What is he up to

[Guest WhatsHeUpTo]

OK, I realise that this might be a bit iffy and I do not wish to start a flame war, but I have a concern with WHY the Lovelocks are planting caches. I am also concerned that placing too many caches in a small area might actually harm the hobby.

 

I would also question their reasons for planting caches because on their first find "The Queens Oak" they logged :

 

quote:

----------------------

Hi ! Robin Lovelock of www.gpss.co.uk here.

June and myself made our first find yesterday,

Saturday 25th August 2001 - detailed in

http://www.gpss.co.uk/geocache.htm

Only 30 minutes behind those from Winchester(?)

and 60 minutes behind those from Holland.

Left 2 of my Free CD. Want to contact

local Geocachers - for my own business rather

than hobby reasons. I'm on 01344 620775

(Home and Business) All on www.gpss.co.uk

What a great hobby - if only we had time for it :-)

---------------------------

 

Planting caches "for my own business rather

than hobby reasons" is perhaps not what the game is about. Does anybody know more about this? I also note that "What a great hobby - if only we had time for it" only gives the Lovelocks time to log 5 visits to caches, two of which were his.

 

I wonder if placing loads of caches in a small area might impede the spread of geocaching outside this area. If there are too many close by, hunters might not bother to go that little bit further and therefore there is no need for other people to stash in the "little bit further" area.

 

Perhaps its the cynic in me, but I do wonder.

 

Any thoughts?

[Guest Beth]

Ok, Robin is having browser problems he's asked me to post his reply.

 

Richard

 

--------

 

For some reason my (recent) Microsoft Browser aborts after

reading a message. But I did manage to read one of the

messages, voicing concerns about my motives. Maybe they

have not visited my geocache.htm page

http://www.gpss.co.uk/geocache.htm

 

- which is pretty explicit why I am interested in Geocaching,

and provides background on my conversations with Jeremy Irish.

e.g. "I am enthusiastic about geocaching because it has enormous scope to

popularise GPS to

a much wider audience: this helps my GPS Software business. It is also

great fun :-) "

 

Perhaps you could post this message up onto this forum, and act as someone

to bring these views to our discussion over food and drinks tonight.

Everybody has a right to their views being heard - sorry that I can't hear

them directly

- although they are welcome to contact me direct on gpss@compuserve.com or

01344 620775.

 

Robin

 

(Robin Lovelock, Sunninghill Systems, 22 Armitage Court, Sunninghill, Ascot

SL5 9TA, UK

tel: 01344 620775 email:gpss@compuserve.com website:www.gpss.co.uk)

 

 

[This message has been edited by Richard & Beth (edited 12 October 2001).]

[Guest Beth]

Ok, having posted Robin's reply, I think I should throw in my point of view.

 

I placed the first cache he found, he gave me a copy of the software, I looked at it, but decided I prefered using Street Planner and Route Planner on my Psion 5mx, and the Garmin stuff to program the GPS.

 

I feel that there are two issues here:

 

1. Is it acceptable to use Geocaching to publicise ones business, or movie (Planet of the Apes), or charity (I have a brochure for the nearby church in my cache)?

 

2. Is it a bad thing to have too many caches?

 

In answer to the points, I don't have a problem with 1, as long as the focus is kept on the challenge of the search, rather than making them dead easy to find to provide cheap advertising. (In terms of the movie, I still stand by my opinion that the Planet of the Apes Cache near the M25 is too easy for a 2/2, and is leaning to the side of being easy for cheap advertising)

 

In terms of point 2, I think that again moderation is the key, and also a balance of caches, there is no point in having loads of really easy caches, without more challenging ones. I've noticed from the log books that there are a number of families who go on cache hunts, so ones that are in a nice location, but are relatively easy to find are good for small kids. At the same time there also need to be ones to keep the interest of mad fools like me and Beth that will drive 100km of dirt roads into the Canadian wilderness to find a cache!

 

Richard

 

[This message has been edited by Richard & Beth (edited 12 October 2001).]

[Guest Kimrobin]

<1. Is it acceptable to use Geocaching to publicise ones business, or movie [Planet of the Apes), or charity [i have a brochure for the nearby church in my cache)?>

 

Not in my book. If Robin wants to expand the use of GPS through geocaching, then fine. But he can do that without reference to his own business.

 

<2. Is it a bad thing to have too many caches?>

 

It could be. If people want knock off quick easy caches then fine. I'd rather have a bit more of a challenge.

[Guest Monz]

isit the caches (unlikely but possible) it will be to remove them and deliver them to the owner as he kindly gave us all the return address for the CD's

I refuse to post under a pseudonym as I invite a response from Mr Lovelock.

 

Having just read the response from Richard & Beth I also refuse to accept that geocaching by proxy enters into the spirit of the game.

If he is too busy to get involved in the hobby then why bother....

 

[This message has been edited by Monz (edited 12 October 2001).]

[Guest Monz]

isit the caches (unlikely but possible) it will be to remove them and deliver them to the owner as he kindly gave us all the return address for the CD's

I refuse to post under a pseudonym as I invite a response from Mr Lovelock.

 

Having just read the response from Richard & Beth I also refuse to accept that geocaching by proxy enters into the spirit of the game.

If he is too busy to get involved in the hobby then why bother....

 

[This message has been edited by Monz (edited 12 October 2001).]

[Guest The Northumbrian]

I would like to see all those COMMERCIAL CACHES archived make them a no go area . He could pin an advert up in his local corner shop for 10p a week if he needs to advertise

cheaply

 

------------------

The Northumbrian

[Guest Beth]

I much prefer a challenge in a cache. I'll put my hands up and admit that the only cache we've hidden so far (The Queens Oak) is incredibly easy to find, however judging by the entries in the log book there are still people who have enjoyed finding it.

 

In respect of Monz's comment about me acting as Robin's proxy, Robin asked me to post the reply, which I did, nothing else. For that reason I think the comment about caching by proxy is a little unfair.

 

As I said previously, there are issues that should be discussed which are related to publicising ones business through geocaching, and whether there are too many around Surrey/Berkshire.

 

Having done one of Robin's Caches I can confirm that the contents are much the same as most of the others, there are GPSS CD's, but there is other stuff in there as well. I regard them in a similar way to the thousands of AOL CD's that keep appearing on my doormat and in magazines - since I'm not interested, I don't take them.

 

Richard

 

[This message has been edited by Richard & Beth (edited 12 October 2001).]

[Guest Monz]

quote:

---

In respect of Monz's comment about me acting as Robin's proxy....

Richard[/b]

---

 

What I actually said was geocaching by proxy not corresponding by proxy...

 

* You state you placed his first cache

* The comment on his caches about him being too busy to be on geocaching.com is written in the third party, suggesting he didn't write it but someone else did.

 

It is blatantly obvious he has no interest in the geocaching.com community other than using it as another method of distributing his software.

 

Personally, I find this very condescending and suspect that it will negate the positive PR work all the genuine UK cachers are obviously doing.

[Guest DoomSlayer]

Whoa !! This seems to be getting quite heated !! What would be wrong if Geocachers who don't like the idea that Robin is laying out commercial caches just avoid them and perhaps note it in the log files so that new Geocachers recognise them as such ... that way they can choose whether to do them or not ... Myself I've done only about 6 caches so far and a couple of them were Robin's ... we had a good laff and it was a good intro. ... still a newbie so don't stomp or flame me for just throwing some ideas around !!

[Guest DoomSlayer]

Whoa !! This seems to be getting quite heated !! What would be wrong if Geocachers who don't like the idea that Robin is laying out commercial caches just avoid them and perhaps note it in the log files so that new Geocachers recognise them as such ... that way they can choose whether to do them or not ... Myself I've done only about 6 caches so far and a couple of them were Robin's ... we had a good laff and it was a good intro. ... still a newbie so don't stomp or flame me for just throwing some ideas around !!

[Guest Choberiba]

Forgive me for posting in your forum.

 

I think that the concerns I'm reading about in here are global in nature, so I'll toss in my two pence.

 

I've not been to any of his caches, so I'm not questioning any of your judgement.

 

I am curious about one thing however.

 

If a business decided to use a geocache as a form of advertisment, but, placed a quality cache, in a nice area, using some aggressive concealment tactics. Would there still be an issue?

 

I doubt this would be a very effective way to market ones goods, but if say Disneyland started placing caches in it's parks, or the coffee shop mentioned above had done a bang-up job of entertaining the seekers of the cache, where exactly is the harm?

 

I don't own a business myself, so my interest in this is strictly as someone who wouldn't mind hunting a cache that was placed by a professional.

[Guest timp]

hin reason) if the quality is high but I also think this subject needs close examination.

 

Just my tuppence worth,

Tim

[Guest f-stop]

Quote from "Hide A Cache page "

READ FIRST: This is a free service. Only caches of a non-commercial nature can be posted through this form. If you wish to create a commercial cache or promotion, please contact us first. Caches perceived of a commercial nature will not be approved.">

 

I would like to know how Mr Lovelock is getting away with touting his business in the disguise of Geocaching.

It's blatantly obvious why he is "littering" his 20 mile domain with "caches". But I disagree with the theory behind the statement that if you don't agree with it just avoid the caches.

With any new sport,pastime or hobby there are always objectors and as far as I'm concerned this blanket spreading of second rate, excuse for business advertising, caches will merely serve to fuel any such objections.

[Guest JasonW]

Initially my own feeling was to live & let live, but in my opinion he's just gone too far - 20+ caches by one person isn't a lot in the international scheme of things, however when there are only 130-odd and all of his caches are almost falling over each other then I begin wonder what the point of it all is.

 

Having visited his page, and even tried out the software, all I can say is thanks - but no thanks - if I'd discovered geocaching now rather than 6 months ago, I doubt I'd even have bothered to buy a GPS - looking at the UK caches now it looks like a one man ego trip.

 

If he's having issues with his browser, then I'm sure it's not beyond the wit of man, specifically beyond the wit of a man capable of writing a program of any description, to either (a) uninstall & re-install or ( install another browser.

 

I'm not here to shoot the messenger, but until he shows himself here 'in person' (assuming of course such a busy man can find the time to answer for himself in person) I'll be forced to assume that he is on an ego trip and using geocaching as a vehicle for it. Realise he's not making any money from it as he gives away GPSS for free (although you do have to register - for reasons as yet unclear to me, and for even more nebulous reasons you have to re-register periodically).

 

"Spamming" Geocaching.com to blatantly promote your software is OTT - by all means leave the software in caches, by all means leave plenty of caches, but be circumspect - if there are 15 caches in a 10 mile radius (and even worse they're all yours) is there really any value in planting another one ? I (and I know other cachers) don't think so.

 

Clean up your act and you're welcome - risk dragging the name of Geocaching through the mud and we'll all be the worse off for it.

 

[This message has been edited by JasonW (edited 12 October 2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by JasonW (edited 12 October 2001).]

[Guest lemdip]

Excellent! A real discussion topic.

Firstly, being a newbie, I'm wasn't familiar with Robin's stuff, until now that is.

I can understand why some people see it as not being entirely in what may have been the original spirit of Geocaching, but.............

My first, and only so far, attempt to find a cache was in an area I was very familiar with and I wasn't exactly expecting a real challenge. I spent over an hour looking for a cache that had been stolen, but really enjoyed the day and I became hooked. I think even if I'd found the cache in a few minutes I would still have had the same satisfaction and still be hooked. I'm now looking for another cache in Scotland, of which there aren't many. When I key in my local co-ordinates the nearest caches are over 60 miles away. I wouldn't say no to 1 or 2 (but maybe not 23) simple caches on my doorstep. My point is that I feel that part of geocaching is what you yourself make of it.

If you want a challenge, then go for a challenging cache. If you want a quick 'fix' then go for an easy cache. None of us are forced to visit his caches. If one of his 'easy' caches gets another person interested, then what's wrong with that. Hopefully that person will appreciate that there might be more fun in more remote caches and will go on to plant and find such ones.

Reading through the responses in this topic it seems that the majority of us agree that we don't want caches like Robin's littering the country, so lets just give them a bodyswerve.

As far as advertising, considering there aren't much more than 100 of us logged on to this site in the UK it's not exactly going to make him a millionaire overnight (unless he is already?). Going back to the Planet of the Apes thing, well even if all the 2000 or so geocachers that are logged onto this site worldwide went to see the film because of their attempts at cheap advertising, it wouldn't exactly make or break the movie.

One final point ('thank goodness') I hear you say). If Robin just wanted cheap advertising then he's probably got it through this discussion on the forum. If we just ignore it (him), who knows, it (he) might just go away.

[Guest timp]

Hi all,

 

A few points I don't understand.

 

Every cache Robin plants he says that he will only reply to e-mails sent to his Compuserve account because he does not have time to reply to e-mails sent via geocaching.com. The only difference between the two, as far as I can tell, is not time, but, he gets your e-mail address if you send via Conpuserve.

 

Each cache must cost at least £10 in materials (Tupperware container, camera etc). He has now placed 24 caches, thats a total of at least £240. Add to this the time (remember he has not got time to answer his e-mails) to go out and find locations to place them. All this just to circulate software to little more than 100 cachers ?

 

His browser software won't let him come to this forum because of a fault, but he has a laptop hooked up to a satellite phone so he must have at least two methods of getting on the internet.

 

It just does not add up.

 

There must be something we're missing!

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

[Guest Lozsing]

It seems to me these are clearly COMMERCIAL CACHES so they should'nt be even getting onto the system !!!!!!.

[Guest Monz]

OK... you all know my feelings by now

 

So I have invited the opinions of our US counterparts... see http://forums.Groundspeak.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001157.html

[Guest Monz]

OK... you all know my feelings by now

 

So I have invited the opinions of our US counterparts... see http://forums.Groundspeak.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001157.html

[Guest Beth]

So how many of you guys have actually found a Lovelock Geocache?

 

Might I suggest that you travel down here and try and find oneor two of them, look in side, and then make a judgement of whether they are commercial.

 

I have to say that yesterday I chatted with Moss Trooper and Monz thought they sounded like reasonable guys, and was quite happy to remain fairly neutral, however having had to waste a load of my time getting rid of the skull and crossbone icons that Monz saw fit to use to give everybody 'an informed decision', I really don't know why I bothered! Being informed would, I suggest, require actually having looked at what you are accusing of being commercial.

 

If you read the logs for Robin's caches you will see that people are finding them, and enjoying finding them. In a lot of cases they are newbie cachers who aren't looking for a great expedition, they go out for a stroll with their kids, and the kids have some 'treasure' to search for. I don't think anyone who has actually found one has been offended by these so-called 'commercial' caches.

 

Some caches are a challenge and take a lot of effort, others, like Robins are in local attractions like Virginia Water, Windsor Great Park, Henley, and are places that kids can go and have some fun searching for a treat. There is more than enough room in the UK for both sorts of caches without degenrating into the childishness that we have at the moment.

 

Perhaps Monz would like to reconsider joining the adult world like the rest of us and sort out the UK Garmin geocache file?

[Guest Moss Trooper]

Although I have not posted anything regarding Robin Lovelocks since my original post on Thursday Evening/Friday Morning. And a chat with Richard on ICQ Friday afternoon, suddenly I am unreasonable, for having a voice and willing to use it in defence of a hobby.

 

Don't be so hypocritical Richard. remember what you said to me on ICQ, I will not post it here but please, get on either one side of the fence or the other.. or even stand on it but quit jumping back and forth.

[Guest Monz]

Please try not to get personal Richard after all this is a debate and we are all adults... aren't we.

 

With regard to the mapsource file, that is actually a copy of my personal file that I made available to all geocachers to save them having to spend hours inputting the waypoints like I have to. The easy solution to this problem is for you to do your own file and stop downloading mine... QED

 

Please ensure your ensuing posts don't overstep the mark with regard to getting personal.

[Guest Beth]

My apologies to you guys, at the point I wrote that I was decidedly pissed off with having to waste my time fixing the file before loading it into my Vista. I fully accept that what I said above was overly personal and uncalled for. I apologise for that.

 

However can I make the point that the choice of icon to use might have been better, and less likely to annoy people who use your file but do not share your opinions?

 

As I said to both of you, as will be bourne out by the logs I share the worry that there are too many, however having talked to Robin, he has explained his reasons for hiding so many so quickly, with which I am happy. You will also note that he has taken on board your criticisms as well.

 

As you two know there were a number of geocachers that met up on Friday night, and having talked about it, those of us who have done Robins caches have enjoyed finding them, as have others, and do not think they were comemrcial.

 

Richard

[Guest Monz]

Apology accepted...

 

However, I make no apology for my opinions or how the file is. Please try to understand... I am doing you a favour by providing the file in the first place and I find your comment about you, Quote "having to waste time fixing the file" very infuriating!!! The file is not 'broken' it is simply how it is on my own PC and I refuse to rework it so as to be less "offensive".

 

Furthermore, I am considering not making it freely available and just posting it to people that I know appreciate it. We will see.

 

[This message has been edited by Monz (edited 14 October 2001).]

[Guest Beth]

As the file is yours, and made available on your web page then I agree it is up to you what you provide. Whilst I don't like the current file I have to say that the previous versions were incredibly useful, and I want to take this opportunity to publicly thank you for having taken the time and trouble to provide the service to UK geocachers.

 

The reason I made the request was because in your position as moderator of this forum, you hold a visible position of responsibility as a leader of the UK Geocachers, and new geocachers will see you in the same light.

 

As such I was asking you to respect the fact that others in the UK geocaching community, who you do not share your opinion, and alter the file to allow others in the UK geocaching community who do not share your opinion to use the file.

 

If as you have said you feel unable to do that that is entirely fair, and I respect your decision. Also if you feel you are unable to continue to make your waypoint files available, this again is your choice. I am sorry that you feel unable to continue your worthwhile service to the UK geocaching community in a way that accomodates the differing opinions within that community.

 

Richard

[Guest Kimrobin]

about it.

---

 

I don't recall receiving an invite to the meeting. Surely if a concensus was being sought, then everyone should have had the chance to be heard?

 

Alex.

[Guest Beth]

We didn't meet purely to discuss this topic, it was just a get together of a number of geocachers around the local area that had been planned a while before, in light of what had appeared on this forum that morning, and what had been said during the day it was enevitable that it was a big topic of conversation!

 

Just drinking, eating, chatting, and avoiding falling in the fish pond looking for Doomslayers Fish and Coffee Cache!

 

Richard

[Guest f-stop]

I have read with interest the thoughts and opinions of all who have posted on this subject and would like to add my tuppenceworth.

I believe that Mr Lovelock has an ulterior motive for planting so many caches and that the inclusion of his software is just a means to an end.

Cast your minds back to 6th October when David Beckham scored THAT goal.....all the media hype was about him and how HE had got us to through to the World cup finals. Soon forgotten then, was the heroics of the Michael Owen hat-trick against Germany little over a month ago.

I reckon that a similar thing will happen when the T.V companies inevitably take an interest in our sport, and that due to the quantity of caches planted by Mr Lovelock, he will be seen as the "Authority on Geocaching". It will be through this media that the real advertising of his software will occur!

The real Pioneers i.e Moss Trooper and JasonW, who have been involved for some considerable time will, I fear, be overlooked by the TV people. Time will tell!

[Guest jeremy]

I haven't been outspoken about this, and I apologize for not getting into this sooner.

 

Here's my problem. He seems to be overtly following the rules on these caches, so it is hard for me to put the foot down, so to speak, on his caches. I perfectly understand covertly he is using the sport to promote his software (and he's been constantly contacting my partner about doing "stuff" with geocaching. Not sure what that means). However, since he is basically working a loophole here it is hard for me to crack down on it.

 

So what do I do? Sure, I can shut down all his caches, but they are rated pretty low. And as I've said before, scoring how many caches you find isn't really in the rules. Any ideas? Understandibly this is a heated issue.

 

Shall we have a vote?

 

Jeremy

[Guest Cacher Jane8276]

From a homesick Brit in San Diego. I like his caches as the photo's and pubs remind me of home! He is not actually selling anything directly yet. Perhaps you could just ask him to post a warning that the caches are of a semi commercial nature or ask him not to advertise his website directly from the geocache site.

[Guest Lozsing]

I would say the biggest concern is where does it all stop. What if another person comes and starts flooding the place with the same type of caches . I think what he is doing is against the spirt of the sport.

[Guest The Northumbrian]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lozsing:

I would say the biggest concern is where does it all stop. What if another person comes and starts flooding the place with the same type of caches . I think what he is doing is against the spirt of the sport.

---

 

I VOTE FOR ARCHIVING EVERY ONE of his caches

and all others he may plant that have a commercial side to them, and if that does not stop him ,REMOVE him from geocaching.com

ANY OTHERS CARE TO VOTE?

 

------------------

The Northumbrian

[Guest Mopar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Northumbrian:

I VOTE FOR ARCHIVING EVERY ONE of his caches

and all others he may plant that have a commercial side to them, and if that does not stop him ,REMOVE him from geocaching.com

ANY OTHERS CARE TO VOTE?

---

 

How about a few comments from the other side of the pond?

 

1. Relocate all his caches to www.letterboxing.uk since it seems that they are all totally impossible to do with a GPS (his last few) or quite possible to do without a GPS just using the clues/pictures (all the rest).

 

2. Move all his listings to the new www.geotravel.com website, under the special heading of "Touring Southern England on 30 Pints Or Less" since just about all his caches seem to either start or end at the local pub.

[Guest Mopar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Northumbrian:

I VOTE FOR ARCHIVING EVERY ONE of his caches

and all others he may plant that have a commercial side to them, and if that does not stop him ,REMOVE him from geocaching.com

ANY OTHERS CARE TO VOTE?

---

 

How about a few comments from the other side of the pond?

 

1. Relocate all his caches to www.letterboxing.uk since it seems that they are all totally impossible to do with a GPS (his last few) or quite possible to do without a GPS just using the clues/pictures (all the rest).

 

2. Move all his listings to the new www.geotravel.com website, under the special heading of "Touring Southern England on 30 Pints Or Less" since just about all his caches seem to either start or end at the local pub.

[Guest Monz]

He is not really a he as such - He is actually a company... when you click on the cachers website link you are taken to the GPSS site... he states plainly on all his caches that to get in touch with him you have to contact the company. The caches all have the companies software in them and he places the said software in the caches he visits (maybe thats why he logs visits to his own caches as finds) so he can distribute some more dross in case someone took one as a beer mat.

 

Do we really need me to specify on which side of the fence I sit

[Guest BumbleBee]

My vote says his caches should be removed.

 

------------------

 

-Emma-

[Guest Moss Trooper]

Well.. I was the first to speakout I think. He demeans the work of other cacher's long thought out caches. His total disregard for the Geocaching website, i.e. email me at GPSS if you want a reply.!!

 

I say out. I know which side the fence I am on.. both.. and neither like it.!!! Geordie speak.. no where is safe..

 

Moss de Boss. he de man!!

 

All in favour say Aye! All those agin say Na!

 

[This message has been edited by Moss Trooper (edited 29 October 2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by Moss Trooper (edited 29 October 2001).]

[Guest Lozsing]

well i vote that they should all go as a lesson to other commercial caches that will probably appear in the future .

 

[This message has been edited by Lozsing (edited 30 October 2001).]

[Guest Kimrobin]

They are commercial caches.

 

They should be pulled.

[Guest timp]

Robin's first log entry at "The Queens Oak" (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=3043)says

 

"for my own business rather than hobby reasons."

 

and

 

"What a great hobby - if only we had time for it".

 

Surely that alone says it all ! There are obviously many other points.

 

For example, in Robins reply to the forum (http://forums.Groundspeak.com/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000118.html) he just has to mention his website URL no less than 8 times.

 

Come on Robin, be a gentleman and call it a day.

 

We say, archive his caches.

 

Tim & June (Winchester)

[Guest f-stop]

In my opinion the caches should be either:

a) Archived or

The cache owner should be made to remove every single reference to his business/business website from Geocaching.com.

However, I don't believe the second option will stop Mr Lovelock from using the sport to further his business. See quote:

 

"On 13 September there was a conference 'phone call between myself Robin, Jeremy Irish and Bryan Roth of Grounded Inc. who own and maintain the geocaching.com web site. Contact had also been made with Dan Foster, founder of TopoGrafix, the software company behind EasyGPS, ExpertGPS, and PanTerra. There seems excellent scope for future collaboration between Grounded, Topografix and Sunninghill.

 

The software described below under "GPSS Geocaching Software" enables EasyGPS downloads from geocaching.com to be converted into the simpler format used within GPSS. In the long term it is possible that changes are made to geocaching.com and/or GPSS to provide a more elegant and "neater" solution." this is a quote from the website, isn't this conclusive enough of Mr Lovelocks intentions.

[Guest theGophers]

I have been following this "discussion" for some time now and I must admit as it is so far away from our excellent peak district, Snowdonia national Park and lake district that I have paid little or no interest. I have been of the opinion as what they do down there is up to them and wont harm us.

 

But then... If these kind and quantity of caches arrived in our unspoilt national parks then I am sure that the national trust and parks commissions would begin to see it as trashing the countryside rather than caching it. I would not want to start seeing the quantity so close together up here as is happening down there as I believe it will get out of hand and be stopped officially.

 

Therefore for what its worth I would plead with the people in charge of allowing new cache sites onto the system to be a bit more selective when allowing so many of them within such a confined area.

 

I would like Robin and June to consider this when or if they place any more.

[Guest Groover]

I too have been following this discussion, and I just took a quick look at some of these caches.

It seems that they are being visited and people appear to be enjoying them however I object to the following:

 

1. Constant, unrelentless plugs for his web site and software, and the inclusion of his home phone number in the cache description. Obvious and blatent commercialism.

 

2. Logging your own caches - I think thats just not the done thing, and should be stopped.

 

3. Just look at the map of all the caches placed in England - it is very obvious whereabouts he lives! Perhaps there should be a limit on how many caches can be placed in a certain area, by the same person, in a certain timeframe?

 

View UK Map

 

Just my tuppence worth...

 

Andy

 

[This message has been edited by Groover (edited 30 October 2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by Groover (edited 30 October 2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by Groover (edited 30 October 2001).]

[Guest Yomper]

What ticks me off the most about this is that since this thread was started, Robin has planted another six or seven caches.

 

So even though he knew there were concerns about what he was dong, he still carried on. Much of an "up yours - I'm not bothered what you think" kind of attitude.

 

Anyway, his caches are commercial and I think they sould be pulled.

 

So far there have been no votes to have them retained.

 

Over to you Jeremy.

[Guest JasonW]

s resurrected - not because I was waiting to see how the wind blew - I already had my position established, but I'll recycle the bits that most closely echo my own thoughts on this matter

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lozsing:

well i vote that they should all go as a lesson to other commercial caches that will probably appear in the future .

---

 

Agree 100% there

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by timp:

Robin's first log entry at "The Queens Oak" (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=3043)says

 

"for my own business rather than hobby reasons."

---

 

For that alone they should go the journey

 

quote:

---

and

 

"What a great hobby - if only we had time for it".

---

 

Time to post 25 caches on your doorstep, but no time for it, seems an odd statement to make ??

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by theGophers:

But then... If these kind and quantity of caches arrived in our unspoilt national parks then I am sure that the national trust and parks commissions would begin to see it as trashing the countryside rather than caching it. I would not want to start seeing the quantity so close together up here as is happening down there as I believe it will get out of hand and be stopped officially.

---

 

This is what really scares me - that somebody goes over the top and wrecks it for every one of us.

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Groover:

.......however I object to the following:

 

1. Constant, unrelentless plugs for his web site and software, and the inclusion of his home phone number in the cache description. Obvious and blatent commercialism.

 

2. Logging your own caches - I think thats just not the done thing, and should be stopped.

 

3. Just look at the map of all the caches placed in England - it is very obvious whereabouts he lives! Perhaps there should be a limit on how many caches can be placed in a certain area, by the same person, in a certain timeframe?

---

 

Yup, so lets just call Surrey County Council's Enviromental Services Department (or whatever they call the binmen these days), give them a GPS and a list of waypoints and they can get on with removing the trash.

[Guest Scottworld]

Actually...they are in Berkshire !

Not in Surrey.

 

Just to stir you all up even further !.

[Guest JasonW]

Where they are isn't the problem - it's the sheer number of them.

[Guest Yomper]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JasonW:

Where they are isn't the problem - it's the sheer number of them.

---

 

And there goes another one.

 

There are now 40 caches in a 20 mile radius.

 

After the discussion this week he is taking the piss.

 

Jerermy, you wanted a vote. You got one. There wasn't a single person who said these caches should stay.

 

Take action.

[Guest rediguana]

Just found this thread - I'm a Kiwi (and not in the UK LOL!)

 

After having a look at some of the issues here, I'd have to say.

 

Give Robin a warning, and place conditions on his cache pages. I don't have a problem with him putting free copies of software in his caches. The problem comes with; cachers web link on the cache page (directly to GPS related business), multiple links on cache description pages (a link to a map, places you on a huge download page you have to scroll halfway down to find - past links to GPS software prices, and the little bit about his contact details. He should have to remove all links to his GPSS site, and remove the little trailer about contacting him through his compuserve email. If he doesn't reply through a geocaching.com message - his tough luck. Also he should not be allowed to mention he is in GPS industry on his cache pages. If he wants to host geocaching stuff separate from his business he can get a personal domain - of course he is still entitled to link to GPSS from there. It is just less obvious than going directly to the GPSS domain - which is what he wants.

 

If he doesn't change the cache pages within a week, then delete them.

 

I don't know if the is the first major case of commercialism in caches, but this is the biggest I've seen yet.

 

To quote Star Wars TPM "Wipe them out, all of them!" - commercial caches that is

 

Cheers Gav