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The Plot Thickens


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It seem that most people on this forum have the impression that the major flame war with TMA started as a result of a single ill-advised post that was replied to somewhat abruptly by Mr. FourWinds.

 

Now the Webmaster of TMA has posted more of the facts of the matter.

Quote:

On Tuesday, NightcacherDan posted a couple of thinly-veiled ads for buckscaching.co.uk, including their logo in the post. I deleted these from the posts, but left in what little substance remained. I hoped he'd get the message that such posts weren't welcomed.

 

He didn't.

 

At 7:30am on Wednesday morning I logged on to the MA to see 50+ posts doing exactly the same thing. Among these posts, to pad out the adverts, were 18th century churches, crop circles and some photos he clearly didn't have permission to use (i.e. crediting Bucks C.C. isn't quite the same as getting permission).

[unquote]

and........

I think in this situation, the sentiment of F**K RIGHT OFF was entirely justified, even aside from the potential site damage that we were concerned about. And it's a sentiment I'd personally like to extend to all the abusive/defensive geocachers who have felt particularly hard-done-by in this thread. If the reaction you got here upset you then maybe you should be ticking off the spammers you have within your ranks, and not forcing your opinions or "sports" on other communities.

 

I've read (most of) the posts in this thread, and many over at geocaching.com too. Aside from my personal concerns about this subject (far better articulated by others in this thread), I have a problem with the way the Geocachers think we've treated them, without understanding what they did to our community first.

 

Christ that sounds picky, but there you go. The MA was awash with geocaching-promoting-bollocks first thing on Wednesday morning, and I nearly missed my train trying to get rid of it all.

[unquote]

 

So it looks like there was a little more to it than first met the eye.

 

I get the impression over at TMA that they are still disgruntled about a couple of things.

 

1) That Dan & Pid didn't have their bollox kicked hard enough over here.

 

2) That their views haven't resulted in new rules being set over here.

 

As far as 1) is concerned, hopefully D&P HAVE learned a major lesson. They have to learn to get out of their "look at me I'm a geocacher" mode.

 

and 2) As far as I can tell, there have been concessions here. Some caches have been withdrawn prior to re-location, and I'm sure that new caches will be well vetted to make sure that they are not placed in inappropriate places.

 

But away from the immediate vicinity of major monuments, geocaching will continue. One small well hidden box is a drop in the ocean compared with the millions of tonnes of real litter that blights our countryside.

 

Hopefully everyone is a little wiser now. (Particularly Dan & Pid)

 

TH

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quote:

Quote:

 

At 7:30am on Wednesday morning I logged on to the MA to see 50+ posts doing exactly the same thing.

 


 

If this is correct then they had every right to be pissed off.

 

Could I make a suggestion... that we actively try to stay OUT of the public limelight, at least for a little while. And that includes radio and television programs and interviews with unsympathetic or ill informed presenters.

 

Pooter had it absolutely bang on when he said "My great delight in Geocaching is the thought that we walk silently among the non-Geocaching public". It's going to be quite a while before the current waves have died down to ripples. Please... lets not chuck any more rocks, sacred or otherwise, into the proverbial pond.

 

Just my opinion

 

John

Wild Tupperware Hunter

 

[This message was edited by Pharisee on January 24, 2003 at 04:18 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Pharisee:

quote:

Quote:

 

At 7:30am on Wednesday morning I logged on to the MA to see 50+ posts doing exactly the same thing.

 


 

If this is correct then they had every right to be pissed off.

 

John

Wild Tupperware Hunter

 

[This message was edited by Pharisee on January 24, 2003 at 04:18 AM.]


 

I have to agree with your choice of words, Seems we only got half a story on the truth of what really was put onto the MA site They had a good right to get annoyed.

I have now seen this in a different light.

Nige

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I just read the full post on the MA site. From a moderators point of view coming on to discover that volume of spam I, or Tim probably would have done the same.

 

However as has been said, I suspect Dan and Pid have learned a massive lesson from this, and it is time to move on.

 

Although the discussion does seem to be rolling on over there, the discussion has moved on to 'the only person to be banned from the UK Geocaching site' which has produced some interesting responses to say the least!

 

Richard

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Hmmm. They have a moderator who edits posts without explaining what he is editing out and why..

 

..We had that happen on here too, and the moderator concerned is no longer a moderator. I wonder if the TMA chaps might like to read our relevant thread?

 

I am not excusing what Dan did. They can't excuse what their moderator did. Face it, it was bad call by both of them. icon_redface.gif

 

I am being totally even handed here. When it was our former moderator, I said exactly the same thing then as I say to TMA's one now: If you are gonna edit a post, at least explain why you did it. Otherwise, it can be your downfall....

 

icon_wink.gif

 

No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced....

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Not true, simply not true. The page has an option to add Sites of personal interest and so I did by adding The Egyptian Well in Hartwell, St.Osyths Well in Bierton and the now ruined St.Marys Church in Stoke Mandeville. On the site some of the residents are annoyed I posted a church but this was because it states on the input page that churches/newer locations are not suitable except in the occasion you think people would enjoy the site and its not to be missed which I thought was exactly that! I added good information about these sites in the same style as many other postings on the MA, added Folklore under the heading folklore! Added many of my own pictures in the same style as many other sites on the page! Then on these pages I added a link saying along the lines of 'Hidden treasure can also be found at this location, for more information visit...blah blah blah' I added this link because I thought It would be apreciated as it says to add your links. I then also added info and Pics on the whiteleaf cross page and West Wycombe pages. Good information & Pics which could be enjoyed by many. To these 2 pages I also added the same link in the Links section. On 2 of my self made pages I posted the link in the news section which was only because I hadn't noticed the link section! So in total out of my stated 50 posts, 6 were links to geocaching pages (All on independant pages and pointing directly to the location in question) and 44 we added to enhance the site (Well actually 50 were added to enhnce the site thats what is doing my head in!). They took me ages to add and were very informal. I didn't realise this page was so bloomin serious and hangs people who make the mistake of thinking they are people having fun and are welcoming. Note to the MA site - send 'offenders' an email asking them politely to remove unwanted stuff. I would have gladly done this, I am a nice person not a trouble maker, you are currently making me trouble and making my life a mysery! and why, because you dont understand our hobby and are not willing to try. icon_mad.gif

 

Its just a hunt for a lunch box, why be so serious!?! badgerslayer.gif

 

Dan Wilson - www.Buckscaching.co.uk

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quote:
Originally posted by MCL:

I am not excusing what Dan did. They can't excuse what their moderator did. Face it, it was bad call by both of them. icon_redface.gif


 

Indeed, but like all of the moderators here, we all have our bad days when we screw up and make bad calls. He did post a rather terse explanation on Wednesday morning, and a fuller explanation now.

 

I really think that we should move on, I don't think there is any point in picking over who did what to whom and when, or posting critiques of the moderation style on the MA site. What is important is we accept that, as with any flame war, there were misunderstandings on both sides, and people on both sides did things they shouldn't. Endless analysis is not going to change that, except to, as Dan's post above is evidence of, continue with the mud slinging, and the upset that causes.

 

I see that the e-mail threats have been highlighted and are being addressed also, and that a number of the people involved have apologised.

 

Whilst there is much we can learn from each other in the two communities, and I welcome any discussions along those lines, I do think it is time to let the criticism and blame postings stop here and to move on. The moderator from MA has stated his position, and Dan has now stated his, let that be the end of it.

 

Richard

 

[This message was edited by Richard & Beth on January 24, 2003 at 06:04 AM.]

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This is proposterous!!!!!!!

 

I myself added one post to the forums asking them to check it out. 50 Posts is just slightly an exaggeration. I dont care who these people are this isnt on.

 

Let it lie.

 

Pid

 

--------------------------------------------------------

One ring to rule them all, One ring to find them, One ring to bring them all and in the Darkness bind them!

 

www.buckscaching.co.uk

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Context is everything, Dan.

 

You stormed in and posted what you felt like posting. You didn't look around to see what had previously been posted by others, or stop for one minute to appreciate what the site is actually about. The MA has been running for night on 3 years (in various shapes and forms) and you just saw the colours & the cool gizmo (map browser) and started flooding the place.

 

I left in your posts that weren't geocaching-centric, because anything that adds value/info to the MA is fine.

 

If I hadn't deleted your account on Wednesday, how much geocaching-centric stuff would you have posted on there by now?

 

More haste would have revealed that you don't go arround the MA adding what you feel like, though yes, the odd (as in occasional) curiosity is fine. What did you add that wasn't an odd curiosity? Nowt. What did you add that wasn't related to geocaching? Nowt.

 

Maybe we should have clearer guidelines for posting, but it's been up for nigh on 3 years and we've not had this happen before.

 

quote:
Not true, simply not true. The page has an option to add Sites of personal interest and so I did by adding The Egyptian Well in Hartwell, St.Osyths Well in Bierton and the now ruined St.Marys Church in Stoke Mandeville. On the site some of the residents are annoyed I posted a church but this was because it states on the input page that churches/newer locations are not suitable except in the occasion you think people would enjoy the site and its not to be missed which I thought was exactly that!

 

From the site guide

Spare us the Norman Church

The Modern Antiquarian is primarily concerned with megalithic sites and the ancient i.e. prehistoric landscape. While there is no harm in adding the odd curiosity that shouldn't be missed while being in the area, please bear in mind the main concerns of the site.

 

quote:
I added good information about these sites in the same style as many other postings on the MA, added Folklore under the heading folklore! Added many of my own pictures in the same style as many other sites on the page!

 

And most of your pictures (that are of sites of relevance) are still there. But what of the other pictures, Dan? The ones owned by Bucks C.C.?

Crop circles?

 

quote:
Then on these pages I added a link saying along the lines of 'Hidden treasure can also be found at this location, for more information visit...blah blah blah' I added this link because I thought It would be apreciated as it says to add your links.

 

As I've said, maybe we need clearer guidelines, maybe we need an FAQ on submissions. It does, however, say, in the same part of the page

(http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site_guide.php#submission_guidelines )

 

don't use the weblog to (excessively) advertise your own website, or to sell walking boots, Callanish tea-towels etc.

 

Now, I appreciate this is talking specifically about weblog posts (because we had to deal with an advertorial in there recently), but maybe you get the general idea. All the guidelines will have to amended following this, though.

 

quote:
I then also added info and Pics on the whiteleaf cross page and West Wycombe pages. Good information & Pics which could be enjoyed by many.

 

2 of the pics weren't yours.

Your information on Whiteleaf is still there:

http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/browse.php?site_id=553#folklore

as is the info on West Wycombe

http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/browse.php?site_id=548#fieldnotes

 

quote:
To these 2 pages I also added the same link in the Links section.

 

Any information you added, besides geocaching links, was padding. You didn't add any information for sites that didn't have geocaching links. Did you notice that?

 

A bit suspect, see.

 

Now, I know you didn't mean any great harm, but a flurry of postings like that does not go unnoticed. You clearly hadn't joined to add anything of great megalithic value to the site, and the "fancy meeting you here" exchange between you & Pid was the last straw, particularly as I had very little time in which to act. So I deleted all the offending posts and suspended your accounts.

 

My apologies for this seemingly rash behaviour, it was simply a question of time and priorities.

 

quote:
Note to the MA site - send 'offenders' an email asking them politely to remove unwanted stuff. I would have gladly done this, I am a nice person not a trouble maker.

 

I appreciate that, Dan. But you can't be too careful with spammers. If I had had time on my hands I would have emailed you. But I was going to be away from the MA for about 14 hours and didn't want to come back to find several hundred geocaching-related posts.

 

quote:
and why, because you dont understand our hobby and are not willing to try.

 

Like most people, we are not interested in having something forced down our throats, Dan. Geocaching got a very bad introduction on the Modern Antiquarian, partly because of your spamming, and partly because of the first few descriptions we received of the sport.

 

Another post on this thread states:

 

quote:
They can't excuse what their moderator did.

 

Actually I can. Cause I'm the webmaster & a moderator too. And you'll rarely find me on a power-trip, but here we are. Take a picture. icon_smile.gif

 

quote:
If you are gonna edit a post, at least explain why you did it. Otherwise, it can be your downfall....

 

It states quite clearly in the site guidelines that posts may be edited or removed. If we edit or remove something by a regular user then we usually drop them a line explaining, or preceding, our actions.

 

Spammers get knee-jerk reactions, though.

 

Holy McGrail

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1) There was no spamming - all input was ment to be constructive and you didnt like it, fair enough, have some manners and tell me courtiously.

 

2) There was no suprise meeting between me and pid? This is simply not true? I introduced him to the site, we both posted on a forum, why is that a suprise meeting?

 

3) Your site has an option of adding the most relevant subject to a site such as holy wells which St.Osyths is. Dinton Folly is also a castle/fort which although not old is again a place you wouldn't want to miss as stated on the logging page, I suggest you reword it as it is very easily misconstrewed.

 

4) You seem to have a problem with someone who simply went to a site to get some information about something which very much interests him. Why, because he suggested hunting for a lunchbox. Get over it. I apologised for the linking to this site, what else do you want, blood? actually, yes you probably do.

 

5) This is from me not the geocaching community so stop taking it out on them.

 

6) Stop causing troble. you simply are trouble makers who wont let this be. icon_mad.gif

 

Its just a hunt for a lunch box, why be so serious!?! badgerslayer.gif

 

Dan Wilson - www.Buckscaching.co.uk

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Thank you Holy McGrail for visiting us and putting your point of view.

 

I know that Dan and Pid have learned a valuable lesson. I also would like to re-iterate the apology I made to you by email (which remains unanswered, but it is true it did not request one).

 

I guess that when you dig far enough or lurk for long enough, your site does make it's target audience clear. but this is rather a 'dawning' process than an 'Aha! I know what this site is about' experience. I think I am prepared to believe that in their naievety, Dan and Pid continued blindly where they should not have gone. I know they have apologised publicly for that.

 

In this community we find that most who transgress do not need to be ostracised too harshly, in fact they do as Dan & Pid did, and just throw the towell in and leave. Dan & Pid have, as I'm sure you know been invited to stay because it is believed that the lesson is well learned.

 

Cachers and Admin in Geocaching.com have offered to work with Mod Ant to try to establish some compromise whereby we can both co-exist in harmony and we would like to progress this further. I hope that you would like to do so too.

 

I know that if asked to do so Geocachers will wait for the Admins of both sites to sort things out.

 

Is it possible that the members of the Mod Ant site will do the same ?

 

If so, can I suggest that we both post a note on our relative forums to the efferct we are working on resolving the differences and please sit tight taking no further actions whilst we do so. This would I hope stop all the posts droning on and on on both of them.

 

Tim & June

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Below is a reply I recieved from Holy McGrail following my post above.

 

quote:

 

Hi Tim (& June?),

 

I feel that the "differences" between the 2 communities will never be resolved, but that doesn't mean we can't communicate like adults. I still have a real problem with the whole notion of leaving non-biodegradable materials lying around the countryside. (This argument is best surmised by Grufty Jim's post here: http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/forum.php?thread=8541&message=79146 )

 

Responsibility is absolutely key to the vast majority of contributors on the Modern Antiquarian site (and the rest of Head Heritage, too). We have a forum called U-Know! which deals with ethical & environmental issues, conservation and direct action. As there is a lot of cross-over from the Mod Ant & U-Know, politically at least, it's very unlikely that Geocaching will ever be seen in a favourable light there (unless you decided to go 100% for

virtual caching).

 

But you don't need our approval and I don't think we need to co-exist comfortably.

 

I don't think there is a need for me/us to post anything saying we're working out our differences, because I don't see how we can. Our forum users are entitled to voice their opinions, as are yours. Right now they're likely to differ wildly. Us posting something up would just be incredibly

patronising.

 

I don't want to post any more on the 'Plot Thickens' thread, though feel free to quote me (in context). Dan knows what he did and I don't need to keep re-iterating the examples. I don't think what he did was a particularly

heinous crime either and he shouldn't feel *TOO* bad about it (clearly a sensitive young fellow!), but I think my response to it (i.e. his banning) was justified. And that's about it, really. It's really a separate subject from how users of the Modern Antiquarian feel about the Geocachers, and we ain't gonna solve that one in a hurry (unless you announce a 100% virtual caching policy!).

 

But, I must thank you for trying to diffuse the situation and your general handling of it. We have learnt a lot from this. The Modern Antiquarian site guidelines will be re-written with this incident in mind. And though I seriously doubt it would have stopped it happening in the first place, it might have given us clearer justification the removal of posts & the banning of users. I certainly didn't spend all that time building the Modern Antiquarian site just so I could freak out the odd passer-by!

 

Kind regards,

 

Holy McGrail.

 


 

I guess that's the end of it, once and for all.

 

Happy caching,

A very worn out Tim & June

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I think the time has arrived for us to stop posting on the Mod Ant forums in defense of our pastime.

 

I think there is nothing more to be achieved with discussing the affair further and perhaps we should get on with what we do best, discuss and hunt boxes.

 

I have also spoken to representatives of The Pagan Federation and a number of Druids who insist that Mod Ant is out of order.

 

Game on

 

We will not lock this thread but would appreciate no nore posts. Thanks.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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Just wondered the true defination of the word SPAM and SPAMMING...

 

I always thought it was EMails only? in what context was Dan and mine deed seen as spamming? I am curious not because I want to argue or anything just because I dont understand why it is spamming....if that makes sense.

 

Someone please email me the answer rather than reply. Cheers

 

Pid

 

--------------------------------------------------------

One ring to rule them all, One ring to find them, One ring to bring them all and in the Darkness bind them!

 

www.buckscaching.co.uk

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Pid,

 

I seem to recall that spamming generally refers to any unsolicited commercial posting (either email, forum post, or otherwise) on the 'net.

 

Commercial would probably also mean advertising a non-profit personal site, or, in this case, Geocaching.

 

You get it a lot on Usenet boards, and I know I've personally given up on more than one email address as it's become such a huge problem.

 

You would probably start to see it more and more on chat rooms too, as "Bots" (automated messages) become more common.

 

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

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quote:
Originally posted by Kouros:

Pid,

 

I seem to recall that spamming generally refers to any unsolicited commercial posting (either email, forum post, or otherwise) on the 'net.


 

Expand that from commercial to "unwanted".

 

Spamming originally meant the e-mail equivalent of junk snail mail. For those interested, the origin of the term is the Monty Python Spam sketch. However, its meaning has now evolved slightly to include any inappropriate messages/postings e.g. "please stop spamming the forums with new cache adverts" icon_smile.gif

 

-------

jeremyp

The second ten million caches were the worst too.

http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching

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Be very careful out there.

The TMA has its fair share of loopy followers. This flame war may lead to a real war.

On their board there is more than one mention of violence.

On our board there was none.

We are not as passionate about having our lunchboxes out there as they are about not having them there.

As one who has received 22 stitches from an attack over a right to be there issue. (I won’t go into details) but the culprit was fined £650 and I was awarded £2000 damages.

An acquaintance of mine was threatened by a person with a shotgun on a public footpath over access rights he is 67 years old.

Another acquaintance had his mountain bike trampled on by a woman on a horse on a public bridleway.

These were not members of the TMA as far as I know, but people with a passion none the less.

I have no doubt in my mind that the lunatic fringe now that they are aware of us will go out of their way to cause agro.

A can of worms has been opened.

 

It's only a foot.

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quote:
Originally posted by The Spokes:

 

Be very careful out there.

The TMA has its fair share of loopy followers. This flame war may lead to a real war.

On their board there is more than one mention of violence.

On our board there was none.

We are not as passionate about having our lunchboxes out there as they are about not having them there.

As one who has received 22 stitches from an attack over a right to be there issue. (I won’t go into details) but the culprit was fined £650 and I was awarded £2000 damages.

An acquaintance of mine was threatened by a person with a shotgun on a public footpath over access rights he is 67 years old.

Another acquaintance had his mountain bike trampled on by a woman on a horse on a public bridleway.

These were not members of the TMA as far as I know, but people with a passion none the less.

I have no doubt in my mind that the lunatic fringe now that they are aware of us will go out of their way to cause agro.

A can of worms has been opened.


 

Wow ! is it just bad luck that you and your aquaintances have been subjected to such horrors ?

 

At the time of writing, there are 1,492 UK caches and a total of 14,574 logs to those caches since June 2000.

 

Not once have I heard of any attacks on anyone in that time. True to say that Dan & Pid were confronted by gun toting poachers, but that was very late at night (if I remember correctly, after 11:00pm), and perhaps not much of a surprise. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

In 334 caches June and I have not encountered even unpleasantness. I guess you are more at risk from road rage or shopping trolley rage that caching rage.

 

Are you and your aquaintances unlucky, or something else ?

 

On the other hand, I take it that you and your aquaintances were not geocaching. Otherwise would you elucidate please.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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I think it must depend on your location and what your activity is. Like Tim and June I have never experienced anything like those incidents described above, but my father-in-law is an active member of the Ramblers and has met some very "strong-willed" landowners in the course of establishing his right to walk public footpaths in Cornwall.

 

Rich

mobilis in mobili

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My Mother-in-law keeps calling our little hobby "Geocoshing". Perhaps this is what she was reffering to? :-) Or perhaps she just thinks we hunt small white platsic tubs and beat them senseless with a handheld GPS....

 

Martin

 

[This message was edited by Freak Enterprises on January 30, 2003 at 07:28 AM.]

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Missed the point or did not read fully or understand the post.

The point is that while the TMA and other people are blissfully unaware of plastic boxes being hidden there is little danger of annoying anyone. Now that the TMA are aware of it the PASSIONATE element (ref posts on their board) should not be taken lightly.

I think one post mentioned that you would not get a signal from a personal orifice as that’s where the GPS would be put.

Take a look at Pagan Girls posts. Would you honestly let her see you looking for a lunchbox.

Well call me chicken (cluck) but if I see a huge hairy female with tattoos charging at me Im off.

keith.

 

It's only a foot.

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I really had hoped, a and thought, that this whole episode had died a death. Even the Mod Ant's have got better things to talk about, and good for them.

 

Yes there was a threat made to insert a GPS where a GPS shouldn't go, and the prepertrator has apologised, problem resolved.

 

On the Mod Ants forum, apologies have been offered on both sides, there have been Mod Ants join these forums in a pleasant, friendly and co-operative manner. One post there says "You can be certain that no one here will go looking for your caches, certainly not with the intention of destroying them. I think the general consensus would be that we have more interesting things to go hunting for."

 

On this forum the code of conduct is more stringent and if it were not, I guess there would have been many empty threats made toward the Mod Ants who were rightfully upset at their facilities being (albeit unintentionally) abused.

 

To answer your question :

 

quote:
Originally posted by The Spokes:

quote:
There must be something more to this !

and

quote:
Wow ! is it just bad luck that you and your aquaintances have been subjected to such horrors ?

whats that supposed to mean?


 

Exactly what it says, over 14000 cache logs no incidents, but you and your associates have had the misfortune to be victim of three. Perhaps it's about location, attitude, weather, or dog doo doo, who knows !

 

Earlier I said I would not lock this thread but suggested that there is little to be gained from keeping on going over the same old ground.

 

It's dead now, please let it rest.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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I got an e mail from someone. They were going to post it but did not. I got an email instead.

was going to post it but changed my mind.

I don't know what to do about it. Its not very nice about the people on this board.

The Spokes.

 

[This message was edited by The Spokes on January 30, 2003 at 12:07 PM.]

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I received an email of complaint from Spokes who said :

 

"As it stands you have branded me a thug."

 

and

 

"An apology would be nice to me and my family also to the people of Gateshead its not that bad."

 

Consider that done. There was no intention to brand anybody with anything and I'm sorry it caused offence.

 

However,

 

Now it's your turn to brand me as a thug if you wish :

 

When my son was 14 he was beaten up in a Winchester park by an adult.

 

My neighbour was recently mugged in broad daylight whilst walking along Winchester High Street.

 

My daughter has had 2 cars broken into (perpetrators of the second have been caught).

 

My son has had 2 cycles stolen (one was recovered a wreck).

 

At 4:00am a few years ago we were awoken by noises only to find two of the local "scumbags" trying to break into our house (they didn't make it). As it turns out, one of these was the father of the boy who stole the cycle which was recovered and this was a revenge attack.

 

Oh! June and I have both been attacked by crazed stinging nettles, thorns and gorse bushes whilst caching.

 

But as I said, I apologie to Spokes, his family and those of Gateshead for causing them undue concern and pain.

 

Tim (of Tim & June)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

 

[This message was edited by Tim & June on February 02, 2003 at 11:19 PM.]

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Now hear this.... If I can't have 'flaming' then Tim and June can't have 'scrotes'

 

The reference to the undercarriage of the human male pudenda is surely not for family viewing?

 

icon_razz.gif

 

No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced....

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quote:
Originally posted by MCL:

Now hear this.... If I can't have 'flaming' then Tim and June can't have 'scrotes'

 

The reference to the undercarriage of the human male pudenda is surely not for family viewing?

 

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No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced....


 

Point taken, and agreed. I have changed it to "scumbags" but I think the first term more applicable.

 

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Tim & June (Winchester)

 

See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! icon_smile.gif

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Whoa,

Whoa and,

Thrice Whoa (pun intended)

 

Please put the cuffs on now, take me away, I can't take anymore.

 

I agree with everyone, you are all right. I'm sorry!

 

I just want to get on with my job of designing town by-passes that connect AONBs with SSSIs with out all the hassle

 

The above was only a joke and I am not responsible for anything that I may have said but I am sorry, and even though I think it was your fault I won't say so again.

 

PLEASE lock the thread

 

Lance

It's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.

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