+The Hornet Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 I recently visited the Blickling Pyramid cache and took the camera to get it processed. I've now had the pictures developed and have scanned them into a "photo album" which you can see at http://www.phoward.dns2go.com/blickling/ If you recognise yourself, or anyone else please leave a message here with the details or e-mail me I'll change the captions to indicate who you are. I won't be replying until after 14th as I shall be away on holiday. Peter (Hornet) _________________________________________________________ It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do. Quote Link to comment
+Icenians Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 No 25 is the less camera shy members of the Icenians along with Jack. Statistics show that those with the most birthdays live longest. Quote Link to comment
+naffita Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 Number 18 is me. That'l teach me to try a self portrait. Quote Link to comment
+naffita Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 Number 18 is me. That'l teach me to try a self portrait. Quote Link to comment
dpstevens Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Photo 12 is Andrew, Clare, Robert and Pyramid and Photo 13 is Sandra and David - all of team dpstevens. Thanks for posting the pictures. Quote Link to comment
+Toscouk Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 No.15 thats me, thanks but self pics don`t look right. Pictures from The Coast Road Kelling http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=9970 can be found at http://www.palmiped.btinternet.co.uk/geocache/geocache_pictures.htm Johnty Quote Link to comment
+Nia Posted September 21, 2002 Share Posted September 21, 2002 I must of done this cache on my own (rare) no kids just me Steve from team Nia. #16 I'm amazed i got the pyramid in the shot. Quote Link to comment
+The Hornet Posted September 22, 2002 Author Share Posted September 22, 2002 The site's been updated with the names I've had so far. _________________________________________________________ It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do. Quote Link to comment
+Sue and Bernie Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 Sue & I logged a visit after Baflo Bill (from Baflo, Holland) and took a photo. Did it not come out? - or was it too bad to show to the great British Public? Bernie Kennedy Quote Link to comment
+The Hornet Posted October 6, 2002 Author Share Posted October 6, 2002 I've scanned all the pictures that were in the camera and have posted the lot. There was no censorship Maybe you didn't press the button hard enough!! _________________________________________________________ It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do. Quote Link to comment
+The Hornet Posted October 6, 2002 Author Share Posted October 6, 2002 I've scanned all the pictures that were in the camera and have posted the lot. There was no censorship Maybe you didn't press the button hard enough!! _________________________________________________________ It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do. Quote Link to comment
+Sue and Bernie Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 Heh! I am an Engineer! I know all about pressing buttons... perhaps you can copy the family photo on my profile and slap that into your album instead to make up the numbers (that will save us going back and taking a dozen more to make sure). Impressed that you manage your cache from such a distance. Bernie Kennedy Quote Link to comment
+The Hornet Posted October 8, 2002 Author Share Posted October 8, 2002 Actually it's not my cache. I just happend to find the used camera so decided to get it processed. _________________________________________________________ It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do. Quote Link to comment
+element14 Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 I just was wondering if it was ethical to take the camera from someone elses cache and develop it. Surely the camera, logbook and stashnote are items that "belong" to the cache, and are not meant to be removed by anyone else. I'm sure this was done with the best of intentions, but for my caches I have a note on the camera, asking that the finder does not take it. I physically check my caches periodically and also keep an eye on the logs on the website. If I see that the camera or the logbook is full, or someone tells me then I will replace it. This is my responsibility as the owner of my caches. Quote Link to comment
el10t Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Its a good point. Personally, for my (one) cache with a camera in it I would be OK with Hornet taking the full camera and getting it developed, provided I could have the original photos back (which I am sure Hornet would be OK about) - its nice to have the prints. I would, of course, hope that I would be informed by anyone making the decision to get my film developed of their intentions, just to stop me making a wasted trip to collect the full camera. What do the owners of caches where this has actually happened think? Rich mobilis in mobili Quote Link to comment
+The Hornet Posted October 9, 2002 Author Share Posted October 9, 2002 Obviously or I wouldn't have taken it to get it developed. In your case element14, you clearly labelled the camera so I wouldn't dream of taking it. In this case I was trying to be helpful. What's the camera in the cache for? To my mind it's to collect snapshots for all to enjoy. What I did was to try to be helpful by providing this service. Of course if the cache owner wants the pictures I would be very happy to post them on. You will also notice that as soon as I had taken it I logged the fact on the cache page. I too would like to hear from other "camera placers" to know their feelings. As a supplemental question how do you feel about some other person placing a camera in one of your caches. It's happend a couple of times to me and I'm very happy for them to be there. The person placing them also offered to retrieve them and get them processed at their expense should I want them to. Peter _________________________________________________________ It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do. Quote Link to comment
+Richard & Beth Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 I've tried to locate some definite guidance on this, but the standard stash note makes no mention of a camera. The only mention is this from Guide to Creating and Hiding a Cache: quote:Lastly, you can put goodies in the cache. It's recommended, but not necessary! Some ideas of items to give as gifts: * Disposable camera - Put one in and ask everyone to take a picture of themselves and put it back in the cache. Later you can develop the photos and place them online. .... Once you place the cache, it is your responsibility to maintain the cache and the area around it. You'll need to return as often as you can to ensure that your cache is not impacting the area, and ensure that the cache is in good repair. I've only copied the relevant parts, but the gist of the document is that the person who has hidden the cache is responsible for it. It also says that 'you' - the cache owner can have the photographs developed. Whilst I know that Hornet regards this as being helpful, I would say that the way the rules are currently worded a cache owner is led to believe that the camera is part of the cache and their responsibility. Basically that the camera, like the logbook stays in the cache unless they ask someone to remove it, rather than having to tell people not to remove it. It is worth saying I am aware of a cacher who has had one of their camera developed, and was told after the event by means of a log entry, and was not best pleased. In that situation they did not officially complain to the site, and just left it. Since the rules are not totally clear, if somebody did complain it would be up to Jeremy and the admins to decide what to do. However I would suggest that to avoid problems that people should only remove and develop the camera from someone elses cache if you have the express permission of the cache owner to do so - specifically you shouldn't take the abscence of a request from the owner to leave the camera in the cache as implied permission to remove it. Richard [This message was edited by Richard & Beth on October 09, 2002 at 03:03 PM.] Quote Link to comment
el10t Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 quote:Originally posted by The Hornet:As a supplemental question how do you feel about some other person placing a camera in one of your caches. This happened to my cache and I was more than happy that someone had donated a camera to it. I wrote an email of gratitude to the donator but didn't think to discuss with them the camera ownership - I think I just assumed it became part of the static cache contents and was therefore my responsibility. On reflection, I would be happy for the person who donated it to get the film developed if they so wished. No problem to me. I think one worry would be if a person took the camera to get developed in an attempt to be helpful but then they turned out to be not be as concientious as Hornet and neglected to post the pictures anywhere. One more point while I am thinking about this issue - the cache owner really does need the original photos because they may want to use them for different purposes such as creating a screensaver (and therefore require different resolutions etc) than the camera developer who is putting relatively low res piccys in an online album. Rich mobilis in mobili Quote Link to comment
+Nia Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 our twopence worth... We feel that any caches we place, once approved then belong to the 'geocaching comunity' and are more than happy for anyone to place a camera, develop pictures, upgrade a small box, etc. Also having recently moved house we can not maintain all the old caches, so any help is appreciated. Tech-no notice Quote Link to comment
+element14 Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 I wasn't meaning to critise the Hornet, but the rules are possibly a little unclear. I have to agree with Richard that the camera and the logbook should stay with the cache and should only be removed with permission of the cache owner. If somone else left a camera in my cache, then I would be quite happy with that, however I would have to ask them whether this item was meant for trading, or for taking pictures of the cache visitors, and to check what they wanted to do with it when it was full. I also agree with el10t that a well meaning person took the camera, but then lost it, (as often happens with travel bugs), and that the original photos will be much higher resolution than scanned images on the web. Perhaps we should have a poll to see what everyone thinks? Element14 Quote Link to comment
+The Hornet Posted October 10, 2002 Author Share Posted October 10, 2002 What a Hornet's nest (pun intended) I seem to have stirred up! The problem with seeking the owner's permission before taking the camera to get it processed is that before you visit the cache you don't know that the camera is used up. I rarely get the opportunity to visit a cache more than once as I have to travel some distance to find new caches so seeking permission is not an option. How about this for a suggestion? When you place a camera in a cache why not indicate in the description if you are happy for someone else to "take on" the task of processing/scanning the negs? Something along the lines of "Happy for the taker of the last picture to process the film and post the results" or "Please leave camera for me to get pics developed". If you have a number of caches/cameras already placed, like I do, you could always put your policy in your profile. I shall be doing this. In the mean time I shall not try and be helpful again and I will leave any "empty" cameras where I find them unless I see a note expressing a clear view as above. Hope this helps, Peter _________________________________________________________ It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do. Quote Link to comment
+The Hornet Posted October 10, 2002 Author Share Posted October 10, 2002 What a Hornet's nest (pun intended) I seem to have stirred up! The problem with seeking the owner's permission before taking the camera to get it processed is that before you visit the cache you don't know that the camera is used up. I rarely get the opportunity to visit a cache more than once as I have to travel some distance to find new caches so seeking permission is not an option. How about this for a suggestion? When you place a camera in a cache why not indicate in the description if you are happy for someone else to "take on" the task of processing/scanning the negs? Something along the lines of "Happy for the taker of the last picture to process the film and post the results" or "Please leave camera for me to get pics developed". If you have a number of caches/cameras already placed, like I do, you could always put your policy in your profile. I shall be doing this. In the mean time I shall not try and be helpful again and I will leave any "empty" cameras where I find them unless I see a note expressing a clear view as above. Hope this helps, Peter _________________________________________________________ It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do. Quote Link to comment
+element14 Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 I posted a similar query to the one I posted here about developing cameras in another thread. It is here if you want to see the replies. I think Peters suggestion is a good solution, but if in the absence of any positive instructions on the website or on the camera itself I would leave it, let the cache owner know and let them decide what to do. Element14 [This message was edited by element14 on October 10, 2002 at 02:45 PM.] Quote Link to comment
+jeremyp Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 On the basis that the cache owner might be upset and the fact that I rarely (well, never) carry replacement cameras about with me, I'd never remove a used up camera from somebody else's cache. ------- jeremyp The second ten million caches were the worst too. http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching Quote Link to comment
+Lost in Space Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by The Hornet:I just happend to find the used camera so decided to get it processed. I am sorry, but I am absolutely amazed at the responses that this kindly act, performed by a leading exponent of Geocaching in the UK, has brought! It is just this kind of "geekish", "nerdish", "anorak" attitude, as shown in the mails to this forum that will kill our "sport" in bureaucracy. Come on folks! Do you all spend your lives looking at things in such a manner so that you can comment, (negatively), on them? Get a life!! Quote Link to comment
+element14 Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Lost in Space: I am sorry, but I am absolutely amazed at the responses that this kindly act, performed by a leading exponent of Geocaching in the UK, has brought! It is just this kind of "geekish", "nerdish", "anorak" attitude, as shown in the mails to this forum that will kill our "sport" in bureaucracy. Come on folks! Do you all spend your lives looking at things in such a manner so that you can comment, (negatively), on them? As I said I wasn't criticising what the Hornet had done, just pointing out the rules are a bit unclear. quote:Get a life!! Thanks, I already have one. There is no need to get personal. Quote Link to comment
el10t Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Lost in Space:It is just this kind of "geekish", "nerdish", "anorak" attitude, as shown in the mails to this forum that will kill our "sport" in bureaucracy. Come on folks! Do you all spend your lives looking at things in such a manner so that you can comment, (negatively), on them? Get a life!! Hi LiS, I wasn't aware any of the posts here have been geekish, nerdish, anorakish or negative at all in any way, and I apologise if anything I personally have written has come across this way. I honestly thought we were having a valuable discussion on the pro's and con's of third-party camera developing. Sorry to have upset anyone - I don't believe anyone has been personally criticised in this thread. Rich mobilis in mobili [This message was edited by el10t on October 13, 2002 at 01:26 PM.] Quote Link to comment
+The Hornet Posted October 13, 2002 Author Share Posted October 13, 2002 As the person at the heart of these discussions please let me add my thoughts to the latest comments. I have read LIS's comments and although he has expressed them in a typically forthright manner I have to sympathise with his general argument. This activity we all enjoy is a game. It serves no other purpose than for us all to have a bit of healthy fun. It is like the internet used to be 6 or 7 years ago, run by enthusiasts for enthusiasts. No real rules, just general guidelines which develop all the time. It is in danger of taking itself too seriously or should I say WE are in danger of taking OURSELVES too seriously. C'mon guys & gals lighten up. What we are discussing here is of no consequence in the grand scheme of things. What I did was to try and help someone else. I make no apologies for it and I would do the same again. It took my money and my time, both of which are mine to give. It is of interest that The Cache owner, The Riddler, has taken no part in these discussions, neither has he responded to my original log nor e-mail informing him of my actions. It has been said several times that I wasn't being criticised personally and I totally accept this. I'm pleased to consider all of you as friends, even though I've only personally met a few of you. What worries me is the danger of this crazy game being mired in "political correctness" with in depth discussions about rights & wrongs, whether someone might get upset at some unintended slight, whether actions could be misconstrued and so on. There's way too much of this creeping into "normal everyday" life so for God's sake let's keep it out of here. Please let commonsense be our watchword. The one "Rule" we should all follow is "Do what YOU think is sensible when placing and hunting for caches". I suggest we draw a line under all this navel contemplation and despite the cold and wet weather we're now experiencing let's follow Pid's suggestion and get out there and do some caching. OK? Peter _________________________________________________________ It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do. Quote Link to comment
+Lost in Space Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Peter, As always you are the "oil on troubled waters". You keep doing what you do,and I will keep quiet for as long as I can................. LiS Quote Link to comment
+Tim & June Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 quote:Originally posted by The Hornet: I suggest we draw a line under all this navel contemplation and despite the cold and wet weather we're now experiencing let's follow Pid's suggestion and get out there and do some caching. OK? Peter Reckon Peter is right, Time to call it a day before this goes too far. But we know why Peter really did it ... He used to work for Kodak and he's getting withdrawal symptoms. Tim & June (Winchester) See June, I told you that sign which said 'Unsuitable for Motor Vehicles' was wrong ! Quote Link to comment
+The Hornet Posted October 14, 2002 Author Share Posted October 14, 2002 Darn it - you got me bang to rights Now if anyone needs any parcels moved............. _________________________________________________________ It is better to regret something you did, rather than to regret something you didn't do. Quote Link to comment
+jeremyp Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 quote:Originally posted by The Hornet: What worries me is the danger of this crazy game being mired in "political correctness" with in depth discussions about rights & wrongs, whether someone might get upset at some unintended slight, whether actions could be misconstrued and so on. There's way too much of this creeping into "normal everyday" life so for God's sake let's keep it out of here. Actually, political correctness is the banning of in depth discussions for fear of hurting somebody's feelings. The forums would be a very tedious place if we didn't have the occasional lively discussion. Also, if we have a discussion about the rights and wrongs of certain actions, then some people are bound to come in for some criticism. As long as it doesn't descend to the level of personal insults, I think that's OK. Now, in this particular case, I think it was perfectly legitimate for somebody to raise the matter of "should you take cameras from other people's caches". After all, it could be a problem for some cache owner and it's probably better that you - and they - are aware of the issue before you accidentally upset them. I think that on the whole this has been a valuable discussion. ------- jeremyp The second ten million caches were the worst too. http://www.jeremyp.net/geocaching Quote Link to comment
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