stats page. I have no programming skills so I don't know if it is possible to incorporate the two sites, or even if the 'inside corner' site is acting with permission.

 

naffita

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The Hornet

+The Hornet

Posted
Posted

I've already e-mailed GC about this web site and asked why this is allowed while G:UK stats are not. I'm awaiting a reply from Jeremy/Elias or whoever.

 

I hope and expect a positive outcome as Mark/Teasel have been in communication with the powers that be. This is the correct way to do things - talk and agree, don't just take.

 

_________________________________________________________

 

It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do.

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SimonG

+SimonG

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by The Hornet:

I've already e-mailed GC about this web site and asked why this is allowed while G:UK stats are not.

As I understand it, no one ever said the G:UK stats weren't allowed - Jeremy just said he wasn't too happy about people scraping his site, so G:UK (rightly) took down their stats and opened a dialogue with GC to arrange a better system. If Mark had decided to ignore Jeremy's wishes and keep doing what he was doing, I don't think Jeremy would have stopped him - though he wouldn't have been very happy. He's probably not very happy about insidecorner.com either.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dzm Agslpewjp Mum L gmjsf j zdlpm dz egm sddi.

"Wqwwt, lp egje pzdo?"

"Zd, le'p cqpe sjlz fmjs."

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Postie

+Postie

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Bill D:

Two posters have mentioned http://www.insidecorner.com. The stats there don't seem to be very accurate, even though they're supposedly updated every day. They say I've found four caches, the last being 6th October, and haven't hidden any - in fact I've found 14, the last being 16th November, and I've hidden one.

 

I have just been to there site and they have my caches up to date (which geocacheuk never did!)

 

(Every one needs a bigger letterbox!)

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Bill D (wwh)

+Bill D (wwh)

Posted
Posted

Postie wrote:

quote:
Originally posted by Bill D:

Two posters have mentioned http://www.insidecorner.com. The stats there don't seem to be very accurate, even though they're supposedly updated every day. They say I've found four caches, the last being 6th October, and haven't hidden any - in fact I've found 14, the last being 16th November, and I've hidden one.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

endquote

 

 

I have just been to there site and they have my caches up to date (which geocacheuk never did!)

 

That's strange - I've looked again and I'm listed twice, once under my user name and once under my display name, and the user name stats are correct.

 

I take it back!

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