Log deletion for challenge caches

[+arisoft]

On 5/1/2024 at 2:02 AM, Triple_P said:

I know about Additional Logging Requirements. Is posting your qualifications considered a Additional Logging Requirement?

 

I think that you are trying to promote this.

[+barefootjeff]

7 hours ago, Triple_P said:

The beauty about geocaching is that it has something for everyone. If you want extreme adventure, you go after hiking, climbing, caving, mining, rapelling or other big adventurous hides. If you're limited mobility, you can do park and grabs, even if it's not your (your personally) thing, it might be someone else's. Your 7 mile hike, for one find, counts just as much as my light post find in the parking lot. You "earned" your find and put more blood sweat and tears into yours, while I went 5 ft and found my cache. In the books, it's 1 find for you and 1 find for me. Your big adventure doesn't supersede my lpc because it's collectively one find for each. 

 

I'm a balanced cacher, so I go for everything. One day I won't have the gift of mobility and I won't be able to do those big adventure hides, so I'm doing as much now as I can. Once did a 25.2 mile day hike for 1 cache!

 

I've done some pretty outlandish things for just one cache, but for me it's not about getting "one smiley", it's about the whole experience and it can be just as rewarding even if it ends in a DNF or if it's a group hike with friends to a cache I've already found. But if you want to get extreme, there's a challenge cache not far from home that requires 42 finds with a 2/4 D/T rating, but of those you need four from each of four states of Australia plus two from outside Australia. If I get close enough to qualifying that I only need the two overseas ones, I'm contemplating a flight to Auckland just for those. Well maybe I'll throw in a holiday too while I'm there, to celebrate completing the challenge.

[+Triple_P]

2 hours ago, arisoft said:

 

I think that you are trying to promote this.

Trying to promote what?

[+Triple_P]

59 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

I've done some pretty outlandish things for just one cache, but for me it's not about getting "one smiley", it's about the whole experience and it can be just as rewarding even if it ends in a DNF or if it's a group hike with friends to a cache I've already found. But if you want to get extreme, there's a challenge cache not far from home that requires 42 finds with a 2/4 D/T rating, but of those you need four from each of four states of Australia plus two from outside Australia. If I get close enough to qualifying that I only need the two overseas ones, I'm contemplating a flight to Auckland just for those. Well maybe I'll throw in a holiday too while I'm there, to celebrate completing the challenge.

Look there will always be challenges that I'll never qualify for. I enjoy the bigger more adventurous hides, and I have done my far share of them. Maybe it's not up to snuff with what's out there in Australia, but for me, here in the states, I shoot for lonely or remote hides that involve hiking or kayaking or other outdoor adventures. 

 

On the flip side of this is the park and grabs, the power trails, the geo-arts. I go after and find all types of geocaches both small and big. The 25.2 [round trip] day hike I did in West Virginia, had a 6+ year lonely cache at the end of the hike. I found it sitting right in that tree. That filled up my spirit for a long time. I found peace and harmony with mother nature, spent 6+ hours coming and going, and returned grinning from ear to ear. If the hide is missing, then it burns, but it was all about the adventure. 

 

You strike me as the type of person who likes big adventure, and you seem to have your hands full with the biggest and best caches in Australia. I'm not here to play "on up" where I try and one up what you just stated. America has their handful of big adventurous hides as well. Can it compared to what Australia has? I have no clue, since I have no prior substance to compare the two. 

 

Fly me to Australia, host me at your pad, tour me around and I'll give you a better answer lol. 

[+barefootjeff]

7 hours ago, Triple_P said:

You strike me as the type of person who likes big adventure, and you seem to have your hands full with the biggest and best caches in Australia. I'm not here to play "on up" where I try and one up what you just stated. America has their handful of big adventurous hides as well. Can it compared to what Australia has? I have no clue, since I have no prior substance to compare the two. 

 

I'm not trying to play one-up, just saying that, for me, it's the experiences I get from caching rather than the smiley count that's important. Some of the challenge caches I've done have been a double bonus, with awesome qualifying caches followed up with an awesome final for the challenge. But I still get a lot of enjoyment from much more ordinary caches, like the new series of easy traditionals along a lakeside bike path I did a week ago. Really, anything that gets me out of the house for a few hours is generally a fun experience, particularly with all the wet weather we're having now.

[+Goldenwattle]

16 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

there's a challenge cache not far from home that requires 42 finds with a 2/4 D/T rating

GC number ?

[+Deepdiggingmole]

On 4/29/2024 at 8:00 PM, Triple_P said:

I wonder why no proof is necessary in found it logs, what's the point of a challenge cache if proof isn't needed?

Because the checker is there to provide that proof
the guidelines say "the owner can confirm the finder's qualification with the checker" 
no further documentation is required
Many cachers do a copy and paste of the checker output and add that to their log - but they don't have to 
It isn't saying proof isnt needed but all the CO has to do to check is stick the name in the checker and see the result - if it says yes, that is all the proof the CO needs - if it says no then the CO can then challenge the claimant
Pre-moratorium - when you did have to provide a list if there wasn't a checker (there were checkers around prior to that) it would have been quite a chore for the CO to go through the list provided and check to see if indeed that cacher did find those caches etc unless it was a stat thing and the requirements could easily be seen in your profile. 
 

I have seen a couple of challenges post moratorium (so a checker is provided) where the CO has required a list to be added to the log and if not provided, the log would be deleted - this should not happen as a CO can not insist on a) having a list added to the log b) cannot delete the log if the checker shows the cacher has qualified.

Edited May 4 by Deepdiggingmole

[+Deepdiggingmole]

On 4/30/2024 at 3:25 AM, Triple_P said:

The amount of time it takes to run a checker is the same for the person showing their qualifications and the cache owner. All either party has to do is hit the run checker button and it propergates the results. Imagine for a second if your challenge cache had 100 found it logs, and 75 of those found it logs never posted their qualifications. As the CO, you now have to run all 75 of those to make sure that each person actually qualifies. That's so time consuming. If all 75 finders had posted their qualifications, you would never have to run that checker because they already did it for you. 

 

The burden of proof should be on the finder not the CO. 

Though I understand why you are saying this - if a person provides a list in their log how does that prove to the CO that that person has actually qualified 
As has been said it is easy to manipulate a) the output of a checker run b) any list that would satisfy the qualification criteria 

Are you saying that as a CO you would be happy if someone provided a list whether it is genuine or falsified and just by looking at the list you would say - OK cool, they qualify ... even if they don't 
How would you check that the list they have provided is genuine ?

[+barefootjeff]

7 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

23 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

there's a challenge cache not far from home that requires 42 finds with a 2/4 D/T rating

GC number ?

 

GC9MFKJ D2/T4 Explorer Challenge. It was published just over two years ago and so far only has one finder.

.

[+Triple_P]

9 hours ago, Deepdiggingmole said:

Though I understand why you are saying this - if a person provides a list in their log how does that prove to the CO that that person has actually qualified 
As has been said it is easy to manipulate a) the output of a checker run b) any list that would satisfy the qualification criteria 

Are you saying that as a CO you would be happy if someone provided a list whether it is genuine or falsified and just by looking at the list you would say - OK cool, they qualify ... even if they don't 
How would you check that the list they have provided is genuine ?

My post was referring to challenge caches post moratorium. All I want is the finder to post their qualifications from the checker provided. If they don't, as the CO I now have to run X amount of names through the challenge checker. Also, if I'm not a paying member to project-gc.com, I'm limited to 10 queries per day. This means that it would take 7.5 days to run 75 names through the checker to be 100% sure that each person who logged a find is passes the checker. That's time consuming. All it takes is the finder to post their stats for me and it saves me time to do other things. 

[+barefootjeff]

2 minutes ago, Triple_P said:

My post was referring to challenge caches post moratorium. All I want is the finder to post their qualifications from the checker provided. If they don't, as the CO I now have to run X amount of names through the challenge checker. Also, if I'm not a paying member to project-gc.com, I'm limited to 10 queries per day. This means that it would take 7.5 days to run 75 names through the checker to be 100% sure that each person who logged a find is passes the checker. That's time consuming. All it takes is the finder to post their stats for me and it saves me time to do other things. 

 

If you want to be 100% sure that each finder qualifies, you can't rely on them just copying the checker output text because that's so easily faked. It's the same with them actually finding the challenge cache itself; unless you go out and check for a signature in the logbook after each find you can't be 100% sure.

 

I'm also curious where you're getting the 75 finds from, since none of your active challenge caches have anywhere near that number of finds in total, let alone in a short period of time. The most number of finds any of your challenges has had in one day looks to be 5, which is a long way short of 75. Where is the problem you're trying to solve?

[+Goldenwattle]

5 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

GC9MFKJ D2/T4 Explorer Challenge. It was published just over two years ago and so far only has one finder.

.

I fail, as I only have 13 of 42 required. The only bit I pass is "Find at least 2 D2/T4 caches in countries other than Australia." I have two finds.

 

One of those two is my farthest EAST find as well. 

GC22PA5 - Ka Awatea Hou (Te Tairawhiti) (North Island, New Zealand)
S 37° 41.344 E 178° 32.898

[+essap2]

I've been harassed by a few COs in the past about not posting challenge qualifications on post-moratorium challenges. I knew what the guidelines state but I'll usually just post the checker output in those cases as its easier than arguing. However, I find it annoying when I look for challenge caches that a lot of time the only thing that the recent logs contain are the qualifications. You have to scroll through so much fluff to get to the actual meat of the log. That is, if someone even talked about the cache rather than just posting the qualifications. Its the same thing with people who post copy and paste logs (although I am sometimes guilty of this too ....).

 

I also got to think of the matter from HQ's perspective. Two things:

1. Storage costs: Logs cost money to store in the db. Albeit, not a lot as storing text is very cheap, but by encouraging people not to post copy and paste logs you decrease the needless data you are storing
2. Non-premium project-gc constraints. By outsourcing the challenge checkers to project-gc suddenly you are dependent on another platform. Specifically, project-gc only allows a non-premium user to run a checker 10 times a day. While I am premium in project-gc, I wasn't always and used to run into the problem on challenge trails where I would find more than 10 challenge caches a day and wouldn't be able to copy and paste the output until waiting for another 24 hours even though I knew I qualified.

 

I understand where you are coming from wanting others to verify but I think this is really not a huge issue no matter how you look at it. I'd be fine if HQ said you had to post the qualifications as well. 

[+Mausebiber]

6 hours ago, Triple_P said:

That's time consuming. All it takes is the finder to post their stats for me and it saves me time to do other things. 

 

You are repeating yourself over and over again and quite obviously, you are not open to all the arguments from other users posted above. 

The answer to this is very easy, again...

 

You want to keep the challenge, you have to invest some of your valuable time, like any other cache owner for their cache,

or

you don't want to spend some time for your challenge, just archive it and you would have more time to do other things

 

(like posting her several times a day)

[+Triple_P]

5 hours ago, Mausebiber said:

 

You are repeating yourself over and over again and quite obviously, you are not open to all the arguments from other users posted above. 

The answer to this is very easy, again...

 

You want to keep the challenge, you have to invest some of your valuable time, like any other cache owner for their cache,

or

you don't want to spend some time for your challenge, just archive it and you would have more time to do other things

 

(like posting her several times a day)

I'm repeating myself over and over again because it's new people asking various spin off questions from stuff I already posted about. A new question comes with a new answer. 

 

I'm not archiving it, oops repeated that again..sorry not sorry.

 

If I wasn't open to their arguments, I would have archived my caches, instead, I'm running the checkers, keeping up with who posts what, and when necessary adding finders qualifications to the electronic logs as a common ground. 

[+Mausebiber]

One example, what it would look like, if everyone would post the result of the log requirements.  The part where users are talking about their cache experience is almost disappearing with all the other information.

 

[Mausebiber](https://www.geocaching.com/profile/?u=Mausebiber) has used [Project-GC](https://project-gc.com/Challenges/GCA42BG/74543 "Project-GC Challenge Checker") to see if they qualified for this challenge and they did.

Completed countries:
France: 9 types.
GC25Q33 Earthcache Grotte Sainte-Reine Cave
GC8ATW6 Wherigo Cache Matrice LXXXI #36
GC7B9YZ Virtual Cache Arbogast et les ermites de la forêt de Haguenau
GC264K8 Unknown Cache COMMANDO DANTES INFERNO
GCJW6Y Traditional Cache Far East
GC3CHDH Multi-cache Petit Ouvrage de Welschhof
GCTWJ1 Letterbox Hybrid Extrem4 -"Stonerose"-  Nachtcache
GC7D6YH Mega-Event Cache GeoBretzel Event 2018
GC7D6YG Event Cache Meet & Greet - Premiers forages

Spain: 8 types.
GC8M90M Lost and Found Event Cache JimJinks and Ems on Holiday
GCHXPA Virtual Cache El Gordo (Lost Place)
GC668Y8 Unknown Cache 02 Corral del Niño
GC12FKJ Traditional Cache Punta de n'Amer
GC21CE3 Letterbox Hybrid Barrage II - Lost Place
GC16PWE Earthcache Coves de Campanet
GC2YBDC Multi-cache La Orotava - Stadtführung / Sightseeing
GC5CWV3 Event Cache Beachtime Tenerife #2

Austria: 6 types.
GC7B79Z Virtual Cache Goldenes Dachl - Golden Roof - Tettuccio d’oro
GC3MK2Q Unknown Cache Rund um die untere Möll Part V (Finalcache)
GC18FX5 Traditional Cache Kreuzweg
GC2TT79 Letterbox Hybrid 2. Osttiroler Letterbox & TB-Hotel Nussdorf-Debant
GC16DKY Multi-cache Schatz_am_Klausenwald
GC1T568 Earthcache op.13 Die Granatschlucht-The Garnet Gorge

Germany: 14 types.
GC57V0R GPS Adventures Exhibit GPS MAZE EUROPE - Germany
GC26Y8B Lost and Found Event Cache 10 Years! Schriesheim, Germany
GCHJQ9 Webcam Cache Mannemer Webcam
GC4K089 Giga-Event Cache Project MUNICH2014 - Mia san Giga!
GC115Y4 Earthcache Prähistorisches Aquarium
GC26E8N Cache In Trash Out Event Heidelberger Frühjahrsputz
GC19R08 Wherigo Cache Oase der Ruhe
GCDBCE Virtual Cache Philosophy or Platitude?
GCTE22 Unknown Cache Die Urne
GCHC5W Traditional Cache Forest Trail
GC13YRJ Letterbox Hybrid Hexentanzplatz
GCHMK4 Multi-cache Riesenstein - Giant Stone
GC21CET Mega-Event Cache Nacht der Vulkane 2013
GC1115N Event Cache 7. Stammtisch Kurpfalz

Malta: 7 types.
GC890NR Virtual Cache Memorial Siege Bell
GC6FWTD Unknown Cache Crazy Cacher in Space
GC5RA1E Traditional Cache Villa Rosa View
GCA04H4 Earthcache Triton Fountain from travertine rock
GC97F89 Multi-cache Sliema Revolution
GC842DA Wherigo Cache Christ the King A Reverse Wherigo
GCAG3B8 Event Cache Meet at the Siege Bell Memorial

Netherlands: 8 types.
GC2DE4 Webcam Cache Haarlem Webcam
GC6EB6 Virtual Cache Round 'n Round
GC4412P Unknown Cache Biljarten 01: Van acquit
GC2TE74 Traditional Cache Hockesberghe~6~Jurisdictiepaal
GC6XFEK Letterbox Hybrid 07~~ 81 langs de A7 [HCE2017]
GC7J6JE Wherigo Cache Where I Go # 10
GC2V262 Multi-cache Ter nagedachtenis aan....
GC2DQ90 Earthcache Grondwatermeter in 't Grintenbosch

United States: 7 types.
GCDFD4 Virtual Cache ANOTHER Las Vegas wedding
GC32A0H Unknown Cache Ode to the Golgafrinchan Phone Workers
GCK3N5 Earthcache A Home of "Dragons" Earthcache
GCCCC7 Traditional Cache STOP AND GO,GO,GO,   3
GCK25B Groundspeak HQ Geocaching Headquarters
GC4K2E2 Letterbox Hybrid Bear Lake State Marina
GC8FR0G Locationless (Reverse) Cache Find Signal the Frog® - Locationless in 2020

Czechia: 12 types.
GC45GGA GPS Adventures Exhibit GPS MAZE EUROPE - Czech Republic
GCM3R4 Multi-cache Expansion`s magnetic child (Prague)
GCPDPE Webcam Cache Zbraslav Cleaner Webcam Cache
GC371Z1 Wherigo Cache Tourist Guide round Prague I
GC25G2H Letterbox Hybrid GEO-POST OFFICE Praha - Dolni Chabry
GC6F37 Virtual Cache Prague, Staroměstské náměstí
GCV17D Unknown Cache PraGeo - Jewish cache D1/T1
GC27ZYH Traditional Cache Bílý Kostel
GC4F67C Cache In Trash Out Event GCF EU 2013 - CITO GeoStromovka
GCN8PQ Earthcache Komorni Hurka Earthcache
GC3JJJJ Mega-Event Cache GEOCOINFEST EUROPE 2013 - Prague
GC45H5T Event Cache GCF EU 2013 - 24 hodin GeoStromovka

Switzerland: 10 types.
GC4AVH7 Letterbox Hybrid MEGA Switzerland 2014 - Letterbox
GCPM3E Webcam Cache Appenzell -Hauptgasse-Webcam
GC4NNQ3 Earthcache Das Basler Münster / The Basel Münster
GC4VQ2R Wherigo Cache Ohne Most in Mostindien
GC4FPY0 Unknown Cache Qwiss #6: Schweizer Puzzle
GC4ZMPR Traditional Cache Horse Race #1: Skyfall
GC7B8ZA Virtual Cache catch the Fasnacht (virtual reward)
GC4TZ3D Multi-cache Hier entlang - This way
GC4DJ98 Mega-Event Cache MEGA Switzerland - meeting friends 2014
GC4XTK2 Event Cache Hello Geocacher

Portugal: 6 types.
GC890NN Virtual Cache Feeling “ZEN”
GC7N0CW Unknown Cache S.Miguel #091
GC5CGPE Traditional Cache LPPD - Controlo de Tráfego Aéreo
GC1N2Q8 Earthcache FF12 - Ying Yang
GC8MPJF Multi-cache Ponte 7 Cidades
GC6P1E0 Letterbox Hybrid A lenda da Princesa

 

[+Mausebiber]

One more example, what was discussed above.  Would you just believe the log below, or would you check to see, if this is correct?

 

GCAHMJF - I - 75 County Challenge (United States)

[Mausebiber](https://www.geocaching.com/profile/?u=Mausebiber) has used [Project-GC] https://project-gc.com/Challenges/GCAHMJF/84045 to see if they qualified for this challenge and they did.

 

User has 5846 finds (1000 needed) Filters:( county:Hamilton County (OH) , country:United States)

User has 9863 finds (1000 needed) Filters:( county:Butler County (OH) , country:United States)

User has 3512 finds (1000 needed) Filters:( county:Montgomery County (OH) , country:United States)

User has 1790 finds (230 needed) Filters:( county:Miami County (OH) , country:United States)