Are our Geocaches too Easy?

[Guest Nemesis]

Hi all!

 

Hunter1nz suggested that we should put out a few really difficult stashes to keep the more hardened geocachers happy.

 

I think it's a good idea, but what can we do to make it geocaching harder?

 

Well, we could place the stash in really difficult terrain and/or in places where GPS reception (and hence accuracy) is really poor. I have done both with my Deer Flat stash near Milford.

 

We could randomly alter the coordinates of the stash by 30 m or so (while also adding 30 m to the stated accuracy in our stash reports).

 

We could also use deception, that is the cache would not be where you would usually expect (I have a few ideas, but can't give them away here).

 

We could give less detail in our stash reports (that is, move most of the detail to the hints), I have started doing this. Publishing only the coordinates is the logical conclusion of this (but a bit boring).

 

What does everyone else think? Do you have any other ideas?

 

Cheers,

Donovan Govan.

[Guest peejay]

Havent had the pleasure of actually looking for a stash yet, only placing them so I dont know how hard they are to find. I think the sport will evolve away from what we see in the USA (have you ever come across so many people worried about petty regulations!) because of our access to the real wide open spaces, not silly little parks where you cant burp without a permit.

I can see geocaching here covering the spectrum from urban caches in someones letterbox to eagle-in-the-sky caches in our beautiful remote ranges.

Now, could someone please set a cache up here in the North so I could try finding one ? :-)

Pat

[Guest rediguana]

Evening All. Back again after a few days doing assignments and studying.

 

Where are these hardened geocachers? Don't we just need more geocachers? Shouldn't we be trying to get more people caching rather than making the caches harder?

 

I think the focus should be on making a cache harder to get to, not harder to find.

 

Four of the caches really stand out in my mind out of the ones I have found so far. The Chch Port Hills Cabbage Tree was my first. The Browns stream one was great because I was wandering around with a torch in the cold and dark for half an hour trying to find it - that has been my most satisfying yet. The Flagstaff cache was fun because it entailed a reasonable hike and a fantastic view, as did the Sharks Tooth in Kaikoura.

 

What I'm leading you towards is - I think more focus should be placed on getting to the cache than actually finding the cache. It should require a bit of preparation and planning. This is what I intend to do when I place my first cache - this week I hope. I'm thinking of forcing a couple of long hikes maybe 1.5/2 hrs each way on people if they want to find the cache - conversely the reward has to be worthwhile, you should see some lovely scenery along the way. This I guess is my main point - I think that the journey is more important.

 

I like the idea of having very little information in the cache page, as having a few tips can make it much much easier. I support moving more of the tips into encrypted hints.

 

Of course other methods may include multi-cache or offset cache setups. Perhaps breaking a code on an offset cache survivor style. Hiding caches up trees, on ropes or something similar. After my Browns Stream experience, I'm tempted to do a cache that can only be found at night, possibly in conjunction with something reflective or efforesent. Or something that involves teamwork - not sure how but I'm thinking.

 

Those are my thoughts for now Hope they're constructive. I guess we'll be able to try out some of our theories soon enough - hehe.

 

Cheers Gavin

[Guest rediguana]

As an aside, what techniques do people use when nearing the cache?

 

Personally I tend to use a GPS and magnetic compass, try to get about 20m away from the coords in three directions and take 3 readings and triangulate. Of course tips on the cache page can help as well, such as identifying the plant its in/under etc.

 

That helps narrow it down greatly, and remove some of the GPS error. At this point it comes down to thinking - hmm now where would I hide it here

 

Cheers Gavin

[Guest Nemesis]

quote:

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Originally posted by rediguana:

...Back again after a few days doing assignments and studying....Shouldn't we be trying to get more people caching rather than making the caches harder?...I think more focus should be placed on getting to the cache than actually finding [it]....After my Browns Stream experience, I'm tempted to do a cache that can only be found at night.

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Glad to have you back. BTW, what are you studying?

 

I agree that we should be placing a whole heap of stashes everywhere possible to encorouge newcomers. However, it would be nice to have a couple of really hairy ones to keep us on our toes.

 

Yes, for me, actually finding a stash is not as important as the route you have to take to get there. I try to place stashes in interesting areas (most of the time).

 

One problem with placing stashes two hours walk from anywhere is that they are difficult to maintain. That is provided you think that you will need to maintain your stash often. I think whenever you are passing by would be often enough, visiting every year or two would be OK for really remote stashes (in my opinion).

 

Night caching, what a great idea! It seems that my Brown's Stream stash was ideally suited to being found at night.

 

Regards,

Donovan Govan.

[Guest rediguana]

HR>Well, I have been thinking about this and carried out a simple experiment to test some of my theories.

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Simple ehh? Well it looks like fine sandpaper is the way to go, I better have a play sometime this weekend

 

Cheers and thanks for the research, Gavin

[Guest Nemesis]

quote:

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Originally posted by rediguana:

Im finishing off a BSc at Canty (have already collected a BCom) and I'm doing a graduate diploma in emergency services mgt from Massey at the same time. Its been keeping me rather busy.

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I'm not surprised! What is your major for your BSc?

 

I too am a poor student. I have a BSc majoring in both Computer Science and Psychology, a MSc in Cognitive Science (don't ask ), and a DipGrad in Electronics and Computer Science. I have completed three years of my PhD in Psychology (I will finish it next year), meanwhile I'm having a break from the PhD for a year by doing a MSc in Electronics. Oh yeah, I got my Private Pilots' Licence (Fixed Wing) last year.

 

quote:

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Originally posted byrediguana:

...it was a blast stumbling around in the dark, twas a little spooky actually, but definitely was cool.

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Sounds like fun! In the states some people are so keen to find stashes that they go out at night (this is becoming quite popular over there).

 

Cheers,

Donovan Govan.

[Guest rediguana]

quote:

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I'm not surprised! What is your major for your BSc?

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Well, I completed two majors under my BCom, Management Science, and Information Systems. If I had the balls I would actually have completed a major in Computer Science too, I only have 2 stage 3 papers to go, but I just couldn't push myself to do it

 

I'm doing stage I geology and astrophysics this year to finish the BSc, and then Management Science gets transferred to the BSc major. Kinda messy really hehe.

 

And I thought I was bad when it came to being a perpetual student Although I am now starting to think about doing a PostGrad Dip in Engineering Geology to round out my study in Risk and Emergency Mgt.

 

What are your plans when you finish studying? If you finish? Hehe

 

Cheers Gavin

[Guest Nemesis]

quote:

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Originally posted by rediguana:

If I had the balls I would actually have completed a major in Computer Science too...

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I know what you mean, It's not for the faint hearted.

 

quote:

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I'm doing stage I geology and astrophysics this year to finish the BSc...

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Sounds interesting, a bit of everything.

 

quote:

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What are your plans when you finish studying? If you finish?

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Well, I wouldn't mind working in electronics in some way, but that would be a waste of my qualifications. I will probably go to the states for a couple of years and do a some post doctoral research, then I hope I can come back and get tenured position a NZ university.

 

Cheers,

Donovan Govan.

[Guest tgsnoopy]

Geese, U guys make my head spin. U must have rich parent's or one hell of a student loan!

 

One thing I was a bit concerned about, is the planting of night caches. Be careful that when planting them people can get out of there safely and easily. Also of utmost importance is that they will be able to negotiate the terrain safely in the dark.

 

Trying to find a cache at nightime is something you will need to be careful with promoting. Remember the cache planter has to be ultimately responsible for it.

 

It is an unfortunate fact that most accidents in the bush occur around dusk or at night, dusk being worse as people push the envelope trying to get out before it gets completely dark.

 

I'm not saying don't do it, but please consider the situation you might put people in, and take neccessary precautions to prevent such risks. Perhaps lots of reflectors marking the track out, and notes on the website as to how long their torches will need to hold out for them to get out again. Not everyone carries a Tika* in their pack!

 

*Tika, a light by Petzel, runs on 3xAAA Alkaline batteries for up to 150 hours! Approx 20 hours of very usefull light for tramping out, at about 120 hours still useful for reading. Cost approx $95.00 incl. GST. I reccomend everyone carry one in their pack for emergencies.

[Guest Nemesis]

quote:

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Originally posted by tgsnoopy:

...U must have rich parent's or one hell of a student loan!

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LOL, I have one hell of a student loan. It's now $80,000 and growing fast.

 

quote:

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...I was a bit concerned about...night caches.

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People need to use their common sense here, as always, ensure that you are properly prepared for each cache hunt. I agree that we should include adequate warnings in our cache reports.

 

Cheers,

Donovan.

[Guest rediguana]

especially with natural hazards. I'm going up to Wellington on Monday for a seminar on GIS and the World Trade Centre attack, should be quite an interesting talk.

 

Cheers Gavin

[Guest BaldEd]

Hi Gavin,

Sorry to cross post but I live at Kaiapoi and would like to contact you re GPS purchase but I don't have your email address.

Eddie

[Guest rediguana]

quote:

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Originally posted by BaldEd:

but I don't have your email address.

Eddie

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You do now

 

Cheers Gav

[Guest Nemesis]

quote:

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Originally posted by peejay:

Havent had the pleasure of actually looking for a stash yet....I think the sport will evolve away from what we see in the USA (have you ever come across so many people worried about petty regulations!)....could someone please set a cache up here in the North...

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I think DOC is a bit more laid back than the National Park Service (NPS) in the US.

 

But, even so, we should avoid placing stashes where envoronmental damage will occur, we should take steps to minimise it at least. I can't see why DOC would worry if we do no more damage than the non-geocachers.

 

That said, I hesitate asking permission before placing a stash in a national park (or other DOC land) because the answer would probably be no.

 

For example, the rules for the use of Fiordland National Park state that you must keep to the tracks and not leave any litter. If DOC stuck strictly to the rules (as they do in the states), the stash would be litter that you needed to leave the track to find, hence illigal.

 

Maybe DOC will eventually develop a position on geocaching (I hope they support it). I will wait 'till then.

 

Next time I am up around Whangarei I will place a stash for you to find, but it might be some time (it's been 18 years so far ). I hope others start geocaching up your way soon .

 

Cheers,

Donovan Govan.

[evilC]

The Geometry of Owhango style of cache is a suggestion I'll put forward for others to consider. It provides a bit more difficulty plus forces the hunter to check out at least a few other "interesting" locations first. Probably well suited to urban locations that might otherwise be a little be a little boring if it was just a "go to point X" style of cache.

 

One thing I'm not sure about though is how this kind of cache works out with non etrex (Garmin?) units. Seems like some might not give distance with any degree of accuracy unless you are really close to the reference point. Even my etrex starts rounding distances rather sooner than I would like.

 

Anyway, in general I like the idea of a cache that requires some novel use of the GPSR or has some challenging navigational aspect.

 

I totally agree with the earlier replies (made some time ago!) by Gav and Donovan about the journey being perhaps more important than the search at the end. I guess I just want to play with my GPSR! Searching for a well hidden cache after arriving at the location is fun up to a point, but possibly discouraging if you can't find it or that is the main difficulty.

 

I well remember my first hunt which was a failure because the cache had been plundered as it turned out. Of course we didn't know that at the time and spent a very frustrating time mucking through rotting wet foliage, etc., determined to find something...

 

[This message was edited by evilC on May 09, 2002 at 04:07 AM.]

[+BigNick]

Have a look at Nandors "Tricky" series of caches. The first 3 were quite easy, but after 4 days of on and off code breaking I am still no closer to "Tricky4" - easy this is not!

Cheers

Nick.

[+tgsnoopy]

Nice one BaldEd, Looks good, I will have to attempt that when I visit Christchurch some time in Winter. Question though, will I need a car to get to the final cache, I'm not intending on hiring one if I can help it!

[+BigNick]

quote:

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Originally posted by tgsnoopy:

Nice one BaldEd, Looks good, I will have to attempt that when I visit Christchurch some time in Winter. Question though, will I need a car to get to the final cache, I'm not intending on hiring one if I can help it!

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It is a great cache, but you probably would want a car to get to the final cache location. If you wanted to hookup I could give you transport to some of the local Chch caches.

Nick

[+tgsnoopy]

Hmm, I'm assuming Port Hills now. B careful I might take U up on that offer. I C that no1 has yet solved the clues. Still the trip is still a couple of months off yet. I hope this cache's clues etc aren't as "Evil"* as Mission: Impossible.

 

* Quotation by a visiting USA based Geocacher upon demonstration of how to decode the Matrix.

[+BigNick]

quote:

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Originally posted by tgsnoopy:

Hmm, I'm assuming Port Hills now.

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Now I couldn't possibly comment on that

Cheers

Nick.