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[Question] Adequate GPS usage


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I have a question about Adequate GPS usage - https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=128&pgid=846

It says:

"Each geocache published on Geocaching.com must include GPS usage for geocachers who look for that cache.

Adequate GPS usage
The cache page must provide coordinates of a specific object or location that is needed to find the cache. In most cases, this specific object is the cache container. However, it could also be another object is needed to find the final container or the next stage.
"

 

The way my cache is supposed to end is as follows (being very vague): cachers find an online webpage which states a GPS location of a small building which is very visibly connected to a similar structure cca 50meters away. The final container is NOT at the coordinates listed on the webpage but rather at the connected structure. The cachers will be instructed NOT to look for the final container at the GPS location they found on the webpage but rather at the connected structure.

 

Is my cache ending compliant with the Adequate GPS usage rule?

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Posted (edited)

I think that would fit what is considered to be  a multicache - coordinates lead to one stage where info is gathered to find subsequent or final stages.  Are you planning to have such info at the first stage or rather say here are the coordinates but look elsewhere? Why not use coordinates where the cache is located? By visibly connected do you mean simply you can see it from where the coordinated indicate?

What webpage are you referring to,  Geocaching.com?

Edited by Jayeffel
spelling
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jayeffel said:

I think that would fit what is considered to be  a multicache - coordinates lead to one stage where info is gathered to find subsequent or final stages.  Are you planning to have such info at the first stage or rather say here are the coordinates but look elsewhere? Why not use coordinates where the cache is located? By visibly connected do you mean simply you can see it from where the coordinated indicate?

What webpage are you referring to,  Geocaching.com?

The idea is not to have it as multicache, but mystery. There is no need to physically go to the location listed on the webpage. You could do all your research online (eg google maps). You can, obviously.

I wouldn't like to give the exact coordinates because it would break the immersion. Also, having it like I described would add another level to the cache.

I'm referring to a non geocaching.com page.

 

58 minutes ago, Bear and Ragged said:

What type of cache?

Mystery or Letterbox might be accepted.

 

Best answer is from your Reviewer... (Or GS if you disagree with your Reviewer and take it to Appeals)

Mystery.

Re appeals, didn't know you could do that. That's definitely something to keep in mind.

Edited by Semínko
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2 hours ago, Semínko said:

I have a question about Adequate GPS usage - https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=128&pgid=846

It says:

"Each geocache published on Geocaching.com must include GPS usage for geocachers who look for that cache.

Adequate GPS usage
The cache page must provide coordinates of a specific object or location that is needed to find the cache. In most cases, this specific object is the cache container. However, it could also be another object is needed to find the final container or the next stage.
"

 

The way my cache is supposed to end is as follows (being very vague): cachers find an online webpage which states a GPS location of a small building which is very visibly connected to a similar structure cca 50meters away. The final container is NOT at the coordinates listed on the webpage but rather at the connected structure. The cachers will be instructed NOT to look for the final container at the GPS location they found on the webpage but rather at the connected structure.

 

Is my cache ending compliant with the Adequate GPS usage rule?

I am not a volunteer reviewer or a lackey, and I don't even play one on TV, but here's my completely irrelevant opinion anyway.

 

In general, providing the coordinates of a building or the entrance of a building is not considered adequate GPS usage. For example, library caches and similar indoor caches cannot count the coordinates of the building entrance as adequate GPS usage.

 

You might be able to argue that your "small building" is small enough to be an exception. For example, some caches are hidden in bus shelters, and many of them are smaller than the 3m accuracy of consumer GPS devices in ideal circumstances. But you haven't made the case here, as far as I can see.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, niraD said:

I am not a volunteer reviewer or a lackey, and I don't even play one on TV, but here's my completely irrelevant opinion anyway.

 

In general, providing the coordinates of a building or the entrance of a building is not considered adequate GPS usage. For example, library caches and similar indoor caches cannot count the coordinates of the building entrance as adequate GPS usage.

 

You might be able to argue that your "small building" is small enough to be an exception. For example, some caches are hidden in bus shelters, and many of them are smaller than the 3m accuracy of consumer GPS devices in ideal circumstances. But you haven't made the case here, as far as I can see.

The building the coords will point to is like 2x2 meters. In the same clue it will be found that the cache is on the other side of the connection. The other side of the connection, where the cache is, is like 0.5x0.5 meters. So it's impossible imo to make a mistake and look where the cache is not.

 

EDIT: good point regarding that! I will specify that in the reviewer note. Thanks

Edited by Semínko
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I'm pretty sure getting from the coordinates to the container needs to be more than "while standing at the coordinates you will see another building; go look on the back of that building."

 

You need to use information on the first building to calculate coordinates or project coordinates that will take you to the second location.

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7 minutes ago, JL_HSTRE said:

I'm pretty sure getting from the coordinates to the container needs to be more than "while standing at the coordinates you will see another building; go look on the back of that building."

 

You need to use information on the first building to calculate coordinates or project coordinates that will take you to the second location.

That is a shame. Because it fits into my narrative like a glove.

 

Oh well, to be on the safe side, it's time to think about contingency plans.

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4 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

"while standing at the coordinates you will see another building; go look on the back of that building."

Isn't something like this allowed for Letterbox caches? Letterboxes can use clues to guide players to the cache container.

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1 hour ago, Sottiwotti said:

Isn't something like this allowed for Letterbox caches? Letterboxes can use clues to guide players to the cache container.

Every Geocache listed by Groundspeak must have at least one stage, where use of GPS is mandatory. There is no exception for type Letterbox Hybrid. However, this one stage doesn't have to be the final one.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Sottiwotti said:

Isn't something like this allowed for Letterbox caches? Letterboxes can use clues to guide players to the cache container.

 

9 hours ago, baer2006 said:

Every Geocache listed by Groundspeak must have at least one stage, where use of GPS is mandatory. There is no exception for type Letterbox Hybrid.

 

Many Letterbox Hybrid caches have two separate ways to solve where the cache is. Coordinates and clues. I would like to modify slightly your statement:

 

"Every Geocache listed by Groundspeak must have at least one stage, where use of GPS is possible."

 

For example, you can publish a traditional cache with coordinates and a photo that spoils the hide totally.  The player can use coordinates or use the photo only.

Example: https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC3496C_captain-obvious

 

 

Edited by arisoft
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3 hours ago, arisoft said:

Many Letterbox Hybrid caches have two separate ways to solve where the cache is. Coordinates and clues.

Maybe in your community. I know exactly zero LBHs which offer these two ways, and only a few grandfathered "clues only" ones.

 

3 hours ago, arisoft said:

I would like to modify slightly your statement:

 

"Every Geocache listed by Groundspeak must have at least one stage, where use of GPS is possible."

 

For example, up can publish a traditional cache with coordinates and a photo that spoils the hide totally.  The plauer can use coordinates or use the photo only.

You're right, I agree to that.

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16 hours ago, baer2006 said:

Every Geocache listed by Groundspeak must have at least one stage, where use of GPS is mandatory. There is no exception for type Letterbox Hybrid. However, this one stage doesn't have to be the final one.

 

The GPS must also be meaningful and the information there for reaching the non-GPS stage precise. (I don't know that exact language is in the Guidelines 

 

A trailhead or the entrance to a building or the side of a building is not meaningful.

 

Offsets and LBH directions I have seen are rather specific in terms of distances. Library caches will usually give you the call number of a faux book.

 

I realize the OP refers to a 2x2 meter building. That's only 6 1/2 feet; calling something that small a "building" seems a stretch; that's about the size of an outhouse. The final location will have to be entered as a hidden waypoint so the Reviewer will see it; do not try to deceive them.

 

In any case, OP has yet to explain why they want to direct seekers in this manner. Why not simply make it a Traditional, unless they are attempting to deliberately provide a soft final location to make the search more difficult by providing a larger than normal GZ? If the OP wants visitors to see something on the side of the larger building at the intermediate coordinates why not simply make a projection (final is N meters bearing D degrees from the posted coordinates)?

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On 5/18/2024 at 11:48 AM, Semínko said:

cachers find an online webpage which states a GPS location of a small building which is very visibly connected to a similar structure cca 50meters away. The final container is NOT at the coordinates listed on the webpage but rather at the connected structure. The cachers will be instructed NOT to look for the final container at the GPS location they found on the webpage but rather at the connected structure.

 

I have done this kind of mystery cache. The bogus is at the one end of a rail and the cache is at the another end of the same rail.

 

The reviewer insisted that finders can see the rail far away and can solve the mystery without using GPS.

I moved the final in the middle of the rail and put coordinates in the another and of the rail.

 

When I asked from many finders, all of them told that they needed GPS to find out that the end of the rail was at the bogus coordinates. I think that reviewer made an error by over analyzing the situation with knowledge not available for a real finder. When using your idea it is best to consult your local reviewer how they see the gps usage in this context.

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