Mudplugger Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 In my experience committees work fine at a regional level but when you are dealing with a national pastime all sorts of regional problems develop and inevitably someone disagrees with one of the committee so they go off and set up their own splinter group and so on and so forth. (just look at any car club) I am in favour of some kind of formal "rules" in order to give T & J and others a standpoint when representing us on various issues but this route is fraught with problems if not handled properly. Somedays you are a pigeon and others you are a statue ! Quote Link to comment
+paul.blitz Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 The main problem with setting up a committee for ANY organisation, local or national, is that if the committee are all volunteers, then, at some time or other, you will find that the committee conatains very able people, but sadly, people who are unable to actually dedicate time to "doing what needs to be done". At that point, everone starts to whinge that things are not being done, but noone is willing to actually do the job themselves, coz they too don't have the time. Next thing that happens is that people with the time, but not the ability, end up on the committe. They may be well-intentioned, but that does NOT make them "capable". At that point, everone starts to whinge that things are not being done, but noone is willing to actually do the job themselves, coz they too don't have the time. (hey, I already said that.....) I am involed with one local organisation (on its committee) that suffers this problem, and it's national "umbrella" organisation has exactly the same problems. (Some organisations do cope well.... and if you look, you'll often find that they are being run by paid staff.....) There is never an easy or correct answer.... Paul Noone in their right mind would place a cache THERE.... Quote Link to comment
+Wood Smoke Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 As was mentioned in another post I am new here, but what I am experienced at is organisation and committees. Geocaching in the UK is at a turning point (in my opinion), I think it needs organising now before it's too late. Organisation takes time, and so needs to be started early enough in the development so that it's not too late. As for how to do it, here are my suggestions...... 1. We are an internet based group and setting up 'Internet Committees' using chat rooms is almost as good as face to face, I know I've done it. 2. I believe we need several levels of organisation with committees at each level. National Regional Local Remember, committees don't have to be large. I would suggest that local committees would be about three people. 3. The place to start is with a National 'Steering Committee', this would be quite large and would 'write the rules', taking input from everyone. When their job is done, they then hand over to the other committees to guide Geocaching in the UK for the future. 4. All this takes time to set up. If we don't start now............... 5. Btw, I have no interest in taking over or even serving on any of the committees, but I do offer my organisational skills and experience in this area. WoodSmoke Quote Link to comment
+Lance Ambu Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 A committee would meet at eight o'clock. the members would meet at about 7:30 and finalise their, previously agreed by phone in the last few days, personal agendas. At 8:10 the meeting would start and at the agreed point in the approval of the previous minutes someone would drop a low flying decoy. This would entice the intended target to raise their head. At which point the main attack is begun. after the temperature has risen a few degrees, debate would turn to historical anecdotes of an embarassing and personal nature. When order is restored and everyone wants to go home several unsound motions will be passed in an attempt to appear even handed. At the next meeting when the previously passed unsound motions are mentioned in the minutes someone will drop a low flying decoy.... Lance It's dark and we're wearing sunglasses. Quote Link to comment
+Omally Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 If a committee decides it will make a horse, what you invariably end up with is something closely resembling a camel... Neutiquam erro. Quote Link to comment
+jeremyp Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 This is all very interesting, but what would all these committees actually be for? I can't see the point in building big organisations for something that doesn't need organising. That's not to say that there is no need for various committees (maybe there are other threads I haven't read yet which address this). BTW the camel is a superbly well adapted animal for the habitat in which it lives. If it was designed by a committee it was a good one. ------- jeremyp The second ten million caches were the worst too. http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching Quote Link to comment
+Omally Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 quote:BTW the camel is a superbly well adapted animal for the habitat in which it lives. If it was designed by a committee it was a good one. Not that good if it was meant to be a horse! Neutiquam erro. Quote Link to comment
+The Bennett Family Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 quote:Not that good if it was meant to be a horse! Now look there's no need to take the hump... Sigh...I know i'm sorry.. We take our children everywhere, but they always find their way back home... Quote Link to comment
+jeremyp Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Omally: Not that good if it was meant to be a horse! Well it wasn't. Anyway, that was off topic. Will somebody please post the objectives of all these committees so that I can decide whether to be enthusiastic or cynical about them. ------- jeremyp The second ten million caches were the worst too. http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching Quote Link to comment
Seifer Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 My views on committees: The committee, a group of people who take minutes and waste hours Mike Remember....you're not a salmon Quote Link to comment
+Tim & June Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 To some extent, we already have a committe of sorts. At the top we have Jeremy who owns the site. Ultimately he has the final decision as to what should or should not appear on his website. Under Jeremy there are a number of people worldwide. Representing the UK on Geocaching.com we have: Moss Trooper, Richard and Beth and June and I, who discuss issues between ourselves before decisions are taken. We have a forum where all admins gather, to discuss various topics and vote on certain items. For the most part, and to his credit, Jeremy does listen to what his admin has to say and usually acts on it. Very roughly, is this not what a committee does ? Sure, at times we do get a little loud in our debates but things do get done and we all act together as a community or team. The good part is, if we get too busy in the UK with approving caches (for example), we only have to post asking for help and a large number will "get over here" and muck in, and vice versa. I have not seen that on any other "committee". We guess that June and I may at times be seen to be more proactive than the other UK admins but to be fair to the them, we have more time available. Be sure however, that they still do much more than you all realise. It's just that what they do, might not be always so visible. Tim & June (Winchester) See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! Quote Link to comment
Mudplugger Posted March 30, 2003 Author Share Posted March 30, 2003 The reason for starting this topic was that the subject had been raised in the T& J "there are only so many times......" thread I was curious to see if it was supported by the community or not. I personally don't think a committee would be of any benefit whatsoever but was interested in what other people had to say. Quote Link to comment
Sel Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Tim & June:Under Jeremy there are a number of people worldwide. Representing the UK on Geocaching.com we have: Moss Trooper, Richard and Beth and June and I, who discuss issues between ourselves before decisions are taken. Ooooh, I thought your actual job was just forum moderator. I'm confused now. Are the UK admins propers representatives (i.e. spokespersons) or are you approvers and moderators of discussion boards? In my experience there's a lot of difference between the job titles, although little difference in the jobs the uK admins seem to do....? -- Why'd ya have to go and make things so complicated? Quote Link to comment
+washboy Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Sel: quote:Originally posted by Tim & June:...Representing the UK on Geocaching.com we have:... ...I'm confused now. Are the UK admins propers representatives (i.e. spokespersons)...? T&J will, no doubt, give you chapter and verse about their role(s) as Forum Moderator(s) and Administrator(s). In the meantime, it might help you to keep things in perspective if you appreciate that: This forum is provided by Geocaching.com (Groundspeak, Inc.). It concerns geocaching matters, particularly as they relate to cache listings on Geocaching.com. Geocaching.com provides a listings service for cache descriptions and logs. It is not, in itself, the arbiter of all things 'geocache'. There are other listings services. There are other forums. Geocaching.com just happens to be the most popular. As such, it is often perceived as the 'home' of geocaching. Make of that what you will. Moderator/Administrator roles aside (i.e it's a personal thing), I trust such reasonable and eloquent folk as T&J to represent my geocaching aspirations with landowners and other interested parties. ===== There's no such thing as a free lunchbox! [This message was edited by washboy on March 31, 2003 at 04:22 AM.] Quote Link to comment
+paul.blitz Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 quote:Originally posted by washboy: quote:Are the UK admins propers representatives (i.e. spokespersons)...? In the meantime, it might help you to keep things in perspective if you appreciate that: + This forum is provided by Geocaching.com (Groundspeak, Inc.). It concerns geocaching matters, particularly as they relate to cache listings on Geocaching.com. (... etc : much cut) This reminds me of the idea of someone who sets up a "club" for a group of people.... it is HIS club, but after a while, the growing membership feel that the owner should allow democracy, and have an elected committee etc If you think of a country with a dictator, then the people have no real choice.... but in the case of this ficticious club, the members DO have a choice, as they CAN set up another club (although it's not as likely to be as popular, but it HAS been known). But as long as the members remain in that original club, run by the owner / founder, they should abide by the rules of that club, which may include such things as "rules", "acceptance of moderators" and so on. GC.COM is "owned" by Jeremy, and as such, if we want to stay welcome, then we should accept the way that he runs things, which may include the APPOINTMENT of moderators etc. As it happens, I think we have a fairly benevolent "dictator", who allowed us to "choose" our recent new moderators. But I don't think we should be trying to argue about "democracy" in gc.com (or in cg:uk for that matter) or we might suddenly find ourselves no longer welcome...... Now, about this new geocaching club...... Paul Noone in their right mind would place a cache THERE.... Quote Link to comment
+Tim & June Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Sel:Ooooh, I thought your actual job was just forum moderator. I'm confused now. Are the UK admins propers representatives (i.e. spokespersons) or are you approvers and moderators of discussion boards? In my experience there's a lot of difference between the job titles, although little difference in the jobs the uK admins seem to do....? Sel, You seem to have some issues with the way things are run around here. Reading your post above I have to ask If you have a point to make, if you have, perhaps you would like to make it clear. That way, perhaps the community could assist you. My thought that you have some issues is supported by the fact that, thinking back, I cannot remember a single positive posting from you. Is there anything within geocaching.com that you agree with or think is worth supporting? Tim & June (Winchester) See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! Quote Link to comment
+Chris n Maria Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Sel: Ooooh, I thought your actual job was just forum moderator. I'm confused now. Are the UK admins propers representatives (i.e. spokespersons) or are you approvers and moderators of discussion boards? In my experience there's a lot of difference between the job titles, although little difference in the jobs the uK admins seem to do....? The forum admins are also the UK cache approvers. When I started here that wasn't the case, in that caches were aproved by any approver (usually from the US). Arguments developed when caches did not get approved by US moderators for things that seemed reasonable to us in the UK. In order to placate our feelings of upset Jeremy agreed that all UK caches should be approved by UK approvers and all was lovely in the world of UK caching. As cache approvers, UK admins are effectivly the guardians of caching in the UK in that they interpret the rules. So there role is similar to a judge, in that they interpret individual caches against the rules of Geocaching.com - like a judge interprets individual cases against UK law. Other caching sites may do it differently so you are free to visit them if you like or you can put yourself up for nomination as an admin, next time the oportunity presents itself (I was nominated once and am really really glad I didn't get it). The admins we currently have are working hard to obtain agrement with National and local authorities to get Geocaching recognised and promoted...good thing too. If they get in early enough we can avoid the situation they have on the US where all the national parks are unavailable for caching. I support what they are doing. Chris Bear rescues a speciality! London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net Quote Link to comment
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